Bupe Snorting the New Generic Subutex???

subutex

i just switched to the generic subutex and i also sniff them it is the same thing nothing different generic pills are the same as name brand its all the same chemicals...people are just fuckin

tjbod33 said:

i just switched to the generic subutex and i also sniff them it is the same thing nothing different generic pills are the same as name brand its all the same chemicals...people are just fuckin

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You are actually incorrect, the generic version doesn't have Povidone K30. Brand name Subutex and Suboxone do.

Captain.Heroin said:

You are actually incorrect, the generic version doesn't have Povidone K30. Brand name Subutex and Suboxone do.

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Correct.
This info has been posted elsewhere but I thought I would post a side by side comparison of inactive ingredients of brand name subutex vs. the generic roxane pills.

Brand name Original Subutex:
Inactive Ingredients: lactose, mannitol, cornstarch, povidone K30, citric acid, sodium citrate and magnesium stearate

Generic (Roxane):
Inactive Ingredients: anhydrous citric acid, corn starch, crospovidone, lactose monohydrate, magnesium stearate, mannitol, povidone, and sodium citrate

So as you can see, both pills have corn starch. Many people have stated that the generics are talc based, but as you can see this is not the case, they are both corn starch based.
The main difference seems to be that the original Subutex contains povidone k30, while the generics contains crospovidone as well as povidone.
For those that shoot their subutex, it is important to note what Wiki has to say about crospovidone.
It is used as a binder in many pharmaceutical tablets[3]; it simply passes through the body when taken orally. However, autopsies have found that crospovidone does contribute to pulmonary vascular injury in substance abusers who have injected pharmaceutical tablets intended for oral consumption.[4

This should be a point of concern for those that shoot subutex, and have switched to the generics. Crospovidone IS WATER SOLUBLE (which means that no amount of filtering will filter it out of your shot), and Crospovidone is an ingredient in the generics, but not the name brand formulation of subutex.

So with this in mind, if you shoot your subutex, I would strongly urge you to consider spending the extra money and sticking with the name brands, as they do not contain the crospovidone. I know that I will be sticking with the name brands. While they are more expensive, it would be pretty foolish to switch to a med which you KNOW contains a water soluble substance which has been shown to contribute to pulmonary injury. Just some food for though-DG

^Thanks for that info, DG. I know that povidone K30 is pretty similar to crospovidone... Do you know if there is similar information available on the use of povidone K30 IV, related to vascular injury? (it is also water-soluble, so I would assume that it would also cause the issue due to the extreme similarity of the two chemicals...)

BollWeevil said:

^Thanks for that info, DG. I know that povidone K30 is pretty similar to crospovidone... Do you know if there is similar information available on the use of povidone K30 IV, related to vascular injury? (it is also water-soluble, so I would assume that it would also cause the issue due to the extreme similarity of the two chemicals...)

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Hey BollWeevil,
I wondered the same thing about whether povidone k30 would share the same vascular issues as crospovidone since they are clearly closely related.

Oddly enough though it seems that povidone k30 is actually used as a dissolving agent for injectables-meaning that it is actually added to solutions which are intended to be injected. I would assume that if there were known vascular issues with this product, it would not be added to injectable solutions.

So this would seem to indicate that there is something about crospovidone which makes it liable to cause vascular injury, and that povidone k30 apparently lacks this property. Perhaps some of the folks over in ADD could explain why crospovidone would have these negative properties while the related povidone k30 does not. As Im sure you know, even minor chemical changes can often lead to drastic differences in terms of toxicity.


I suppose that it is also possible that their really isn't much evidence supporting the fact that crospovidone causes this type of injury. While Wiki does make mention of it, they don't elaborate on what kind of study resulted in this finding.

Anyway, thats all I can gather right now. However, until I hear otherwise, I have to maintain that it would be pretty dumb to inject the generic subutex in light of the pulmonary/vascular issues which have been mentioned. -DG

BollWeevil said:

I know that povidone K30 is pretty similar to crospovidone... Do you know if there is similar information available on the use of povidone K30 IV, related to vascular injury?

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Yes, any more information at all anybody would be greatly apreceated.

One other thing I would like to add on the original subject of this thread (snorting the generic subutex pills):

I had been snorting the original name brand subutex pills for about a year without any problems. Then when the generics came out I decided I would give them a try since they were so much cheaper. Let me first say that I did notice that the generics seem to burn a bit-not a terrible burn, but the originals did not burn at all.

Also, about a week after snorting the generics (about 2mg per day total, broken up into about 5 doses), I began to notice some blood in my snot. I did not have a true bloody nose, but if I blew my nose I would notice some blood in the mucous. As I said, I never experience any problems like this with the original subutex. It is always possible that the blood in the mucous is a coincidence, but I feel fairly certain that the generic subutex pills are harsher on the nose then the originals. Just wanted to add that bit. -DG

daddysgone said:

One other thing I would like to add on the original subject of this thread (snorting the generic subutex pills):

I had been snorting the original name brand subutex pills for about a year without any problems. Then when the generics came out I decided I would give them a try since they were so much cheaper. Let me first say that I did notice that the generics seem to burn a bit-not a terrible burn, but the originals did not burn at all.

Also, about a week after snorting the generics (about 2mg per day total, broken up into about 5 doses), I began to notice some blood in my snot. I did not have a true bloody nose, but if I blew my nose I would notice some blood in the mucous. As I said, I never experience any problems like this with the original subutex. It is always possible that the blood in the mucous is a coincidence, but I feel fairly certain that the generic subutex pills are harsher on the nose then the originals. Just wanted to add that bit. -DG

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Interesting observation DG! I haven't heard anything like this before, so if other people have some similar subjective experiences let's compare what's going on here. I'm interested to find out what's to blame for the nosebleed.

There obviously could have been other factors, but I think DG would have been aware/looking out for them.

thugpassion said:

Yes, any more information at all anybody would be greatly apreceated.

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The chemicals are so structurally similar I would be very surprised to see any difference... That said, I'm obviously not certain and looking for confirmation, but if anyone is trying to err on the side of caution...

BollWeevil said:

The chemicals are so structurally similar I would be very surprised to see any difference... That said, I'm obviously not certain and looking for confirmation, but if anyone is trying to err on the side of caution...

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Yes I agree that they appear to be extremely similar chemicals, and thats what makes this so odd.
Think about it:
One substance (Povidone k30) is actually deliberately used as a dissolving agent in solutions that are intended to be injected (so we must assume that it is considered safe to inject).

And the other substance (crospovidone) has been shown to contribute to pulmonary/vascular injury.

So it seems that we have 2 substances which are very similar, and yet one of them has a good enough safety profile for it to be an additive in injectable solutions, while the other is causing pulmonary/vascular injury.

Also I find something confusing about what Wiki says:

it simply passes through the body when taken orally. However, autopsies have found that crospovidone does contribute to pulmonary vascular injury in substance abusers who have injected pharmaceutical tablets intended for oral consumption.[4

Normally when you see pulmonary vascular injury from injecting pills, it is due to insoluble fillers/binders which end up accumulating in the lungs. However crospovidone is water soluble. So why would this water soluble substance which "passes through the body when taken orally", accumulate in the lungs when injected? Since its water soluble, why wouldn't it be filtered and passed out through the urine? Seems strange that it would accumulate in the lungs, no? -DG

I found our problem... Crospovidone is not water-soluble, while povidone is. (The K30 just means it is food grade povidone)... The article that both of us were reading, I assume, was misleading us to believe that both were water soluble. Here's a good read on it...

That would explain why crospovidone was causing damage to the IV users... They were not using a filter capable of removing the water insoluble crospovidone...

BollWeevil said:

I found our problem... Crospovidone is not water-soluble, while povidone is. (The K30 just means it is food grade povidone)... The article that both of us were reading, I assume, was misleading us to believe that both were water soluble. Here's a good read on it...

That would explain why crospovidone was causing damage to the IV users... They were not using a filter capable of removing the water insoluble crospovidone...

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Ahhhh...now it all makes sense.
So crospovidone is not water soluble-So if someone were to shoot the generic subutex (which contains crospovidone) and they did not properly filter it, then it would explain why it ended up accumulating in their lungs and caused damage.
So, assuming someone properly filters the generic subs, the crospovidone should be removed and not cause problems.

Also, the fact that crospovidone is not water soluble likely explain the reason I had blood in mucous from snorting the generic subs, but not from the brand name subutex. When snorting the generic subutex, because you do not typically filter a pill before snorting, I was snorting all the contents of the pill, including the non water soluble crospovidone. Because it is not water soluble, the crospovidone likely just sat there in my nasal cavity and irritated it, rather then being absorbed and flushed out as a water soluble substance would.

Does all this make sense now?-DG

^Yes, certainly. I don't know how irritable crospovidone is to the nasal membranes, but that does sound totally logical. As for the IV users, yeah, this certainly how it ended up getting in their lungs and causing damage...

Has anyone else had a problem with snorting the generic subutex? I am just about to get a Rx filled, and do not have insurance so I am trying the generic. I have been snorting the brand name for the past 2 1/2 years without a problem. I only snort it to save money, because of the expense of the brand name. I have also heard that mixing the tablets with a very small amount of alcohol increases absortion a good deal when done sublinguily. Does anyone have any experience with this?

hey, is the oval pills with B8 printed on them, the generic ones? (It's from Reckitt Benckiser)


And on the topic about difference between insufflating suboxone / subutex:

I allways thought suboxone had an active ingredient that made suboxone have less effects when insufflated compared to subutex, is this wrong?

That's the only reason I'm trying to get my doctor to switch me to subutex but if it's plain wrong then there's no idea in doing that.

I use 16 mg suboxone daily(been doing so for the last 8 months) and now I got my hands on some 8 mg's Subutex from the company stated above. Any ideas for dosage when going for nasal administration? I just crushed one and sniffed half of it (4 mg) and didn't really get any effect.

Edit:

Most docs are hesitant to prescribe subutex instead of suboxone because they are under the illusion that it is more abusable. This is because the nalaxone isnt in the subutex forumlation......even though the nalaxone doesnt make the suboxone any less abusable than subutex, its what the doctors were told my the drug companies and by the FDA/DEA so they believe it.

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jamesBrown posted that in another post wich answered my question regarding the effects, wich seems to be the same, was just a rumour that suboxone was less potent.

So I'll just use the same dosage as I allways do still interested to know if those Subutex pills are of the generic kind or not.

Hey guys been snortng subbys for 4 years normal subutex on its own but since they changed the brands and ingrediants in them im a bit werrey whether to snort them now i have the reckitt benckiser brand 2mg purple box with ingrediants of monohydrated lactose monnitol maize starch povidone excipient k30 citric acid sodium citrate and magensium stearate i wondering if anybody has had experience in snorting these all advice would be gratefull thanks

I just snorted about a third of an 8mg generic subutex tablet and that shit burned and made my nose gush instantly. I really wish there was a good way to take these things, they taste bad and take FOREVER to dissolve sublingually, it seems you can't bang 'em, and snorting them burns. I don't mean to complain because they are a Godsend, much much better than being out on the streets or going through w/d. Any suggestions to alternative medications or ways to get this stuff in the body would be much appreciated.

curiouskat said:

I just snorted about a third of an 8mg generic subutex tablet and that shit burned and made my nose gush instantly.

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Dude. Get over it. Ever snort meth? Apparently not...

Anyway, back to the topic:

I am on the generic Subutex, manufactured by Roxane (i've tapered down to 4mg/day.. plan to stick here a while, though). The pill is considerably smaller than name-brand Suboxone (buprenorphine+naloxone); so that is a plus for insufflation ROA. I recently switched; i noticed very little difference w/ insufflating either formula. Perhaps slightly more opioidergic effects w/ the Subutex formulation, i.e., itching, nodding, sedation; but not euphoria.

A young guy I knew snorted 1 subutex tablet at the tail end of a bender, his mum found him dead and purple the next morning.

I've snorted every kind of suboxone.

I prefer snorting the orange N8 suboxones. They're the most pleasant.

The generic subutex (seems like everyone who can piss clean is getting these) is a bit yuck. I want to barf sometimes. Also, you gotta just keep breaking it down a lot. Lot more pill material than the smaller suboxone.