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    MDMA causing serotonin syndrome? 
    #1
    Question
    Just a thought but wouldn't it be possible that MDMA alone could cause serotonin syndrome, and that the chance would be higher with use of 5-htp or SSIR's and other various drugs?

    Here's a general description of serotonin syndrome:

    Serotonin syndrome is a condition that is typically induced by drug interactions from taking more than one drug that affects the serotonergic systems. These interactions cause too much serotonin to be released or remain in the synapse and cause hyperactivation of serotnergic neurons.

    MDMA, 5-HTP, SSIR's and others affect the serotonergic system

    Here's a general description of the symptoms:

    "The symptoms of the serotonin syndrome are: euphoria, drowsiness, sustained rapid eye movement, overreaction of the reflexes, rapid muscle contraction and relaxation in the ankle causing abnormal movements of the foot, clumsiness, restlessness, feeling drunk and dizzy, muscle contraction and relaxation in the jaw, sweating, intoxication, muscle twitching, rigidity, high body temperature, mental status changes were frequent (including confusion and hypomania - a "happy drunk" state), shivering, diarrhea, loss of consciousness and death. (The Serotonin Syndrome, AM J PSYCHIATRY, June 1991)

    I know alot of people who have gotten sick from e and they have had a handful of the symptoms listed.

    Do you think it could be possible that some of the side effects people sometimes get from e or even more seriously some of the deaths could be atributed to serotinin syndrome?
     

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    #2
    If you just look at the symptoms, the MDMA high resembles the serotonin syndrome.... The thing is that the MDMA high is short-lived -- eventually serotonin depletion sets in, and extracellular serotonin levels decline.

    Though rare, cases do seem to exist of serotonin syndrom with MDMA as the sole initiator:
    c.f. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...t_uids=9737504

    The serotonin syndrome normally results from the combined administration of two or more of the following: SSRIs, monoamine releasers and MAOIs .

    The irreversible MAOIs tend to produce the most serious form, though this problem is unlikely to occur these days due to the fact that these drugs are rarely used.

    It should be noted that there are recorded cases of death from moclobemide (a reversible MAOA inhibitor) and MDMA.

    If you take enough pills its certainly a possibility. Though the serotonin release becomes blunted, MDMA inhibits MAOA to some degree, and causes reuptake inhibition. Take enough of it and you're certain to run into problems.
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter Sleaze's Avatar
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    I usually a lot of those symptoms that ObscureDreamer describes.

    I usually go through a "pissed" like state as well, with dizziness and a little unco-ordination.
     

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    #4
    eventually serotonin depletion sets in
    Alot of the people I know take alot of 5-htp near the end of there roll to boost up there serotonin, a few of them took it dring the roll and they went all spacey.
     

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    Re: MDMA causing serotonin syndrome? 
    #5
    Originally posted by ObscureDreamer
    Just a thought but wouldn't it be possible that MDMA alone could cause serotonin syndrome, and that the chance would be higher with use of 5-htp or SSIR's and other various drugs?
    ...
    Do you think it could be possible that some of the side effects people sometimes get from e or even more seriously some of the deaths could be atributed to serotinin syndrome?
    Yes. Overdosing on MDMA almost certainly will cause serotonin syndrome.
     

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    #6
    I'd be inclined not to take more than 100mg of 5-HTP during the high. Certainly makes the comedown more gentle, but if you eat a lot if it you're likely to risk stomach upset, along with (potentially) serotonin syndrome. I've seen people induce mild serotonin syndrome whilst on SSRIs by eating 5-HTP.

    Note: this is NOT something you can do. It's not a high, it feels extremely uncomfortable and weird. It's the farthest thing from a high you could get.
     

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    #7
    I believe that I suffered from some sort of serotonin syndrome during a roll once. It was I'd say around my 4th or 5th roll. I began to feel the come up, was in a good mood, felt good. Then when the peak hit I would go back and forth from feeling great to feeling like something was wrong. I would get hot and start shaking, I'd be thinking I was going to die. About every 5-15 minutes I would ether feel the normal great effects of a roll, or something else. Whatever it was that was wrong with me.

    Everyone else that took the same pills were fine and rolling nicely.
     

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    #8
    Originally posted by kapheen'
    I believe that I suffered from some sort of serotonin syndrome during a roll once. It was I'd say around my 4th or 5th roll. I began to feel the come up, was in a good mood, felt good. Then when the peak hit I would go back and forth from feeling great to feeling like something was wrong. I would get hot and start shaking, I'd be thinking I was going to die. About every 5-15 minutes I would ether feel the normal great effects of a roll, or something else. Whatever it was that was wrong with me.

    Everyone else that took the same pills were fine and rolling nicely.
    This same exact thing has happened to me too. It was around my my 8th or 9th roll., i would be feeling great then out of nowhere i would start to feel like im coming down really hard, more of a coke comedown than ecstasy. These feelings were shortlived though, 5-10 seconds, then id be rolling again. At the time I wondered why it may have done that so I decided to get some 5htp for after, which im sure helped.

    Also, 2 rolls ago it happened to me on my comedown, it was a smooth comedown, but for 10-20 secs i experienced a harsher comedown, but then it went away and the comedown was ok.

    Anyways, it wasnt a good feeling and ive decided to take a 3-6 month break from rolling, its a dangerous thing to fuck with.
     

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    #9
    its a dangerous thing to fuck with.
    Most definately is!
    I used to much and I think I have brain damage (well, feels like it, but I'm sure i don't).
    It is important to take breaks.
     

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    #10
    pure mdma really isn't all that dangerous by itself compared to alcohol and even a lot of prescription drugs. as long as you're not doing it all the time, there really aren't any health risks. and a temporary decrease in serotonin function is not equivalent to brain damage. however, if you feel like mdma is having a negative effect on you, then maybe it is wise to stop for a while, and maybe try to moderate your usage in the future.
     

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    #11
    Originally posted by thursday
    pure mdma really isn't all that dangerous by itself compared to alcohol and even a lot of prescription drugs. as long as you're not doing it all the time, there really aren't any health risks. and a temporary decrease in serotonin function is not equivalent to brain damage. however, if you feel like mdma is having a negative effect on you, then maybe it is wise to stop for a while, and maybe try to moderate your usage in the future.
    Well for the most part not many of us can get pure mdma and end up taking "ecstasy" instead. It's true that with moderation its a pretty safe drug, but once you push your limits you defenitly start to feel the effects. Memory and attention problems is what ive noticed the most.
     

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    #12
    so instead of taking breaks in between drug binges, maybe a more effective way of harm-reduction is to get a test kit, and to not use ecstasy regularly.
     

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    #13
    Originally posted by thursday
    so instead of taking breaks in between drug binges, maybe a more effective way of harm-reduction is to get a test kit, and to not use ecstasy regularly.
    Test kits don't discriminate between MDMA and MDEA, and most people will take the pill anyway if it shows MDA.
     

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    #14
    Originally posted by kapheen'
    I believe that I suffered from some sort of serotonin syndrome during a roll once. It was I'd say around my 4th or 5th roll. I began to feel the come up, was in a good mood, felt good. Then when the peak hit I would go back and forth from feeling great to feeling like something was wrong. I would get hot and start shaking, I'd be thinking I was going to die. About every 5-15 minutes I would ether feel the normal great effects of a roll, or something else. Whatever it was that was wrong with me.

    Everyone else that took the same pills were fine and rolling nicely.
    This happens to many people, and it's not serotonin syndrome... No-one is entirely sure why some pills hit in waves, but its not serotonin syndrome. Perhaps some pill contaminant, or strange absorption pharmacokinetics...?
     

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    #15
    Originally posted by thursday
    so instead of taking breaks in between drug binges, maybe a more effective way of harm-reduction is to get a test kit, and to not use ecstasy regularly.
    True statement, but in the end test kits dont decide what kind of x ill be getting, theyll just tell me whats in it.
     

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    #16
    so if those test kits are so weak are they even worth getting then(if i purchase pills like 10-20 times a year)?
     

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    #17
    They're hardly weak. They may protect you against contaminants which you don't want, especially PMA.

    Additionally if your pills only test positive for meth, I'd return them. Your dealer should have a level of trust with you... he'll be able to sell them to someone else who is ignorant anyway.

    If your dealer won't take them back, you're the one who is losing out because you're knowingly eating shit pills. Time to find a new dealer, I'd say.

    Every one of mine will take pills back if they test bad... No money lost, and they have one satisfied, permenant customer -- me
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter ROLLerskater954's Avatar
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    ^^ i hear what you're saying but not everyone has a friendly neighborhood dealer who is all smiles. just a reflection........
     

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    #19
    my friendly neighborhood dealer has a bunch of tattoos and lots of guns.
     

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