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Kratoms effects on PAWS

Brote125

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May 2, 2017
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I have a question for you all. I did some googling and searched here and couldn't find an answer. Maybe I just wasn't wording my search correctly so I apologize if this has already been answered.

I have been off oxy for about a month. I have been using kratom. It helped a lot. I am still in the PAWS phase mainly dealing with tiredness. At this point I just want my energy to start coming back but I understand it takes time. My question is how is my kratom use effecting my recovery at this point? Mainly will it prevent or handicap my brains ability to create natural endorphins? I know it can stimulate opiod receptors.

I don't think I use a whole lot. Maybe a tablespoon every waking 3-4 hours. Also since I stated using kratom a month ago I have taken a 3 day break twice.
 
Not sure of the science, but it won't set you back in the same way traditional opiates do. I think it would slow down you're healing time though. It works on serotonin as well and can create its on sort of PAWs that is different from opiate induced paws. Kratom is harder on the body for sure though. I've used it daily for 1 year at one point, so it's not terrible, but I still feel dirty and rough after the third or fourth day using it.
 
Given how you're using it OP, I wouldn't worry to much about your kratom use. It's good to takes breaks every once in a while and occasionally challenge yourself to enjoy a lower dose.

What are your sleep habits, diet, exercise, mood and relationships like? What I'm trying to say is that you might be better off first putting your energy into working on developing a healthier lifestyle and then into eliminating kratom completely. Even just stuff like sleep, diet and exercise are pretty good indicators of the kind of thing your dealing with.
 
I agree with TPD that the amount you're using isn't likely to present a huge problem. But I'd also recommend caution--it's of course very easy to let kratom use climb, and kicking a kratom habit on top of staying away from your DOC is no fun.
 
Kratom WD are typically less severe but more portracted than oxy WD. It could actually make your PAWS worse if you use it too often for too long. I would try to use it as sparingly as possible. For me, there was a really sharp tipping point between being able to easily take breaks and suddenly feeling full blown WD if I went a day without it

However, if you feel like you have to be taking something, Kratom is certainly healthier than oxy
 
So I stopped the kratom for 3 days and felt pretty damn crappy. It had been about 2 weeks I took any opiates but when I stopped I got real depressed, had incredibly low energy and even felt some rls come back. My thoughts are these were either still the opiate withdrawal without the kratom or I might have been experiencing some kratom withdrawal. I'm not too sure. It was pretty damn uncomfortable though. If what I experienced was the opiate withdrawals without the benefit of the kratom then I'm amazed at the job the kratom was doing at suppressing them the past two weeks. Either way it's better than still being on ops. I'll have to watch how much I take and after a month or so try and drop the Kratom. Maybe take a couple days off here and there.
 
Kratom definitely affects your body's natural endorphin production, just as other opiates do. I know a lot of blogs and websites praise Kratom as a natural remedy for opiate withdrawal, but don't let them trick you.

I would suggest staying away from Kratom. For me, kratom was just as addicting (and for that matter just as uncomfortable to come off of) as most opiates. The mental symptoms of the withdrawal were actually worse for me. There is something about Kratom that made it really hard to get off of. If you ever need support for coming off Kratom, there is a really good Subreddit called r/quittingkratom. It really helped me.

Good luck to you.
 
Very interesting topic to me. I quit oxy about 2-3 months ago, also quit heavy drinking shortly after. I've been managed the initial WD symptoms and then my cravings by dosing kratom 2-3 times a day, sometimes more.

All of a sudden, over the last few days, I've had the worst feelings of depression I've ever had. Kratom didn't help that much. It was almost like it had stopped working. I was miserable, finding no enjoyment in anything. Could PAWS have suddenly just come on like that??
 
Very interesting topic to me. I quit oxy about 2-3 months ago, also quit heavy drinking shortly after. I've been managed the initial WD symptoms and then my cravings by dosing kratom 2-3 times a day, sometimes more.

All of a sudden, over the last few days, I've had the worst feelings of depression I've ever had. Kratom didn't help that much. It was almost like it had stopped working. I was miserable, finding no enjoyment in anything. Could PAWS have suddenly just come on like that??

Am I understanding you right?...you quit oxy 2-3 months ago and you were doing OK using kratom since then, but suddenly the kratom seems to have stopped working?

If that's the case, unless something changed with your kratom, it's hard for me to imagine that your symptoms are PAWS, at least in the usual sense. The reason I say that is it sounds like kratom was allowing you to avoid PAWS from the oxy quit. I can't see how the oxy-related PAWS would suddenly break through if the kratom was working.

Have you had problems with depression before?

But again, maybe I'm misunderstanding.
 
My
1)question is how is my kratom use effecting my recovery at this point?

2)Mainly will it prevent or handicap my brains ability to create natural endorphins?

3)I don't think I use a whole lot. Maybe a tablespoon every waking 3-4 hours. Also since I stated using kratom a month ago I have taken a 3 day break twice.

1)It very well could be, it's been a crutch for me these past 6 months, it's never been as damaging, as I can take a day-three day break and manage the withdrawals unlike the ones with traditional opiates, but there is a factor that I can't do without it for too long, and thats the addiction, I like me better on Kratom, but I am not sure that it's so bad as it helps me mentally as well, in regards to not having to take benzos or alcohol to alleviate anxiety/stress. (was never addicted to either, but would drink and take benzos when i'd be in early stages of withdrawal from dope, which in my opinion is a much more dangerous mix than Kratom alone)

2)I don't think there is enough research on this yet, but a pretty interesting question im going to want to look into myself.

3)Im guessing a tbs is around 2-4 grams at most which is considered a moderate dose, the lower side if its just a tbs rather than a heaping one. (this all depends on how ground it is, but from my experience most vendors will have it pretty similar)


I have been taking kratom for a while now after a 6-7 year opiate addiction, I never thought i'd make it as long without relapse if it wasn't for Kratom, thought still vulnerable at this stage it's been helping me. I've never robbed anybody looking for my next kratom fix, given the stuffs dirt cheap online.

You could very well be experiencing what a lot of users report as Same Strain Syndrome, switch it up, even your vendor.
 
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Am I understanding you right?...you quit oxy 2-3 months ago and you were doing OK using kratom since then, but suddenly the kratom seems to have stopped working?

If that's the case, unless something changed with your kratom, it's hard for me to imagine that your symptoms are PAWS, at least in the usual sense. The reason I say that is it sounds like kratom was allowing you to avoid PAWS from the oxy quit. I can't see how the oxy-related PAWS would suddenly break through if the kratom was working.

Have you had problems with depression before?

But again, maybe I'm misunderstanding.

No, you're not misunderstanding. I'm now going through horrible bouts of depression. I'm pretty unhappy. The depression comes in waves. I'm wondering if my oxy usage, while getting me a little high, was also working for me as an anti-depressant. I'm teetering... on the edge of thinking I should start chipping with the pills again :(
 
And I've never had depression before. This is a brand new experience for me. It's horrible.
 
No, you're not misunderstanding. I'm now going through horrible bouts of depression. I'm pretty unhappy. The depression comes in waves. I'm wondering if my oxy usage, while getting me a little high, was also working for me as an anti-depressant. I'm teetering... on the edge of thinking I should start chipping with the pills again :(

I never had much luck controlling depression with occasional use of opioids. Daily maintenance doses sure, it has helped a LOT, but sporadic use not so much. When I'm not using daily, even if I'm not dependent, it still takes me up to four days for my mood to stabilize after getting high from opioids.
 
I had horrible depression after quitting meth. I went from superman to noman. Work and then skydiving gave me my life back. Stay busy and do things that make you feel better about your self. Take up something that will give you that high on life feeling. Skydiving, scuba, hang gliding, climbing, gliders, dirt bikes to name a few. One of the best highs out there is called being high on life.

Go make a skydive and come back here and tell me your depressed...

R13
 
Not sure of the science, but it won't set you back in the same way traditional opiates do. I think it would slow down you're healing time though. It works on serotonin as well and can create its on sort of PAWs that is different from opiate induced paws. Kratom is harder on the body for sure though. I've used it daily for 1 year at one point, so it's not terrible, but I still feel dirty and rough after the third or fourth day using it.

Havocsfool is totally right, generally kratom shouldn't be used beyond 4 days a week, and keep in mind there are 3 main types which have very different effects (red,green & white vain kratom) . one of them is most similar to an opiate and helps immensely with RLS in my opinion, i used it for 3 weeks 4 days a week in moderately small doses along with a small dose of 0.5-1mg xanax daily for sleep and im on day 25 after going cold turkey from a 140mg Oxy,2-6mg xanax & .3-.8g of dope daily. i ofcourse had to taper down for 2 weeks before going cold turkey but the kratom helped sooo much, just make suer you buy it from the most reputable source available to you.
 
Okay, I have just went cold turkey from about 60mg of oxy a day for the last 2 years. I have picked up some green vein Kratom and it Jas been great. I have gone cold turkey before with nothing to aid me and it was horrible. I am taking about 6 to 8 grams of kratom this week and will taper over the next few. The great thing is I just had my 10mg Ambien refilled and will be hoping for a good night's sleep. I will update w/o the the results of 10mg Ambien and Kratom.
 
Okay I have taken 2grams of kratom, and I have also upped my Ambien dosage to 20mg. I am now starting to feel the effects of upping the Ambien.,rkeiruekbejd esaan
 
Couldn’t agree Morse about the kratom helpsing to get you off opiates

I has been off a dope/oxy/alprazolam addiction which lasted over 5+ years due to a wicked motorcycle crash. SWIM started taking kratom on day 5 after going cold turkey ( 4-6g of Bali red vain kratom) daily and hasn’t had a single moment of weakness or desire to get faded on dope or pills since oct/28 (its Nov/22) ... SWIM HAS tried methadone, suboxone.. tried tapering off both of those replacement meds ASWELL as even tapering down his abused drug of choices dose in prep for methadone or suboxone and relapsed many time on both of those. but now SWIM has been clean for 3wks&4days and he feels great again. He got a new job, cheap car for 600$ lol and started making all new friends. Kratom is the reason SWIM not still doin dope and hating the world. He owes that stuff his life, SWIM finds it hard now not to tell everyone He meets about it, the stuff is a miracle drug when taken appropriately.
 
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I has been off a dope/oxy/alprazolam addiction which lasted over 5+ years due to a wicked motorcycle crash. SWIM started taking kratom on day 5 after going cold turkey ( 4-6g of Bali red vain kratom) daily and hasn’t had a single moment of weakness or desire to get faded on dope or pills since oct/28 (its Nov/22) ... SWIM HAS tried methadone, suboxone.. tried tapering off both of those replacement meds ASWELL as even tapering down his abused drug of choices dose in prep for methadone or suboxone and relapsed many time on both of those. but now SWIM has been clean for 3wks&4days and he feels great again. He got a new job, cheap car for 600$ lol and started making all new friends. Kratom is the reason SWIM not still doin dope and hating the world. He owes that stuff his life, SWIM finds it hard now not to tell everyone He meets about it, the stuff is a miracle drug when taken appropriately.

Kratom can be tricky, however. I used it occasionally for a while doing a Suboxone taper and had no problems whatsoever. This was about a year ago. Then, when the Sub taper was almost over, but I'd been in withdrawals from the Sub for what seemed like forever. When I got off the methadone clinic many years ago, I had the same experience with withdrawal dragging on and on as well. So my thought this time was to get out from under the long-lasting withdrawals from getting off Sub and switch to a much shorter-acting drug, kratom, then taper off it, which theoretically should be easier as it is a very short-acting drug, meaning the withdrawals, even if they were severe, would still only last 3-5 days. Good plan, yeah?

This time--same vendor, same quality of kratom--I actually went off my Sub because I had a three-month script and went through it far too fast, so all I was taking was the K. I immediately started building tolerance very fast, and what got me well one day tripled in a couple of weeks. And the way it made me feel changed. It stopped most of the withdrawals, but not all, and the ones that stuck around were terrible. Yawning, restlessness, fatigue but can't sit still, no sleeping, and just this really nasty feeling. Somebody just called it feeling "dirty" and that's a good description; like feeling inside that I'm taking something that's actually toxic to me (and of course, taking it anyway.) The restless legs were unbelievable and the muscle spasms in my legs and hands are terrible. Plus I had GI symptoms real bad yesterday, although they're better now. I haven't slept more than an hour in any night for about a week, and the sleep deprivation is making me feel like a lunatic. Worst is the restlessness and wanting to move, but not wanting to do anything. Moving, especially my legs, hurts like hell, and while the restlessness in my body is driving me to do something, the fact that moving any part of my body hurts like hell makes me want to remain perfectly still. At least depression isn't too much bad, as I take anti-depressants daily and have for years. I'm seeing my doctor tonight--he's hoping to retire and has been continuing to treat me, but I found many of the Sub patients I know are having the same problems as they taper off the stuff. I actually wanted to get off it, but this isn't working at all, so I'm coming back and hoping to get back on Sub. At least there is a new policy where clinics and doctors don't kick you off in a certain time frame. I'm just hoping that he gives me a new script of Sub and keeps me as a patient. Or refers me to the clinic---...
 
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