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    doing codeine cold water extraction effectively 
    #1
    Flask
    I bought a pack of Nurofen plus & put all 24 pills into a small glass.
    I then added 40mL of fairly hot, but not boiling water from the tap into the glass. I thought the hot water would help the pills desolve.

    1. At what temperature does water kill Codeine?

    2. How much water should I use for 24 Nurofen plus pills?

    I know they contain 200mg of Ibuprofen and 12.8mg of codeine but I don't know how many mg of binder but it takes up almost half the pill so I'm assuming the whole pill would weigh about 400mg.

    3. Is Ibuprofen less soluble in cold water than paractemol?

    The hot water only helped the pills dessolve a bit so I helped it by crushing it all up with a spoon till there were no lumps left.
    I put it in the freezer for 15 mins, then stired it once, then put it in for another 15 mins.
    I took it out & the mixture was all gooey & there didnt seem to be any liquid at all so I added another 20mL of water & put it back in the freezer because I wanted it to be at a point where I could see the liquid seperated from the solid.

    4. If I was to take it out & It was all liquid I'd obviously have to leave it in longer but because it was gooey was it ready to be taken out?

    I took it out 15 mins later & there was a small bit of liquid up the top & below it was just solid stuff.

    5. Is it best to wait till u can see the liquid seperated from the solid?
    Does the Ibuprofen need more time to settle at the bottom after I've seen the seperation?
    I mean it would be easier to filter if the liquid was seperated & the whole mixture wasnt just gooey.

    I poured the liquid on top into another glass not using a filter & none of the sold stuff went in.

    6. I'm assuming most people do this?

    I than poured the solid stuff over a filter & stired it around the top with a spoon for a while.

    7. How long should I leave it on top of the filter?

    Some liquid came out but only about 20% of what a orininally poured in from the liquid up the top.

    8. Does this sound right to you?

    I drank the water and it tasted like lemon
    It tasted good which is making me wonder that maybe Im not getting as much codeine as possible out.
    I know I got all the ibufrofen out because the liquid tasted completely different from the solid stuff but im thinking that I didnt get all 300mg and I don't know why.

    Any comments? thanks
     

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    #2
    I havenít done this so I can only assume it would work, however ill be happy for p_d to correct me. Ibuprofen is not soluble in water, but codeine is. This is very handy if you want to separate ibuprofen from codeine. This allows you to crush up all the tablets into a cold distilled water solution where the codeine will dissolve into the solution where the ibuprofen will not. Then use filter paper to filter out the solid ibuprofen, and let the water/codeine solution evaporate to leave the codeine. MCC (binder) is also insoluble in water so you shouldnít be left with any of that either.

    edit: updated codine MSDS to codine phosphate. refer to Big Trancer's post for additional information.

    Paracetamol: MSDS

    Appearance:
    White powder or granules.
    Odor:
    Odorless.
    Solubility:
    ca. 1.1 g/100g water @ 25C (77F).

    Specific Gravity:
    ca. 1.29
    pH:
    No information found.
    % Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
    No information found.
    Boiling Point:
    Not applicable.
    Melting Point:
    ca. 170C (ca. 338F)
    Vapor Density (Air=1):
    No information found.
    Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
    No information found.
    Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
    No information found.



    Ibuprofen: MSDS

    Appearance:
    White to off-white crystalline solid.
    Odor:
    Characteristic fruity odor.
    Solubility:
    Relatively insoluble in water; soluble in most organic solvents.

    Bulk Density:
    ca. 0.4 gm/cc
    pH:
    No information found.
    % Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
    No information found.
    Boiling Point:
    No information found.
    Melting Point:
    75 - 77C (167 - 171F)
    Vapor Density (Air=1):
    No information found.
    Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
    < 1
    Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
    No information found.



    Codeine Phosphate: MSDS
    Appearance:
    Fine to coarse white crystalline powder.
    Odor:
    Odorless.
    Solubility:
    Soluble in water.

    Specific Gravity:
    No information found.
    pH:
    No information found.
    % Volatiles by volume @ 21C (70F):
    No information found.
    Boiling Point:
    No information found.
    Melting Point:
    220 - 235C (428 - 455F)
    Vapor Density (Air=1):
    No information found.
    Vapor Pressure (mm Hg):
    No information found.
    Evaporation Rate (BuAc=1):
    No information found.

    Last edited by Cowboy Mac; 24-03-2004 at 05:34.
     

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    #3
    Bluelighter
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    arent these the pills that just split in half, one half codeine the other ibuprofen
     

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    #4
    ^^ the marquis results seem to suggest that. An extraction is going to be better/safer however (especially if you are using high doses), as there still may be some ibuprofen in the N+ side.
     

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    #5
    Bluelight Crew phase_dancer's Avatar
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    Excellent work Cowboy Mac. (Sex)(On)(X) you may find the following links to be of interest.


    A Merck Index or Chemical Rubber Company Hand book (CRC) should give you specific solubility properties of each substance.
    Last edited by phase_dancer; 05-04-2009 at 06:38. Reason: one link dead, the other superfluous
     

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    #6
    OT: I think you can split N+ in half to separate ibuprofen from codeine anyway...

    With regards to the solubility of ibuprofen, I have these figures:
    Code:
    Solubility of miscellaneous substances in 100ml of pure water
    Name              31įC water    21įC water 
    Aspirin                1g          0.33g 
    Ibuprofen             <1g            <1g 
    Paracetamol         1.43g          0.66g 
    Codeine            43.48g        142.86g
    [REF: The Codeine Information - courtesy of Desox]
    I'm not sure why the reference in Cowboy Mac's post says 0.8g in 100g water for codeine. The Codeine FAQ at Erowid and several other internet sites quotes the solubility of codeine as "1g in 2.3mL water @31C" and "1g in 0.7mL water @21C", which closely matches those figures from the Codeine Information page. I guess the inference is that they are discussing codeine phosphate as is found in a majority of tablets one might want to use for cold water extraction.

    From Chemfinder.cambridgesoft.com:
    Codeine Phosphate [52-28-8]

    Synonyms: (5alpha,6alpha)-7,8-didehydro-4,5-epoxy-3-methoxy-17-methylmorphinan-6-ol phosphate (1:1) (salt) hemihydrate; 7,8-didehydro-4,5-alpha-epoxy-3-methoxy-17-methyl-morphinan-6-alpha-ol phosphate (1:1); Codeine phosphate;

    Formula: C18 H24 N O7 P
    CAS Number: 52-28-8
    ACX Number: X1008233-2

    Appearance: Small colorless crystals or white crystalline powder
    Molecular Weight: 397.36386
    Melting Point: 220 - 235 C

    Water solubility: >=10 g/100 mL at 16 C
    This makes me lean more toward the figures listed in the FAQs (although 1g per 0.7mL is significantly more than 10g/100mL). I don't think we'll go far wrong in assuming codeine phosphate is far more soluble than paracetamol or ibuprofen in cold water. After all, this is why the cold water extraction does work.

    BigTrancer
    Attached Images Attached Images
     

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    #7
    from the cold water extractions ive tried codeine dont taste to bad. Ive tried N+ sides. It's a hassle to break 24 in half & to pop all of them & they taste absolutely horrible. Im assuming its the binder that tastes so bad.
    Id rather drink a small amount of bitter water. I rekon that binder stuff adds to stomach problems & to feeling sick.
    anyway I can do the cold water extraction. It works but I dont think im getting all the codeine out. Im certainly getting rid of all the other crap which is the main thing.
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
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    Adelaide South Australia
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    Excuse my lack of knowledge but ...ummm and you do this because??
     

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    #9
    So you can take codeine by itself.

    Most OTC products have something else in them, paracetemol or in this case ibuprofen. If you take the amount of pills needed to get an effect from the codeine your also taking a large amount of the other ingredient

    ie:

    one pill contains 500mg paracetemol, 8mg of codeine

    you want to dose to 60mg (7.5 pills) of codeine you also would be taking 3750mg paracetemol, not good.

    I assume its also not good to take large amounts of ibuprofen

    plus the added benefit of losing the binder
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter
    Join Date
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    Location
    Adelaide South Australia
    Posts
    137
    What does the codeine do to you? Are the effects similar to other drugs,
     

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    #11
    it is an opiate

    http://www.erowid.org/pharms/codeine/codeine_faq.shtml

    good ol erowid...
     

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    #12
     

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    #13
    Sex on X check out www.Rhodium.ws it has solvent extraction procedures which may be more productive. It also has lots of other interesting stuff everyone would be intersted in looking at. Have a geezer u will be suprised with its content
     

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    #14
    Originally posted by Cowboy Mac
    Originally posted by goodfellas
    was www.rhodium.ws any help?


    A solvent extraction for codeine is unnecessary, a cold water extraction is just as good if not better for a non-chemistry minded person to attempt.
    Dont think you have to be chemistry minded to attempt a solvent extraction. The instructions are all there at Rhodium. You will end up with a better final product because the methanol will help remove the codeine from the binders, gums, waxes etc and you will get more product in a liquid form instead of a gooey mixture like you were talking about. This is a harm minimisation site so if you attempt it take note of the safety tips.
     

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    #15
    Originally posted by goodfellas
    Dont think you have to be chemistry minded to attempt a solvent extraction. The instructions are all there at Rhodium. You will end up with a better final product because the methanol will help remove the codeine from the binders, gums, waxes etc and you will get more product in a liquid form instead of a gooey mixture like you were talking about. This is a harm minimisation site so if you attempt it take note of the safety tips.


    With a cold water extraction you end up with a solid product if you evaporate off the water, not a gooey mix. The binder and ibuprofen are not soluble in water so they can be seperated with the use of filter paper. I think that its a waste of money and effort to do a solvent extraction to get a substance that is readily soluble in water.
     

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    #16
    Why is not common practise to use Mersyndol for the extraction instead of Nurofen? Mersyndol has 30mg codiene per tablet. Is it the paracetemol in mersyndol that causes problems with the extraction?

    Cheers.
     

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    #17
    ah sorry, actually Nurofen Plus has more codeine, 12.8mg vs 9.75mg. You would also use Nurofen Plus because it has less active ingredients that are soluble in water, ie. they don't have doxylamine succinate, which from what I understand is also soluble in water. You wouldn't want to contaminate your codeine with other chemicals

    edit: I think you are referring to Mersyndol Forte, which isn't over the counter. Nurofen Plus are preferred because they have the highest OTC codeine content.
     

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    #18
    with the cold water extraction process after evaporating the solution your presumably left with codiene (whatever it looks like).

    Even with using a micron filter is this substances safe to inject if properly dissolved?

    has anyone had experince with doing this?
     

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    #19
    There is some concern about rapid injections of oral OTC preparations being related to deposits of microcrystalline cellulose (presumably binders) in the lungs and pulmonary edema. From this post by Zorn: Shooting Up Codeine? (Other Drugs Archive)

    IVing codeine is not a good idea, but neither is it as dangerous as some here will have you believe. Medical sources often suggest slow infusion of IV codeine rather than bar it outright.
    Still, it is NOT A GOOD IDEA, for two reasons. As quale said, codeine is quite effective at provoking a histamine response, and two, it must be metabolized to morphine to have an effect.
    I have personally IV'd codeine, out of curiosity, and it was quite unpleasant. Instead of a normal rush I got a rush of allergy symptoms -- mild swelling, extreme itchiness, weird tingling in my hands and feet. The good, opioid effects didn't kick in for ~20 min or so. IV codeine is unpleasant and useless, stick with oral or IM if you must.
    BigTrancer
    Last edited by BigTrancer; 30-03-2004 at 05:39.
     

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    #20
    mongman < good theory, I remember someone stating that Nurofen Plus's abuse potential is rather well-known to pharmacists.

    ihaq4weed < this I believe is the definitive guide to making freebase codeine: http://balder.prohosting.com/~adhpag...oppies_org.txt

    Disgruntled by the Nurofen+ conspiracy theories that were evidently true, I went back to using the good old Cold Water extraction on 48x Chemist's Own pain tablets (10mg Codeine & 500mg paracetamol). I estimate it was 75-85% yield; it kicked my ass, at first I was like *sssmokin!* then I got nauseous and had to lie down so the nausea would go away. My friends showed up to take away my weed plants but I hid in the bathroom so they couldn't see me. Then they drove off and messaged me saying "we came but u weren't there" and I was all "yeah I was, I was just in the bathroom, I heard you guys leave, so come back..." It was the ultimate prank!
     

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    #21
    4. Wet the filter(s) with very cold water to prevent it from absorbing the solution and put it in the glass. Stick an elastic/rubber band around the container to keep the filter in place.

    The above point was taken form the CWE site mentioned way back. Its a little confusing regarding the filter paper and just where you put it. I assume its over the top of the glass? Can anyone clear it up? Thanks.
     

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    #22
    If your using conical (coffee) filters (not sure if these are fine enough though?) simply wet the filter then hang the majority of the filter INSIDE the glass/cup/vessel and place a rubber band around the outside of the glass and the top of the filter. This way all the mix can be dumped in and slowly drip out. If your using real (round) lab filters simply fold in half to a semicircle, then fold again into a quarter circle. Open on of the two pouches this has made and you now have the same thing as the coffee filter. If that isnt clear enough i can post a pic for you...
    **edit**
    There is one in my member gallery pending approval n.b this is just a piece of paper to show you how its done, didnt have any filters laying around. Paper will NOT work as a filter.
    Last edited by somekindagenius; 12-07-2005 at 11:37.
     

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    #23
    Using a wet, folded up hankercheif works just as well as a filter too guys, with added bonuses, they dont break when you want to use force and squeeze the rest of the filtered solution out when it begins to get really gunky during your second extraction pass.

    Kinda like vacuum filtration, but using pressure applyed by your hands

    Refer to my post here:

    http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/showthrea...23#post3284123
     

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    #24
    Just remember when you squeeze the hankerchief you apply pressure to the material weave, enlarging the holes slightly and increasing the minimum size of particles that enter your filtrate. The best method to assure a good filtration is to allow the process to continue without pressure -- when the filter becomes 'clogged' and the flow of liquid stops completely, pour off the unfiltered material into a beaker, and then install fresh filter paper, moisten and filter the rest of the solution with the clean filter. Repeat the changing of filter paper until the whole solution has been filtered slowly under gravity pressure only. It takes time, but the filtrate will be far cleaner.

    BigTrancer
     

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    #25
    In theory you sound correct, but my eperiments have shown that twisting and squeezing a four layered hanky full of second-run junk that normally would not move through a filter because of its thickness (and still large amount of codeine not to mention) will result in a very clear extraction dripping out the other side , and will take a very very short time to complete, give it a go
     

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