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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

Poppy Seed Opium - Inexperienced - 'Home Made Opium'

supersnail said:
h-90, you say body load is lower with water than methylated spirits....
are the positive effects just as strong?
i'm trying to figure out the best solvent to use to make a smokable extract.
thanks.

The water batch was weaker but that might have been because it was boiled at to much of a high temprature and killed the active alkliods.

Jaw Clenching: To get a putty you have to keep evaportating the resin down. I also don't recomend using ethonal and methonal (methylated spirits).

Why do you have to use alchohol? The active alkliods are soluable in water and water can be boiled at a low temprature just the same as alchohol. Plus water is cheaper and healthier for you :)
 
h-90 said:
The water batch was weaker but that might have been because it was boiled at to much of a high temprature and killed the active alkliods.

Jaw Clenching: To get a putty you have to keep evaportating the resin down. I also don't recomend using ethonal and methonal (methylated spirits).

Why do you have to use alchohol? The active alkliods are soluable in water and water can be boiled at a low temprature just the same as alchohol. Plus water is cheaper and healthier for you :)

I think next time I'm going to fill a large sauce pan with distilled water and add a small amout of some kind of food-grade acid. Throw in a KG of seeds and simmer for a few hours, separate seeds from liquid and evaporate.

I thought alcohol would be a better choice because it evaporates much quicker than water.

Is anyone going to try an A/B extraction? I'm not even a really big fan of this stuff, so it's kind of low on my priority list. About how many mg of active alkaloids would be in a KG of seeds? How much is a full dose for someone with no tolerance (assuming the A/B extraction yielded crystals :) )?
 
lumberjack: only some samples of poppy seeds have active alkaloids (codeine, morphine) on the surface--presumably those that haven't been washed well. so there's an element of luck involved in whether you will extract anything useful.
 
Are you sure it isn't placebo? I have tried making "smokable opium" from poppy seeds about 10 to 15 times and each time it was bunk. You get a brown resinny putty that when smoked taste like flowers, but does shit all.

I've tried 90% rubbing alcohol, boiling down water, everything except ever clear. Perhaps it's the impatience of boiling it down to a putty... maybe if it was left to evaporate in the sun for a couple of days without any boiling you would feel the effects more.
 
physical/chemical properties of morphine, codeine

boiling shouldn't hurt the codeine or morphine:

morphine decomposes at 250 C
codeine melts at 154-158 C (i'm not sure if this is also the decomposition point, but it clearly does not decompose at <100 C). codeine is light sensitive, but i don't know if that will be a factor here.

i found some solubility info too, that might help someone:
morphine 1g in 15mL H20 (25 C)
codeine 1 g in: 120 mL H20 (25 C), 15 mL H20 (100 C), 2 mL EtOH (25 C)
codeine is especially soluble in dilute acids.

does anyone know if a certain solvent is more selective of the desired alkaloids, ie. if some solvents retain less inert material than others?

i too am interested to hear from more people who have had definite positive experiences creating smokable "opium" from poppy seeds. it seems unlikely that this could work well....

i think this thread might fit better in Drug Basics or Other Drugs. anyone else? i'm new here, and not quite sure how such things work.
 
It proberly should be in other drugs but I happned to write a trip report with the frist post so I put it here.

What you end up at then end is weak but it is worthwhile for the effort.
 
Re: physical/chemical properties of morphine, codeine

supersnail said:
boiling shouldn't hurt the codeine or morphine:

morphine decomposes at 250 C
codeine melts at 154-158 C (i'm not sure if this is also the decomposition point, but it clearly does not decompose at <100 C). codeine is light sensitive, but i don't know if that will be a factor here.

i found some solubility info too, that might help someone:
morphine 1g in 15mL H20 (25 C)
codeine 1 g in: 120 mL H20 (25 C), 15 mL H20 (100 C), 2 mL EtOH (25 C)
codeine is especially soluble in dilute acids.

does anyone know if a certain solvent is more selective of the desired alkaloids, ie. if some solvents retain less inert material than others?

i too am interested to hear from more people who have had definite positive experiences creating smokable "opium" from poppy seeds. it seems unlikely that this could work well....

i think this thread might fit better in Drug Basics or Other Drugs. anyone else? i'm new here, and not quite sure how such things work.

Is that reference referring to a certain morphine and codeine salt or the freebase? Does anyone know if the alkaloids present on the seed coatings are in freebase form (my guess is they are). I think adding some sort of weaker acid would help the alkaloids become more stable, and more soluable in polar solutions.

Does anyone have any new information regarding new extraction techniques?
 
FWIW, I think I have to add this in:

While poppy seed tea reports are variable, poppy tea (from dried whole poppy pods) certainly works, as many of our old-time BL posters will attest. However, instead of making tea with a last batch of pods, I decided that I would grind em up, make the tea, and then boil it down until it reached 'putty' or 'opium' stage.

It turned out to be a complete waste. I got a few grams of the stuff, but it was entirely unsmokable, harsh and disgusting. What would have been 5-6 strong doses of poppy tea was instead wasted as a gross brownish raisin-smelling chunk of pod-putty - which was completely unsmokable (and believe me, I tried.. Oh did I try)

Perhaps an alcohol extraction would have worked better than the water extraction I did via the tea... but I just wanted to put this out there for everyone, because this is a valuable and interesting subject.

Respect The Pod. (And apparently, resepect the seeds within too! :) )
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Yeah, I'm almost starting to think that the tea is the only way to go with this stuff. Did you try gel capping the rest of the resin? Do you think it'd be active that way? AFOAF has quite a bit of it left, but they're not about to attempt to smoke that crap again...
 
Jawclenching: my reference was to the codeine base, and morphine sulfate. i can try to find the link if you want....

i'm curious to know whether the "unsmokable" extracts people have gotten are orally active. i don't know much about smoking opium, but is it possible that incorrect smoking technique is to blame? from what (little) we know about the properties of C and M, it seems like applying a direct flame would damage them. also, both are water soluble, so the water in a water pipe will absorb some of the alkaloids.

some of these last few replies left me a bit disheartened, but i've been doing some reading on alt.drugs.chemistry, and it sounds like a few people there have obtained a smokable product from seeds (try a search for some combination of "poppy seeds" "smoke/ing" and "opium" and you'll find the threads). a FOAF has a bunch of seeds now, and he's planning to try an extraction over the weekend. i'll post results then.
 
supersnail said:

i'm curious to know whether the "unsmokable" extracts people have gotten are orally active. i don't know much about smoking opium, but is it possible that incorrect smoking technique is to blame? from what (little) we know about the properties of C and M, it seems like applying a direct flame would damage them. also, both are water soluble, so the water in a water pipe will absorb some of the alkaloids.

I have used both a pipe and bong with no results, smoking it by itself and mixed with weed. Tin foil method did nothing as well, so I doubt that adding a flame to the psuedo opium is to blame.
 
supersnail said:
i don't know much about smoking opium, but is it possible that incorrect smoking technique is to blame?

I used a glass vaporizer to smoke my sample, and didn't get much out of it. No direct flame on my stuff and it still didn't work.

I'm going to try an A/B extraction next time, but I don't know when I'll have a chance, it's not too high on priority list still...
 
here are the details of a crazy dream i had last night:

600g of poppy seeds were placed in an empty, 3L bottle. i filled the bottle with enough water to cover the seeds, and two capfulls of white vinegar. i alternated between vigorous shaking and light agitation for about 10 minutes, and then unscrewed the cap a bit, and strained the liquid into a saucepan. i then put a similar amount of water back into the bottle with the seeds, and did a second wash, again straining the solution into the saucepan. the solution was a milky/brownish color with a suspension of fine, light brown particles.

i turned the heat up to medium-high and let the solution boil vigorously. soon after it started boiling, a brownish scum was visible on the surface of the liquid. precipitate formed on the sides of the pan, and i scraped it off, back into the liquid, every 5-10 minutes. after 30 minutes, all the liquid had evaporated, and i scraped the remaining dark brownish putty off the pan, and squished it into a ball. the consistency was somewhere between gummy and crumbly.

i took a marble sized chunk--about 1/3 of the total product--and tossed it in my bubbler (small waterpipe, but with all the water drained out). it didn't light well, and the only way i could get smoke was by holding the flame on the material the entire time i was inhaling. even then, i only got small amounts of smoke. but, i persevered, and over the course of about 20 minutes, i had converted the "opium" to ash.

the act of smoking this stuff was very unpleasant. it tasted awful, was pretty harsh, and was just plain difficult to smoke. however, i did get a definite, undeniable high. on the few times when i got a decent sized hit, i felt a substantial relaxed/euphoric buzz, similar, but not identical to being very stoned. the strong buzz lingered for 5 minutes or so, and then faded gradually over the next hour, at which time i went to sleep.

the bottom line: the high, while tangible and enjoyable, is just not good enough to justify the difficulty and general grossness of smoking the stuff, especially when drinking the alkaloids in tea is an easy alternative. no regrets about trying it though.
 
smoking seed extract DOES work. You got to understand some common sense though. When you make tea, you are ingesting all the morphine/opiates at once. When you smoke it, you are only doing little increments of that full dosage, one hit at a time. So technically to get the same effect from tea when you smoke, you would have to smoke all of the shit in a very short period of time, which is very bad for your lungs, and impluasible to do.

Just stick with the tea. And why do you call it tea? Opiates are more soluble in cold water. The colder the better. I always use grapefruit juice, and put a pound of seeds in one bottle and a pound in another. Do the shake and wait thing, then strain with the loose bottle cap, then drink it all down as fast as possible. You can repeate the washing/extraction maybe 3-4 times if you happen to come across some really "dirty" (the good kind of dirty, as in the opiates weren't washed off very well) seeds.

Some brands have really washed seeds, and you have to use like 4 pounds to get even a small little feeling. Some brands you can use less than a pound and itch like a bitch.

I find it that the seeds in the bulk bins at healthfood stores are the best.
 
^ ever heard of iced tea? or the diet snapple teas?

Tea doesn't neccessarily mean "hot".
 
If one was to extract the morphine , how easy it then to convert it to heroin?
 
Lol @ DexterMeth's understanding of the word "tea". ;)

@8ft-Sativa
Very easy! It's a two step procedure that will take the experienced 5 hours with basic equipment and easy to obtain chemicals. Scary, huh?
Here's a link.

crOOk
 
hey, im up to 16mg xanax daily, with the occasional 30-40mg hydrocodon. I BLAME THE DRUGS!
 
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