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yea but this was in the middle of the hand... i think it was allowed because they were heads up
 
like i said: "i don't think it's against the rules to show your cards"

:)

alasdair
 
Another etiquette question:

Live game. I'm out of the hand. I make a comment about what another player is holding. I'm guessing (obviously). Afterwards, he tells me off for giving away his hand and costing him some winnings.

Was I in the wrong? I think it would have been OK if I'd been involved in the hand - trying to work out what he's holding from his reaction to my comments, a la Dan Negreanu. But given that I was out of the hand, was it a breach of etiquette?

(We play a fairly casual game, low stakes, lots of breaks for people to smoke dope, lots of weird-ass games that we invented ourselves).
 
It definantly would be OK if you were in the hand. I am not sure about if you have folded though. I used to do stuff like this a lot when I first started playing but I realized that a lot of people get upset by it. Now I just think about it in my head. Plus if you start getting real good at reading people you do not want the other players to know you have this ability.
 
the intimidation factor wouldn't be too offset by their knowledge of your newfound skill

but even though it was a casual game you had nothing to lose by calling out their hands while they did, so i would say that it isn't "proper etiquettte"
 
Sim0n said:
Another etiquette question:

Live game. I'm out of the hand. I make a comment about what another player is holding. I'm guessing (obviously). Afterwards, he tells me off for giving away his hand and costing him some winnings.

Was I in the wrong? I think it would have been OK if I'd been involved in the hand - trying to work out what he's holding from his reaction to my comments, a la Dan Negreanu. But given that I was out of the hand, was it a breach of etiquette?
Click to expand...
i'd say it was a breach of basic etiquette - if you're not in the hand, don't discuss it at the table at all.

alasdair
 
i agree completely... if you not in the hand don't make on comments on it. think about the last ws when madeso and the shiek got in to it. for me this also includes after the flop (at house games) going into the muck to look at cards you folded because obviously you got a peice of the flop.


as for daniel negreanu calling out hands you'll notice it is NEVER when he's not in the hand. also i can not ever remember when he does when he is not heads up. it is very poor form to walk through a hand when there is two or three other people in the hand.
 
I have been on a pretty bad downswing the last couple of weeks but this turned around with a session tonite. I want to thank mehm for bringing up the idea of playing even though he didn't sit down and shred Stars 50NL with me.

Some memorable hands from the 150 hand session.


POKERSTARS GAME #7674791162: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/30 - 03:30:15 (ET)
Table 'Discovery' 9-max Seat #9 is the button
Seat 1: dollar79 ($115.60 in chips)
Seat 2: thizzSC ($46.25 in chips)
Seat 3: convariance ($66.10 in chips)
Seat 4: junkiesue ($77.50 in chips)
Seat 5: tommyboy4747 ($24.40 in chips)
Seat 6: craftypool ($43.85 in chips)
Seat 7: eyesonly003 ($50.75 in chips)
Seat 8: pasalon ($26.50 in chips)
Seat 9: muckrd19 ($21.85 in chips)
dollar79: posts small blind $0.25
thizzSC: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thizzSC [Kc Kh]
convariance: folds
convariance leaves the table
junkiesue: raises $1 to $1.50
tommyboy4747: folds
craftypool: folds
eyesonly003: folds
pasalon: folds
muckrd19: folds
dollar79: folds
thizzSC: raises $4 to $5.50
junkiesue: raises $4 to $9.50
thizzSC: raises $36.75 to $46.25 and is all-in
junkiesue: calls $36.75
*** FLOP *** [9d 5h Ah]
*** TURN *** [9d 5h Ah] [4s]
*** RIVER *** [9d 5h Ah 4s] [5c]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
thizzSC: shows [Kc Kh] (two pair, Kings and Fives)
junkiesue: mucks hand
thizzSC collected $89.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $92.75 | Rake $3
Board [9d 5h Ah 4s 5c]
Seat 1: dollar79 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 2: thizzSC (big blind) showed [Kc Kh] and won ($89.75) with two pair, Kings and Fives
Seat 3: convariance folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 4: junkiesue mucked [Js Jd]
Seat 5: tommyboy4747 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 6: craftypool folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: eyesonly003 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: pasalon folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: muckrd19 (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)

POKERSTARS GAME #7674903356: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/30 - 03:45:05 (ET)
Table 'Iva V' 9-max Seat #3 is the button
Seat 1: averoes ($65.10 in chips)
Seat 2: luke1403 ($60.55 in chips)
Seat 3: thizzSC ($52.05 in chips)
Seat 5: Playmaker66 ($20.15 in chips)
Seat 6: will tilt ($48.50 in chips)
Seat 7: theesherriff ($32 in chips)
Seat 8: WS6Mark ($19.55 in chips)
Seat 9: BRAYS23 ($31 in chips)
Playmaker66: posts small blind $0.25
will tilt: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thizzSC [Qd Qh]
theesherriff: raises $0.50 to $1
WS6Mark: folds
BRAYS23: calls $1
averoes: calls $1
luke1403: folds
thizzSC: raises $4 to $5
Playmaker66: folds
will tilt: folds
theesherriff: raises $4 to $9
BRAYS23: folds
averoes: folds
thizzSC: calls $4
*** FLOP *** [7h 3c Qc]
danschu25 joins the table at seat #4
theesherriff: bets $2
thizzSC: raises $19 to $21
theesherriff: raises $2 to $23 and is all-in
thizzSC: calls $2
*** TURN *** [7h 3c Qc] [7s]
*** RIVER *** [7h 3c Qc 7s] [Td]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
theesherriff: shows [Kh Ah] (a pair of Sevens)
thizzSC: shows [Qd Qh] (a full house, Queens full of Sevens)
thizzSC collected $63.75 from pot
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $66.75 | Rake $3
Board [7h 3c Qc 7s Td]
Seat 1: averoes folded before Flop
Seat 2: luke1403 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 3: thizzSC (button) showed [Qd Qh] and won ($63.75) with a full house, Queens full of Sevens
Seat 5: Playmaker66 (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: will tilt (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: theesherriff showed [Kh Ah] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 8: WS6Mark folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 9: BRAYS23 folded before Flop

POKERSTARS GAME #7675299313: HOLD'EM NO LIMIT ($0.25/$0.50) - 2006/12/30 - 04:46:27 (ET)
Table 'Rosa IV' 9-max Seat #1 is the button
Seat 1: T_S_Venture ($45.65 in chips)
Seat 2: BruitdeFond ($28 in chips)
Seat 3: ghost beef ($63.85 in chips)
Seat 4: stacker99 ($12 in chips)
Seat 5: wildwest21 ($66.75 in chips)
Seat 6: tilted fish ($49.75 in chips)
Seat 7: youngtory ($70.15 in chips)
Seat 8: thizzSC ($59.90 in chips)
Seat 9: Toke$ter ($119.10 in chips)
BruitdeFond: posts small blind $0.25
ghost beef: posts big blind $0.50
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to thizzSC [Qd As]
stacker99: folds
wildwest21: raises $1.50 to $2
tilted fish: folds
youngtory: folds
thizzSC: raises $5 to $7
Toke$ter: folds
T_S_Venture: folds
BruitdeFond: folds
ghost beef: folds
wildwest21: calls $5
*** FLOP *** [9h 3c 6h]
wildwest21: bets $2
thizzSC: calls $2
*** TURN *** [9h 3c 6h] [Ts]
wildwest21: bets $2
thizzSC: raises $10 to $12
wildwest21: folds
thizzSC collected $21.70 from pot
thizzSC: doesn't show hand
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot $22.75 | Rake $1.05
Board [9h 3c 6h Ts]
Seat 1: T_S_Venture (button) folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 2: BruitdeFond (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 3: ghost beef (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 4: stacker99 folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 5: wildwest21 folded on the Turn
Seat 6: tilted fish folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 7: youngtory folded before Flop (didn't bet)
Seat 8: thizzSC collected ($21.70)
Seat 9: Toke$ter folded before Flop (didn't bet)
 
poker question

flop comes 9c, 2d, and 4d.

which hand would u prefer? ace of diamonds and a 3 of diamonds, or a 3 5 of diamonds?
 
A3, because I've got the nut flush draw. The only hand I have to fear is someone holding 36 hitting a 5 (not the 5D) to make a straight and counterfeit mine.

Any D hits: I win with the nut flush.
5 hits, I win with the straight unless someone has 36. In which case I punch them in the nuts for playing a hand like that.
Ace hits, I may have the best hand but I play cautiously.
Nothing hits, there's still a chance that my A high is good. I don't bet out unless I have a sure read that people will fold, but I might take the hand if everyone checks.

Whereas with 35, I have a better chance of hitting the straight, but I might hit the flush and still lose to someone playing Ax suited.

Love to hear what others think.
 
My own question:

What do you guys think about limping with monster hands? I always thought it was a dumb idea, but the last game I played I had separate players limp with KK and AA. The AA was especially strange as it was a short handed table (down to last 4, 3 get paid) and the blinds were quite high (it was basically me and this guy battling to make the money).

Does it make sense to you to limp in that situation? I'd have been pushing the money in and hoping to get a caller....(I had about 6x the BB and he had about 8 x BB. I limped in the blind with T(, hit the T on the flop and bet out, and of course AA held up).
 
it'll happen (limping with a monster), but if i'm in a relatively shitty spot, or under the gun i'll of course bump it up to push out unnecessary pplayers.
 
Sim0n said:
A3, because I've got the nut flush draw. The only hand I have to fear is someone holding 36 hitting a 5 (not the 5D) to make a straight and counterfeit mine.

Any D hits: I win with the nut flush.
5 hits, I win with the straight unless someone has 36. In which case I punch them in the nuts for playing a hand like that.
Ace hits, I may have the best hand but I play cautiously.
Nothing hits, there's still a chance that my A high is good. I don't bet out unless I have a sure read that people will fold, but I might take the hand if everyone checks.

Whereas with 35, I have a better chance of hitting the straight, but I might hit the flush and still lose to someone playing Ax suited.

Love to hear what others think.
Click to expand...

It depends on the number of people on the table. If it were a full table I'd take the A,3d. If it had dwindled down to five, I'll take an inside straight flush draw on the flop any day.
 
Sim0n said:
My own question:

What do you guys think about limping with monster hands? I always thought it was a dumb idea, but the last game I played I had separate players limp with KK and AA. The AA was especially strange as it was a short handed table (down to last 4, 3 get paid) and the blinds were quite high (it was basically me and this guy battling to make the money).

Does it make sense to you to limp in that situation? I'd have been pushing the money in and hoping to get a caller....(I had about 6x the BB and he had about 8 x BB. I limped in the blind with T(, hit the T on the flop and bet out, and of course AA held up).
Click to expand...

If it is early on in the game when people tend to play chip tight and not go out straight away I will raise it up a little more if I am completely out of position to avoid scaring people from not parting with their chips. If I am dealer, SB or BB I will choose to raise it much more to kill off those people with just connectors, suited or otherwise.
 
Limping monsters in cash games is a very bad idea, unless a very aggressive player is acting after you. Even then I would not think it is too great of an idea.

In a tournament when it is down to the last couple of people sometimes I will limp a monster to throw my betting patterns off. I know the hand will not have a lot of players in it because there isnt that many left. Also when the final table dwindles down a lot of people are raising with A high or K high so most likely someone will raise and I can call or reraise depending on the situation.
 
zzITCHY420zz said:
flop comes 9c, 2d, and 4d.

which hand would u prefer? ace of diamonds and a 3 of diamonds, or a 3 5 of diamonds?
Click to expand...
it's really hard to answer questions like this without knowing how many players, what's gone, etc.

based on the information you give, i'd take the A3 any time - it's roughly 20% more likely to win.

alasdair
 
zzITCHY420zz said:
flop comes 9c, 2d, and 4d.

which hand would u prefer? ace of diamonds and a 3 of diamonds, or a 3 5 of diamonds?
Click to expand...


I would take the Ad 3d. 3d 5d is a monster draw but if someone has a better flush you are going to lose a lot of money. In cash games if I have the nut flush draw and an overcard I like jamming the pot. I will reraise any bet pretty much with that hand.
 
check out this board in a game i played today:

poker01.jpg


i've seen 3 aces on a board but never 4. i made a modest raise pre-flop and got two callers. when the flop came, i threw out another modest bet to try to narrow it down a bit. one folded, one called. when the turn brought another ace i checked. the river was irrelevant and i knew i couldn't lose - i didn't move all-in but put in a decent bet, putting the other player all in. the other player thought about it for ages before calling. we split the pot with a K each.

it's not at all clear to me why the other player took so long to call. i wonder if they were just inexperienced and though there may be some way they could still lose which they hadn't yet thought of...

one of the benefits of online play, to me, is that i see so many hands that, both online and moreso in real life, i never have to think about what i have, what my outs are, etc. - it's automatic. i can concentrate on other aspects of the game.

alasdair
 
i wonder... do you think he didn't realise that wouldn't make any difference?

anyway, it's about an hour later. 470 players have been eliminated, there are 87 players left and i'm in 9th place. wish me luck :)

alasdair
 
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