Opium Poppy (Papaver somniferum) cultivation

[Captain Brewster]

quite an important question for all you poppy head.. rachiem (sp?) made an interesting post on the subject in the last page or two but its disappeared...?

when growing for the sheer purpose of making pod juice, and mabey attempting an cooked flake extraction, whens the best time to harvest the pods for maximum alkaloids? last season I waited till they were fully ready (vents open) before harvesting but Im sort under the impression that the alkaloids are at their peak when the pods are pre-mature? as this seasons pods seem weaker than the last and I swear rachiem (sp) mentions that its a waste to wait till the vents open up at full mature..

can someone experienced shed some light on this? thanks in advance

I think you'll find some of rachiem (sp) posts on page 4, I'm also curious about this.

 

[Nozphexezora]

I think its ridiculous you can go to jail for growing a natural plant that you 'might' use for personal medicine. Why? So the pharmacy companies don't lose money?

That poor man was just minding his own business trying to get on with his life the only way he thought possible and gets to go to jail for what!

Naturalistic fallacy. Something being natural doesn't mean it's any better than that which is synthetic or semi-synthetic. But I see your point in saying that it's like saying God fucked up.

 

[justsayknow]

^Its the original badboy. The Poppy and the Opium it produces are the reason that drugs started being banned back in the day, on a global level anyway.

 

[JeanJM]

Oh I didn't mean because something is natural that its safe but I feel like I should be able to utilized what nature has to offer instead of I guess going through a corporation? How do I put this...'be one with nature' no that sounds weird. We humans should we choose to can live off the land and use what nature has to offer without having to get permission from some government/business?

Like if I want access to Marijuana/Morphine/psychedelics I'm not allowed to even though its right there in nature? Because profits could be lost?
I'm probably not getting what I actually want to get across because its hard for me to type my explanation.

 

[opi8]

Why so ille-gal?

 

[justsayknow]

Oh I didn't mean because something is natural that its safe but I feel like I should be able to utilized what nature has to offer instead of I guess going through a corporation? .

I agree that its ridiculous that people can go to jail for a plant but I don't think it happens that often with the Poppy unless there is evidence of milking/preparation of opium or morphine. I would like to see the cases where people have been prosecuted and the circumstances as you seem to hear of one every few years. I wouldn't like to be on the receiving end of that law though...

 

[Nozphexezora]

^Its the original badboy. The Poppy and the Opium it produces are the reason that drugs started being banned back in the day, on a global level anyway.

Opium wars, right?

Jean I agree with you to some extent. Sometimes I wish I could just rely on the environment that is nature instead of a synthetic concrete jungle that man has made around me. But then I remember that the world we create offers a lot more in terms of knowledge and discovery.

If you're really determined, go to the Amazon forest

 

[JeanJM]

But if I wanted to go and live somewhere in the forest and grow my opium poppies I could/would most likely be sent to jail if discovered. Even though I was not hurting anyone and was just being a hermit.

 

[justsayknow]

Opium wars, right?

Yeah greedy Englishmen seem to blame mostly, making sure there was a constant supply flowing at all times. I'm sure if it were seasonal and small amounts it might not be so much of a public health concern.

 

[spacejunk]

^ agreed.

 

[pisspotnrock]

I think you'll find some of rachiem (sp) posts on page 4, I'm also curious about this.

yeah I just read it (although it wasnt the post I was referring to) and it is an excellent post by rachamim which may have answered my question although its relating to scoring pods for raw latex apposed to harvesting for making 'tea'.. ohwell, guess theres only one real way to find out, eh?

Growing is quite simple depending upon your locale.

For the poster asking about the possibility of growing in the tropics... It is quite possible to grow in tropical environments if one utilises the proper variety and compensates for the heavy precipitation depending upon the season. The variety is super-important because after rosetting the plant needs longer nights for proper morphine formation. Usually people grow in the tropics, have fabulous results but when they harvest they net terrible yields with very poor morphine content.

Ideally you want granular soil with at least 70% moisture content and a pH of 6.5 to 7.5. For fertiliser, I will give the commercial values and any interested parties can do the math to adjust the numbers since I am pretty sure that noone here is considering planting at least a hectare.

Per hectare, prior to sowing, fully till 30 tonnes of manure topped with 90 kilos of granulated phosphate. The only other fertiliser will be applied at rosetting. At that point spread a double stratum of nitrogen and potash at a ratio of 105:70 kgs per hectare (for every hectare lay 105 kg of nitrogen, 70 of potash). This will boost your opium harvest by 30% so it is well worth the effort.

You need 3 kilos of seed per hectare. First, coat your seed with mercuran and then mix the seed with 3 kg of fine sand. Usually commercial growers till in rows 72 cm apart to leave room for irrigation machinery but in my case I broadcast seed (though it makes for a lot more expence to have labourers thin by hand square meter by meter). The mecuran will protect your seedlings from common disease, etc and the sand helps it to broadcast evenly, especially if there is any wind about.

From the point of sowing you just need to retain that minimal moisture content of 70% but when the spout they have to be watched. At their 2nd set of true leaves (plants have "baby leaves" much as humans have "baby teeth) they need to be thinned to 160K per hectare. Their 2nd (their last) thinning takes place after their 5th set of true leaves has fully opened and you want a final density of 110K per hectare.

From that 2nd thinning you just wait for rosetting to spread that nitrogen and potash and then cut back your irrigation for a moisture content of 50%. If yoy have above 50% at this point you leech out whatever morphine has been produced and stem formation of new morphine.

When your pods naturally drop their last leaves you need to wait 1 week and then begin walking your field(s) to observe their appearance. Each pod has a corona (crown) sitting atop it. As the plant grows the corona lays flat but between 7 and aeaw days AFTER that last petal drops the corone will become erect. At the same time there will be a change in colour to a bluish-green, and above the stem on the bottom of the actual pod there will be a faint beige ring that is only visible to the naked eye. When those 3 attributes are present the pod is at technical ripeness and needs to be lanced. If you wait just 48 hours you lose nearly 10% of your morphine. Wait 84 hours (1 week) and you lode 30% and it continues to decrease literally by the hour.

Generally you get 3 decent harvests off of each pod, with each lancing 48 hours apart. A lot of people believe its best to cut laye in the day but they are actually wrong. Optimally you want to lance betwen 12PM and 6PM. Then, brgin harvesting (collecting) at 5AM. 1 adult can handle 1/5th of a hectare per day so plan accordingly.

A poster said that commercial growers let the plant dry before harvesting. That is only true in Tasmania. Because of labour costs related to both their huge crops as well as Tasmania's isolated location it doesn't pay to manually harvest. There is also the additional factor of the Tasmanian Co-op aiming for thebaine and codeine (as opposed to morphine). If you aren't trying to net morphine manually harvesting is counter-productive. Letting the plants dry on the stock simplifies mechanical harvesting. They then do a whole-plant extraction very similar to the Kabay Process (aka Hungarian Method).

Their yields are a lot lower that way but because it gains cost-effectiveness in terms of labour it is well worth it. I have to add that they make a pretty penny by aiming for alkaloids other than morphine. Usually, codeine isn't obtained naturally. They methylate morphine to net codeine which drives the price of the alkaloud up. Whole-plant extraction bypasses the conversion. Thebaine is only present in miniscule concentrations and so utilising traditional methods don't render its production especially lucrative. Aside from whole-plant extraction the Co-op has a trademarked variety (actually 3) that have only negligible morphine content but do have astronomically high thebaine concentrations.

For the poster who said Persian White poppies have the highest morphine content, no, not true. It isn't even a variety per se. It is a marketing gimmick like companies that label Kratom as "Bali," etc. In reality the label means nothing.

The highest concentration, on average (as well as highest ever recorded) was a variety named "ZL29499," produced in the former Yugoslavia in a university programme. While the average in all varieties hovers around the 10th percentile, this variety topped out at 28%. Iranian and Afghan varieties are low producers.

 

[JeanJM]

So its not true Tasmania poppies have higher content?

 

[pisspotnrock]

So its not true Tasmania poppies have higher content?

higher or highest? Im pretty sure tassies would have the highest morphaine alkaloids in comparison to anything else BLer's would be able to source but I guess I cant speak for everyone...

hows your garden goin by the way? have you sowed your seeds yet? also, out of curiosity, when did your neighbor recommend is the best time to sow seeds over in NZ? I'm assuming it would be much the same as Aus.

 

[JeanJM]

My garden is looking fab!! . I've been digging it up making the soil really nice and added some stems because it gets windy here, also need to keep it spacious. They like space to grow. He told me to lay the seeds at the end of Winter because of the frost we get here. I've got many types of poppies, White Persian, Mauve, Tasmanian, Giganteum and the Black/Red type. Need to keep the earth quite moist apparently and he just handed me 100 dried poppy pods of Giganteum/Tasmanians. I'm wondering if I should plant each colour separately or all together.

I've never done something which creates so much joy as creating a garden. Even my Mum is helping out lol

 

[JeanJM]

Also I'm a little scared as to how many pods I should be using since I'm sensitive to opiates in general. I'm paranoid I'm going to over do it.

 

[JeanJM]

Can I ask a weird question for someone who might know. If you score the pod and wait a few hours for the latex to turn brown, would you get high if you licked/ate it?

 

[Halif]

^hahah.. hell yes!

If the sap is potent and you get enough of it, that's about as good as it gets. Fresh latex off Tassie pods can have a spicy taste as well as being extremely bitter and the resultant high is absolutely sublime.

 

[JeanJM]

Gross imagine the taste O.O The taste from pods is disgusting!

 

[oldirtybizza]

You don't have to even wait for the latex to dry , just lance wait a few and then start licking, poppy lollipops. you should feel pretty damn good. taste depends on variety but I agree with Halif on the tassies and other potent strains to be quite spicy almost burning, aka alkaloids are delicious.
BTW , This behaviour of licking your backyard plants may seem strange to your non opiate using friends!

Also I'm a little scared as to how many pods I should be using since I'm sensitive to opiates in general. I'm paranoid I'm going to over do it.

As far as dosage goes I think i posted earlier regarding harvesting,drying and standardising your pods. No one here could safely tell you exactly how many pods to take since the pod size and alkaloid content varies hugely for strain, nitrogen content, time of harvest etc. and of course your own tolerance.

I would recommend taking a seedless dried pod with about 5" of stem that would be the average sized pod for your crop and weighing it, note this value . this will allow you to better calculate dosage.
Pulverise and mix all your dried pods to standardise the alkaloid content, then measure out equivalent to the weight of one pod, make your initial tea and see how you feel , adjust future dosages by gradually modifying this value.
Start low, Go Slow, have a uniform potency and the means to measure your dosage and you will be fine.
remember some people are affected by some opiates more than others, eg. having a very high tolerance for pods but not for Oxy.

 

[opi8]

You people are monsters! Don't lick the pods or even eat the dried opium. Put 'em in caps, or at the very leasts, parachute them with something that prevents your taste buds from touching the foul tasting, god's gift to the earth.