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    Meth that wont melt in water 
    #1
    Hey all, just wondering why this is...

    Last NYE I got what my mates call "smokeable speed" as it looks like normal powder speed except you can put it in your glass pipe and smoke it ....or what I like to refer to as "cut meth" Now, as I am the only one of my friends who shoots this stuff, only I know that when I add about 1/4 of a mill of water to about 1/2 a point of this stuff that we managed to get it turns into a pulp like consistency, and the only way you can get it to suck up into the syringe is to water it down more and more with hot water and then filter it.

    Does anyone know what the mystery ingredient "they" are putting in meth these days that might do this. When smoking this stuff it leaves a bit more black shit on the pipe than crystal, but it is still fine to smoke, doesnt taste much different to the crystal of old....ahhhh those were the days eh? Getting your meth in big FAT ole crystals...knowing exactly what you were getting and how much of it there was....ahhh....memories....


    Anyways.

    Cheers.
     

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    #2
    Ex-Bluelighter rm1x's Avatar
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    Could be cut with pseudo pills, the binders in pills make gear go claggy, or it coulde be cut with glucodin tablets, I have seen people mistakenly buy the tablets instead of the powder and ruin batches trying to cut it with them.
    It also causes the gear to go claggy as.
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter faerie's Avatar
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    we get alot of smokeable speed, are you sure its meth? I always assumed it was just speed thats smokeable.. but then I'm not 100% sure of the difference anyway.

    edit: actually I'm not sure at all but I smoke it anyway
     

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    #4
    smokable speed ehehe, i hate it when ppl say that.. there is not differance. its just speed (cut meth).

    woulnt have a clue what the cut is tho. something that isnt very solubile in water.
     

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    #5
    Ex-Bluelighter killarava2day's Avatar
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    Caffeine, for sure, burns clear(ish) and turns to glug in water... Horrid stuff.
     

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    #6
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    sorry to sound ignorant, but isn't speed just methamphetamine?
     

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    #7
    Ex-Bluelighter rm1x's Avatar
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    Speed usually refers to (these days at least) methamphetamine that has been diluted with some kind of cutting agent. ie: glucose, epsom salts. It's usually just a powder as opposed to crystals/rocks/shards.

    I have'nt seen it sold in years, but I am told that it's still everywhere all over sydney
     

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    #8
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    Speed usually refers to (these days at least) methamphetamine that has been diluted with some kind of cutting agent. ie: glucose, epsom salts. It's usually just a powder as opposed to crystals/rocks/shards.
    ugghhhh.. this is Australian Drug Discussion not American :s

    in america they dont have amphetamine.. or its very very rare. they have crystal meth (crystal form) or speed (cut) their are other names but cbf..

    in Australia we have speed (amphetamine) and Meth (methamphetamine)

    Speed - Amphetamine

    shorter duration than meth, has more of a body rush than meth (jumping around like a nut) not really something u would want to go to work on if you had a high dose. it would be quite noticable.
    common names - speed, wiz, fizzy stuff

    Meth - Meth-Amphetamine

    longer lasting than speed, effects are more subtle, leaves u feeling "tweaked" or "wired", improved concentration, some euphoria

    common names - crystal (crystalised methampethamine, quite pure) tweak, yaba, glass, shards, ICE (very common but should actually be associated with 4-mar)

    speed will come in various colours and consistancys. one day u might buy a dry white powder, the next day u may find you have a moist sandlike substance, the next a goey heap of shit :P

    meth SHOULD come as nice easily seen crystals or "shards" and can vary in colour. clear crystals that look like broken glass are usually the most sort after but dont necessarily mean it is best quality. brown tinged crystals are common looking like stained glass kinda thing. white frosty looking crystals are also common.

    i recently bought some "speed" but after tasting it i knew straight up it was "smokeable speed". after smoking this stuff then some crystal meth later that binge i decided that it was definately cut meth.

    i have once consumed what i believe to be smokeable speed. very small clear crystals, more noticable effects than meth (like speed) and tasted different to meth.

    i believe that if your buying white powder thats said to be smokeable speed you will be getting cut meth.


    and in case anyone dissagrees with me this is all PURE SPECULATION as i cant be bothered pasting sources to this but im sure you can do a search through bluelight aus dd and find many notes to back my statements up


    now to answer your question about wat the cut might be.. after handling what sounds to be the same shit my guess is some kind of binder or fine salt. im not sure wat burning binder looks like but at a guess it would go black and leave ash so chances are some form of salt that would burn cleaner than other white powders.
     

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    #9
    Ex-Bluelighter killarava2day's Avatar
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    MSM dissolves in water, most of the "smokeable" speed out there that turns gluggy in water has been cut with caffeine...
     

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    #10
    Long off-topic rants on the definition of "speed" should be taken to the obvious place (this thread: where the answers are already located)... because the current thread is about meth that won't melt in water.

    BigTrancer
     

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    #11
    Thx guys...I have a feeling that killaraver is onto something with his answer about it being caffine, as if does not taste either salty or sweet. I dont think that there is much of a taste given the fact that the taste of meth is the only thing that I can taste when I put some in my mouth.

    Well....as I said, not many people shoot their speed/meth so it may be that there is a bit of this going around but not many people know it...however it could just be my dealer or his dealer cutting their shit to get a much higher profit, which I think is the most likely of candidates..

    Cheers everyone.
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter mongman's Avatar
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    John Candy: The fact that the cut doesn't dissolve much is probably to your advantage. Meth/amphetamine HCL is very soluble in H2O so maybe its a good chance to remove a potentialy dangerous substance from the powder before you inject it........
     

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    #13
    Bluelight Crew phase_dancer's Avatar
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    If it is caffeine it will dissolve in a larger amount of acetone. From the Merck Index, 1.0 gram will dissolve in 50ml of acetone at room temp. I would suggest 3 washes of 30ml cold acetone per/gram.
     

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    #14
    Long off-topic rants on the definition of "speed" should be taken to the obvious place
    Thats right - especially when they are incorrect. There is essentially no illicit amphetamine sold in Australia. Probably 1%-5% of all seizures. (This is in WA but I doubt the other states would be greatly different) Only time most of us will come across amphetamine is in the form of dexamphetamine sulfate - "dexies".


    I think it is conceivable that it could be anything. Who knows what people are putting in as a cutting agent these days, especially an agent that would perhaps mimic methylamphetamine crystals for smoking. There is huge money to be made in being able to cut down near pure meth and have it still resembling near pure meth.

    I would certainly avoid injecting anything that did not easily and completely dissolve in water. And you should not need to have to dissolve it in hot water either. Who knows where or when it may crystallise out!
     

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    #15
    Bluelighter
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    SPEED (amphetamine) wont smoke unless its in the smokable form which is hcl i think but not sure.. cant be bothered lookin it up atm :P

    try smoking speed and see how fuked that shit is. it will burn before melts/oxidises giving off a dirty choking smoke that is impossible to inhale without coughing your lungs up where as cut meth will burn fine but leave some black residue.

    also.. i think you will find there is plenty of amphetamine around and less meth.
     

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    #16
    ^^ I see what you are saying however I have to agree with biscuit on this one regarding the availability of amphetamine vs methamphetamine.

    I believe that most, if not all speed in Australia is in fact meth, just cut with various agents. The type of speed that you try to smoke and ends up with huge amounts of chokeing black lung wrecking smoke is IMO meth cut with <insert name of cutting agent here> which doesnt burn well and hence this type of meth cannot be smoked...I dont think that it is amphetamine.

    Anyways, this is just an opinion.


    Biscuit:- when you said "Who knows where or when it may crystallise out!"
    Are you trying to say that it may recrystalize in my bloodstream? I dont think that that would be possible would it?

    Cheers.
     

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    #17
    Ex-Bluelighter killarava2day's Avatar
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    ^^ Not when every cell in our body is 80% water, you have fun growing meth crystals on anything that's 80% water...
     

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    #18
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    lol no way man.. maybe where u come from but there is no way anyone with any experience with speed and meth is going to confuse the 2

    meth lasts waaaay longer.. keep me awake for fuking 24 hours minimum after just a point.. usually up to around 30+ and thats CRYSTAL meth as in nice big shardz of high purity shit.

    it doesnt make me jump out of my skin and go all hypo. it just gives me that nice euphoria and alertness and a boost in confidence etc no matter how much of that stuff i smoke i dont end up running backwards and forwards around the room or dancing until i just cant dance no more cause my legs want to drop off.

    speed on the other hand... thats a different story! rack up a couple lineees of that and boom.. have to tie me down to stop me dancing. have me jumping around for fuking hours, sweating like a mofo, rambling utter shit at a million miles an hour. and after a big night out especially if i dance my ass off i can usually get to sleep well before 30hrs later.. sometimes as soon as i get home.

    there is definately a BIG difference.. guess u just dont have any good connections for amphetamine.. only meth im sure many bluelighters will agree with me
     

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    #19
    John Candy:
    The "smokable speed" you have is just impure methamphetamine possible further cut with something. 99.9% sure the stuff that turns to glug pulp is glues and binders from whatever it has been made from. This also burns black and gives the stuff a slight burned sugar taste.

    killarava2day:
    Caffeine, for sure, burns clear(ish) and turns to glug in water... Horrid stuff.
    Very much doubt it as caffeine is soluable in water - not nearly as much as meth, but certainly wouldn't make any glug or whatever. The caffeine you may have seen has also been extracted and had remnants of glues in it.


    drugfuked:
    in Australia we have speed (amphetamine) and Meth (methamphetamine)
    No. Pretty much the only amphetamine you will get in Australia is in the Dexies. Speed and meth reffer to the same thing however if speed is mentioned, the first thing that comes to mind is powder or glug, not shards.

    Speed - Amphetamine

    shorter duration than meth, has more of a body rush than meth (jumping around like a nut) not really something u would want to go to work on if you had a high dose. it would be quite noticable.
    common names - speed, wiz, fizzy stuff
    Correct about the effects except about concentration. Amphetamine is much better for improving concentration than meth. Meth has a very low threshhold unlike amphetamine past which the concentration actually begins to suffer exponentially. Yes, you do get into "the mission from god" phases of mind when you are wired on meth, but that's more of an obsession attribute than concentration attribute.

    Are you trying to say that it may recrystalize in my bloodstream? I dont think that that would be possible would it?
    To put your mind at ease - NO. People do it all the time and with dirtier shittier substances! However, Biscuit's point is 100% correct - if you dissolve something in hot water that doesnt dissolve at room temperature, it will crystalise out. Water insoluable particles usually get stuck in internal organs causing micro-scarring especially liver micro-scarring. This is a perfect example of why my stance has always been against injecting street stuff.

    But, don't freak out - I've seen people shoot all kinds of shit that makes me cringe for years without EVIDENT damage. Take this with you, quit shooting (yeah right) and be more careful.
     

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    #20
    drugfuked: I suggest you do a few searches. There has been many threads on this which have been cleared up.

    The difference you are experiencing may be due to the way you take it. When you eat speed, you get the effects you seem attribute to amphetamine. When you snort it, the effects are also more "hypo" type. When you smoke it or shoot it, the effects are what you describe to be meth.

    Also depends on the dose. Small doses of meth make me hypo. Large doses of meth make me relaxed and "too wasted to even bother to go out cause life is too good no matter where you are anyways".

    Another point to be made is that a lot of people (hopefully not too many by now) seem to associate amphetamine with the stinky stuff - the fruity type smell or dead ants some times. This is merely the by product of a certain means of meth manufacture.
     

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    #22
    Here's an on-topic one:

    Melting is a process of phase change. ie. When a solid becomes a liquid.

    Dissolving on the other hand is a process of dissociation where a substance dissociates into charged particles - usually ions (although lithium can dissolve in ammonia and separate into Li+ and e-)

    So when you add meth to water it DISSOLVES, not MELTS. However when you heat meth to around 275C, it MELTS.
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter Zaineaol's Avatar
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    Okay - being "smokeable" it's most likely cut with caffeine, i get LOADS of smokeable because all the crackwhores want the shit because crystal is rare.

    I had stuff that a mate tried to bang it went gluggy, he got shitty...

    also, on burning meth in the pipe, it melts then it vapourises as opposed to burns no? u inhale vapour, being why it recrystalises when it gets cooler? So it's steam as opposed to smoke.. just would like to clear that up, inform me if im wrong
     

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    #24
    1. Forget caffeine - its nothing to do with it! Why would anyone bother extracting caffeine just for cut when there are plenty of other better things to cut with.

    2. Correct about burning/vaporising terminology however burning is an acceptable term because meth unlike water doesn't just undergo a phase change, but undergoes pyrolysis. I would link to an appropriate place for this but it doesn't exist anymore unfortunatelly. Also burning is usually used in the context "meth burned clear" or "meth burned black" which really refers to the impurities burning or not.
     

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    #25
    Bluelighter ayjay's Avatar
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    ^if it was cut with caffeine tablets, say, that would be easy - just a cost factor compared with cut with glucose powder or somesuch. The trick from the seller's POV is to use a cut that allows the final product to be smoked, but with the same purity of (non-smokeable) powdered speed (say 10% meth, 90% cut); as long as this increases buyer demand, and hence selling price/profits.

    Actually, I wonder if someone has just tried the pseudo- to meth conversion without bothering to remove the binders etc from the original cold tablets. The final result then would probably be smokable, and you've got your cut already in place (speed equivalent of tar heroin?!).

    If you get a gluggy mix when you add water - this is definitely what happens when you try & shoot pills. USE COLD WATER - the meth will dissolve easily and the other crap will be easier to filter out. Use a pill filter if you can get them (5 micron or below) - that will get rid of the pill binders for sure.
     

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