Detox Quitting H CT

Hi folks,

So obviously this is my first post, and I'm going to put it all out there. I've been using this site for years to help with HR techniques, ROAs, etc., but I finally decided to join today for a different reason. To start out, I'll give you all some history. I started smoking weed when I was 13 years old, and was smoking daily from age 16 to 25. Over the last decade, I've done a plethora of different drugs and could probably be certified as a cosmonaut. I have a very addictive personality and like to credit that to my father, who also used drugs throughout his youth and has been a functioning alcoholic for over 35 years. He also smokes weed daily and we smoke together whenever I see him (lives in VA). This is not meant to come off as bragging by any means, just a documentation of where I am and how I got here. I went to VA Tech after graduating high school and joined a frat immediately. It was a traditional chapter, we were hazed plenty, but after getting in it facilitated some of the best times of my life...and some of the worst, though I didn't know it at the time. Around sophomore year I started dabbling in cocaine. It was at every party and I rarely had to pay for it. I loved it, and by my fourth year I was always trying to procure some blow anytime we had a social event. I was never addicted to it, and never did it more than 2-3 nights a week. I was also a huge jam band fan and did a lot of psychedelics over those 4-5 years, at lots of festivals. Shrooms, acid, molly, research chems, nitrous, you name it. I'm not going to lie, those were some great times. But I never felt addicted to any of these things, but that feeling changed when I broke my leg my junior year, longboarding down the many hills in gorgeous Blacksburg, VA. That's when I met my first love, hydrocodone. I was prescribed around 300 5mg norcos at one time, and after a night of extreme pain when I took 6, I realized that the warmth and euphoria of opiates were my shit. Luckily, I had too much going on in my life and no connections so when I ran out of pills, that was it. Opiates became a forgotten thing of the past for about 3 years.

When I graduated and got my first job, a very lucrative but highly stressful position staffing the Dept of Defense in Washington DC, I burned out quickly. I hated the area and I hated my job, when one day a coworker of mine asked me if I wanted any blues (roxy 30s). Not knowing what they were but always open to experimentation, I said yes and bought one. This was the biggest mistake of my life, and so rekindled my love affair with opiates. It was as if I was meeting a lost lover, the one that got away...if you will. I swallowed that first pill and felt the warmth come on, and that was that.

Fast forward two years. I hadn't allowed my opiate affinity become a habit, mainly because I couldn't afford it living in an insanely high cost of living area like DC. I hated it up there, no waves, no mountains, no snowboarding, no "bro shit" that I liked to do. Out of the blue, I received a job offer for more money to move to Charleston, SC. I jumped on it. Within months, I was making close to 6 figures and paying half the rent to live right next to the beach. That should have been enough to satisfy my life...NOPE. Opiates are everywhere down here. I found a Norco hook up, which then led me to Roxys, and over about a year, that became my DOC. It got to the point where I was doing 90mg per day minimum. I hated my job, but the money was excellent, though I was unhappy at work unless I was high. It started as a few days per week, then everyday but not until 3pm (I worked 8am-6:30pm, no lunch break), then every day by 9am. Eventually I couldn't afford the habit, and that's when I made the second biggest mistake of my life. I turned to heroin.

I was making $100k+ annually, and spending all of it on H other than the mortgage and bill payments. The money fueled the drugs and the drugs fueled the money. It was a vicious cycle. I started out snorting and smoking it, but after about 6 months of that, I began having horrible lung problems. I'd be short of breath doing regular activities, and walking up the stairs would bring me to my knees at times. I fooled myself into thinking it was asthma or something similar that was just showing itself, and a few doctors agreed with my self diagnosis. But deep down, thanks to Blue Light, I knew it was all related to the drug use. You see, heroin and other opiates greatly suppress your cough reflex. I was doing so much so often, that fluid was building up in my lungs, and my body was too doped up to expel the stuff. The doctors put me on a steroid regiment which was helpful, though I knew the real way to fix it was to quit dope, but I wasn't ready yet. I just knew I needed to find an ROA that didn't send powder or smoke directly into my lungs. I tried plugging, to no success at all. The needle was next, and in I plunged (no pun intended). At first it cheapened the habit and the amount I was using, but that lasted maybe a week or two. Soon I was using a gram per day, sometimes up to 2 gs on a bad day. Eventually someone noticed at work, and since three weeks ago, I've been on paid suspension until they figure out how to fire me. I'm (was) the top producer out of over 200 other staffers, so I make the company a lot of money, otherwise I've had been fired immediately.

This was my rock bottom.

I was asked to leave work, went home, finished the stash and told myself I was done with all opiates. Given the amount of my daily habit, I knew I was in for a rough few days. After 18 hours, the WDs kicked in, and for 24-72 hours I couldn't even keep water down. Many of you are all too familiar with the other symptoms. But I didn't crack. CT after a g+ per day habit is no joke. After a week sober, I slipped. I bought a half a g from an old connect and did it over 3 days. I could kick myself as I was already past the hard physical part, and I don't know why I made the call and followed through with the purchase. I was terrified that the WDs would start again, but I'm at 41 hours now since my last dose and haven't felt any yet. I thank God for that. The shitty part is the thought of using manifests itself in my head again today, and I'm fighting to beat it back. "You can use if you want, you won't have WDs. Just use in moderation." I know that's bullshit and that I'll just be where I was a few weeks ago, using a g a day before I know it. This is my true first attempt at getting clean. I don't want subs or methadone, I want to beat this straight up CT.
I'm reaching out to this community for help. Kind words, advice, shared similar situations, anything will help. What did you do to beat your habit? How did you beat the cravings? Most importantly, how long does it take for the depression and lethargy to go away? I know there are tons of similar stories on here but I wanted to post my own. I feel like a few personal responses will hit home more than reading the posts of others.

Iamoxygen said:

Most importantly, how long does it take for the depression and lethargy to go away?

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sorry man i couldnt be bothered to read that wall of text - maybe try adding a tl;dr?
but anywho the fatigue and malaise are known as PAWS and can take a month or two to fully dissipate.

congrats on the CT tho thats rough

Im quitting CT right now. Shit sucks.

As far as the question "when will I feel better?"...thats difficult to say. The problem is that substance abuse often exists alongside other issues like depression, which can and do exist independently from the substance abuse.

Sorry fellas, it was therapeutic to put the whole story out there...the last paragraph is really all people need to read. Burnt Offerings, yeah...it sucked shit. Given the amount I was doing, the WD was too much for me to even get out of bed to score, kind of a blessing I guess. The real battle is starting now, me vs. my brain. The wds are gone so now I'm just fighting that voice in your head that says I can use in moderation. He's a real bullshitter.

Can you look into the vivitrol shot? It was a godsend for my sister. She would get clean for a few days at a time, then use for a few days at a time, on and off for months.
She said that she just couldn't shake the cravings.
You need 14-21 days I think to get the shot but it has no withdrawals or side effects like suboxone or methadone and lasts for a month at a time.
It's an opiate blocker. My sister said that just knowing she couldnt get high if she tried (after trying once) gave her the ability to stop driving herself crazy with cravings.
She leveled out emotionally very quickly after that

It's really going to vary heavily from person to person, but I think you can realistically expect 1-2 months of anhedonia, depression etc. after ceasing an Opioid habit like yours. I know that probably sounds terrible, but you will notice improvement along the way that will provide you with the motivation to carry on. There are non-narcotic medications that work wonders for both acute and post-acute withdrawal. I mention them all the time, but Gabapentinoids (Gabapentin, Pregabalin, Phenibut etc.) are just a great panacea for withdrawal. They gave me energy on days when I was too depressed or lethargic to work.

If you're having issues with sleeping, I've found Clonidine to be the safest, most-effective, least-abuse prone sedative. Also, pesky symptoms like tachycardia, high blood pressure and just general anxiety can be mitigated slightly by Clonidine. The worst thing you can do for yourself at this point is to relapse on short-acting Opioids. It will set back your progress both emotionally and physically. If you feel like your cravings are absolutely too much and you're going to break, use Buprenorphine or Methadone. You may actually discover that maintenance treatment with one of the aforementioned drugs might be the suitable next step, but it's best to try other options before going down that road, as maintenance is quite a commitment.

Congrats on realizing that what was working for you is really not working for you, that's a difficult pill to swallow to look at ourself and accept the fucking mess we made and to realize we have an addiction and to take action to do something about it is an awesome thing. This may sound sappy man but I'm going to tell you what worked for me when I first went through what you are going through years back, since your decision is to not want to get on a maintenance med like Suboxone or Methadone, and I absolutely agree with you, don't do it, try something else first but you need the support man, Google AA and NA meetings close to you and go to a meeting man I highly suggest it they changed my life in 2002 when I first got off Heroin. I don't go to meetings anymore but in the beginning they absolutely were a godsend and I couldn't have done it without them and I wouldn't be the person I am today without having had aspects of that program in my my life, just take what you want from it and leave the rest.

^ Good advice on trying a support group. Do you live in this new state alone or do you have family there? OP, it sounds like you have been abusing substances for quite some time. I was the same way with opiates, only when I stopped I started drinking heavily. A lot of us addicts jump from one substance to another so you want to watch out for that. One question I have for you- Are you willing to go into a rehab facility? Doing this may help you keep your job and you can learn coping strategies. I'm going to move this to Sober Living. Wish you the best!

GG,

Thank you for the reply, it sounds like we are all very much the same whether we like it or not. I'm a researcher at heart, but not a planner by any means. I've read tons of info on here on what to expect, how tough kindling can be, etc. To give you a background, I started abusing OC two years ago. Once I was up to 100mg per day (only took about 6 months max to go from a 20mg daily Norco habit to 100-150mg OC daily), the prices got to be too much for me to cover. That's when I turned to H. Started smoking and insufflating, but after about 6 more months it started destroying my lungs. To the point where I could barely get up the stairs without doubling over. In my mind, I needed a new ROA, and that's when the IV started around Oct 2016. In 3 months I was at a g per day minimum, sometimes up to 2. It's a myrical I was functional and didn't OD. That amount lasted until two weeks ago. I quit CT, endured 5 days of hell where I couldn't even make it downstairs, didn't eat but a few cheerios each day, but I made it through. The weird part is I didn't cop until after it was all over. Technically this is my first real attempt to quit and I plan on it being my last. The boredom and lack of energy are what's killing me now. I can handle the depression, I was diagnosed over 5 years ago so it's kind of part of life now. I'm finally sleeping well with the help of trazadone, but I was shocked I didn't WD after only taking a week off and doing a half over 3 days. Guess given my normal habitual amount, that seemed like nothing to my body. So here I am, technically on day 3 but truly cut down 2 weeks ago come Sunday.

Here's the weird part, and I don't know if it's in my head or what. I haven't had that moment where I say "ok, this is my last shot forever." My user friends say they've had the thought a million times. I almost want to feel that way just for some closure with this awful habit.

Anyways, thanks again for responding. I'm not really a religious guy but godspeed to you my friend. I'm here for support as well if you need me. I plan on being 100% honest moving forward.

-Oxygen

To add to that, TCalderone couldn't be more accurate, except I'm the opposite. I was an alcoholic, just like my father, from age 18-26. The reason I stopped? Good ole pancreatitis. Yet given the stress brought on by my job, I needed something to take the edge off. Bud didn't do it. So I was given about 90 hydros from the doc for the pancreas pain. So began the rekindled love affair...in good news, gong back to drinking isn't really an option or my pancreas will crap out again.

OP, big congrats on quitting. That's a huge fucking deal.

But you're right, the period of time after quitting is a real mindfuck. In terms of your original question--how long will PAWS symptoms last--that really varies from person to person. For many of us, it's the first few months that bring the worst depression, anhedonia, lethargy, etc. But I gotta admit--in my own case, the depression is still just awful (though as Burnt_Offerings wisely pointed out, many of us--including me--have psych issues that drugs/quitting exacerbate. So I think I'm an outlier on this one.

I also want to add support to the risk of diverting your attention from H to some other drug(s). For the most part, I think that if you can get narcotics out of your life, you'll be better off. But the degree to which you'll be better off will depend on the extent to which you can steer clear of substances that you know are likely to give you problems.

Last, I also second the value of a support network. It can be a formal network like NA. But that's not for everyone. For many folks, an informal network of kind friends and family can be a great help when you're feeling rough.

Good luck, man. I hope you'll update us as things develop.

Thanks Sim, I plan to update this daily. As heavy as my habit was in terms of amount used (shit was fire too), it was relatively short lived compared to others on this site. I was shooting on the hour every hour essentially. What a mess. I need to get to a meeting. There are a lot of them in Charleston, but it's hard to tell what meetings are for beginners. Also, many of them take place in churches. Although I was raised as a catholic, I remember going to Sunday school at age 12 and I just wanted to get laid. Also, ever since quitting, I've been a resident at Boner City constantly, guess that's a good thing haha.

Iamoxygen said:

Thanks Sim, I plan to update this daily. As heavy as my habit was in terms of amount used (shit was fire too), it was relatively short lived compared to others on this site. I was shooting on the hour every hour essentially. What a mess. I need to get to a meeting. There are a lot of them in Charleston, but it's hard to tell what meetings are for beginners. Also, many of them take place in churches. Although I was raised as a catholic, I remember going to Sunday school at age 12 and I just wanted to get laid. Also, ever since quitting, I've been a resident at Boner City constantly, guess that's a good thing haha.

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Hey, man...Boner City is way better than hanging out with Mr Softie!

It's good that you've got a good crop of meetings to sample. I still have some big issues with NA. But at least for now, on the whole, I find it to be a net gain for my own recovery. But getting to that point involved going to a lot of shitty meetings, which is of course extremely frustrating, especially when we're feeling crappy ourselves.

When you're checking out meetings, I recommend listening closely to what you're feeling. If it seems too religious for your taste...feel free to bail. If a group seems dominated by a few 'large' personalities, that may also be an indication that newcomers may not thrive there (though that's obviously very personal). There's no shame in auditioning various groups.

That said, meetings specifically geared towards newcomers are something I've never seen. At NA people always welcomed me when I had zero clean time. The issue for me was always whether or not I wanted to stay.

Well I've made it another 5 days, so that's really just one quick lapse in over two weeks. I'm not fooling myself, I'm not two weeks sober and I realize that, but I'm looking at it as a win either way. Thank you all for your suggestions and comments. The Vivitrol shot sounds like a genius drug for kicking opiates. Burnt, how are you hanging in there?

^^
A couple months ago there was a thread on SL about the benefits vs. liabilities of counting clean time. I can see the value of counting, but especially in early recovery I really think it's important to focus on your successes...it's so easy but dispiriting to keep a tally of our mistakes. All I'm saying is I think you're doing great. Reducing your drug use is a huge accomplishment. Fully stopping--if that remains your goal--will come with time. This thing is all about progress, not perfection. Keep up the good work, man.

Thanks Sim, something tells me that you know your shit on this stuff, not that I should find that surprising...hell it's why I came here. I hate counting the days really, but it's tough not to do it at this point in the process. They crawl by too slowly...

Your words are very encouraging and helpful to read. I'm not sure if doing this straight up is the right way to do it, but not relapsing would be perfection to me. I'm confident that I can do it but...I know many who have said the same thing.

I hope I didn't give you any impression that I didn't think you can do this...you ARE doing it!

Sorry if I gave the idea that quitting isn't possible. It definitely is, and again, you're doing it very well indeed.


Sim

I read the whole thread. That's very impressive progress you've made especially given the amount you came off of in such quick succession. I'd agree in that it's very important right now to not let the boredom of the new lifestyle to allow your mind to fool you into just one here or there. That's currently where I'm at (about 60 hours removed from my rapid taper). It's tough stuff. I've been up and down for years now since my last good stint off everything in 2014.

Good luck and I'm sub'ed now and hoping to continue to see positive updates!

-SK

Sim, don't worry at all, I didn't take any negative connotations from your replies and advice. I've read through tons of your prior posts and I hope you are doing as well as possible now. It sounds like we all need each other in times like these.

SK, thanks for checking in, are you feeling better today. I'm 7 days clean as of tomorrow, I could kick myself though because if I hadn't had that quick lapse, I'd be close to 3 weeks. Onward and upward though, no dwelling on the mistake.

I made myself go for a 3 mile walk/jog today, got some juices flowing and it's AMAZING to be able to able to breathe freely. That was probably the worst physical effects of the opiates, my lungs were full of fluid and green shit. The first week I was coughing it all up every single day. It's much better now. I joined a gym today as well. One of the best things I've read on BL is to wait out cravings, even if it's just 15 minutes. THEY WILL AND DO PASS. Looking to get to a meeting soon. I have a good friend that is also trying to get off the junk but seems to be struggling more than I am unfortunately. He's quit for over a year before, but is back to square one now. Today will be two days clean for him. I'm not really sure what to do in this situation. I want to do it together because I know it will help him (and hopefully both of us). However, if he keeps cracking then I might have to cut ties from him for a while. What do y'all think?

First, that's great that you were out there for 3 miles. Man, I haven't gotten anything like that done in years. That's some seriously impressive shit.

I think your read on the relationship with your friend is pretty good. My only caution is that I would guard your own recovery really carefully. It is often (but by no means always) the case that trying to clean up while remaining in close contact with people you used to use with can pull you off your square. But only you can assess how this particular relationship will figure into things. In ALL aspects of your recovery, though, I do recommend bringing 100% of your energy and focus. This shit is so hard that we need to bring everything we've got to the task...for me a huge part of this involves exactly the idea I mentioned earlier of protecting your recovery, whatever that means to you.

FWIW, I totally get you about the gnarly side effects of dope. Since I live where we have #4 instead of tar, my original ROA was railing my drugs. Over time this totally fucked up my sinuses to the point where I was having serious trouble breathing. That was actually one of the reasons I switched over to injecting...I couldn't stuff any more powder up my nose. That was some fucked up thinking.