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Thread: The Big & Dandy 2C-TFM Thread

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    #51
    In the name of truth and harmreduction:the batch I tasted (see my report on page1 2C-TFM thread) was about 94% pure,reminder 2C-I.I decided the Jodo to be well below threshold and gave it a try.I'm pretty sure to have been in or close to plus-three land with 5mg.It felt safe though.

    The batch in question with its from 40-50% (hard to determine as the wavelenghts are totally out of sync) CI content had some other minor impurities.I'm not surprised that 8mg won't give even a +3 (whatever batch it was,the CI impurity is a general issue!)

    Be careful with that one.Research chemical means research chemical
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    #52
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    I'd guess that the degree to which the group attached at the 4 position is able to 'pull' the delocalized pi electrons of the aromatic ring will have a correlation to the potency. Obvious other factors (as mentioned above) are polarity and size. Polarity is important as any highly polar group will not fit into the space allowed by the receptor molecule, most probably because of electrostatic charge repulsion. Also it will severely hinder the ability of the molecule to cross the blood brain barrier. Size is a factor, as shown by Shulgin - the fact that the DOx compound with a pentyl group attached to the 4 position (DOAM) is inactive.

    Attached is a jpeg showing the effect of the CF3 group on the delocalized pi electrons. All of the halogens (and some groups such as -CN and -CH2CH2F) have the same effect on said electrons, but to a lesser degree.

    Possibly anything capable of doing this to a greater degree than CF3, but while remaining lipophillic (non-polar) would turn out to be even more potent (if anybody out there with a good understanding of mechanisms of org chemistry can suggest a better group, don't be shy!)
    Last edited by fastandbulbous; 08-12-2005 at 12:30.
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    #53
    I always thought a F3C-CH2 would be an attractive group, considering the increase in potency form CH3 to CH3-CH2. Another advantage is that it's probably chemically feasible.

    If I remember correctly... DOAM has a very high affinity for the 5-HT2A receptor, but it has either very low intrinsic efficiacy, or is an antagonist.

    An other compound, 1-(3,5-dimethoxy-4-(3-phenylpropyl)phenyl)propan-2-amine, with a group of even larger size than amyl in the 4-position, has a Ki of 4nM @ 5-HT2A and 109% efficiacy. In this series even compounds with only one methoxy are very active:
    1-(2-methoxy-4-(3-phenylpropyl)phenyl)propan-2-amine: Ki 8nM, Emax 63% (which is still sufficient for psychedelic activity).
    1-(3-methoxy-4-(3-phenylpropyl)phenyl)propan-2-amine: Ki 17nM, Emax 90%.
    For comparison, the same paper gives a Ki of 16nM for 2C-B and 32nM for DOB (not, it's not a mistake).

    Would be interesting to combine the 4-(3-phenylpropyl) with the dragonfly wings! Or to stick some fluorine on the tail phenyl...
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    #54
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    I always thought a F3C-CH2 would be an attractive group, considering the increase in potency form CH3 to CH3-CH2
    That's why I thought the pentafluoroethyl group (CF3CF2-) might also be a winner, as long as it's not too physically large. Other possible candidates would be methoxydifluoromethyl (CH3OCF2-) and trifluoromethoxydifluoromethyl (CF3OCF2-) as they'd both be quite strong electron withdrawing groups, but at the optimum 3 atoms long chain seen with the 4-propyl compounds (again pending steric considerations).

    As for the large 4-substituent groups, I'm sure I've read somewhere that they're either partial antagonists or just ligands that bind and don't do much at all (other than prevent anything else binding)
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    #55
    " Possibly anything capable of doing this to a greater degree than CF3, but while remaining lipophillic (non-polar) would turn out to be even more potent (if anybody out there with a good understanding of mechanisms of org chemistry can suggest a better group, don't be shy!)"

    1-(2,5-Dimethoxy-4-(pentafluorsulfanyl)phenyl)-aminoethane.Yes,SF5.An extension of the highly effective TFM group,the sulfur is known and allowed at the 4 position.The thing might be a bit too big,but then,the weight is 127 like the jodo which is tolerated.There is a surprisingly sparse literature about the SF5 group (fertile ground I would say,fellow scientists!),it is stable like stone,not too difficult to make.I doubt this has ever been made into a pharmaceutical molecule.
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    #56
    Bluelight Crew fastandbulbous's Avatar
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    Wondering whether the activity -f an SF5 would be like the 4-halogen, 4-alkylthio, or like that of 2C-T-21. If I had to place a bet, I'd think it's be most like 2C-T-21, but a sight more potent
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    impure 2c-tfm LCMS results 
    #57
    That impure 2c-tfm that most people got, LC/MS,

    -----
    40.5% 2C-TFM, 42.2% 2C-I, and 4 other compounds present in 4.0, 4.4, 5.8 and 3.0 %'s

    The masses I see are
    207/208,
    307/309 (2C-I),
    250/251/264 (-TFM and I dunno whats up with the 264)
    244
    215
    and also a peak in the "show me all masses present" of 182.1 which could be the M+1 for 2C-H
    ------

    I don't have any of the images yet (analysed a buncha shit) but thats what my friend's got right now. Well shit 2c-tfm must be pretty fuckin' potent cause it doesn't take much of the above mix to work good, and it didn't really feel like 2c-i (i dont know whats the highest dose i've taken) it felt like the other "more pure" tfm I had a 1mg taste of.

    I hope some pure 2C-TFM shows up again cause I definitely liked it, and i'd like to see how potent it really is and the effects at the higher levels without 2c-i. Also i bet DOTFM is ultra potent, and DOTFM-fly or dragonfly nfly fuck..
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    #58
    hugo24, any correspondence with your earlier data in re the nature of the contaminants?
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    #59
    What wavelength have your results been measured yaesutom (I guess 220nm)?2-CI and 2-TFM have very different absorption patterns (Trifuoromethyl is very elektronegative and distorts the aromat,plus iodo stuff often adds odd UV itensity),I found 230 the most accurate for those 2 because it corresponds the closest with NMR data.

    The 220nm data says 46.8% 2C-TFM,49.7% 2C-I and 3.47% of an unknown polar compound XX (2smaller compounds present but unintegrated, I lost the HPLC data to reintegrate).

    At 230nm: 57.9% 2C-TFM,37.7% 2C-I,2.08% imp.,1.84% imp. (ment. above),0.9% imp...I might do it again as there were doubts regarding baseline separation/slightly contaminated TFA,but it won't change the big picture.

    The MS:Usually the phens show also a peak minus 17 (ammonia),264 might be that plus Methanol?
    XX/with mass 215(217?) maybe 2C-C from the Jodmonochloride jodination?
    On the others I have to pass.Maybe C6H6 has a good idea?In the halogenated you usually have some isomers/overreacted compounds present.
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    #60
    The drawing is correct,a benzyl has an CH2 on the phenylring.
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    #61
    anyone sample real 2ctfm that had no 2ci in it if so id like to here about it.I heard this stuff was really good im dieing to try it
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    #62
    Bluelight Crew Delsyd's Avatar
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    it came and it went

    now its a thing of legends.

    (then again legends never die as has been shown with 2cb, 2ct7, 5 meo dipt, amt, DOM, psilocin and plethora of other substabces)

    I await the return of this exotic phenethylamine
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    #63
    Quote Originally Posted by fastandbulbous
    Wondering whether the activity -f an SF5 would be like the 4-halogen, 4-alkylthio, or like that of 2C-T-21. If I had to place a bet, I'd think it's be most like 2C-T-21, but a sight more potent
    Are you sure that the 2C-SF5 is like other 2C-T-X ? In the pentafluorosulfanyl, the four fluor-atoms take two electron-pair of the sulfur-atom, not in the 2C-T-x ...

    The SF5 has no similarity with thioethers. It is extremely lipophilic with very strong electron withdrawing due to flor-atoms. This is a sort of super pseudo halogen... bigger than iodine and more lipophilic than trifluoromethyl !

    Does anyone know how the -SF5 group are eliminated out of the body ? ?
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    #64
    That was the original rational for its designing,highly lipophilic yet strongly electron withdrawing,sort of an extension to the so far most potent groups beyond Jodine like Trifluoromethyl,2-Fluoroethylthio,2-Fluoroethyl and maybe the 2,2,2-Trifluoroethylthio/2,2,2-Trifluoroethyl (the latter two exist as well but human data is not public yet to my knowledge).Though your point about Sulfurs different oxidation state is valid.And chances that the SF5 is finally too big there are intact to formulate it positively.

    As for the metabolism I would say it is stable like a stone (welcomed in the 2C series) as the SF5 is mostly inert (read up also on SF6:

    http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schwefelhexafluorid )

    But as with all new things its expected to be a black box,ready to be enlightned!

    Btw the problem with the 2C-J contaminant in 2C-TFM is hard to solve,some will be steered away by this potentially legal issue.
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    #65
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    Well I haven't heard of this being at all avail;able in a long time, and the 2C-TFM that WAS available at one point turned out to be 50% 2C-I if I recall correctly. I highly doubt these gels (you also said blotter though? Any 2C-X could fit into gel tabs I think, no problem). 6-7 hours, not that intense? It could be a lot of things, and I think jumping to 2C-TFM as a conclusion is probably making a whole lot of assumptions, and given its extreme rarity, it's highly unlikely. Someone with 2C-TFM would probably try to sell it as 2C-TFM because if they managed to get some, they'd have to be tapped into the online community, and loads of people in the online community would pay eagerly to have some 2C-TFM.
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    #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xorkoth View Post
    Well I haven't heard of this being at all avail;able in a long time, and the 2C-TFM that WAS available at one point turned out to be 50% 2C-I if I recall correctly. I highly doubt these gels (you also said blotter though? Any 2C-X could fit into gel tabs I think, no problem). 6-7 hours, not that intense? It could be a lot of things, and I think jumping to 2C-TFM as a conclusion is probably making a whole lot of assumptions, and given its extreme rarity, it's highly unlikely. Someone with 2C-TFM would probably try to sell it as 2C-TFM because if they managed to get some, they'd have to be tapped into the online community, and loads of people in the online community would pay eagerly to have some 2C-TFM.
    Yeah you make a great point. I personally have a lot of experience with the 2c-x's (and various RC's), and I know 100% that these geltabs were a 2c-x compound. (no blotters, they were red "geltabs" which were extremely hard, almost like plastic, with white specks embedded in them, very bitter.)

    I have more experience with 2c-e than 2c-I, but the lack of uncomfortable body load (and back tingles I get on 2c-e, up and down my spine) made me believe it is 2c-I, although I did have suspicions it was something else(2c-tfm). But you're right, that compound is extremely rare, and hasn't been around in years.

    Definitely not 2c-b, maybe 2c-I.

    Mostly curious because I'm sitting on a strip of some good WoW and would love to combine it with some 2c-e/i, but I'm trying to pinpoint what substance it is before dropping it all (the responsible thing to do IMO).

    Oh, and I really appreciate the reply Xorkoth.
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    #67
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    Well if you're sure it's a 2C-X you could combine with LSD... I mean, I don't know of any psychedelics that have a bad reaction with LSD.

    It does sound like it could be 2C-I. But honestly it's impossible to tell without scientific testing methods like GC/MS or LC/MS.
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    #68
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    I've heard loads of reports lately of 2C-B( hydrobromide i would imagine, for ease of solubility in water. . the hcl is a bitch) in gelatin tabs so it makes sense that other 2Cs would follow. Im suprised it hasnt been done before, considering the ease of working with gelatin and the difficulty of pressed tablets or tediousness of loading capsules. But then again, up until fairly recently the 2Cs were more of a conneisseurs drug rather than mass market, and the discriminating consumer wanted identifiable unadulterated products. But this seems to be changing.......
    Last edited by amanitadine; 16-11-2010 at 03:57.
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    #69
    I finally tried this, to sum up I went up to 40mg and it was underwhelming. My source says its confirmed 2c-tfm and he's reliable so I don't know what to think. If you look into previous reports, the only good ones are from 5-6 years ago of a batch that had 2c-i and traces of unknown other stuff. No reports of any recent trials that have had great success. So I'm am not going to jump to the conclusion that what I had wasn't 2c-tfm.
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    #70
    Quote Originally Posted by RUSHDAFUNK View Post
    I finally tried this, to sum up I went up to 40mg and it was underwhelming. My source says its confirmed 2c-tfm and he's reliable so I don't know what to think. If you look into previous reports, the only good ones are from 5-6 years ago of a batch that had 2c-i and traces of unknown other stuff. No reports of any recent trials that have had great success. So I'm am not going to jump to the conclusion that what I had wasn't 2c-tfm.
    I really have my doubts about the 2C-TFM going around. To my knowledge no independent testing has been done on this batch, so what we have is only the COA from the lab that synthed it. How much is that worth really? it could be 2C-C for all we know. Which is more likely in my opinion.

    If it was tested by an independent lab it'd be lovely to see the test results here.

    Edit:
    My scepsis comes from just reading, in a thesis by martin hansen, 2010, how difficult 2CTFM is to synth compared to the other 2C's.
    It appears that the route making it from 2C-I did'nt work at all! they then try another route which "seemed well-documented". That route gave a 85% yield, But:
    "Unfortunately the workup and purification of this reaction turned out to be very cumbersome. The aqueous workup was hampered by the large amounts of colloidal copper waste that was contaminating everything........Purification of the crude product was made difficult because the byproducts and residual starting material were indistinguishable from the product on TLC and flash chromatography was not able to separate the compounds. Distillation was the best option but it was not possible to get rid of all impurities with simple short-path distillation."

    They then try a third undocumented route, which uses commercially available, but expensive, precursors, and have succes with that. But remember, this is still just small scale.

    You'd probably need a totally different route to synthesize a large batch.

    I'd believe it if one of the large RC vendors had invested the money in a large scale custom synthesis, just like how allylescaline became available. And not some small time peddlers from some vendor forum suddenly stocking it.

    When this becomes available, prices are going to be much higher in the begining than any other 2C we've seen before.

    Also about dose, if the 2CTFM from the 5-6 year old batch was 50 % 2C-I, And If 2C-TFM is as weak as this current batch. Then people back then were tripping balls from just 7,5 mg of 2C-I. As the remaining 7,5 mg of 2C-TFM wouldn't have been active at all at that dose.

    Just do the math. Not plausible.
    Last edited by Fagott; 27-12-2012 at 15:29.
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    #71
    Well people have had (earlier in the thread) tested pure 2c-tfm and it is way more potent than 2c-i. The batch that was 50% 2c-i was still well active at low doses and distinctly different to 2c-i or other 2c's, and showed up in LCMS with the right numbers to match -tfm so I think it still had a good amount in there (i've tried it).

    I really wish this one would come around again.. I don't know how hard is it to make allylescaline or methallylescaline but its around. I wonder if 2C-EF is easier to synth, or any of the other fluorinated derivatives?

    The chinese chemical suppliers are able to make 2-fluoroamphetamine/meth or 3-fluoro and 4-fluoro amphetamines, I wonder how difficult that is.. prob easier than if there are methoxy groups but i'm not a chemist.
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    #72
    Yaesutom, I don't doubt that the batch you had back then was real 2C-TFM (with 2CI)
    My post was in response to a batch of "2CTFM" that was distributed by a small time peddler on another forum. People weren't getting any, or just slight effects, from up to 40 mg. Sounds like 2CTFM? And no testing had been done on it, the vendor had gotten a , probably fake, COA from the lab.

    I think that both 2CEF and 2CTFM are hard synths, especially for large scale. But what do I know? I do know though, that the lab that brought allylescaline to the scene, failed at 2CEF.

    MOD ANTI-BUMP EDIT: everything up to this point (except perhaps page 1) has been cleaned up.
    Last edited by Solipsis; 17-02-2015 at 22:09.
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    #73
    It seems this will be made available in a few days guys.. (together with ETH-LAD, 2C-T-4 and 2C-B-FLY!)

    How about this one, has anyone tried a verified batch of 2C-TFM?
    I still need to refresh my memory on this one and it has been a while ago since I read Pihkal (need to find my hard copy for the chapter on 2C-T-4)..But will have add it to my collection anyway..
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    #74
    One time someone sent me a baggie of used 2C-TFM that had like 2mg still left on it, and I licked it. It was mild but still a mild trip and I loved the effects. It seemed to be different to the 2c class in certain ways like it really made blue and green stand out bright, and gave my vision a high frame rate effect that reminded me of DMT and its relatives. Very clean feeling and potent at just a couple mg.

    The stuff I got later that was contaminated with 50% 2C-I still was good but had that dirty feeling from the 2C-I mixed in with the good. I hope the real stuff is out because I definitely want some

    It isn't in Pihkal, but a guy named Murple posted a private Pihkal style entry online some years back that Sasha shared privately in an email to him.
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