Selegiline (l-deprenyl) - too good to be true?

Thread split from

Piracetam - does it work?

I'm interested in hearing if anyone has ever tried L-dephrenyl (Selegiline). This stuff has been used in advanced parkinsons and works by amongst other things irreversibly binding to MAO-B.

http://www.science.smith.edu/departments/Biochem/Chm_357/dao-sas.pdf

It almost sounds too good to be true, especially since it's available on prescription in Australia at around the same per month as many supplements and isn't rated as a drug of dependance.

My GP had no hesitation in offering a script when I enquired about it. He said that although it had received some good reports early on, there was little evidence (from his experience) of its effectiveness as an anti-parkinsons drug.

But what of it's other qualities? Anyone know someone who has done a course of it

i've been using Piracetam for about 20 years, and i know that its been used for a long time before then, apparently there are no long term, or for that matter, any toxic manifestations. infcat an MD was quoted saying that "it cant possibly have any pharmacological effects because its so non-toxic"

p_d, l-deprenyl (Selegeline, Davur) is an amazing substance, i've done about 10 courses, 5 mg/d or 5mg evry other day, although some fairly strange effects seem to develop at doses >5 mg/d, especially when poteniated by l-phenylalanine (signigficant increase in telepathic receptivity in my case). apparently also prevents MDMA-induced neurotoxicity.

suffice to say, the antidepressant action of this combo is far greater than that of ANY SSRIs - without the horrible somatic side effects and permanent synaptic rewiring of the latter.

cognition enhancement is superb, and synergises well w/other nootropics (Hydergine, Centrophenoxine, etc) although at higher doses, some amphetamine-like stimulation (its banned in Japan 'cause its somewhat of an amphetamine derivative) may be noted. remember, Selegeline is 4 x potentiated when ingested WITH food, while l-phenyl works best on an empty stomach.

Thanks for the report on selegiline nanobrain. I've a few questions...

What was the longest duration that you regularly took selegitine ?

How long did you take it for before positive effects were noticed?

Did these improvements in cognitive function etc., continue for the duration of taking 5mg/d, or did positives drop off after awhile, or did you eventually develop tolerance and require increased doses to get the same response as at the beginning?

Apart from the noticed telepathic increase. were there discomforting feelings or symptoms, physical load or amphetamine type stimulation?

How much phenylalanine did you take? Was it racemic i.e. DL or just L

Did you sleep well - compared to normally?

Did your eating patterns change?

Any decrease in spontaneous emotional response ? e.g. did you notice any "flatness" similar to that described with some SSRI's

And the question I'm sure everyone who has a heard of selegiline would like to ask; Did it increase your libido, sexual performance etc?

phase_dancer, i’ll try to answer, if you feel like this should be a separate L-Deprenyl/Selegeline/Davur thread, please feel free to move.

yes Deprenyl, the anti-ageing aphrodisiac, makes mice live twice (as long), tremendous neuroprotective and some say neuro-regenerative effects, antioxidant galore, used successfully to treat canine cognitive dysfunction syndrome, now if i can just remember where i put that pack ;-)

What was the longest duration that you regularly took Selegeline?

standard course – 8 weeks, longest course so far – 12 weeks, with breaks of about 3 months duration.

How long did you take it for before positive effects were noticed?

unlike most other nootropics which may take up to 4 weeks to be noticed (ie non-attack doses of piracetam), the effects manifest on the first day as rather significant mood elevation (especially in combination w/ L-Phenylalanine) and the cognitive fx develop fully by the second week. these are improved concentration, storage, short-to-long conversion and increased facility with numerical / linguistic recall and enhanced appreciation of music.

Did these improvements in cognitive function etc., continue for the duration of taking 5mg/d, or did positives drop off after awhile, or did you eventually develop tolerance and require increased doses to get the same response as at the beginning?

no tolerance was noted, cumulative effects last for some weeks after stopping the course (it is an irreversible MAO-B inhibitor) while the acute mood-elevating effects from the L-phenyl combo, alas, disappear when you cease the L-phenylalanine supplementation.

Apart from the noticed telepathic increase. were there discomforting feelings or symptoms, physical load or amphetamine type stimulation?

the telepathic thing was somewhat shocking as it was unexpected, happened first day i tried the 10 mg dose spaced apart by 4 hours, nonesuch was noticed with 5 mg/d dose and i was almost overwhelmed, mind you, this was nothing like amphetaminergic hints of “telepathy”. with higher dose (10 mg and above) there is a bit of body load (nothing in comparison with, ahem, other, um, pills though) noted as slight peripheral shakiness about 6 hours post administration. those sensitive should be careful in combining Selegeline, as any cerebral activator w/MJ as Paranoia can rear its ugly head.

How much phenylalanine did you take? Was it racemic i.e. DL or just L

~1,000 mg L-phenyl, definitely NOT the DL, on empty stomach first thing w/coffee, followed by 5 mg selegeline after a brekkie bar.

Did you sleep well - compared to normally?

while i did not notice any effects on sleep, (usually take 3 mg Melatonin) the missus says i tend to thrash and flop around the bed more, especially if i take 5-HTP before sleep.

Did your eating patterns change?

eating is an inefficient way to procure energy. just kidding. the appetite lessens, until you think about eating, whence its back full force.

Any decrease in spontaneous emotional response ? e.g. did you notice any "flatness" similar to that described with some SSRI's

here’s the good thing…unlike the zombie-making SSRI’s, even the newer ones, there is no flattening of affect or narrowing of the emotional range. you do not become a blank, somewhat-satiated unipolar emotional robot, and there is no dire physical withdrawal (or any) from stopping suddenly.

And the question I'm sure everyone who has a heard of selegiline would like to ask; Did it increase your libido, sexual performance etc?

there are definite noted pro-sexual effects - a significant increase in spontaneous erotic thinking, prolonged fantasy and orgasm duration. its not Viagra nor will it grow your penis / breasts.

with all the good press, please remember, there’s no free lunch. i can see potential for psychological dependence (even though dependence on a drug that increases your lifespan may not be bad). there have been reports (remembering Murple’s words) of very negative experiences (toetag) when combining high dose Selegeline w/MDMA.

remember, selegeline is an irreversible and (relatively) selective MAO-B inhibitor and not so selective in high doses, meaning your enzyme levels will return to intact levels only about 2 weeks after stopping the course. dont be stupid thinking "it'll make me roll longer / stronger bring back the magic" you will damage self. and thats not what this is all about.

psychologically/emotionally unstable individuals should always take extra care when experimenting w/cerebral activators.

I've been rather surprised deprenyl hasn't been used more extenively, but you're the first person I've heard of who has done a course.

Did you ever use meth with selegiline? I would imagine that could be a very dangerous combo (MAO-B being required for the metabolic breakdown of dopamine and norepinephrine)

Thanks for a great report nanobrain

NanoBrain:what about L-deprenyl's abitity to reverse semi-permanent amphetamine and cocaine tollerance?

I've heard that clinically selegiline's effects are quite weak because much of the drug is destroyed in the stomach...there are trials going on with a seleglinine patch over here in the US and their results have been much more amazing.

This is because the triple bond of the propargyl group ( 3 parallel lines at the end) easily reacts in the presence of HCl via electrophilic substitution to produce an inactive chloro product, and stomach acid being very acidic, this reaction would tend to occur fairly rapidly. Taking it with food would effectively provide a dilution of stomach acid, and allow for more deprenyl to be absorbed.

Plugging would also be better. It may also be an advantage to have a small amount of an alkaliser prior to taking, but the food idea is probably the simplest and safest. The patch idea would greatly reduce this effect. I've always thought it's a bit of a pity you can't buy DMSO over the counter, as many rec drugs could be administered this way. But then again, they're now talking about DMSO being a potential carcinogen. What will they replace it with I wonder?

Incidentally, selegiline breaksdown after being on the self for 3-5 years. The breakdown product is.....wait for it....amphetamine
But before you rush to get a script, I should tell you the b/d product is all l-amphetamine i.e. the slighly active isomer found in nasal proucts

Still if Selegiline is as good as nanobrains report indicates, who needs meth? Although nanobrain mentions the possibility of becoming addicted to selegiline, the addictive potential is likely to be far less than with meth, as there is no displacing dopamine - only affecting its uptake and breakdown - sort of a maximising of efficiency. I wouldn't want to say this product is without possible risks, but MAO-B is something I'd intend to reduce as time goes on and retention/ recall become increasingly compromised.

Nanobrain: how were you able to obtain L-Phenylalanine? Prescription? Health food stores sell only DL since Phenylalanine is a List II precursor I assumed.

Also, have you tried l-tyrosine in combination with deprenyl?

Musashi makes pure L-phenylalanine, such as the 75g container I have in front of me


It is listed as a schedule II chemical, although all that is required is a photo ID when purchasing. I have heard far flung rumors that considerable amounts have been purchased this way, but I couldn't verify such claims.

[Edit: Link removed to comply with posting guidelines p_d]

...the telepathic thing was somewhat shocking as it was unexpected, happened first day i tried the 10 mg dose...

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Hey Nanobrain,

Im surprised that Im the first to ask this, but could you elaborate further on what sort of telepathic abilities you noticed?

I would think that would be pretty cool.

back w/some answers for the curious.

p_d, hm, funny that, many talking primates will research, gladly pay exorbitant sums for and ingest agents to “mess them up.” in comparison, very few bother w/something actually said to improve their cognition. but this could be a new thread, “Escaping Reality vs Enhancing Reality”… meth with Deprenyl – once, for experiment’s sake, potentiation was noted, although purity of former material was not known. DMSO, yyeh, but alongside the active compounds said solvent would yank through all sorts of other shit which, for example, happened to be present on your skin surface, wash your hands kids.

Tylerdurden, would not know about cocaine, presumably from the mech. of action, yes. does potentiate / reverse tolerance for the methylated amphetamines.

Negro-kitty, hence bioavailability via oral increases 4-fold when taken with food.

Runner: l-tyrosine w/Deprenyl resulted in a massive migraine-type headache, but this is a common side effect in those sensitive to tyrosine, apparently i’m one. L-form of phenylalanine is also sold at GNC, it is an amino acid after all.

finally, pinkanga, in re telepathics, all of a sudden, about an hour after the 2nd 5mg, i was bombarded by sensory and emotional impressions not my own. this was at work and was not an enhancement of ability to read body language cues, as this is what some mistake for telepathy, but rather direct contact with the thoughtforms / emotions of others in immediate proximity, physical range about 3 meters. one-way unfortunately, receive not send (although no problem sending to the cat, to amazement of others), subsequently learned to use this capacity, comes in very useful at times…

Deprenyl - is there anything it can't do? %)
MDMA and Deprnyl (Jumex) interactions? (follow the links)

Nanobrain, re telepathy: fucking amazing

Is it safe to drink alcohol whilst using Deprenyl, or is this a dangerous combination?

What an interesting thread.:D

pinkanga said:

Nanobrain, re telepathy: fucking amazing

Click to expand...

That parts sure caught my attention. Having experienced this (at times very noticeably) on several other drugs, I would be extremely interested in trying this. That you felt that you had good control over it is the bit that stands out the most. Anything else you could add about that effect on this substance would be fantastic.

^
have also experienced telepathic effects w/other pharmacologicals / botanicals as well, yet this was different - ususally what i experience is bidirectional, send/receive.

deprenyl was different in that it was receive only. confusing at first yes, but then its just another "filter" which seemed to have been removed in my case. control i do not claim, but it works great in business meeting when needed.

I just re-discovered this awesome thread!

Hi Nanobrain. I was just curious as to why you dont continue using deprenyl all the time....is it because the effects are too strong? I notice that some literature recommends 1-3gms / day, which is considerably less than the 5-10 you said were taking.

Thanks. Great thread.

What does phenylalanine do?

lots


It's an amino acid and used to make several important body chemicals. You'll find some stuff on it here. Try the archives if nothing comes up on a regular search. Gotta go....