So we both had a third experiment in dreams last night. 550ug HPBCD (hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin) complexed drug buccally applied was our most potent to date and kicked both our asses (especially hers), a +4 for her (except lacking spiritually) and an upper +3 for me with only 550ug applied to inner upper lip for 20 minutes, saliva and spit held in mouth for only 15 minutes, then swallowed, while strip allowed to sit an extra 5 minutes under tongue after being transferred. There is a characteristic faint "numbing" sensation of taste felt in the mouth at approximately 20 to 30 minutes after applying blotter that slowly fades away to nothing at the 45 minute point. After the 20 minute blotter soak on upper gum, we transferred it to under the tongue to hold it there for about 5 minutes as well.
Now, whether you have freebase or hcl 25i-nbome does not matter, as I have done more research and found that the cyclodextrin also increases the penetration and absorption of even hcl bound drug. It is useful for either the freebase or the salt. The cyclodextrin binds or entraps any lipohilic part of the molecule then transfers it easily in the saliva which it can then absorb into (as it has now been made very water soluble), to the surfaces of the mucosal where it then also increases penetration effectiveness many fold, some studies showing 95% absorption in 20 minutes when complexed to the very hydrophobic (water fearing) molecule testosterone. 25i-nbome is also hydro-phobic. HPBCD works miracles on improving the absorption of hydrophobic drugs.
I've found that it is best NOT to add extra hydroxy-propyl-beta-cyclodextrin powder on top the blotter piece, as it is not needed, it will only serve to obstruct the entry of the allready HPBCD complexed drug, using "too much" cyclodextrin is not advised. Just as the companie's websites who sell cyclodextrin advise, you want to use neither "too little" nor "too much" but just the right amount. I have found x9 times the CD (cyclodextrin) to drug as the manufacturer suggest to be the perfect amount, although you can use up to x20 the amount of cyclodextrin to drug as well, just don't go sprinkling on extra huge amounts of powder to the allready soaked and complexed blotter piece as I used to do in the past.
As the alcohol solution of cyclodextrin and drug on blotter dries in front of a fan heater over about a 10 minute period, during the last stages of evaporation, the cyclodextrin fully complexes to the drug, then it is ready for application sublingually (under tongue) or buccally (on upper inner lip).
anyhow, long ago, 100mg of 25i-nbome had been slowly sprinkled (added over a 5 minute period) to a spinning 100ml of 95% etoh (drinkable alcohol measured out on a tall 100ml volumetric cylinder) on a magnetic stirrer with stir bar. This was allowed to spin 12 hours.....then 900mg of HPBCD powder had been added as well over a 5 minute period, this complete solution was then allowed to spin for an additional 12 hours. Then after spinning, it was put into freezer in a jar, it has been kept like this for a couple months now, no loss of potency and should store like this indefinately. This gave me a soution of 100ug of drug to each 0.1 ml on the 1ml insulin syringe. If I were to mix this again, I would use only 50 ml of 95% etoh to give me a concentration of 200ug of drug per each 0.1ml, so that would mean less alcohol to evaporate from the blotter, meaning half the time to make/evaporate alcohol from blotter.
1. this was the most potent buccal experiment to date, it came on rapid, within only 1 hour of putting the 1.75" x 5/16" blotter strip above the inner lip (and letting it sit there for 20 minutes), we were both at full effects. I bet putting a square piece of soaked and fully dried blotter under tongue for 15 minutes would be very highly effective as well.
2. 550ug (0.55)ml of the solution from the jar was sucked up via insulin syringe, and the alcohol solution was slowly deposited back and forth on the blotter strip (similar to a cre*t whitening strip size), the blotter strip was then allowed to dry in front of a holmes fan heater for 10 minutes, it dried rather quickly since no extra cyclodextrin powder was sprinkled on top the blotter. If I were to mix this again, I would use only 50 ml of 95% etoh to give me a concentration of 200ug of drug per each 0.1ml, so that would mean less alcohol to evaporate from the blotter, meaning half the time to make/evaporate alcohol from blotter.
3. The blotter contained 4.9mg of cyclodextrin from the solution and 550ug of the drug from the solution (as there is x9 the amount of cyclodextrin to drug) remember as mixed above (550 x 9 = 4.9mg of cyclodextrin).
4. two of these blotter strips were made and each subject applied to upper lip, and it was allowed to adhere to the upper inner lip for 20 minutes, saliva and spit was help that was generated for 15 minutes, then swallowed, but the strip was still allowed to sit on upper inner lip for 5 more minutes.
5. energy come-up was felt within only 30 minutes, and by 1 hour, full effects were noted, the cyclodextrin-complexed drug came on quite quickly and felt nearly just like it had been nasally administered...the cyclodextrin not only allowed the drug to be absorbed very quickly via sublingual or buccal route, but also caused about 95% of it to be absorbed as opposed to approximately 50% or so normally (non-complexed) imho.
6. She was at a +4 within 1.5 hour, and I was at an upper +3 by 1.5 hour.
7. During the come-up her ego was softly relenquished and she lost the sense of who she was and what she was doing for a period, there was anxiety for her during the comeup portion as it was so strong in its effects but after the 2 hour comeup period she felt fully relaxed when all the anxiety had completely passed she told me. I on the other hand did not experience any anxiety as I was used to quite strong mind and come-up states such as this. I remember standing to the side of a mirror at one point and being able to observe myself as well as my reflection "from a third party" perspective which had never happened to me on a psychedelic trip before.
8. She was experiencing very heavy visuals, invisible smoke billing from the floors into the air, pink and purple colors forming in mid-air, glitter being seen everywhere and energy trails and shooters, patterns seen on skin...when looking into a computer monitor for me, the image on the screen morphed and changed into other things without any need for mind or eye tricks on my part, very similar to my acid tryptamine like visuals with things morphing and changing into other things, energy glitter sparklies were seen darting too and fro the whole time as well, in the other room, things were beginning to expand and shrink and grow. She saw lots of block patterning and geometric formations, it was almost "too visual" during the comeup for her, like walking through air castles of patterns and formations.
9. Music sounded absolutely outstanding and there was extreme empathy and a dominant euphoria was experienced during the first few hours by myself, it seemed to remind me of my first "E" experience of long ago, extreme empathy and heavy euphoria, just incredible bliss experienced by my self. Looking at TV, ugly faces were experienced as "more grotesque" and beautiful faces and bodies were experienced as "incredibly beautiful" just like with my tryptamine like visuals in the past with other substances. As the anxiety had passed for her, she was having a very enjoyable time, both subjects had a blast after the comeup period till the trip ended. For some reason the visual part of the trip had ended abruptly at only 4.5 hours after applying blotter, could have been that the cyclodextrin caused the drug to be absorbed nearly as fast (but not quite as totally fast) as when it have been nasally applied, so therefore a quicker comeup with a shorter plateau, anyhow, all the trips I have had with this stuff have been different from each one in different ways so I would not expect the length of the trips to always be the exact same either, not to mention I did not sprinkle on an extra 5 to 10mg of cyclodextrin on the blotter first before applying the alcohol/cyclodextrin/drug drops from the insulin needle, so by only using the proper amount of cyclodextrin to begin with (I avoided adding extra CD), the stuff came on rather quickly and with great absorption effectiveness. I'm not quite able to understand how this compound creates the incredible delightful best non-mdma euphoria that it does, but it has done it each time for me, really interesting.
10. For us to both experience (for her a +4) and for me an upper +3, the buccal cyclodextrin proved extremely effective. Don't add extra cyclodextrin to the blotter before applying, you don't want to overdo it, too much can obstruct effective absorption, but the proper amount used (x 9 times the amount of drug) is perfect, with unbelievable effectiveness. I could never imagine administering this 550ug amount nasally, the buccally applied cyclodextrin complexed stuff had the intensity of nasal allready with the imho same exact absorption effectivness (about 95% is absorbed when complexed to CD (cylodextrin)....I am apt to say "are you kidding....apply this via nasal???, no way!!" it was super potent and VERY intense with CD complxed applied buccally....there is no way I would want to go above this intensity, that would just be insane, the buccal was the most intensity we could both stand as is.
11. how did it seem like acid and differ from acid?
1. it had a slightly shorter duration of visual effects (for this trip anyways) due to the rapid absorption sublingually/buccally (quite similar to nasally applied, about exact same absorption percentage as nasal, but came on about 20 minutes later than as a nasally applied trip would begin), the heavy visuals were about 4.5 hours long, with only the headspace of the trip continuing beyond that.
2. The visuals would be more comparable as erny had stated long ago to the visuals of DOI, however I experienced very tryptamine like visuals (similar to acid visuals) when staring at images, as they would morph and change into other images over and over, with hidden images behind the main image that would form, and they too would morph and change, and so on and so into their own little worlds of visual life. energy glitter and "sparklies" would shoot too and fro constantly when looking at something, energy sparkles, lots of color and beauty and everything looked very alive and full of energy.
3. All sense of time was lost for both of us and it may have had the visuals of DOI and lots of visuals (similar for me) to acid visuals when staring at things, but the headspace felt like that of the acid headspace for the most part, very enjoyable with overflowing euphoria and empathy, the "human-ness" of humanity was experienced for the duration of the trip, feelings, empathy, connections, emotions amplified and complex. She found the visuals different from acid (for the most part) but she did comment that the headspace was very similar to that of acid headspace as well, but that the trip was way less spiritual for her than an acid trip. She also did not see the same typical mayan/archatypical patterning and imaging as she was used to seeing on acid, she missed seeing those images. Instead she saw way different types of patterning and "blocky/geometric" imaging, strobe flashes, smoke billowing and glitter with lots of purple and pink coloring everywhere. She remarked that she loved seeing the brilliant colored sparkly energized glitter darting around everywhere, and missed it when the visuals ended abruptly for both of us at the 4.5 hour point. I am not surprised at this fact since acid hits a whole dog-gone range of receptor sites along with 5-ht2A, 5-ht2C, 5-ht2B, 5-ht6 that 25i-nbome hits. The 5-ht1 sites which acid hits probably contribute to "well-being and satisfaction (spiritually?)" as opposed to 5-ht2a agonism. mescaline also hits 5-ht1a and 5-ht1e and it is also quite spiritual, I imagine combining a 25i-nbome trip with mescaline would give you tons of spiritual feelings and connections along with adding archetypical imaging (seeing lots of real archatypical images and even myan/tribal images, etc.) along with the typical 25i-nbome images. with eyes closed I saw plenty of movie type images of people going about business as well as fractal patterning. I need to explore the CEV's more in the future, but I was trying to pay attention to her trip more as well, so spent little time with eyes closed. During the 1st 2 hours of the comeup she remarked that the visuals were too much for her, she was relieved when the anxiety passed after 2 hours and the visuals were tolerable and she felt relaxed at last. She did remark that music & all sounds sounded just as extraordinary as it does on acid. At the peak, we both watched our favorite movie, and it was like seeing it for the first time, details were seen that we never paid attention to before, the plot and characters were felt as if we were there in the actors and actresses place sharing the experience with them & being emotionally drawn into their world, just an overall amazing experience, and every little sound and all music heard with crystal clear perception of the highest level, putting together new thoughts in your mind....sensory amplification & sensual enchantment. Never at any point was there any nausea, gastointestinal distress or other physical side effects for either one of us, zero body load as with acid. In contrast to her, with this substance, I enjoyed myself during the entire come-up portion as well, my ego was for the most part intact during the comeup & I had no anxiety, whereas hers was relinquished for a period.
4. 25i-nbome is "it's own special psychedelic" just as acid is "it's own special psychedelic" but I am extremely grateful that 25i-nbome shares much of the same headspace as acid along with the good humor (we laughed a lot at movies like funny or die, saw 4 episodes) and lots of empathy and euphoria/joy just like with acid. There were complex thoughts and art & music was amplified beyond comprehension, very fun and joyous after the comeup period. One of my previous experiences in dreams with 25i helped me to change certain behaviors and be an even better person, it has good entheogenic life changing qualities that you may not even notice the night of the trip, but may take hold of your thoughts the morning after. It leaves one with no headache the next day, in fact the next morning you have good energy and feel remarkably refreshed (just like a good acid trip) as if the "reset" button has been pressed on your serotonic brain, allowing you to "make a fresh start" and see things from a brand new perspective.