The AL-LAD Supply

This could've been anticipated tho - you've only got yourself to blame if you don't have 300 blotters sitting on ice in the freezer.

Ismene said:

This could've been anticipated tho - you've only got yourself to blame if you don't have 300 blotters sitting on ice in the freezer.

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Sad but true.

Any time something good comes around these days, you have to stock up before it either runs out or gets banned.

I won't give vendor details and am intentially being vague here but word is that Al-LAD is in the process of being stocked by some non UK, non European vendors. What I was told by a vendor I regularly deal with is that this has been in the works for some time and are literally weeks away from stocking it. I don't mean to a dick by being vague like this but I don't want to break any BL rules and I don't want to overly advertise exact details so the supply quickly dries up as in the UK. But I really don't think AL-LAD is going away anytime soon. EVERYONE seems to want it. And that kind of demand, someone will make it happen.

Like someone said before...if you don't have what is essentially a LT's supply, you may (or may not) have dropped the ball. I know of a few people who liked it enough to do so. Never to be thought about again...as it should be.

Much thanks for paying heed to my requests, turns out it is possible to say some sensible things on the subject even if demanding a concrete prognosis is quite beyond our limits. Thoughtful responses are what gives this forum the benefit of credence.

Solipsis said:

Much thanks for paying heed to my requests, turns out it is possible to say some sensible things on the subject even if demanding a concrete prognosis is quite beyond our limits. Thoughtful responses are what gives this forum the benefit of credence.

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And thanks to you for giving my thread a chance. I'm really pleased and satisfied that some useful stuff came (and continues to come) out of it.

Just a quick comment without having to resort to naming vendors/price, etc.

Chinese labs are more than capable of producing LSD and/or analogues. We aren't talking about run of the mill garage chemistry, we are talking about industrial production facilities that can turn an entire shift over to the production of one chemical. Most of the chemicals we order at work source from China (most of the biologicals come from North America/Europe). Sometimes chemicals are available for immediate shipment (a chemical that is made and sold regularly, and present in high stock), others have a wait time of up to 30 days (they have to be synthesized, purified and characterized....typically IR, NMR, mass spec). Requirements for test data are made at the requirement of North American resellers. In other words, the chemical is made to their specification.

If a single lab requires a chemical, the cost is greater and so is the wait time if not in stock. You're paying for raw materials/chemicals/supplies personnel and equipment expense. Large, sophisticated chemical manufacturing complexes can easily do this. They've got the ability to test scale synthesize and manufacture in anhydrous, inert atmospheres.

The Chinese industrial reps I've met (for biologicals, not chemicals) give out free samples, emphasize the speed and cost of their productions and point out that they can dedicate their capacity to our needs.

Obviously I'm of the opinion that the Chinese can (and in my opinion have or will) produce(d) AL-LAD, LSZ and other analogues.

Tom

(Mods please feel free to delete this post if you think it's inappropriate....i am not trying to tell people price or source....just passing along my experience with meeting people from Chinese manufacturing)

Thomas Davie said:

Obviously I'm of the opinion that the Chinese can (and in my opinion have or will) produce(d) AL-LAD, LSZ and other analogues.

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It's more a question of which *RC manufacturer* could produce AL-LAD or LSZ.

Any biochemical company could probably produce these chemicals, but I would guess that most of the chemical companies that can produce quality chemicals for industry are not going to take any risks on a very grey market compound.

Chinese RC quality has often been spectacularly low even for simple compounds like cathinones. This suggests that the Chinese RC industry may have trouble with a more complicated compound like AL-LAD. This says nothing about the general Chinese chemical industry, which is often of very high quality (although their market is very messy -- lots of little specialists -- and there *does* seem to be more dubious / fraudulent activity than other countries, even in the standard industrial world.)

I mean, I'm sure a Sigmund Aldrich or Fischer or Hawkins could make AL-LAD with ease... they obviously won't. Not for general sale, at least.

electrodevo said:

It's more a question of which *RC manufacturer* could produce AL-LAD or LSZ.

Any biochemical company could probably produce these chemicals, but I would guess that most of the chemical companies that can produce quality chemicals for industry are not going to take any risks on a very grey market compound.

Chinese RC quality has often been spectacularly low even for simple compounds like cathinones. This suggests that the Chinese RC industry may have trouble with a more complicated compound like AL-LAD. This says nothing about the general Chinese chemical industry, which is often of very high quality (although their market is very messy -- lots of little specialists -- and there *does* seem to be more dubious / fraudulent activity than other countries, even in the standard industrial world.)

I mean, I'm sure a Sigmund Aldrich or Fischer or Hawkins could make AL-LAD with ease... they obviously won't. Not for general sale, at least.

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So ... those who can, won't; those who will, can't. There's got to be a firm at the margin?

Gratuitous Grace said:

So ... those who can, won't; those who will, can't. There's got to be a firm at the margin?

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There's one that I can think of off the top of my head but I highly doubt they'll take the risk. They were lucky to survive the great ketamine inquisition as it is. They have been a lot more careful since.

OP don't worry about it. LSD or at least very high dose actual LSD, is going to become even more rare and even more hypothetically expensive, and AL-LAD and LSZ will flood the market and hypothetically be sold as "LSD".

PriestTheyCalledHim said:

OP don't worry about it. LSD or at least very high dose actual LSD, is going to become even more rare and even more hypothetically expensive, and AL-LAD and LSZ will flood the market and hypothetically be sold as "LSD".

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I doubt this. NBOMe's are cheaper and easier to make. I would be really surprised, especially in the case of AL-LAD, to see this happen.

Al & other lysergides might be beyond Chinese manufacturers & chemists now, but where there's money to made a way will be found. I agree with whoever suggested that a new technique has been realised which has made the mass production of LSD derivatives easier but it's quite possible or even likely that this technique is being kept quiet(ish). Someone did post a link to some new synthesis technique, in the Al thread but it was parsed & the pster warned, so I suspect in fact that this new technique, or one of them, is already in the public domain & it's only a lack of skill & precursors that prevent the legal market being flooded with this fine molecule.

I'm also with whoever reckoned that various other legal Lysergides are in the pipe-line but are being held back to prevent 1) a price war & 2) the banning of the compounds in question before they can become popular/profitable.

I had some blotters with Snoopy print (the cartoon) and they were sold as 192 µg per hit.

I remember the chinese had trouble making 6-apb. Remember the early days when all the vendors used to say "We will have one tablet of 6-apb in 3 months time. Please place your pre-orders now!". Then near the end of 6-apbs reign a chinese chemist fell head-first into the 6-apb vat and was dissolved, all they found was his brown shoes. This added a strange floury consistency to said batch which turned out to be the final batch before it was banned.

So I heard on a place that is.now defunct that there was a new tek that avoided the need for ill gotten ET or exposing potentially dangerous microbes to disco lights. Something along the lines of a GM or perhaps a trans-genetic. Long live the biohackers, once we create something that can reproduce we are . . . infinite

I noticed that when silkroad got shut down that a lot of the vendors selling lsd analogs started the run out of product within a week of them being shut down. so I assume that they were getting it off the Silk Road. I didn't know that there were any European labs allowed to synthesize LSD and then turn around and make it into a legal analog and sell it, it just doesn't seem right

There are multiple Chinese labs more than fully capable and willing to synthesize AL-LAD and could defy conventional chemistry synthesis theories successfully. . . for the right price. That is where the issue comes in. In fact there have long been reputable Chinese companies who include AL-LAD in their online catalogue of chemicals they can hypothetically synthesize.

I surmise there will be a point where someone with the 'entrepreneurial spirit' will take that leap, and we will start seeing a lot more lysergamides. But as it turns out, at this point there are still at least dozens of more profitable and less riskily synthesized chemicals to be explored; this means it could take a while before we see that.

Don't underestimate the knowledge of the Chinese for the mistakes of a few, as RC vendors tend to go through the cheapest and less-professional labs they can. Asian knowledge in chemistry easily surpasses European knowledge, IMO.

LSD Cruiser said:

Asian knowledge in chemistry easily surpasses European knowledge, IMO.

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That's a bold & contentious statement!

If that should indeed be the case, why is it that despite the fact that China has been supplying RC's to the UK market for at least 6 or 7 years & probably longer, no Chinese chemist or chemical manufacturer has produced Al-Lad?

Rumours abound of Al-Lad, LSz & numerous other Lysergides appearing in small batches, often sold under the guise of LSD, but no blotters tested have ever been shown to contain these to my knowledge.

I wouldn't be in the slightest bit surprised to see Chinese labs catch up fast once they see there's a buck or two to be made out of Al-Lad, but I personaly doubt that the know-how to produce Al-Lad profitably exists in China yet.

Euro labs are better the Chinese seem to have harse practices.the.Chinese seem to cut.costs.wherever they can. Take a drug like.mxe for example it seems to very allot from batch to .batch and multiple vendors have had this problem.just my opinion