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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine FAQ & Megathread v3; 2010 - 2022

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impossible to get high from heroin again while your on it right? you dont mean forever?

Haha. That'd be a neat trick. "Here, take this..." says the Doctor. It'll stop the effects of heroin ultimately for the rest of your life! Would anyone ever take it?
 
snorting vs sublingual

HI guys. forgive me if there is a bette place for this question, or if it's been asked and answered before (if so, tell me where please?O but this seems the best. i know from the thread intro that sub-lingual suboxone gives about a 33% bioavailablility, while snorting gives you about 50. but wouldn't a big factor be the amount being used? i mean. if i crushed up and and snorted 16 mgs of sub, a good deal of that goes down the back of my throat. while if i did like 1/2 mg, it seems like nothing goes down the throat. so, i guess my question is: isn't the bioavailablity of what ever drug you are using inversely proportional to the amount used?

do you know what i mean? thanks for any help peeps.


- catbird.
 
HI guys. forgive me if there is a bette place for this question, or if it's been asked and answered before (if so, tell me where please?O but this seems the best. i know from the thread intro that sub-lingual suboxone gives about a 33% bioavailablility, while snorting gives you about 50. but wouldn't a big factor be the amount being used? i mean. if i crushed up and and snorted 16 mgs of sub, a good deal of that goes down the back of my throat. while if i did like 1/2 mg, it seems like nothing goes down the throat. so, i guess my question is: isn't the bioavailablity of what ever drug you are using inversely proportional to the amount used?

do you know what i mean? thanks for any help peeps.


- catbird.

If you ask me, my answer would be:

The bio-availability %'s are a statistical approach. I am assuming the numbers come from experiments with animals, and I think that the numbers are an average based on A) amount ingested & amount absorbed, and B) route of administration... an example:

A sheep is given 16mg of sublingual buprenorphine ten times, and on average, only 4mg is absorbed. Another sheep is given 8mg ten times, and an average of 4 mg is absorbed. When the results from the experiments are combined, the sheep tends to absorb an average 33% of the given dose.

A bunch of sheep are then subjected to the same experiment, but this time by intranasal administration. After the experiment is done, absorption averages are calculated based on the amount ingested and the amount absorbed...

I would agree with you completely, that there probably is a somewhat inversely proportional relationship, in terms of bioavailability at higher doses. As you mention, a certain amount will likely go to waste, if one is given more buprenorphine than the body can absorb, through the chosen ROA. The surface area under the tongue, in the nasal cavity and sinuses, in the ass, wherever your putting your drug, is naturally a limiting factor in absorption amounts and rates.
 
^A little info and update on my personal experience might also back up my hunches that I mentioned in my previous post...

I've been taking buprenorphine as Subutex for about 40 days. I started at 16 mg per day, and began a tapering scheme a week ago, and am now down to about 10 mg per day.

I have mainly taken it sublingually, dosing numerous times per day for the first 35 days or so, but only once for the remaining days. The days of multiple ingestions, have provided me with experience of administering variable amounts of Subutex. On three occassions I used a rectal ROA, twice nasal, and the rest have been sublingual.

My observations so far are as follows:

A) Sublingually, numerous smaller doses spread out over a period of a few hours, are cummulatively more effective than a single large-dose administration. Thus, I assume that with this ROA, the smaller the dose, the higher the chances are of absorbing as much buprenorphine as possible.
B) Rectal administration should probably only be done at doses smaller than or equal to 2 mg buprenorphine. With larger amounts, more water is required for complete dissolution of the buprenorphine, which calls for the use of a larger syringe... this does not go well with an untrained asshole. However, absorption seems to be quite high, and one does avoid the annoyances of sublingual administration (e.g. bad taste, prolonged absorption times when salivary glands produce little saliva, and the large amount of wasted product when salivary glands go amok).
C) Nasal administration is uncomfortable when large amounts of Subutex is snorted. I puked immediately after taking my first line ever. I attempted to snort 1 mg of buprenorphine on the first day of heroin withdrawals, and ended up projectile vomiting immediately. However, I followed up on it, with another 1 mg line (this time with slower, and more controlled inhalation), which went down fine. Even with 1 mg, it seemed like a lot went to waste by dripping down my throat. But I think that some of it must get absorbed when passing the pharynx and esophagus, as long as swallowing is avoided for as long as possible. At the time, however, effects were minimal due to my intense heroin withdrawal symptoms, and the low dose taken. But this method seems popular and effective, and I am going to experiment more, once I reach a much lower daily dose.


My conclusions:

My preferred ROA so far is sublingual. For sublingual and nasal ROA, the lower the dose, the better the absorption rates. This also leads to a better cumulative effect, if small doses are taken in intervals over a period of time. With smaller doses, less goes to waste. The large doses require a lot to be absorbed, and this leads to more wastage, due to over/under salivation, lack of accomodation space in the mouth, nasal cavity, pharynx, and esophogus. And lastly, if you wanna go in the back door, do so at doses lower than 2 mg, with 1 ml syringes, unless well acquainted with alternative gear and methods. Rectal administration has almost no 'spillage' and absorption rates are likely relatively high in the rectum. Absorption percentages are probably also higher at lower doses with rectal ROA.
 
Subutex question

I haven't take subutex for 5 days, today I felt so shit I thought I might go back on to heroin! I have now taken 4mg of subutex, will I go through subutex withdrawls again tomorrow if I don't use? Any help would be very much appreciated, thank you in advance
 
^You'll likely still be withdrawing from the bupe after the heroin comes and goes, unless of course you binge on heroin for a week and a half or so... Bupe w/d lasts appx. 2 weeks on average.
 
^You'll likely still be withdrawing from the bupe after the heroin comes and goes, unless of course you binge on heroin for a week and a half or so... Bupe w/d lasts appx. 2 weeks on average.
 
I haven't take subutex for 5 days, today I felt so shit I thought I might go back on to heroin! I have now taken 4mg of subutex, will I go through subutex withdrawls again tomorrow if I don't use? Any help would be very much appreciated, thank you in advance

You'll probably feel OK tomorrow, and for the next couple days, but odds are the Bupe (Subutex) withdrawals will come back at some point. They may not be as bad, though... if you think about it what you're doing (provided you don't start taking the Subutex daily again) in the long run is effectively the same thing as tapering. You took 4mg over the course of 5 days... you just took it all at once!

Everyone's body is different, so you can never say with 100% certainty, though.

Personally, I'm doing the same thing right now and for the first few days I had been taking either 5mg Tramadol, Tylenol 3 or a liquid Codeine cough syrup at night so I could sleep. It really helped, and granted the withdrawals I've got from this are virtually NOTHING, but if I had to do it all over again I wouldn't even have bothered with that stuff. I feel like it got me nothing but short term relief while prolonging the symptoms. Now I'm just taking Immodium AD for my stomach, resting as much as possible and drinking a lot of liquids. Sleeping is tougher, but each day I can feel myself getting stronger and healthier coming out of the WDs.

Everybody says days 3-5 are the worst for Sub WDs, so don't feel bad taking anything. Whatever works, right? Just sayin' - you gotta actually go through some pain at some point to overcome this shit.
 
Alright, I FINALLY said fuck it to pain management. It is destroying my finances (probably about as bad as illicit drugs did) and I am still always in pain, with a doctor who is unwilling to work with me. SO:
I withdrew CT off of 50mg/ day of Oxymorphone insufflated ~ 200mg of Morphine @ absolute bioavailablity. I did this two days ago and to calm the withdrawals I have been taking like 1-2mg of Suboxone from when I tried to stop PM the last time. I don't really want to replace the OM with the Bupe, I'd rather just be done with opiates and switch to Medical Marijuana for my Pain Management. I am thinking that if I only take very small doses of bupe for like 2-3 days it will be a much shorter withdrawal period than the typical 2 weeks or so.

Opinions? I really just need to be off this shit as the MMJ works as well or better for me and my doctor is just so frustrating. I've had a long romance with opies from recreation, to medication and all around, and I just want to be done.
 
Alright, I FINALLY said fuck it to pain management. It is destroying my finances (probably about as bad as illicit drugs did) and I am still always in pain, with a doctor who is unwilling to work with me. SO:
I withdrew CT off of 50mg/ day of Oxymorphone insufflated ~ 200mg of Morphine @ absolute bioavailablity. I did this two days ago and to calm the withdrawals I have been taking like 1-2mg of Suboxone from when I tried to stop PM the last time. I don't really want to replace the OM with the Bupe, I'd rather just be done with opiates and switch to Medical Marijuana for my Pain Management. I am thinking that if I only take very small doses of bupe for like 2-3 days it will be a much shorter withdrawal period than the typical 2 weeks or so.

Opinions? I really just need to be off this shit as the MMJ works as well or better for me and my doctor is just so frustrating. I've had a long romance with opies from recreation, to medication and all around, and I just want to be done.

Don't know where to begin with this post? Medical Marijuana is better for pain than Opiates? Are you an Marijuana activist? Because, when I used to have an headache, smoking marijuana either made it worse or better. It was a 50/50 split on what would happen.

Perhaps, these new medical strains are good for managing pain. I've not tried any to be sure. But, I'd rather not recommend you to get mentally and/or physically addicted to marijuana. If you say you are done with PM, then do it. Finish the pain management period. It is no good swapping one addiction for another.

I'm not judging you ~ I'm just a recovering addict like a lot of people here. With my own voice. And that voice is telling me to tell you that you really don't want marijuana. It's not as effective as Opiates in the long haul. I'm a pain sufferer myself, and marijuana never helped me, whereas a little 4mg dose of Subutex daily works wonders.

My problem is my stomach though. And Subutex is great for stomach complains. I also drink Kratom tea for pain. Perhaps if you want a LEGAL alternative, try Kratom.

EDIT: Actually, it's not just my stomach producing too much acid that is a problem, its my lower abdomen in pain which kratom helps!
 
^ i think having an MMJ card and taking medical marijuana is a LOT less harmful to your body than a lifetime of opiates.. i know people that are 60 and have been smoking since "they were 10" (they say) and they look pretty good for an older person.. but the people i know around the same age that have been doing opiates look like death.

And by the way, i am no MMJ activist, i dont smoke weed and wouldn't even if it was legal.. im bipolar and weed fucks me up in the same way acid does.. so i stick to benzos and opiates.
 
Opiates are completely non-toxic, much less harmful psychologically and physiologically than marijuana and most other drugs; ANY doctor will tell you this. The harm that follows upon opiate use attaches to the lifestyle that comes with opiates (poor diet, no exercise, etc etc), and the lifestyle follows strictly as a result of western laws. Opiates in themselves are not harmful at all, apart from their propensity to generate dependence. Pot, on the other hand, does damage your brain like all psychedelics.
 
Opiates are completely non-toxic, much less harmful psychologically and physiologically than marijuana and most other drugs; ANY doctor will tell you this. The harm that follows upon opiate use attaches to the lifestyle that comes with opiates (poor diet, no exercise, etc etc), and the lifestyle follows strictly as a result of western laws. Opiates in themselves are not harmful at all, apart from their propensity to generate dependence. Pot, on the other hand, does damage your brain like all psychedelics.

well than it's a good thing i dont smoke weed and only do opiates ;)
 
Can someone help me??

No one replied to posts...

Just started Suboxone this week, Im at 4 mg a day. My question is will Suboxone give me the physical enery and motivation I had pre-opiate addiction? I use to work out daily and do well in school but since becoming an opiate addict my physical energy is no more, I've let myself go, lost nearly 30 lbs of muscle and weigh 145 lbs at 6"2, and I don't have the motivation in life that I once had. My grades and life have truely suffered because of my addiction, I'm hoping Suboxone will get me back on track. Can I expect Suboxone to help me get the energy and motivation that I had pre-addiction?

If anyone has experience with working out and Suboxone post how you think it effects you. Thanks.
 
Opiates are completely non-toxic, much less harmful psychologically and physiologically than marijuana and most other drugs; ANY doctor will tell you this. The harm that follows upon opiate use attaches to the lifestyle that comes with opiates (poor diet, no exercise, etc etc), and the lifestyle follows strictly as a result of western laws. Opiates in themselves are not harmful at all, apart from their propensity to generate dependence. Pot, on the other hand, does damage your brain like all psychedelics.

Careful... these claims come from an ideal dreamworld, where product is pure and users are able to maintain at low to moderate doses, thus not having to deal with the negative lifestyle that follows a dreary drug habit in this naive law-burdened world, where users and abusers alike, are forced to compensate a healthy lifestyle for a less healthy one, due to the circumstances that are so often associated with the acquisition of illicit substance.

Opiates can be quite harmful, even when an otherwise healthy lifestyle is maintained. This is due to the profound effect that opiates have on a wide range of mental and bodily functions. Even if you are very social, eat well, and exercise all day long while maintaining an opiate habit, your circulation and breathing is still going to be somewhat shit when you nod off at night - and this will in the long run have a negative effect on your muscle and organ development, etc. On the contrary, there are cases, where people have smoked insane amounts of ganja daily, and lived to a very old age without a scratch. When you think about it, whether you live a really healthy lifestyle or not, the negative health effects are dependant upon the individuals mental/physical condition and lifestyle, ROA, purity of product, dosage, and tolerance. Even the healthiest individual will experience negative effects, at a high enough dose over a sufficient period of time. If product is not pure, contaminants will enter the body and might cause damage; whether it be smoked, injected, eaten, snorted, or stuffed up your ass; regular exposure to any foreign substance will have noticeable effects. The more you do, the more pronounced the effects; it is essentially impossible to completely compensate for the undesired effects through management of a healthy lifestyle. We must accept the consequences, and expect them, in order to limit damage. Only when you acknowledge the fact that opiates and other drugs will have some sort of negative effect, can you begin to consider damage control. So do not think that they are harmless, as you claim any doctor will tell you. The doctor makes these claims within a limited set of conditions.

My point here is that the notion of harmless opiates, is one of those things that gets all junkies convinced that they are doing the right thing, and that nobody has the right to take their DOC away from them; the laws are wrong, this world is fucked up and I'm not, without proof and first-hand experience first I won't believe what the doctor tells me, and yadiyadiya... I also used to think that I could handle opiates, and completely reduce damage by following a strict set of lifestyle guidelines. Likewise, I smoked a lot of ganja daily for years, and really enjoyed doing so. Amongst other things, I wanted to prove to myself and others, that it was possible to attain a university degree and stay healthy, even though I was a total pothead and psychonaut who could use various substances without feeling negative effects. I wanted to prove everyone wrong who didn't have faith in the idea, I wanted to prove the laws wrong too. And I wanted to prove that it was possible to be a responsible heroin user. Eventually, I ended up proving myself wrong, and realized that there was no reason for me to try and prove this sort of thing to anyone, before I accepted the consequences, and learned to deal with them in a responsible and reliable manner.

Even though damage from opiate use might be minimal on a strictly physiological level, how has it affected you on an emotional level? Your family relations? Do you still have the same loving friends, that you had before you tried to prove to yourself that you could live smacked out without hurting yourself or anyone else? The emotional turmoil that comes as a result of prolonged drug use, both in terms of opiates, cannabinoids, and a wide range of other psychoactive substances, also has a remarkable effect on mental and physical health. So before you convince yourself that you can get away with opiate use without any harm done, think twice, and think about all the factors that are in play - just because the substance might have passed through you with no toxic metabolites, don't think that you don't collect baggage and burdens along the way that are directly related to the use of either opiates or cannabinoids. And don't trust all doctors, in the end, they are just people like you and me.

EDIT: People, please don't take this post personally. I just wanted to express some thoughts based on my own experience, in terms of justifying an opiate or cannabis habit with health effects in mind.
 
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^Hey!
The post was not meant at you directly, but a general post for everyone who is considering the pros and cons and health effects of using opiates, and perhaps other drugs like cannabis etc... So I didn't mean for it to sound like I was judging you, sorry if it came across as if I was pointing fingers. Your post just suited the context of my main arguments, and I truly apologize if I have shined the wrong light on you - third apology I've had to make today, great fucking start to the day... Seems like I am really starting a lot of unintentional shit this morning on Bluelight... :(

On another note, if I may judge a little, then I must say that I am incredibly proud of you. 17 days after 5 years of maintenance after only-you-know-how-many years of other opiates... That's a huge victory, and I think it would be a shame to relapse. If you must relapse, best thing is probably to go back on subs, and stay away from heroin if you can. Speaking of which, did you go onto methadone and subs because of heroin abuse? Some people have had success with kratom, as an alternative during wd's and PAWS... in any case, I hope that you are rocking your world, and that you fulfill your goals of getting clean! And I can't even begin to imagine what smoking weed must be like for you, it's really cool that you keep such an open mind about it, even though you experience negative effects from it.

EDIT: As a matter of fact, I will remove your quote from my post, so that we can both STFU. One love, it was never my intention for you to get offended.
 
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^Hey!
The post was not meant at you directly, but a general post for everyone who is considering the pros and cons and health effects of using opiates, and perhaps other drugs like cannabis etc... So I didn't mean for it to sound like I was judging you, sorry if it came across as if I was pointing fingers. Your post just suited the context of my main arguments, and I truly apologize if I have shined the wrong light on you - third apology I've had to make today, great fucking start to the day... Seems like I am really starting a lot of unintentional shit this morning on Bluelight... :(

On another note, if I may judge a little, then I must say that I am incredibly proud of you. 17 days after 5 years of maintenance after only-you-know-how-many years of other opiates... That's a huge victory, and I think it would be a shame to relapse. If you must relapse, best thing is probably to go back on subs, and stay away from heroin if you can. Speaking of which, did you go onto methadone and subs because of heroin abuse? Some people have had success with kratom, as an alternative during wd's and PAWS... in any case, I hope that you are rocking your world, and that you fulfill your goals of getting clean! And I can't even begin to imagine what smoking weed must be like for you, it's really cool that you keep such an open mind about it, even though you experience negative effects from it.

i went on methadone for OC and methadone addiction with occasional H when i couldn't get the other two mentioned.. but then i moved and switched to 32mg bupe from 120mg methadone/day and i quickly tapered my bupe down to 4mg/day and for the last 2 years i was on 1-2mg bupe/day.. but i feel i will do just fine and not relapse as i changed my scenery and that helped a HELL of a lot, plus i don't talk to my old dope friends either.. iight i dont wanna talk about my opiate past.. im trying to move forward and the more i dwell on the shit i did than the less help i am giving myself to get better.
 
i went on methadone for OC and methadone addiction with occasional H when i couldn't get the other two mentioned.. but then i moved and switched to 32mg bupe from 120mg methadone/day and i quickly tapered my bupe down to 4mg/day and for the last 2 years i was on 1-2mg bupe/day.. but i feel i will do just fine and not relapse as i changed my scenery and that helped a HELL of a lot, plus i don't talk to my old dope friends either.. iight i dont wanna talk about my opiate past.. im trying to move forward and the more i dwell on the shit i did than the less help i am giving myself to get better.

Amazing what a change of scenery and setting can do, right? I have also found that to be the most motivating factor in terms of getting through wd's. All good with me, if you want to leave it all behind and move on. My best wishes to you.
 
Amazing what a change of scenery and setting can do, right? I have also found that to be the most motivating factor in terms of getting through wd's. All good with me, if you want to leave it all behind and move on.

yeah, scenery can change a lot of things, especially outlook on life and realizing "i can start over" and thanks for...
bwanajzj: said:
My best wishes to you.
 
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