• Select Your Topic Then Scroll Down
    Alcohol Bupe Benzos
    Cocaine Heroin Opioids
    RCs Stimulants Misc
    Harm Reduction All Topics Gabapentinoids
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums

Bupe buprenorphine patches

bupe patches...that would be awesome if they had them here. whats the price on them compared to the pills? especially since they are 10mg. of course it might not be as fun since its only 10mics/hr. That would kinda suck.

since bupe seems to have a ceiling dose, what will you be prescribed once you reach that? especially since you are getting them for pain, it kinda seems pointless in that light since you will probably have to switch to opiates. then when you want to get off the opiates, what will there be to goto if you become psychologically addicted, an extremely high dose of methadone?

Well i got patches but i wondering what is this about ceiling dose?

How long does it take to work?

I was thinking as long as it doesn't go over 2mg a day cause i gto 10mg patches which are costly can i have other opiates with it to potentiate or will they compete?
Also wondering what happens if you mix kanna with bupe?
 
This might help
THose finding info on mixing it with kanna is hard. Anyone got any ideas?

doc gave me stemzine wonder hgow that will add to the mix anyone?
From MIMS:
Uses/Indications: Partial opioid agonist. Mod to severe pain


Contraindications: Severe respiratory impairment; nonselective MAOIs (within 14 days of stopping MAOI)


Precautions: Not for narcotic dependence treatment, postop use, situations with a narrow therapeutic index, rapidly varying analgesia need; inflammatory bowel, convulsive disorders; head injury; impaired consciousness (undiagnosed); intracranial lesion; raised ICP; respiratory, hepatic, renal, biliary disease; hypotension, hypovolaemia, shock; pancreatitis; prostatic hypertrophy; adrenocortical insufficiency; debility; 24 hrs prior to pain relieving surgery incl cordotomy; after abdominal surgery; drug, alcohol abuse; serious mental illness; congenital QT prolongation; severe febrile illness; hypothyroidism; withdrawal; narcotic dependence; opioid naive; avoid excess heat to patch site; debility; pregnancy, lactation, children < 18 yrs


Adverse Reactions: Respiratory depression; QT prolongation; euphoria; dependence; GI upset esp constipation; anorexia; sweating; dizziness; headache; somnolence; confusion; pruritus; erythema; rash; application site reaction; anxiety; insomnia; nervousness; paraesthesia; depression; vasodilation; oedema; dyspnoea; taste perversion; asthenia; pain; others, see full PI


Drug Interactions: Nonselective MAOIs (see Contra); selective MAOIs; CNS depressants (eg sedatives, hypnotics, general anaesthetics, other opioids, phenothiazines, centrally acting antiemetics, benzodiazepines, alcohol); drugs that prolong QT (eg antiarrhythmics), cause respiratory depression, hypotension; drugs affecting hepatic metabolism; CYP3A4 inhibitors (eg protease inhibitors, azole antimycotics, Ca channel antagonists, macrolides); enzyme inducers (eg phenobarbitone, carbamazepine, phenytoin, rifampicin); warfarin (poss)


NORSPAN 5 TRANSDERMAL PATCH (Transdermal patch) Prescription required. S8 This product may cause drowsiness.
Buprenorphine (equiv. 5 mcg/hr); gluten free;
Dose: Apply patch every 7 days to intact skin (sites, skin prep, application, removal: see full PI); initially commence with Norspan 5. Titrate; incr at intervals greater than or equal to 3 days as needed by replacing or adding patch (max 2 concurrent patches). Give other analgesics during initiation, titration; change to other analgesic if analgesia inadequate on max Norspan dose. Rotate sites, avoid other opioids 24 hrs after patch removal (see full PI)

Uses/Indications: Partial opioid agonist. Mod to severe pain


Contraindications: Severe respiratory impairment; nonselective MAOIs (within 14 days of stopping MAOI)


Precautions: Not for narcotic dependence treatment, postop use, situations with a narrow therapeutic index, rapidly varying analgesia need; inflammatory bowel, convulsive disorders; head injury; impaired consciousness (undiagnosed); intracranial lesion; raised ICP; respiratory, hepatic, renal, biliary disease; hypotension, hypovolaemia, shock; pancreatitis; prostatic hypertrophy; adrenocortical insufficiency; debility; 24 hrs prior to pain relieving surgery incl cordotomy; after abdominal surgery; drug, alcohol abuse; serious mental illness; congenital QT prolongation; severe febrile illness; hypothyroidism; withdrawal; narcotic dependence; opioid naive; avoid excess heat to patch site; debility; pregnancy, lactation, children < 18 yrs


Adverse Reactions: Respiratory depression; QT prolongation; euphoria; dependence; GI upset esp constipation; anorexia; sweating; dizziness; headache; somnolence; confusion; pruritus; erythema; rash; application site reaction; anxiety; insomnia; nervousness; paraesthesia; depression; vasodilation; oedema; dyspnoea; taste perversion; asthenia; pain; others, see full PI


Drug Interactions: Nonselective MAOIs (see Contra); selective MAOIs; CNS depressants (eg sedatives, hypnotics, general anaesthetics, other opioids, phenothiazines, centrally acting antiemetics, benzodiazepines, alcohol); drugs that prolong QT (eg antiarrhythmics), cause respiratory depression, hypotension; drugs affecting hepatic metabolism; CYP3A4 inhibitors (eg protease inhibitors, azole antimycotics, Ca channel antagonists, macrolides); enzyme inducers (eg phenobarbitone, carbamazepine, phenytoin, rifampicin); warfarin (poss)


NORSPAN 5 TRANSDERMAL PATCH (Transdermal patch) Prescription required. S8 This product may cause drowsiness.
Buprenorphine (equiv. 5 mcg/hr); gluten free;
Dose: Apply patch every 7 days to intact skin (sites, skin prep, application, removal: see full PI); initially commence with Norspan 5. Titrate; incr at intervals greater than or equal to 3 days as needed by replacing or adding patch (max 2 concurrent patches). Give other analgesics during initiation, titration; change to other analgesic if analgesia inadequate on max Norspan dose. Rotate sites, avoid other opioids 24 hrs after patch removal (see full PI)

Chemical name: (2S)-2-[17-(cyclopropylmethyl)- 4, 5alpha-epoxy-3- hydroxy-6-methoxy-6alpha, 14-ethano-14alpha- morphinan-7alpha-yl]-3, 3-dimethylbutan-2-ol. Molecular formula: C29H41NO4. MW: 467.6. CAS: 52485-79-7. Buprenorphine is a white or almost white powder and is very slightly soluble in water, freely soluble in acetone, soluble in methanol and ether and slightly soluble in cyclohexane. The pKa is 8.5.

Norspan Transdermal Patch is a rectangular (10 microgram/hour) or square (5 and 20 microgram/hour) beige coloured matrix patch with rounded corners, marked with the trade name and consisting of a protective liner and functional layers. Proceeding from the outer surface towards the surface adhering to the skin, the layers are (1) a beige coloured web backing layer of polyester material; (2) an adhesive matrix rim without buprenorphine; (3) a separating foil over the adhesive matrix; (4) the buprenorphine containing adhesive matrix; and (5) a release liner (see Figure 1). Before use the release liner covering the adhesive layer is removed and discarded. Please refer to figure 1.

Norspan Transdermal Patch transdermal system is available in three different strengths: 5, 10 and 20 microgram/hour. The composition of all three strengths is identical except for size. The proportion of buprenorphine in the adhesive matrix is the same in each strength (10% by weight). The amount of buprenorphine released from each system per hour is proportional to the surface area of the system. The skin is the limiting barrier to diffusion from the system into the bloodstream.

topActions

Pharmacology. Buprenorphine is a partial opioid agonist, acting at the mu-opioid receptor. It also has antagonistic activity at the kappa-opioid receptor. The opioid agonist activities of buprenorphine are dose related.

Like other opioid agonists, buprenorphine produces dose related analgesia, however a ceiling effect to analgesia is well documented. Buprenorphine binds to and dissociates from the mu receptor slowly, which may account for the prolonged duration of analgesia and, in part, for the limited physical dependence potential observed with the drug.

Buprenorphine produces similar effects to other opioids on the central nervous system, and the cardiovascular, respiratory and gastrointestinal systems, although the intensity and duration of the effects may vary when compared with other opioids. Opioids may also influence the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal or hypothalamic pituitary gonadal axes, including an increase in serum prolactin and decreases in plasma cortisol and testosterone, which can manifest in clinical symptoms.

Since kappa receptor agonist activity is related to psychotomimetic and dysphoric effects, buprenorphine is expected to produce fewer psychotomimetic and dysphoric effects than drugs with kappa agonist activities.

Like other opioid agonists, buprenorphine may produce increases in cerebrospinal fluid pressure, cause altered mentation, mental clouding or amnesia.

Buprenorphine acts to reduce blood pressure in a manner similar to other opioids. Norspan Transdermal Patch application resulted in transient decreases in blood pressure in healthy young and elderly subjects, without clinical adverse events.

Respiratory depression is less common than with full mu agonists, such as morphine, and there appears to be a ceiling effect. When respiratory depression occurs it appears to have a slower onset and longer duration compared to morphine.

Like other opioids buprenorphine may cause nausea, vomiting, constipation and an increase in biliary tract pressure. Effects on the immune system were seen with natural opioids like morphine in in vitro and animal studies, although the clinical significance of these is unknown. It is not known whether buprenorphine, a semisynthetic opioid, has immunological effects similar to morphine.

Buprenorphine can cause dose related miosis and urinary retention in some patients.

Pharmacokinetics. Each Norspan Transdermal Patch provides a steady delivery of buprenorphine for up to seven days. Steady state is achieved by day 3 following the first application. After removal of the Norspan Transdermal Patch, buprenorphine concentrations decline, decreasing approximately 50% in 12 hours (range 10 to 24 hours).

Norspan Transdermal Patch 5, 10 and 20 microgram/hour provide dose proportional increases in total exposure (AUC (area under the curve)) over the seven day application period. Dose proportional increases in plasma concentrations occur at steady state with Norspan Transdermal Patch application for up to 60 days. Accumulation of plasma buprenorphine did not occur during the 60 days.

The rate of buprenorphine release from each patch is proportional to the surface area. Each Norspan Transdermal Patch 5 microgram/hour releases buprenorphine 5 microgram per hour and contains a total of buprenorphine 5 mg. Each Norspan Transdermal Patch 10 microgram/hour releases buprenorphine 10 microgram per hour and contains a total of buprenorphine 10 mg. Each Norspan Transdermal Patch 20 microgram/hour releases buprenorphine 20 microgram per hour and contains a total of buprenorphine 20 mg.

Absorption. Following Norspan Transdermal Patch application, buprenorphine diffuses from the patch through the skin. In clinical pharmacology studies, the median time for Norspan Transdermal Patch 10 microgram/hour to deliver detectable buprenorphine concentrations (25 picogram/mL) was approximately 17 hours. The bioavailability of buprenorphine from a Norspan Transdermal Patch relative to IV (intravenous) is 15% (for all three strengths).

Accidental oral ingestion. Measurable systemic levels of buprenorphine were demonstrated in dogs given Norspan Transdermal Patch by oral administration.

Distribution. Buprenorphine is approximately 96% bound to plasma proteins.

In a study of IV buprenorphine in healthy subjects, the volume of distribution at steady state was 430 L, which is indicative of the high lipophilicity of the drug.

Following IV administration, buprenorphine and its metabolites are secreted into bile, and within several minutes distribute into the cerebrospinal fluid (CSF). CSF concentrations appear to be approximately 15 to 25% of concurrent plasma concentrations.

Metabolism and elimination. Buprenorphine metabolism in the skin following Norspan Transdermal Patch application is negligible. Buprenorphine is eliminated via hepatic metabolism, with subsequent biliary excretion and renal excretion of soluble metabolites. Hepatic metabolism through CYP3A4 and UGT1A1/1A3 enzymes results in two the primary metabolites, norbuprenorphine and buprenorphine 3-O-glucuronide, respectively. Norbuprenorphine is also glucuronidated prior to elimination. Buprenorphine is also eliminated in the faeces within seven days.

In a study in postoperative patients the total clearance of buprenorphine was 55 L/hour.

Norbuprenorphine is the only known active metabolite of buprenorphine. It has been shown to be a respiratory depressant in rats at concentration at least 50-fold those seen following application of Norspan Transdermal Patch 20 microgram/hour.

Specific inhibitors of CYP450 (e.g. ketoconazole, gestodene, nifedipine, norfluoxetine, ritonavir) inhibited formation of the buprenorphine metabolite norbuprenorphine in human microsomes.

Application site. A study in healthy subjects demonstrated that the pharmacokinetic profile of buprenorphine delivered by Norspan Transdermal Patch is similar when applied to the upper outer arm, upper chest, upper back or the side of the chest (midaxillary line, 5th intercostal space).

In a study of healthy subjects applying Norspan Transdermal Patch repeatedly to the same site, immediate reapplication caused increased absorption, without clinical adverse events. For this reason, rotation of application sites is recommended (see Dosage and Administration).

In another study in healthy subjects application of a heating pad directly on the Norspan Transdermal Patch caused a transient 26 to 55% increase in blood concentrations of buprenorphine. Concentrations returned to normal within five hours after the heat was removed. For this reason, applying heat sources such as hot water bottles, heat pads or electric blankets directly to the Norspan Transdermal Patch is not recommended. A heating pad applied to a Norspan Transdermal Patch site directly after patch removal did not alter absorption from the skin depot.
 
temgesics are something i would like to try before fentanyl.

Temgesic are the sublingual version of buprenorphine in a pill form. I'm not sure if you knew that or not. I'm sure that you could put the patch under your tongue and it will absorb just like people do with the fentanyl patches by putting it against their cheeks and gums. I wouldn't advise you to do these since you seem to really need it for pain but it seems that you dabble in the abuse department of your meds, so you could give it a shot with the remainder of your bupe patches. I'm not sure if you will achieve a high of any sort though. It seems people get tolerant to buprenorphine pretty fast.
 
i Meant having kratom with bupe. Had an 8 mg bupe sub with patch the other day. I think as long as as bupe dose below 2mg it doesn't compete as strongly for the position.
Fuck it i going to put another patch on now.
I read tramadol mixes good with bupe.
But i hate tramadol although i might try some tommorrow.
it doesn't make sense this patch i only on 10mg ones that last a week 10 ug/h that doesn't make sense.
i got 2 patches on. getting more soon i'll be covered in patches.
 
^an 8mg sub with a patch = 2 x doses of buprenorphine;)

i cant really understand what you're trying to say but the patch has a total of 10mg of bupe on it. they transdermally release 10ug/h. 1 day worth of bupe = 24 hours x .01mg = 0.24mg/day. over a week = 7 x 0.24 = 1.68mg.

is that what you meant by it not making sense? they actually put more drug in the patch than is released?

with my 2 x 20mg patches on i absorb just under 8mg of buprenorphine a week
 
its doesn't make sense to me or the doctor either.
I read it on MIMS as well
how do we extract those patches?
i heard lemon juice and microwave it. prison talk
 
@leftwing - why is your docter telling you you will get sick switching from bupe to fent?

Thats not true at all. Switching from Fent to Bupe would be difficult - but not the other way round.

I wish we had Subutex in patch form here in the UK.
 
i used to be on norspan patches (bupe) 20mg for about a year and i had to taper off very slowly. at first i tried cutting it in half and sticking down with very strong medical which mind you worked better than the adhesive it comes with. but got very agitated. i ended up having to cut off a millimetre strip down one side every week until i finally got down to a small square. so yeah my wd's were strong
 
^ so what u do with square whats it like.
how do u get the goodies out
 
can anyone tell me if there is a better way to do fentanyl patches? I have simply been chewing on them for a couple of hours and then swallowing them. I get high, but not high enough! There has to be a more efficient way of taking these. I can't afford to buy more.
 
I think bupe is awesome for pain management. I'm ecstatic I have access to a strong analgesic that kills my pain very well but doesn't leave me in a zombie like state.

I'm in the states so the patches aren't here yet. I'll probably be trying them once they get here,

I'm just curious why you weren't given the pill form of bupe. It's the same chemical, so why the patch? What better about the patch vs the pill?

To bad you only had the patch. Otherwise you could maybe compare the efficacy of the patch vs the pills. Has anyone has both and can comment?

Bupe IMO is like he ideal pain med (at least for me), works very well at small doses and doesn't have the usual negative effects of opiates cuz its not a full agonist. Doesn't have side effects like ennui for example. Just the opposite in case, its like an antidepressant.
 
i Meant having kratom with bupe. Had an 8 mg bupe sub with patch the other day. I think as long as as bupe dose below 2mg it doesn't compete as strongly for the position.
Fuck it i going to put another patch on now.
I read tramadol mixes good with bupe.
But i hate tramadol although i might try some tommorrow.
it doesn't make sense this patch i only on 10mg ones that last a week 10 ug/h that doesn't make sense.
i got 2 patches on. getting more soon i'll be covered in patches.

lol. Got a funny image of you being the patchman. =D
 
Bupe sucks recreationally. You are just wasting your time trying to get high off bupe patches. I'm on Sub Maintenance and it's good for addiction treatment and recovery but no fun to abuse unless you are a noob.
 
^an 8mg sub with a patch = 2 x doses of buprenorphine;)

i cant really understand what you're trying to say but the patch has a total of 10mg of bupe on it. they transdermally release 10ug/h. 1 day worth of bupe = 24 hours x .01mg = 0.24mg/day. over a week = 7 x 0.24 = 1.68mg.

is that what you meant by it not making sense? they actually put more drug in the patch than is released?

with my 2 x 20mg patches on i absorb just under 8mg of buprenorphine a week

I worked it out before getting on them as 10mg dived 7 (days) = 1.5mg (give or take) but patch says .01mg per hour so wtf is going on dont tell me theres 8+mgs left in patch at end of 7 days surely not..
 
Action of Norspan:

Buprenorphine stimulates the mu-opioid receptor which exerts primary analgesic effects. It also blocks the activity of kappa-opioid receptor. The opioid agonist activities of buprenorphine are dose related. This means that above a certain dose there is no further analgesic effect.

Each Norspan Transdermal Patch delivers buprenorphine over a period of seven days. Steady state is achieved by day 3 following the first application. After removal of the Norspan Transdermal Patch, approximately 50% buprenorphine concentration remains after 12 to 24 hours.

Following Norspan Transdermal Patch application, buprenorphine diffuses from the patch through the skin. Buprenorphine has only approximately 15% bioavailability as compared to intravenous administration and is highly protein bound. Buprenorphine metabolism in the skin following Norspan Transdermal Patch application is negligible. Buprenorphine is eliminated via hepatic metabolism, with subsequent biliary excretion and renal excretion of soluble metabolites. Buprenorphine is also eliminated in the faeces within seven days.

So how does this change the final value?

6*15%=90%~100% (To make the math easy)

6*0.01mg/hour=0.06mg/hour

0.06mg*24 hours/day=1.44mg/day

1.44mg*7 days/week = 10.08mg/week

q.e.d.


So basically, if the BA of transdermal buprenorphine is greater than 15% then you are getting more than 0.01mg/hour from your patch.
 
Last edited:
Just found this article today on Pubmed:

Equipotent doses to switch from high doses of opioids to transdermal buprenorphine.Mercadante S, Casuccio A, Tirelli W, Giarratano A.

Pain Relief and Palliative Care Unit, La Maddalena Cancer Center and University of Palermo, Via San Lorenzo 312, 90146 Palermo, Italy. [email protected]

INTRODUCTION: The aim of this study was to evaluate the equianalgesic ratio of transdermal buprenorphine (TD BUP) with oral morphine and TD fentanyl in a sample of consecutive cancer patients receiving stable doses of 120-240 mg of oral morphine or 50-100 microg of TD fentanyl, reporting adequate pain and symptom control. MATERIALS, METHODS, AND RESULTS: Patients receiving daily stable doses of opioids for more than 6 days, with no more than two doses of oral morphine (20 and 40 mg, respectively) as needed, were switched to TD BUP using a fentanyl-BUP ratio of 0.6:0.8 and an oral morphine-BUP ratio of 70:1. Opioid doses, pain and symptom intensity, global satisfaction, and number of breakthrough medication were recorded before switching (T0), 3 days after (T3), and 6 days after (T6). Eleven patients were recruited in a period of 1 year, and data were complete for ten patients. The mean age was 61.6 (SD 9.5), and five patients were males. No significant changes in pain and symptom intensity were found, except improvement in reported constipation (p = 0.014), as well as in global satisfaction with the analgesic treatment. No significant changes in breakthrough pain medication were observed. CONCLUSION: The results of this study suggest that stable patients receiving relatively high doses of oral morphine or TD fentanyl could be safely switched to TD BUP, by using a ratio of 70:1 and 0.6:0.8, respectively, maintaining the same level of analgesia.

If this is correct, and I have no reason to think otherwise;

10ug/hour Norspan patch will deliver the similar pain relief as 100mg Morphine a day.

That is pretty amazing.

I wonder what these patches are like to withdraw from? Any experiences?
 
If I took my last dose of tramadol after a big taper, and that was at 4pm (sunday) and now it's 2:15am monday would I go into precipitated w-d's if I put on one of these patches, I have the 5mcg per hour one...but I think it'd be cool to go to bed (I work at afternoon-night) with the patch on, and since the delivery is so slow I'll just knock me down with some flurazepam,zolpidem and quetiapine for 12 hours and wake up with 60micrograms already in my system...l.8in case I get precipitated w-d's taking Tramadol and-or Morphine after will it help? On the booklet it says to keep taking analgesics till the 3rd day....but I think they mean NSAIDs not opioid analgesics.

Also did anyone found a way to extract the 85% remainding bupe from these patches? it bothers me a lot knowing most of my bupe is going to waste.......Plugging has a very good BA around 50%....thing is the time release thing, otherwise extracting these and plugging sounds good, if anyone knows a way to IV that'd be great.....also can I cut strips, play around like with a fenbtanyl patch or it's release matrix makes it impossible to abuse?

Arrghhh I'm soooo desperate I'll wait and if I get no replies by 4am (12 hours after last opioid dose) I'll stick the shit, to all of you who used them which place do you think it's the best to stick it on? I was thinking in the middle of the chest near the heart..... I also know heat makes them release more bupe, so later I'll try that but I want the patch to last me the whole week, I won't be applying heat if it means I'll get more bupe but for less time....so am I fine to dose or would I withdraw? what do I do if I start w-ding? take some morphine and tramadol or given bupe's ultra high affinity to the µ receptor would it be a waste.....but then it's 5MICROGRAMS per hours as oppossed to 8mg sublingually in 10-15mins or rectal-snorted-IV....... and I'm using these patches for manteinance purposes.

If I decide to put on the patch and I don't go into precipitated w-d's if I dose my tramadol tomorrow for the SSRI-SNRI properties would be appropiate? I just wanna get rid of the opies and stay on bupe (eventually I know I'll end up rx'd 2 20mg patches a week) and start taking naltrexone around day 3, would 50mg naltrexone have any negative effect if I have 360µ Buprenorphine in my bloodstream?

Thanks a lot
 
tramadol and bupe are fine to dose together, man. you've no worries for precip wd's:)

best place to wear them is the upper body region; chest, biceps, shoulders.

i never bothered trying an extraction on these, i just swallowed the patches whole to get a buzz off them, but i was pretty opiate naive during those times so even with the low oral BA i still caught a buzz.
 
Thanks a lot mate!!!! Do you think if I cut off a li'l bit of the strip, let dissolve in ethanol and plug away would I get a buzz? or would the time release matrix just stick there up my arsechwitz? well I plan on cutting 1-5th of the patch and let it sit overnight in ethanol dunno how many mls around 3 and then mix with 7ml water....if another solvent comes to mind let me know....also did you find it a hassle to take showers-toweling etc on these patches? have you ever removed them and placed them back or would that void them useless....I'm planning on using loads of surgical tape, it's summer down here (like down ther in QLD :p ) and I'm sweating buckets and taking 2-3 showers a day as wel as going swimming....I'd hate to loose my patch at my apartment's pool...Thanks loads for the info :) Actually I'm gonna drink a liter heineken and take some zolpidem now since I'm so happy I can't sleep....

Are you still on the patch dude? if so on what dose? and as for manteinance which dose do you think would be appropiate for someone with a moderate habit (60-100mg oral morphine- 600mg tramadol (i know, I'm rxd clonazepam and pregabaline, but stupid anyway- 400mg codeine- 75mg hydrocodone) each on their own gave me a great buzz mixed with benzos at those doses, like yourself I took tramadol for years, I quit a hefty Heroin and Oxycontin habit only to start abusing tramadol lol....well thanks a lot for the answer in a couple of days I'll let you know how it's working :) (/me starts going all excited to the medicine cabinet with a razorblade in his hand)
 
hey man, im just about to nod off, so i'll get back to answer your questions in a couple hours:)
 
Top