2c-b-fly / 2c-b-dfly

[illuminati boy]

Acute or chronic short-term memory effects? This difference between the two is not trivial.

I B

 

[B9]

Explain the difference and i'll tell you.
zophen.

 

[Sir_Twist]

Acute effects are felt directly or shortly after the use of the drug but diminishes over time. Chronic effects are lasting indefinately.

 

[nanobrain]

^please describe further the short term memory problems.

i have noted some word recall issues - ie for the first time i actually have to "look" for words - but attributed them to the lack of MDPV and decreased piracetam intake rather than to 2C-B-FLY.

are you talking post-CB-FLY and if so, how long after and how long does it last? what are your dose regimens and frequency of admin? what else in the mix?

cheers,

nano

 

[B9]

Post fly, and it is acute not chronic, the odd thing though is that i've done a few RCs' and sometimes feel a little vague but this really was obvious, it appears to be waning now though. Only two ingestions 7 days apart and both of us noted this especially after ingestion 2, (20mg) though it was clearly present after ingestion one(12.5mg). Your description of word recall fits exactly with our experiences, very frustrating.
zophen.

 

[specialspack]

Man i'm sorry but what bullshit!

Can't tell the difference between them?

Why make all of them?

I'm sure it may vary between SOME people, but not most...

specialspack, how many different psychedelics have you tried yourself?



Oh really? ok fine fine, double blind test, but have you read many trip reports? why are they often so so similar for a given substance, and what makes any of you think the 5ht2a receptor is just some .. simple "on/off" switch??

I'd think most of you would know way more than me about the structure of just this receptor alone, but i know an "agonist" doesn't just mean "on/off" like some simple light switch!

Even if you blocked every receptor BUT 5ht2a i am so positive DMT would still do what DMT does, and most psychedelics would do *most* of what they do without even touching other receptors (maybe potency differences and other minor things related to the other receptors like 1a 2c etc).

I'm curious how often some of you do trip, and on what variety of substances, and what you typically do on a 'trip'? Do you ever sit and think or look/read about all this stuff while tripping? Look at a picture of a computer generated 5ht2a receptor and any info you can about it, trippin' BALLZ and just.. think about it..

just wondering..

%)

later later

Look... what is the most important componant of psychedelic experience? Set & setting. Do I really need to argue for the power of the placebo effect on this forum?

Oh really? ok fine fine, double blind test, but have you read many trip reports? why are they often so so similar for a given substance,

Why do you think? Could it be because people read trip reports and then their expectations are set?

As Bilz0r says, some people are probablt good at telling the difference between different drugs. Sometimes the clues are obvious - duration, excess nausea, the difference between tryptamines & PEAs etc. I'd even say I was pretty good at telling apart the drugs that I've sampled before. But I don't doubt that my confidence would be misplaced in a blind taste test, or even worse when taking a substance that was misrepresented, when dealing with a group of similar drugs (eg 2C-x).

For the record, I have never tried any of the DOx series. But I have done plenty of other psychedelics, and I know that one experience varies to the next on the same drug, due to set & setting.

And do I need to remind you of the incident of the DOC contaminated with 2C-I that everyone was raving about, and just couldn't believe was contaminated because they thought they KNEW what 2C-I was like?

I'm sure that there are differences between the DOx series, but until someone does a proper double blind test, then I remain skeptical that these differences influence an experience by an order of magnitude greater than:
a) individual brain chemistry
b) expectation of the effects

ie - set & setting.

I'm sure it seems to many of you that you can tell the difference between them. There is, however, a huge body of experimental work that shows just how often people are wrong when they ascribe certain beliefs etc to themselves (Rensink's work on attentional blindness, Libet's on the illusion of conscious control of action... etc etc)

 

[Morninggloryseed]

In addition to the DOC/2C-I example, I know of examples where people very familiar with LSD took DOB, and believed it to be LSD without hesitation. So even seasoned voyagers can be fooled.

Look... what is the most important componant of psychedelic experience? Set & setting. Do I really need to argue for the power of the placebo effect on this forum?



Why do you think? Could it be because people read trip reports and then their expectations are set?

As Bilz0r says, some people are probablt good at telling the difference between different drugs. Sometimes the clues are obvious - duration, excess nausea, the difference between tryptamines & PEAs etc. I'd even say I was pretty good at telling apart the drugs that I've sampled before. But I don't doubt that my confidence would be misplaced in a blind taste test, or even worse when taking a substance that was misrepresented, when dealing with a group of similar drugs (eg 2C-x).

For the record, I have never tried any of the DOx series. But I have done plenty of other psychedelics, and I know that one experience varies to the next on the same drug, due to set & setting.

And do I need to remind you of the incident of the DOC contaminated with 2C-I that everyone was raving about, and just couldn't believe was contaminated because they thought they KNEW what 2C-I was like?

I'm sure that there are differences between the DOx series, but until someone does a proper double blind test, then I remain skeptical that these differences influence an experience by an order of magnitude greater than:
a) individual brain chemistry
b) expectation of the effects

ie - set & setting.

I'm sure it seems to many of you that you can tell the difference between them. There is, however, a huge body of experimental work that shows just how often people are wrong when they ascribe certain beliefs etc to themselves (Rensink's work on attentional blindness, Libet's on the illusion of conscious control of action... etc etc)

 

[Ximot]

just a thought on the perceived differences of typtamines or phenethylamines... as I have always liked my drink I can vouch for the fact that, even though the various alcoholic beverages all contain ethyl-alcohol, they tend to have different buzzes. As psychedelics all make you "trip", all alcoholic drinks will get you "drunk" -- but the beer buzz is very different from the red wine buzz. White whine is a different story altogether. And champagne. Tequila is different from gin. Vodka again has a different vibe. It's true!
I can only speculate about the reasons ... of course the key ingredient in all those is the same chemical - alcohol - but maybe the alcohol in combination with all the co-factors in the drink also bind to receptors in different ways? Or maybe it's just the body that's affected differebntly - and we all know how body affects mind...

Kinda unrelated, this, maybe, but your discussion above reminded me and I think it is somehow the same sort of thing.

 

[Morninggloryseed]

just a thought on the perceived differences of typtamines or phenethylamines... as I have always liked my drink I can vouch for the fact that, even though the various alcoholic beverages all contain ethyl-alcohol, they tend to have different buzzes. As psychedelics all make you "trip", all alcoholic drinks will get you "drunk" -- but the beer buzz is very different from the red wine buzz. White whine is a different story altogether. And champagne. Tequila is different from gin. Vodka again has a different vibe. It's true!
I can only speculate about the reasons ... of course the key ingredient in all those is the same chemical - alcohol - but maybe the alcohol in combination with all the co-factors in the drink also bind to receptors in different ways? Or maybe it's just the body that's affected differebntly - and we all know how body affects mind...

Kinda unrelated, this, maybe, but your discussion above reminded me and I think it is somehow the same sort of thing.

Beer is made with hops. Hops are coated in a yellowish resin (much as pot buds are) called lupulin, which has a high methylbutenol content, a mild sedative effect on the central nervous system.

As for wine vs hard-liquor, it has to do with absorbtion rates. Just as with psychedelics, the rate in which EtOH is absorbed changes the nature of the high. Just think of injected ketamine vs snorted or oral. Or smoked DMT vs oral. Wine is said to contain trace amounts of GHB, but the amounts present are likely too small to have any effect.

 

[nanobrain]

semantics. y'all are yanking the chain on and on about subjective ability to estimate the specificity of administered receptor probes. too many confounds - like metabolic, cognitive, perceptual, genetic and environmental differences.

to illustrate, aint no point trying to run 64 bit soft on a Pentium 3 comp.

 

[fastandbulbous]

Just a quick report to say that 2C-B fly is extremely good at enhancing memory recall of the dissociative experience (IM ketamine). I'd read that 2C-B was very good for that, but I've never had the opportunity to try 2C-B so when I was given a small amount of 2C-B fly by a friend, I was very curious as to it's ability to enhance recall of the dissociative state. It works really well!

It's also very enjoyable (not that we're interested in such shallow persuits! )