• 🇳🇿 🇲🇲 🇯🇵 🇨🇳 🇦🇺 🇦🇶 🇮🇳
    Australian & Asian
    Drug Discussion


    Welcome Guest!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
  • AADD Moderators: swilow | Vagabond696

NEWS: Sydney Star Observer: When do we give up G?

sneeka

Bluelighter
Joined
May 1, 2002
Messages
40
Health | When do we give up G?

By David Mills

ARQ GETS RAIDED, CLUBBERS KEEP DROPPING AND ONE YOUNG MAN DIES FROM AN OVERDOSE. WHAT’S IT GOING TO TAKE FOR THE GAY AND LESBIAN COMMUNITY TO GIVE UP ON G?


There is no easy answer to the question posed in the introduction to this story.

This is the problem: on the one hand, drug educators feel they can’t give sufficient “harm minimisation” messages to GHB users because the drug is inherently risky; on the other hand, they think that people are going to take it anyway and demonising the drug, or the users, will just drive the drug-taking underground.

It’s a helluva Catch-22, but then – it’s a helluva fucked-up situation as well. Police claim that 11 people showed up at hospitals last Saturday night having overdosed on G – most of whom, they say, had been at Arq nightclub (the club owners say they were aware of only two overdoses on the night). The Ruby party in August saw five people drop after taking the drug and, on the same weekend, a 20-year-old gay man died of a GHB overdose.

But still the partying goes on … and when something bad happens, like a death or an overdose, the excuses come out: It Must Have Been A Bad Batch; He/She Was Inexperienced And Didn’t Know What He/She Was Doing.

Drug educator Paul Dillon, who writes the Star’s weekly column The Deal On Drugs, describes the “bad batch” excuse as “ridiculous and stupid”.

“[The term] ‘bad batch’ implies that there are good batches, and the reality is that this is a risky drug, and it’s a cop-out to say there was something wrong with [the batch],” he says.

The idea that it’s only inexperienced users who overdose on G is another fallacy, Dillon argues.

“No matter how much experience you’ve had, things can still go wrong. If something hasn’t gone wrong yet, it probably will eventually – and you can’t say that for most other drugs,” he says.

This is backed up by research, undertaken by the National Drug and Alcohol Research Council (where Dillon works) and ACON two years ago. That research showed that while only one percent of GHB users thought they could be susceptible to an overdose, 50 percent of users had overdosed and 25 percent of those who had overdosed had done so on more than one occasion. (Staff at St Vincent’s hospital have been known to treat the same patient for GHB overdoses as many as six times.)

“It is very, very difficult to give harm minimisation messages for this drug, because the difference between having a good time and finding yourself unconscious in a hospital ward is very, very close,” Dillon says.

Full story HERE

One would think it's only the Gay & Lesbian people taking G 8)
 
i couldn't agree more with the dangers of taking G.

it's VERY dose senistive and fucks up alot of peeps.

be very careful with G aka 'liquid ecstasy'......cause it can kill you!

if unsure.....do everybody a favour and don't touch it!
 
It's such a touchy drug that merely being in a warmer than usual room coupled with a slightly larger dose can result in a g-sleep. It happened to me despite being a regular G user over a 7 month period. Result, Ambulance and a $630 bill for having no insurance.

I still take it, but I am far more careful than what I used to be ... and I thought I was careful already!
 
Lollymuncher: Why do you think that? What has stupidity got to do with this issue?

Taking risks in the name of having a good time is what nearly everyone who reads this board does. We SHOULD always aim to reduce the risks associated with taking our drugs of choice. Very unfortunately, in my opinion, the 'sweet spot' for a GHB dose appears to be just on the low side of falling asleep, and since the margin of error is so low, MANY people take unintentional overdoses. The difficulty lies in the variation of the body's response to the drug - the same does doesn't always affect you the same way, PARTICULARLY in combination with stimulants or depressants.

I think there's a conceptual difficulty in dosing GHB like a pill. People take a 1-hit dose of GHB aiming to hit that sweet spot, and it can be very hit and miss due to the variation in the body set prior to the dose. If people took 'fractionated' doses over a slightly longer period, this could allow them to halt the dosing at a point where they felt comfortable, without overshooting the mark. Also unfortunately, with GHB the duration is very short, which can make fractionating a dose difficult - but I really don't see any problem at all with taking HALF the dose recommended from previous experiences or others who have used that batch of liquid, followed up by smaller top up doses within the next hour to reach a comfortable dose level.

BigTrancer :)
 
BT - I've seen the same group of guys out most weekends and almost 100% of the time one of them collaspes. Myself (as well as other people) have tried to instill some harm minimisation knowledge into them only to see them do it again the next weekend. Of course it's only the minority who are like this...my comment may have been to flipant cause most OD are due to the tricky nature of getting the dose right rather than stupidity.
 
No worries - I probably jumped on your comment right away anyhow, because the word 'stupid' has been thrown around quite a bit lately in this forum and it usually starts fights :) I definitely agree that people going out and passing out from GHB/1,4B every weekend is risky behaviour and I hope that they take more care before something goes seriously wrong. If they won't learn from the mistakes of other people though, they will eventually make thier own.

BigTrancer :)
 
ahhh the g.. or 1-4b.. or whatever u are taking...
people need to learn, its not like taking pills... you take one... sure... then u THINK its worn off... so you go to have another dose.. but its not that simple.. even though u think the effects have worn off, doesnt mean they are all gone... so on the second top up, dont have a FULL dose again. have at max, half the dose.. if that. and wait.. dont go having another, and another cause u think it hasnt kicked in.
 
There are some 'date-rape drug test coasters' that are available I think; apparently, you can wipe a few drops of your drink on the coaster and watch for colour changes that indicate your drink may have been spiked. But that's about all that exists in the way of (possible) GHB testing *I think*.

BigTrancer :)
 
I wonder if the overdose rate has gone up as GHB/GBL/1,4BD has become more and more illegal and thus more and more notorious.

In the days when everyone with half a clue was making there own from imported GBL at a known concentration, or importing bottles of 1,4BD at EXACTLY 12.5% concentration, overdoses i am going to assume were less common.
It certainly carried risks but being able to calculate your dose to the tenth of a gram reduces them dramatically.

This is merely an observation and not meant to imply i think it should still be widely available as it once was - but it is a difficult dilemma.

I think it is a very risky club drug and should be left for a home environment.
Due to its reputation for amazing sex, it is not surprising then that inside a gay club it is far more of a problem - simply because sex and clubbing is more closely interconnected within the gay scene. I dont necessarily mean literally but of course there is always that too depending on the venue.
 
In the days when everyone with half a clue was making there own from imported GBL at a known concentration, or importing bottles of 1,4BD at EXACTLY 12.5% concentration, overdoses i am going to assume were less common.
Hehe, yeah Biscuit, but that was back when people also believed that a 'top up' dose should be LESS than 75% of the starter dose, not 100+%.... ;)

BT :)
 
There is a batch of G/1,4B currently in Sydney that I'm concerned about.

I have spoken to a number of experienced users who have used it in the past two weeks.

It has a strong chemical odour and a similar but even more revolting chemical taste than the usual 1,4B (hard to imagine, but true). However, unlike other batches, it is very caustic and actually burns the mouth and lips. (The people using it usually measure their dose with a needle-less 1ml or 3ml syringe and often squirt this directly into the mouth then wash down with liquid, or they dilute it in a small amount of liquid first and swallow that.)

One person squirted 1ml onto his tongue yesterday and instantly and violently vomited - ie without swallowing it.

Another was diagnosed this morning with reflux oesophagitis and suspects it is due to being "burnt" by this "G", which he had on Saturday night. (Or it could just be coincidence.)

Most report that this is the strongest and most pleasurable "G" effect they have experienced, so, assuming that it is just more concentrated, they have lowered their doses accordingly. (At least one, however, felt that the experience was markedly less intense than usual).

What makes me think that this is not any of the usual G variants is that it does not freeze, even in the freezer. Pure 1,4B freezes at 19 degrees C.

It doesn't taste salty, so it's not GHB, nor soapy, so not GBL.

I was wondering if the manufacturer has only partially processed some of the industrial solvents used in manufacturing it, which might explain the burning. Or that there is some other toxic contaminant in this batch. Or perhaps it is one of the new variants (GHV?) that have emerged around San Francisco?

Does anyone have any ideas on what this could be?
 
sneeka said:
Health | When do we give up G?

By David Mills

ARQ GETS RAIDED, CLUBBERS KEEP DROPPING AND ONE YOUNG MAN DIES FROM AN OVERDOSE. WHAT’S IT GOING TO TAKE FOR THE GAY AND LESBIAN COMMUNITY TO GIVE UP ON G?


I don't think you are right in saying this. G is not only used by the gay and lesbian community or clubbers. Think about how many people who go out drinking at bars and pubs and take the lethal combo of G and alcohol. I am sure there have been many od's relating to these types of social groups.

Personally I have tried G twice and had fun both times, but at the time I had taken nothing else and had fairly small doses and made shore that someone had speed to help me out if something did go wrong. For the risk involved in taking it and the over all effects, I don't rate G anywhere near as a good pill or speed.
 
D&AWg:
I've noticed that when 1,4 is kept in a plastic container, the longer it stays in there the more completely gross it tastes and the possibility of vomiting from even 1ml of undilute increases a whole lot.
 
In the days when everyone with half a clue was making there own from imported GBL at a known concentration, or importing bottles of 1,4BD at EXACTLY 12.5% concentration, overdoses i am going to assume were less common.
It certainly carried risks but being able to calculate your dose to the tenth of a gram reduces them dramatically.

This is a generalisation, but most "random" people i have come across tend to dose concentrate rather than dilute. Alcohol isn't sold 100% proof for a reason. IMHO it should still be mixed to the 1:8 ratio of Puritech and the like. I just can't see any reason not to. Its less fiddly and flattens out the dose curve considerably...

BTW:

Or perhaps it is one of the new variants (GHV?) that have emerged around San Francisco?
I have seen the same stuff in Melbourne and initially thought the same thing. It was about all i could come up with. it was especially odd b/c it looked and behaved like something that had been diluted but the strength remained approximately the same. Its easy enough to dilute concentrate without it "appearing" to have been diluted but you cannot do this and retain the same strength, which is what made this stuff so unique.
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys. I had thought about the possibility of this substance breaking down the plastic, which might well explain the awful taste.

But it doesn't explain the burning, which is quite severe - and I've never heard of any other G variant burning before. This is the aspect I'm most concerned about, as it has obvious health implications. If this stuff is pretty toxic, I'd like to understand how and why, and warn people to avoid it.

Incidentally I raised this subject here rather than in the "liquid ecstasy in Sydney" thread because the people in question happen to be ARQ regulars, and I thought others from the same network might look here and have info on this batch.

IMHO it should still be mixed to the 1:8 ratio of Puritech and the like. I just can't see any reason not to.

You make a good point about dilution flattening out the dose curve. However, the reason most people swallow concentrate is that you only have to swallow that vile tasting stuff once - diluting increases volume which means more swallows!

In the case of this burny batch, however, the users in question say some diluting is essential to reduce the burn.
 
The strong tasting G could be GHV or GVL as what I've heard is they apparently taste a lot worse than GBL & BDO. It doesn't explain why they found the dose to be strong because while GHV/GVL are meant to be more effective at binding to the GHB receptors there is meant to be a plateau in effect so you don't get too fucked up.

from a site that sells GVL:
"Real World Effects
As we are getting more feedback, it is becoming apparent that the subjective effects of 4-pentanolide and GHB/GBL are not identical. It seems that this product does not produce a "high" quite the way GBL and GHB do -- particularly that weird feeling in the front of the head. Instead, it seems to be more of a mental and physical anxiolytic effect (basically, you feel very relaxed and happy, but not "fucked up" -- kind of like with Xanax or Valium). There also seems to be a definite plateau -- meaning 2.5 to 5ml produces as much of an effect as 10-15ml, and it seems to last longer than GHB or GBL. I am not completely certain why this is -- perhaps absorbtion or transport accross the blood brain barrier becomes saturated (this is the case for GHB, though apparently at a higher dose)."

the plot thickens :)
 
:\ Just to thicken the plot a bit more... I have discussed again with one of these people who is closer to the source and is adamant that it is GBL!

It's hard to put the taste in words but I would not describe it as soapy, more chemical, not the same as 1,4B but not that different either. On the other hand a chemist friend smelled it and is adamant that the smell is acetone.

I saw a number of different clear plastic containers with this stuff in yesterday and all were turning white/opaque in patches where it was reacting with the plastic. One concern I have is that if it eats plastic, does that mean it eats your insides too? Certainly the mouth burning is really marked, like getting battery or pool acid in your mouth.

As far as the info on GVL etc is concerned, as I mentioned before, while one of these people reported a somewhat different, plateau-like experience (not as high as usual with 1,4B), all the others really went off on it and were very happy. One said, "It's as high as you'd want to go." The consensus was that the absolute maximum dose for a guy of average weight would be 2.5ml.

Final comment: The article that started this thread is from the Sydney Star Observer, a gay newspaper for gays and lesbians and specifically discussing G use in the gay and lesbian community. ARQ is (mostly) a gay club. This may have looked a bit odd here on Bluelight if seen out of that context, but there was no suggestion that G is only used by gays and lesbians.%)

Thanks for the intelligent feedback people - more please.
 
Top