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  • Trip Reports Moderator: Xorkoth

Poppy Seed Opium - Inexperienced - 'Home Made Opium'

crOOk said:
Lol @ DexterMeth's understanding of the word "tea". ;)

@8ft-Sativa
Very easy! It's a two step procedure that will take the experienced 5 hours with basic equipment and easy to obtain chemicals. Scary, huh?
Here's a link.

crOOk
Click to expand...
Wow man , that is easy , but would you have to convert the poppy liquid to morphine base first or could you just do the conversion from the poppy seed juice?
 
dextermeth, opiates (C and M) are more soluble in hot water, the hotter the better. check an MSDS or other chemical stat sheet.

i do, however, think you make a good point about why drinking the poppy seed extract is better than smoking it.
 
@8ft-Sativa
Dude, check out the link, it's all in there. You can start off with Morphine base or Morphine HCl or whatever, but sure not with poppy tea... :D
Just check that site again, as far as I can remember it explains the whole process. It's Heroine manufacture for Dummies, man! ;)

crOOk
 
Wow, I never thought my TR on poppy sead 'tea' would create such and interesting discussion.

I will definately keep track of this post to see any future attempts at extracting morphine base from poppy seed extract.
 
how hot is hot? Can the water get to be boiling hot? I just made that statement because of my experience with coldwater extraction for hydrocodone from paracetamol.

Yeah this has turned out to be quite a thread. I'm going to abstain from doing any further extractions and just stick to the tea until someone comes up with something better. I use 2lbs to get a good high. Only costs like 3 dollars. Cant beat that.
 
^^^^^^^^^^^^

I agree, smoking the stuff works - but it's not worth it. The smoke is way harsh, and it's difficult to smoke (almost impossible for me to smoke enough to even feel it).

The tea however is quite nice.

Perhaps one day someone or myself will see what kind of results a simple acid / base extraction will yield.
 
A/B extract

i've been asking around for a while on what to use and how to do this. I know you can do a search for it, but i would like to know the most efficient, yet cost effective, and user friendly "for dummies" way of going about doing this.

I'm buzzing hard on 1 1/2LB right now. I always use grapefruit juice.

Oh and I start work thursday as a pharmacy clerk. :)
 
DexterMeth said:
how hot is hot? Can the water get to be boiling hot? I just made that statement because of my experience with coldwater extraction for hydrocodone from paracetamol.

Yeah this has turned out to be quite a thread. I'm going to abstain from doing any further extractions and just stick to the tea until someone comes up with something better. I use 2lbs to get a good high. Only costs like 3 dollars. Cant beat that.
Click to expand...

Shit 2 pounds , thats alot of seed , im lucky down here i get a nice buzz off 200 grams.
 
C and M are most soluble in boiling hot water. Stuff tends to be more soluble in a warmer solvent (in fact, I can't think of a case where this is not true, although I suspect there are some...anyone?). The reason you use cold water to separate hydrocodone from paracetamol, or codeine from APAP, is because the solubility of the bad stuff decreases more sharply than the solubility of the good stuff, making the extraction more efficient at a lower temp. To illustrate:

*The numbers are made up. This is just to demonstrate a point.*
Codeine is soluble 1g in 10mL 25C water
Codeine is soluble 1g in 20mL 1C water
and
APAP is soluble 1g in 100mL 25C water
APAP is soluble 1g in 5000mL 1C water
 
Supersnail is correct.

Regarding whether this is always the case, no it's not always the case but a function of the fact that we are talking about an endothermic reaction. Granted, most reactions are endothermic.

Here's a short explanation for anyone that might care: when you dissolve a solid in a liquid a process takes place that is in some ways comparable to melting. To break the bonds holding the molecules of the solid together you need heat (but remember this forms solvent bonds and the formation of such bonds always generates some degree of heat).

If the heat given off in the dissolving process itself is more than you actually need to break those bonds then the dissolving action is exothermic, that is to say it gives off energy rather than requiring energy. Under these circumstances heating the solution decreases solubility, but that is relatively rare.

If the energy created by the formation of the solvent bonds is less than that required to break apart the solid bonds you have an endothermic reaction - a reaction requiring energy. More heat in this case means more energy, facilitating the breaking down of the solid bonds and allowing more particles to be suspended in the solution.

That was a very rough draft of the principles at work, btw.

--- G.
 
thank you for that informative piece on the basics of the process of extraction. Since you seem to know quite a bit about chemistry, do you know anything about doing an A/B extract? Best stuff to use? Best way to do it?....but that can be done by a laymen mind you.
 
Well, I know some of the basic principles, but I'm not much of a chemist unfortunately :(

I've always been under the impression that seeds were a bit of a waste of time and effort compared to pods (let alone the raw opium latex itself). People's results tend to be really hit and miss, whereas pods are much easier to work with. Of course that has already been mentioned, but the thing is I don't recall reading any very convincing accounts/recipes of alkaloid extraction from seeds, so I'm not sure what advice I can give you.

Do you have any access to pods at all? They can be found in many hobby shops, the kind that granmothers go to when they make dried flower decorations, perfect for tea =D

--- G.

p.s. I still don't think you are going to end up with a smokable opium-like product this way, for that it's opium latex all the way, imho
 
well in theory it should actually work quite well. I get REALLY fucked up off the right amount of seed tea. So in theory a seed extract should work, but you probably have to use much more seeds than for the tea. I want to try something along the lines of A/B extraction on seeds, because they are so damn cheap. Course i could get pods, but they arent nearly as cost effective as the seeds have been. I got 2lbs last night for $1.75

The potency varies, but from my source, not by that much. I could still use more than 2lbs though. I'm going to save up some of the seeds and try 4lbs, evaporate most of the water, then add grapefruit juice for taste/potentiation of the BBB. I would think slamming down 1 glass in a minute or a number of gulps of 4lbs washed would fuck you up quite good, and thus make the extraction pointless.

Still interested in extraction though. But with Iso alc, it seems pointless, cause it's not pure enough. You gotta take a least 20hits to feel something "OK", and at 5 hits i'm already hacking up tar. So if i could purify it, it would be more morphine instead of inert material, thus "BOOM!"

But then that brings up another question. Can you even smoke morphine?
 
One thing I feel confident to answer: you can smoke morphine. When you smoke opium you are basically smoking morphine and codeine along with some thebaine.

--- G.
 
yeah, but is the morphine in the same form when in opium as when you would do an extraction, or if you were to obtain pure pharmgrade morphine in ampules?
 
DexterMeth said:
yeah, but is the morphine in the same form when in opium as when you would do an extraction, or if you were to obtain pure pharmgrade morphine in ampules?
Click to expand...

Note: this is speculation, I can't seem to find the darn rhodium mirror anywhere at the moment to check my facts.

The morphine alkaloid in opium is naturally alkaline, but I'm not sure about pharm morphine. Most morphine tends to be for injection, it's not a very efficient drug when taken orally. However, I am not well versed in how pharm grade solutions are made or what considerations come into play, it may well be that a hcl salt is optimum for such purposes also.

In any case, apart from the base-salt question the only difference between the two would be purity. Opium contains a whole bunch of different alkaloids such as codeine and thebaine, which would not be particularly easy to remove. In fact some heroin makers don't bother seperating the morphine and just acetylize the whole soup of alkaloids - this tends to result in "black tar" type smack.

Anyway, hope that helps.

--- G.
 
well, soaking 250g poppy seed into water, filtering and evaporating it gave me a white gum that couldn't be smoked (I guess there is some seed material mixed to it so it cannot burn) and other thing: this gum would not dissolve into alcohol ! (this is very strange as it was a solution before evaporation so it should have been possible to dissolve this gum again, but it was remaining solid even after shaking it into alcohol for 10 minutes).
So I think the best solvent to extract some "poppy seed opium" are non polar sovent (polar solvant like water/alcohol don't seem to do the job correctly).
 
^I have since done it a couple times with water/alcohol...it's a waste of time...with polar solvents at least.
 
genaro said:
well, soaking 250g poppy seed into water, filtering and evaporating it gave me a white gum that couldn't be smoked (I guess there is some seed material mixed to it so it cannot burn) and other thing: this gum would not dissolve into alcohol ! (this is very strange as it was a solution before evaporation so it should have been possible to dissolve this gum again, but it was remaining solid even after shaking it into alcohol for 10 minutes).
So I think the best solvent to extract some "poppy seed opium" are non polar sovent (polar solvant like water/alcohol don't seem to do the job correctly).
Click to expand...


Hmmm, I was just wondering about this. Would re-washing the opium goo produce a more potent product? Or will it not dissolve -everytime- like genaro said happened.
 
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