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Thread: st.johns wort vs. 5htp

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    st.johns wort vs. 5htp 
    #1
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    ok i was wondering if st. johns wort can be used to help with my depression i get sometimes the day after and help out with the come down better or equally as 5 htp will. does anyone know?

    it states that the difference between the two is this
    5-HTP workds by increasing the cells output of serotonin
    ST. JOHN'S WORT works like SSRI's in that it increases the availabilty of serotonin in synapses by blocking their reuptake but also increases the availability of norepinephrine, which increases energy and alertness and dopamine, which increases the feeling of well being.

    what tha hell does that mean? does that mean 5htp puts serotonin out as where st.johns wort just put the availability of serotonin out. that sounds like a dumb question, sorry guys im just not good when it comes to interpreting that shit. so all in all can i use st. johns instead and it'll be the same or similar?
     

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    #2
    im a little scared to take 5 htp bcuz it's not fda regulated and im always scared to take products that arent plus 5 htp has been linked to a syndrome as a result called EMS (eosinophilia myalgia syndrome) which some ppl who suffered have recovered some illness's have persisted or worsened over time. anyone else heard of this? i got it from http://vm.cfsan.fda.gov/~ds-tryp1.html
     

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    #3
    keep in mind that st johns wort is a maoi, these things do not go wel with amphetamine type drugs
     

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    #4
    tho i do take drugs i dont want to be a complete jackass and mix something i dont know much about as opposed to e...i'd rather be a half jackass if you dont mind.
     

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    #5
    i interpret it as

    5htp replenishes seritonin levels, therefore creating more to be pumped around the brain

    St johns wort blocks the seritonin going back into the nerve which the seritonin came from, keeping it in the synapse of the brain

    in anology terms

    filling up a tank of water - 5htp

    or keeping a plug in the sink keeping the water floating around in the sink for longer to stimulate the brain receptors - st johns

    hope that helps
     

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    #6
    You're getting mixed up there eng. St Johns wort isn't an SSRI (well at least not much), but it is an MAOI, that is to say, it inhibits the destruction of monoamine neurotransmitters in the synapse.
     

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    #7
    Ok i'll try to put this as clearly as i can and sum up what's been said here..... as I understand it:

    5-hydroxytryptophan (5HTP) is a precursor to serotonin (5HT). Basicly speaking 5HTP is metabolised by your body with the help of Vitamin C and Vitamin B6 (E users should really consider supplementing with these) to become serotonin.

    Normally your body manurfactures serotonin from tryptophan, an amino acid from food (most comes from meats, poulty, dairy, nuts etc). This is a slow and inefficient process, which is why it can take weeks for a E users serotonin levels to come back to normal. 5HTP is a intermediate step, being very quickly converted to serotonin. It takes about an hour.

    Yes St. Johns wort is like an SSRI in that it blocks the reuptake of neurotransmitters serotonin and the others. But dopamine and epinpepherine in somewhat lesser ammounts.

    But what good is a SSRI if your brain is out of juice?

    Also a note from what research I can find 5HTP is very non toxic, and you'd have to take a rather large ammount to cause any harm. You can very safely take it every day as a supplement. It's noted to have a faster and more side-effect free action than other antidepressants. Infact it has no adverse side effects I have experienced at least.

    So go get yourself some 5HTP kids
     

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    #8
    Bluelighter Dazed Zeppelin's Avatar
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    but does St. johns wort work to get the serotonin back to your body? Is it safe to use while on E, because I heard that taking 5 HTP while on it is good for your high and better for your bidy, because it getting it back while it is being used up.
     

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    #9
    Dazed Zeppelin; check out this thread with regards to taking 5-HTP while rolling, esp. the last post
     

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    #10
    Bluelighter BigCat007's Avatar
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    I'd discourage you from using st john's wort while on e...
    one example
    another example

    If you do a search for it, there's even more than that out there.. but mixing SJW and E can lead to some very unwanted effects.
     

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    #11
    Bluelighter Dazed Zeppelin's Avatar
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    thanks toot, that helped
     

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    #12
    Bluelighter dyscotopia's Avatar
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    my ex and i took a load of 5htp and st. john's wort on the comedown once. the first effects were that we were in an excellent mood, giddy almost. however, that was soon followed by some of the most intense stomach pain ever. i'd probably chock that up to the MAOI effects of the SJW because 5htp alone has never had that effect on me. i'd advise against mixing SJW w/ anything.
     

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    #13
    st. johns wort should be fine a 3-4 hours after any 5htp. i wouldn't combine 5HTP with any SSRI or MAOI.

    taking a lot of 5HTP before your roll can make it more intense. For people with a tolerance it brings all the fun back, for everyone else it'll have you on your ass for a hour or two.
     

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    #14
    Originally posted by luckyrollz26
    tho i do take drugs i dont want to be a complete jackass and mix something i dont know much about as opposed to e...i'd rather be a half jackass if you dont mind.
    Well then, if you are worried about FDA approval then why in the hell are you so up on the idea of taking Saint John's Wort?

    SJW is currently under investigation at NIH's Alternative Medicine Division. But that doesn't even imply that SJW is approved.

    You know (at least, I hope you have investigated this) that the following days after taking MDMA your brain contains a lowered reserve of serotonin. - FACT

    You should know (God man, there's soooooo much discussion about this here) that 5-HTP is a direct precursor to 5-HT (serotonin). You might not know that the conversion of 5-HTP into 5-HP is a simple one step chemical process. Effectively, it is easy to convert.

    Under post-MDMA conditions (remember, we're talkin' serotonin depletion - NOT - depression treatment) SJW isn't going to do damn thing to increase your serotonin levels. Your body needs the base products to replenish your serotonin stores. And 5-HTP provides that at the least cost to your body.


    BTW, your FDA link is broken. But I think you are referring to L-Tryptophan. L-Tryptophan is NOT 5-HTP. 5-HTP is what L-Tryptophan is converted to, and then 5-HTP is converted to 5-HT.
     

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    #15
    L-Tryptophan had some contraversy back in the day, but the ill effects were more to do with the fermenting bacteria used in it's production. Some problems occured when people were supplementing with 6000-10000mg a day
     

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    #16
    yeah i know its broken but that was the link i got from the bottom of this printed out page i printed a while back. and thanks for tha info brian but i detected sarcasm in your post maybe im wrong is so im sorry if not dont try and belittle me with you high information. not everyone knows everything and when you patronize someone it doesnt get anywhere how do you think we find out things by asking questions right. but thanks for tha info. and i though sjw was fda approved someone told me it was sorry i didnt know another fact.
     

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    #17
    luckyrollz26,

    My advice is to stop building true/false models solely based on what people have told you. People will come up with the wildest ideas and claim they are true (or they will parrot someone else's wild ideas). Unless you try to verify by finding authoritative references, you end up with a skewed idea of what is going on.

    For example, rather than attempting to develop a "rule of thumb" knowledge of 5-HTP, look it up. Investigate the actual reasons why people take it. Find out what it does, and how that applies to post-MDMA use. Determine exactly how it goes about "fixing" the problem.

    SJW & FDA is another example. It is easy to find out what the status is on SJW by searching the FDA's web site. You can also look through NIH's site for information. You find a TON of things.

    But, more important, you will be able to have a high level of assuredness that your "reality model" is as close as possible to being factual.

    And it sure beats living in a rumor or "bard" based reality.
    Last edited by Brian Oblivion; 01-02-2004 at 11:17.
     

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    #18
    Bluelighter
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    The reason why people who take MDMA need 5HTP is that MDMA destroys (indirectly) the emzyme that converts tryptophan to 5htp. 5htp is always converted to seratonin, and most of it will get to your brain if you eat it with NO other protein on an empty stomach. If you eat 5htp with other protein, most of it will be converted to sertaonin in your liver, where your liver will try to use it to build new cells for your body, like normal protein. A waste of 5htp in my opinion.

    If you have been hammering your brain with MDMA and you eat heaps of food high in tryptophan (bananas, cashews, fish, hazelnuts, egg yoke, ect) you will not get seratonin replacement. You need 5htp. It takes about 2 weeks after MDMA for the enzyme to slowly 'grow' back.
     

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    #19
    thanks brian, will do and thanks for tha info also in addition to looking it up i can ask the question here which is what its intended to. but thanks anyway. next time i will look it up and that ems is about 5htp but im gonna look for the working website.
     

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    #20
    Interesting info Dr. Beat, will have to look that up. From what i've read i concluded it was pure serotonin depletion and that the body was a slow converter of tryptophan. In hindsight that didsn't make sense anyway.

    So just one dose of 5HTP after a roll may not be enough, you may have to take it for several days then to maintain 5HT supply. I'm sure maximizing available tryptophan would somewhat counter the effects of reduced enzyme function though.
     

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    #21
    Yes, Dr. Beat.. please site your source for that information...
     

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    #22
    last 6 months or so i take always SJW for a couple days after a roll and im happyer than without it
     

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    #23
    Bluelighter defi's Avatar
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    If your a female, is known that st.johns wort interfers
    with yalls birth control. Which can cause major problems
    if you dont want little ones.
     

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    #24
    Bluelighter defi's Avatar
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    consult your doctor
     

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    #25
    im a male
     

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