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Do all magic mushrooms bruise blue?

DeathByDefault said:
I donno if its relevent but around here people have to eat about 70 mushrooms just for a mild buzz, and 400 shrooms for some mind blowing visuals.. extremely low potency and i've yet to find any that bruise blue/black ..in fact i was laughed at just for thinking that psilocybes were supposed to bruise! The only documented species here is psilocybe semilanceata..

Then I'm guessing you have fresh mushrooms. Fresh mushrooms are 1/10 as potent as dry mushrooms. If you ever do leave them out to dry.....dont eat as much as you normally do. Or else youll be in for quite a surprise :p
 
DeathByDefault said:
I donno if its relevent but around here people have to eat about 70 mushrooms just for a mild buzz, and 400 shrooms for some mind blowing visuals.. extremely low potency and i've yet to find any that bruise blue/black ..in fact i was laughed at just for thinking that psilocybes were supposed to bruise! The only documented species here is psilocybe semilanceata..

And I don't know what kind of semilanceata you've had. You trip
hard on 50 liberty caps.
 
Oxidation does happen, but it is not noticable in all cases (bruising blue). A prime example of this would be Panaeolus subbalteatus, those who have picked this mushroom will tell you that most of the time this mushroom does not bruise blue.
 
Gymnopilus Spectabilis (Big Lauging Jim)

This is a nicely written anecdote googled from Usenet:

"Entries from my diary

12:32 PM. - While walking in the woods looking for Grifola frondosa, I
come across a curious orange
mushroom growing from the base of a fallen tree. This particular
specimen is a cespitose cluster of light
orange mushrooms. There are about seven or eight mushrooms in the
cluster, with caps varying from an inch
to five inches in diameter. As I kneel to sever the stalks from their
base, my faithful mastiff Cato slobbers
impatiently. At first blush the fungi appear to be either
Jack-o-Lanterns or Honey mushrooms. I nevertheless
throw them into my collection sack for further examination.

2:05 PM - Back in my laboratory, I examine the orange mushrooms more
closely. The cap is narrowly gilled
and the attached gills extend partly down the stipe. There are
evanescent rings, and the stipes are shallowly
striate and thick. I take a spore print to determine whether they are
indeed a somewhat dwarfish version of
Omphalotus illudens. To my surprise, the spore print comes out rusty
orange. I can therefore immediately
eliminate both Armillaria mellea and Omphalotus illudens as potential
candidates since they both have white
spore prints. Reference to my Audubon Society field guide leads me
unerringly to the "Big Laughing Gym",
Gymnopilus spectabilis. All other potential candidates have been
eliminated from consideration.

3:32 PM - I call for a spot of tea and stoke my trusty Meerschaum.

I determine to consult the various authorities on the edibility vel non
of my little find. Most commentators
characterize this mushroom ominously as "toxic" or "poisonous".
Somewhat more lightheartedly, Aurora
relates the apocryphal tale of the elderly woman who accidentally
consumed G. spectabilis. She laughed
and cried uncontrollably. When the authorities came to carry her away
to the hospital, she remarked, "If this is
the way you die from mushroom poisoning, I'm all for it!" I chuckle and
puff on my pipe thoughtfully. Friends
have occasionally intimated that I am singularly lacking in humor.

5:30 PM - The sun has already set. On an ordinary Saturday night, I
would put on a stack of Haydn LPs, pour
myself a sherry and tackle a particularly challenging chess problem.
Tonight, though, I find myself looking
over at the G. spectabilis with an intense curiosity. Prudence indeed
would dictate that I should shun a
fungus so little understood, but I find myself thinking that research
on this mushroom clearly needs to be
done. Science must be served. If the mushroom be toxic, who better to
suffer the ghastly effects than a
confirmed old bachelor like myself? No one would miss me, I muse,
without bitterness. I give Cato an
affectionate stroke behind the ears. "Except you, old boy. Except you."
Cato bites me.

6:10 PM - I am resolved. I will do this thing! Gymnopilus is known to
be very bitter. I slice four carefully
measured ounces of the specimens into a sauce pan and add garlic and
olive oil. I begin to sauté over a low
heat. "Low heat", I faithfully record in my notebook. This is, after
all, science. After sautéing for a few minutes,
I gingerly take a bite of one of the caps. Still bitter. I add a splash
of Madeira to the pan. I do not record the
Madeira in my notebook. "Hardly seems pertinent to the experiment," I
comment to Cato, who seems to
slobber in agreement.

6:25 PM - I spoon the substance onto a plate, place my napkin on my
lap, and purse my lips. I hesitate for a
moment, then cut the largest mushroom into bite-size pieces. I remind
myself that I am doing this for science,
take a quick bite, chew once and then swallow without tasting. I once
made the mistake of going to a sushi
bar, and this same technique served me well. In a few minutes I am
done. I pat my mouth with my napkin,
pour myself a claret, and retire to the study.

6:45 PM - Nothing out of the ordinary has occurred.

6:50 PM - Still nothing. Could I have misidentified the species?

7:03 PM - I am beginning to feel quite peculiar. My mind seems to have
become unshackled. A pleasant - or
is it unpleasant? -sensation seems to be traveling up and down my
spine. There is a sense of inebriation, yet
I have only had one glass of claret. I feel as though I am floating. I
record my sensations in my notebook and
notice that my penmanship has deteriorated markedly since my last
entry.

I am not normally a talkative man, but I find myself wanting to work
the muscles of my lips and tongue. I call
my brother, whom I have not spoken to in years, and engage him in a
long and cordial chat. He is wary at
first, but seems to respond to my uncharacteristic warmth. I bid him
adieu and find myself inviting him and his
wife, whom I despise, to visit. The phone rings. It is a gentleman
seeking donations for my alma mater. We
come to an immediate rapport based on the fact that he apparently once
lived in the dormitory next to my old
dormitory. I realize that it has been some years since I have properly
recognized that fine institution. I agree
to donate a thousand dollars to the scholarship fund. The gentleman
rings off quickly before we have
exhausted the subject of old Bentley Hall. I find myself casting about
for other people to call.

8:00 PM - I decide to experiment with television viewing. Tingling
slightly, I turn on a rerun of the Dick van
Dyke Show. I had always enjoyed the program in my youth, but never
before had I appreciated the sheer
genius of its comic enterprise. I find each gag side-splittingly funny;
I am literally gasping for air and crying at
the virtuoso wit. Morey Amsterdam! How had I missed his perfect gift
for timing? Mary Tyler Moore? A pure
artist! Thankfully, the show ends before my gut ruptures.

I begin to think of a joke I once heard George Gobel tell. A clerk is
asking him how he spells his name. "Is
that Gobel with a "G"?" "That's right," says Gobel, "we used to spell
it with an "F", but people kept calling us
Fobel."

For some reason I cannot get this old joke out of my head, and so
hilarious does it seem every time I tell it to
myself that I cannot control the tears of laughter pouring down my
cheeks. Cato is looking at me as though I
am quite mad.

10:15 PM - I take Cato out for a walk. It feels good to breathe the
cool air and look at the moon. I have an
interesting insight into a relationship that I once had. I see clearly
now that my old flame was intimidated by
my superior intelligence. That had caused her to dump me. At the time,
it had appeared to be her secret
infatuation with the man who is now her husband. I decide to write a
letter to her explaining exactly what
went wrong with our relationship. I feel certain that once the reality
is pointed out to her, she will come
running back.

12:00 midnight - I have no appetite whatsoever. The mushroom seems to
have removed any desire for food
or, for that matter, any other sensual pleasures. There have been no
"psychedelic" symptoms. No colors
pulsating, no shapes changing, nothing like that. The effect is
entirely cerebral. It might have been nice to do
this with another member of the mycological association, I think, since
there is so much to think and talk
about. I find the roster of MAW phone numbers and begin calling people;
most of them seem strangely
groggy, irritated, and uninterested in chatting. Could there be a bug
going around?

3:00 AM - I cannot sleep. My mind is still racing madly. I believe I
conceived of the basis for a new religion a
few minutes ago, but now I seem to have forgotten it.

4:00 AM - Sleep at last.

10:00 AM - I awake refreshed. I know what I must do. I must develop a
decent recipe for Gymnopilus
spectabilis. "
 
fizzacyst said:
By reference i meant journal material, or at the least something not posted by a random unverifiable net user.


Your argument seems valid at this point. I tried finding a valid entry about G. Spectabilis but came up short even after I tried PMing MJshroomer and GGreatone at the shroomery for that info. (so far no, replies)

This has opened the doors of new interest for me concerning G.Spectabilis. I still stand firmly behind the effects this mushrooms has brought to me and my friend so placebo is definitely out of the question.

so what is the mystery component within G.Spectabilis?

other possible species that are active but does not bruise blue.

panaeolus foenisecii
Psilocybe Coprophila
 
I was under the impression that detection of tryptamines in panaeolus foenisecii were, at best, erratic, with many samples of fruiting bodies having no trace.

That being said though, I seem to recall reading quite a few reports of small children grazing the mushrooms and having repeated attacks of hallucinations which stopped after the kids were prevented from going where the fungus grew.

On the matter of blueing, does psilocybe baeocystis blue significantly?
from what I have seen there isn't any significant blueing, the fungus looking more like an inocybe species than a psilocybe, I have not had the opportunity to handle one of these in person though.

Also, I believe certain species of inocybe, and mycaena contain tryptamine alkaloids, although to what extent i am unsure, I have most certainly never read a report of their recreational use.
 
Originally posted by soul
Your argument seems valid at this point. I tried finding a valid entry about G. Spectabilis but came up short even after I tried PMing MJshroomer and GGreatone at the shroomery for that info. (so far no, replies)

This has opened the doors of new interest for me concerning G.Spectabilis. I still stand firmly behind the effects this mushrooms has brought to me and my friend so placebo is definitely out of the question.
...


If you hear anything back from MJShroomer, please post info here.

Are you certain it was G. spectabilis that you ate? I'm not saying you're full of crap or anything, but even 5g dried seems like it would be a light dose. I thought I saw somewhere that 100+g (wet, making it about 3-5x or so weaker than p. cubensis) was needed to get effects. It could have been something else, though. I can't find any information on it. Nothing solid anyway. And there is always a slight (very) possibility you ate a mutated or otherwise far more potent specimen. It happens.

I'm under the impression that it is the oxidation of psilocin that causes the bluing. Someone please correct me if that is wrong. If that is the case, its possible that some species of mushrooms have miniscule or no psilocin, but still produce psilocybin. This sounds most plausible to me. P. azurescens has a relatively large amount of psilocin, and they blue extremely dark.

This is all I found by MJshroomer, and its not exactly helpful:
large amount

EDIT:
Just came across this:
DOSAGE FOR WOOD CHIP SPECIES
Psilocybe australiana Gymnopilus spectabilis, now considered a synonym of Gymnopilus junonius requires a dosage of 4 to 8 fresh ounces (112-224 gm fresh). According to mycologist Roy Watling, the Australian `form' is probably Subs. pampeanus. However, this mushroom is very bitter and it is most likely not consumed in Australia for recreational use.
 
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fizzacyst said:

Are you certain it was G. spectabilis that you ate? I'm not saying you're full of crap or anything, but even 5g dried seems like it would be a light dose. I thought I saw somewhere that 100+g (wet, making it about 3-5x or so weaker than p. cubensis) was needed to get effects. It could have been something else, though. I can't find any information on it. Nothing solid anyway. And there is always a slight (very) possibility you ate a mutated or otherwise far more potent specimen. It happens.

i'm pretty sure what i had and consumed was the genuine thing, i remember spending hours taking a spore print , cutting the stem to see if it was hollow (it was) and looking for a bruising color (orange red)
before i decided to consume some of it.

nothing will convince you fizzycast of the effects G spectabilis can bring ,unless you go out and find the specimen and bioessay it yourself, (highly recommended) maybe then you will see the truth in my words.

the only thing that's missing in our rapport about G. Spectabilis (north east) is your experience with them which i believe would change the way you feel about them.

the come up from the species definitely feels like a psylocybin high so i wouildn'y be surprised if psylocybin in indeed present in this specie. I would be definitely startled if the shroom contained something else.
 
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I have spent 2 years now stomping around the woods in several east coast states and have yet to locate any gyms. I have found so many other types of mushrooms in my hunt, and have become somewhat of an enthusiast, but so far no luck on the big laughing ones...oh well, keep on keeping on.
 
According to the article in LLoydia that I cited a while back:
Very little is known about the phytochemistry of G. Spectabilis and other members of the genus. Hatfield and Brandy reported the isolation of bis-noryangonin [4-hydroxy-6-(4-hydrostyryl)-2-pyrone] and hispidine [4-hydroxy-6-(3,4-dihydroxystyryl)-2-pyrone] from several Gynopilus species including G. spectabilis. There stytylpyrones are structurally related to the alpha-pyrones found in kava, an intoxicating beverage prepared from Piper methylsticum. However, it is doubtful that the fungal pyrones contribute to the purported hallucinogenic activity of G. spectabilis. Bis-noryangonin was recetnyl tested for hallucinogenic activity and was found to be inactive up to a dose of 50mg/kg in rats (he cited personal commuinication with EF Domino, professor of Pharmacology, University of Michigan).

It is interesting to note that both bis-noryangonin and hispidin give an indole like chromophore with Ehrlich's reagen (tlc). This fact may have lead to reports that indole derivatives other than psilocybin were present in G. Spectabilis.

Following the discovery of psilocybin in G. validipes, a number of collections of G spectabilis were screened from the presence of this compound. The screening procedure involved methanol extraction of dried carpophores at toom temperature followed by ion exchnage chromatrography and tlc analysis for psilocybin. The minimum detectable concentration of psilocybin in dired mushrooms was found to be 0.0004%. Below this level the presence of psilocybin would be toxicologically insignificant. A total of 13 collections were screened and, of these, four were found to contain psilocybin. Thus, it appears that this compound is respondible for the hallucinogenic effects reported for this species.

The inconsistent occurrence of psilocybin in G. spectabilis samples assayed may in part be due to the age of some of the collections (up to 21 years). However this is probably not the only factor involved since psilocybin has been found to be quite stable in dried herbarium samples. Leug found psilocybin is a Psilocybe collection over 25 years olf, and in the present study a Gymnopilus sample collection in 1950 contained psilocybin.

Another explanation of these results is that two or more subspecies of G. Spectabilis may exist which vary in ther ability to produce psilocybin. Sanfound has proposed this to reconcile the purported difference between Japanses (hallucinogenic) and European (nonhallucinogenic) G. spectabilis. If this is the case for this species in the United States, the psilocybin containing strains may be more prevaklent in the East. Four of eight collections from Ohio, michigan, Massachusetts , and Ontario were found to contain psilocybin, wheras none of those from the west were positive. This distribution coincides with the reports of Gymnopilis intoxication which have occured in Massachusetts, Michigan and Ohio. Inconsistent occurance of psilocybin within a spcies has also been noted in the genus Panaeolus. Further chemotaxonomic studies will be necessary to clarify this situation.


They go on to say that Gymnopilis Luteus, validipes, aeruginosus and viridans also contain psilocybin.
 
2 things needed

I read this a long time ago, so there might be the odd inaccuracy, but the main theme I remember fairly clearly.

To get the blue colour found in said fungi, it's not enough to simply have psilocin present. There also has to be an enzyme present (for sake of arguement call it:- psilocin oxidase - as I can't remember the actual enzyme's name), which in the oxidation process somehow oxidizes the psilocin (my bet - at the 4OH group), and the products combine to produce an intensly coloured compound similar in structure ti the isatin dyes (isatin is an indole deriv, of sorts).

But I don't know what purpose the blue compound serves when th fungus is injured
 
By that logic, if you bruised a shroom, it would get less potent... unless metabolism broken the coloured compound up...
 
CatfishRivers said:
I have spent 2 years now stomping around the woods in several east coast states and have yet to locate any gyms. I have found so many other types of mushrooms in my hunt, and have become somewhat of an enthusiast, but so far no luck on the big laughing ones...oh well, keep on keeping on.

try finding them in your local park with a small lake (usually parks with small lakes in the vivinity have enough woods to search with., i usually find them locally (city parks)

btw one other find was at the backyard (on the base of a pine tree) was at my friends house in great barrington Mass.


good luck finding them :)
 
BilZ0r said:
According to the article in LLoydia that I cited a while back:
Very little is known about the phytochemistry of G. Spectabilis and other members of the genus. Hatfield and Brandy reported the isolation of bis-noryangonin [4-hydroxy-6-(4-hydrostyryl)-2-pyrone] and hispidine [4-hydroxy-6-(3,4-dihydroxystyryl)-2-pyrone] from several Gynopilus species including G. spectabilis. There stytylpyrones are structurally related to the alpha-pyrones found in kava, an intoxicating beverage prepared from Piper methylsticum. However, it is doubtful that the fungal pyrones contribute to the purported hallucinogenic activity of G. spectabilis. Bis-noryangonin was recetnyl tested for hallucinogenic activity and was found to be inactive up to a dose of 50mg/kg in rats (he cited personal commuinication with EF Domino, professor of Pharmacology, University of Michigan).

It is interesting to note that both bis-noryangonin and hispidin give an indole like chromophore with Ehrlich's reagen (tlc). This fact may have lead to reports that indole derivatives other than psilocybin were present in G. Spectabilis.

Following the discovery of psilocybin in G. validipes, a number of collections of G spectabilis were screened from the presence of this compound. The screening procedure involved methanol extraction of dried carpophores at toom temperature followed by ion exchnage chromatrography and tlc analysis for psilocybin. The minimum detectable concentration of psilocybin in dired mushrooms was found to be 0.0004%. Below this level the presence of psilocybin would be toxicologically insignificant. A total of 13 collections were screened and, of these, four were found to contain psilocybin. Thus, it appears that this compound is respondible for the hallucinogenic effects reported for this species.

The inconsistent occurrence of psilocybin in G. spectabilis samples assayed may in part be due to the age of some of the collections (up to 21 years). However this is probably not the only factor involved since psilocybin has been found to be quite stable in dried herbarium samples. Leug found psilocybin is a Psilocybe collection over 25 years olf, and in the present study a Gymnopilus sample collection in 1950 contained psilocybin.

Another explanation of these results is that two or more subspecies of G. Spectabilis may exist which vary in ther ability to produce psilocybin. Sanfound has proposed this to reconcile the purported difference between Japanses (hallucinogenic) and European (nonhallucinogenic) G. spectabilis. If this is the case for this species in the United States, the psilocybin containing strains may be more prevaklent in the East. Four of eight collections from Ohio, michigan, Massachusetts , and Ontario were found to contain psilocybin, wheras none of those from the west were positive. This distribution coincides with the reports of Gymnopilis intoxication which have occured in Massachusetts, Michigan and Ohio. Inconsistent occurance of psilocybin within a spcies has also been noted in the genus Panaeolus. Further chemotaxonomic studies will be necessary to clarify this situation.


They go on to say that Gymnopilis Luteus, validipes, aeruginosus and viridans also contain psilocybin.

this was a very interesting read for me, for i was able to relate to some of the things written in this citation. thanks :)
 
fizzacyst said:
Do you have a reference for that?

If that is the case, its probably because there is such a small amount of active chemical in it, distributed throughout a large mushroom. You have to eat a fairly large amount of them to get any effect, and I definately wouldn't consider them 'very much active'. They also taste terrible. I wouldn't consider them worthy of being eaten. They are, however, pretty cool looking.

Edit: Not trying to be an ass.... there is just lots of mushroom misinformation.

after randomly walking into a bookstore and checking out the drug section today, i think i might have finally found a valid reference to G.spectabilis and its psylocybin containing properties.

on page 183 (psilocybin mushrooms of the world) paul stamets cites hatfield et al 1978 that G.spectabilis does contain psylocibin which varies in amounts. The active compound seems to be absent in europe but in the NE and japan it is present.
 
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Ok, i'm gonna try some "jims" i think i found. But here's one for you shroomers, i found these big purple mushys they are covered in a slime or mucas and the big one i found was purple right through the stem. Well being the skitzo i ate the stem and a peice of the top. It was thick and heavy. Going black on top of the one i ate, and i ate a little greeny blue cap of of one that i found in the same patch. I ate them like 4 hours ago and nothing. I'm still alive however. I found these in walsend, Newcastle, Australia. If you search for the color mushroom, you'll find purple and blue pics but not like the ones i found. Any help would be good. I found like 10 species and some big f*ckers that just looked deadly. Please help me!
 
Ok, i'm gonna try some "jims" i think i found. But here's one for you shroomers, i found these big purple mushys they are covered in a slime or mucas and the big one i found was purple right through the stem. Well being the skitzo i ate the stem and a peice of the top. It was thick and heavy. Going black on top of the one i ate, and i ate a little greeny blue cap of of one that i found in the same patch. I ate them like 4 hours ago and nothing. I'm still alive however. I found these in walsend, Newcastle, Australia. If you search for the color mushroom, you'll find purple and blue pics but not like the ones i found. Any help would be good. I found like 10 species and some big f*ckers that just looked deadly. Please help me!

1: You're an idiot
2: Mushrooms that arent identified by an experienced mushy hunter should not be eaten.
3: Mushrooms wont kill you in 4 hrs. Usually, if a mushroom is poisonous, you will drop dead 3days to 4 weeks later, depending which type. Usually from organ failure(liver, kidneys)
4: There is species of purple mushroom that are deadly.
5: Try not to bad buzz on it too much, it probably wasnt deadly.. but then again maybe.
 
Bad idea friend. NEVER EAT WILD SHROOMS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING! And you dont.8o
 
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