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"Bug Chasers" Merge

May I bring a different perspective to this debate?

A gay friend of mine contracted HIV. In chatting with him and doing some reading, I learned some interesting things about the psychology behind some HIV positive gay males.

In many cases, "bug chasers" are already infected with the virus and as twisted as it may sound to most of us, he said in most cases it can become fantasy play since they are already infected.

That being said, it's still a very dangerous practice as it is possible to become reinfected with other variants of the strains. In fact, many HIV positive gay males are found to be infected with various different strains of the same virus.
 
Raz said:
DarthMom, thanks so much for posting that article...

This is something that's very hard for me to come out and say, but it's important to me that I come out and say it. I found out just over a month ago that I'm HIV positive.

I never consciously chased HIV, I was never a "bug chaser", but I have been very self-destructive for a big chunk of my life and part of that was having unsafe sex. That article you posted struck a big chord with me, because I have been that person....I have been that person with no self-esteem, who felt that I was going to die by my own hand at some point anyway, and so I never cared enough about my own welfare to take the necessary precautions that I should have.

It's only now that those consequences are in my face that I know what I have done to myself. And like it says in that article, I do feel that knowledge has helped me grow. To be honest, I am so much happier and prouder of who I am since I have had to face the consequences of my actions than I was before. And I want to help other people feel the same way.

But part of that is in making sure that people don't have to go through what I went through to feel that way. I'm not a better person because I became HIV+, I'm a better person because I had to face being HIV+. I'm a better person because I got rid of all the extraneous bullshit that we burden ourselves with every day and I looked at who I am underneath it all and I found that when I'm not feeling sorry for myself and when I'm not wanting to be someone other than who I am, I'm a pretty fucking awesome person. All of us are pretty fucking awesome people.

If there is even one person who is reading this who either consciously or otherwise hurts themselves like this, think about it....think about the good things that you have in your life and think about what you would miss out on by not being here. I mean really think about it. Think about what it's going to mean to your friends to bury you, or what it's going to mean for you to not ever be able to have kids. It's a big deal.

If anyone wants to pm me, go for it. If this helps one other person, it has been worth it. :)

I live in a city with a high rate of HIV infection in young gay males, and your comments are in line with what I've heard from others. Many people say that they are stronger, better people because they've had to face HIV. Becoming infected did not make them better people, but facing their mortality and making healthy life choices often puts them in a better physical, mental and emotional headspace than ever before in their life.

It also is encouraging that with today's early detection and treatment options available, HIV has become a chronic, manageable condition for most people with access to Western medicine and they are living happy, healthy, fulfilled lives.
 
I read this article recently, and though it disturbed and sickened me, I could definitely begin to comprehend the mental path that would lead to this behaviour.

Accepting responsibility for our own mortality is often a sobering thought - I see it as an extrapolation of the whole 'if i don't try I can't fail' mindset - something I've definitely been guilty of.

And Raz - all my love <3 xxx :(
 
wow, raz... i can't imagine :( <3

Raz said:
I have been very self-destructive for a big chunk of my life and part of that was having unsafe sex.

you certainly seem to have come to a good, grounded perspective on things though. i think you're very brave. i bet a lot of people can relate to your quote above - i know i certainly can. sometimes people get to a point where they aren't really thinking about consequences, so hopefully your words will resonate with a lot of people (like me) who tend to engage in risky behavior.
 
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rashandreflex said:
if they are willing the get the disease, why do they need to get it before they start a free-for-all barebacking policy? why not just bareback and accept your fate either way?

i was going to say that if someone wants to get HIV, it's his/her business (i tend to be pretty libertarian), but in this case, i think that the repurcussions of the actions are too large to warrant that attitude (esp since most seem to want to sleep around indiscriminately afterward...)

I'm not even going to justify these ridiculous arguments with responses.
 
Thanks for comments/pm's etc, you people are awesome. In all seriousness, this sort of connection and support with people is why I love bluelight. :)

I'm not going to go on about it too much cause that's what my journal is for, but I am coping heaps better than I thought I would...on with the thread!

rashandreflex said:
if they are willing the get the disease, why do they need to get it before they start a free-for-all barebacking policy? why not just bareback and accept your fate either way?
I guess that's a fair question, but the psychology of it is a lot more complicated....for one thing there's a perception that HIV+ guys are more willing to bareback than HIV- guys are because they're sick already, so why wouldn't they? Therefore some guys want to become positive because they see it as increasing the pool of fuckbuddies they have available.

What that argument misses is that you can get different strains of HIV and just like any disease, you mix them together and you can create a new strain altogether which is more resistant...not to mention the other STI's which can be transferred with unsafe sex - I think there is a perception that there's kind of a "safety net" with being HIV+...there's a sense that "this is the worst that could happen to me so I can take as many risks as I like because it's never going to get worse". This is of course bullshit, it can get a lot worse, but a lot of people don't find this out till it's too late.

i was going to say that if someone wants to get HIV, it's his/her business (i tend to be pretty libertarian), but in this case, i think that the repurcussions of the actions are too large to warrant that attitude (esp since most seem to want to sleep around indiscriminately afterward...)
I do understand what you're saying here with the libertarian bit...I think it's a very loaded topic but I understand where you're coming from - the only bit I would take exception with is the generalisation that most want to sleep around indiscriminately afterwards...sure it happens, but it's not really fair to paint everyone with the same brush. That's like saying most people who get a cold start eating fast food more - having a virus doesn't change the way your behave, psychological and environmental factors change the way you behave (and ultimately you do yourself obviously).
 
mariposa420 said:
I'm not even going to justify these ridiculous arguments with responses.
ummm, i was agreeing with you8)

Raz said:
I guess that's a fair question, but the psychology of it is a lot more complicated....for one thing there's a perception that HIV+ guys are more willing to bareback than HIV- guys are because they're sick already, so why wouldn't they? Therefore some guys want to become positive because they see it as increasing the pool of fuckbuddies they have available.

I do understand what you're saying here with the libertarian bit...I think it's a very loaded topic but I understand where you're coming from - the only bit I would take exception with is the generalisation that most want to sleep around indiscriminately afterwards...sure it happens, but it's not really fair to paint everyone with the same brush. That's like saying most people who get a cold start eating fast food more - having a virus doesn't change the way your behave, psychological and environmental factors change the way you behave (and ultimately you do yourself obviously).

raz-
i am actually really mortified going back and re-reading my post (i wrote it in the early morning during class which may explain my less-than-precise language)...it came across as much more offensive than i intended. your clarification on the psychology makes more sense to me...that angle did not occur to me.

with my second statement, i intended 'most' to refer to the men who purposely contracted HIV so that they could sleep around without worrying (that was my impression of the "bug chasers" according to this thread, eg "knowing that they are already infected means that they can have all the unprotected sex they want and not have to worry any longer" from post #27) not to anyone who purposely gets HIV (it seems there could be other motivations for wanting it) but 'most' was vague and actually made it sound like all HIV positive guys want to sleep around indiscriminately...that's definitely not what i intended it to mean, and i'm sorry if i offended anyone.
 
bug chasers-people who want to become HIV+

Has anyone here ever encountered bug chasers or people who actually want to become HIV+?

I have and they're real and some people do it for sympathy, some do it on purpose so they'll get benefits from the government/meds/housing, and some do it because their partner is and they have a martyr complex and think that they'll be forever linked to this person as their caretaker if as an HIV neg person they become HIV poz.

If you don't believe me watch the documentary called The Gift.
Link: http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0355482/

I know people who are HIV+ and they still swallow and bareback and have a death wish and want to get other strains of HIV and yes you can get reinfected with other strains of HIV.

I know one guy who is poz and he runs an HIV educational org and I saw an ad on Craigslist where he was asking for bareback sex and didn't care if people flooded his ass with cum. :(

I post on another message board and one guy there who is a bug chaser wrote about how he was celebrating and bragging about the fact that he became HIV+ from his boyfriend and how high his viral load is and he even had a party to celebrate it!

I felt physically sick reading about the celebration of death/disease like that, reading about how he got pill organizers for a gift at his party, and the dude has a death wish and needs therapy to say the least!

Other poz men there who are with HIV- men say how their HIV- boyfriends know the risks and yet don't use condoms and swallow their semen and say how if they became HIV+ it wouldn't be a big deal to them at all. :(
 
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natural selection at work.

i have no sympathy for people who put their own lives at risk on purpose.
 
PlacentaJuan: I'm closing this because we have an existing thread on bug chasing/gift giving. See here, and feel free to bump that one if you like.
 
merged and cleaned up

ithink that people who do this have something missing in their lives they are trying to make up for.

Be it attention or government money what have you they feel incomplete and think thats the way to go.......

sad
 
I'm really blown away by this whole thread. I am saddened, disturbed, and enlightened (not in a good way) all at the same time.

I don't know what else to say.
 
Just watched some vids on this last night on Youtube, as it's always fascinated me.

What I got out of it is that some guys assume it's "inevitable" that they'll get infected anyway, so why not go ahead and get it so they can fuck whomever they want?

Sounds to me like they already are.

Seriously, how fucking PROMISCUOUS, unstable, shallow and sex-obsessed does one have to be to assume they'll end up getting HIV? We know what causes infection: lack of protection, promiscuity, and other high risk behaviors. It ain't rocket surgery, people. It appears that these men could benefit by placing less value on sex in their lives, or at least being safe when they have it. Is your life really worth the sensation you get during the 2 minutes of condomless sex? Are you really that short-sighted and disgusting? The fact is, you probably won't get HIV if you avoid the obvious behaviors that lead to it. I guess some morons place meaningless sex with lots of strangers above their own lives.

All of that would be fine if it didn't endanger the rest of the population. The risk of a "superstrain" of HIV emerging is very real, not only from bug chasing but also from increasing numbers of people getting HIV and not complying with their medicine regimens, which leads to treatment-resistant mutations in the virus.

I support 100% the right of a person to end his or her own life if they're not happy, selfish as it may be; but for God sake just go blow your brains out or swallow some fucking strychnine and stop endangering the rest of us who actually value our time on this planet.
 
axis, with no love!!!

i'm bumping up this sad thread on bug chasers cause of axis repeatedly calling me and jeffers bug chasers cause we would or have had safe sex with hiv pos men
please read, it's clear that we are not bug chasers!!!

steve
 
C'mon, you need to get hip to the new ways. When a troll says something enough times, it is TRUE. He said you were, so you were - stop confusing things.

In fact, bumping this thread is kind of disruptive. Shouldn't you just accept that you are being insulted with a lie and stop expecting anything different? We have trolls here, and trolls don't like it when they have to back up their attacks with facts. It slows them down and makes them feel sad.

Without trolls, where would we be? A bunch of adults, discussing things maturely and learning from each other? What the FUCK! Like that's every going to happen. 8)

Fausty
 
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