Opioids MS Contin vs Opana ER for pain control? Low bioavailability ughhh...

Anyone out there with experience on MS Contin and Opana ER?

If taken normally (i.e orally) what would generally (i.e for most people) work better for pain control between 30mg MS Contin 3 times per day and 20mg Opana ER 2 times per day?

I'm a bit confused because of how low the oral bioavailability of Opana is (oral is barely 10% ). So taking a 20mg Opana ER would ultimately result in ~2mg being the proportion of a it that enters the circulation into the body and is thus able to have an active effect. At such a low bioavailability, wouldn't the MS Contin be better or is Opana/Oxymorphone really THAT strong that it would still be a better option?

The official conversion charts say a 90mg total MS Contin dose per day is equal to 15mg Opana ER twice per day but that doesn't seem to make any sense considering how radically awful the Opana bioavailability is.

I understand that Opana/Oxymorphone is insanely potent at 100% BA (i.e if used intravenously) but if that route isn't even an option (as far as I know Opana ER can't even be prepared for proper IV use due to abuse proofing - correct me if I'm wrong though) it just seems that MS Contin would be the better option.

If you guys had the option to choose between 3 x 30mg MS Contin per day and 2 x 20mg Opana ER per day, what would you select? MS Contin has poor oral BA too but even so, it's higher than 10%.

Also, on a side note... is it actually possible to prepare an Opana ER for IV use with a micron filter? It's my understanding that there is some sort of molecular bond or something in regards to the oxymorphone and time-release mechanism so wouldn't it basically be pointless to use a micron filter? Does anyone know if it's true that there's still some sort of generic Opana ER around than can actually be safely/easily prepared for IV?

Anyways, the main point here is legitimate pain control and the IV stuff is just out of curiosity. If 20mg Opana ER twice per day wouldn't generally cut it compared with 30mg MS Contin three times per day then what dose of Opana ER would cut it?

Honestly...I would take the Opana ER if I were you. I find Oxymorphone to be a far better painkiller with MANY less negative side effects than morphine.

And you said so yourself...they BOTH have poor oral BA's. Plus, you can always do things to try to increase the oral BA....like eating a fatty meal every time you take an Opana. I'm sure there are other methods for producing a higher BA, you just have to look them up....I'm not an expert on that, especially when it comes to Opana. Just use the search engine on BL. And if you can make a liquid formulation with your Opana then I would HIGHLY recommend trying to use it rectally, which I believe noticeably increases the BA. But I would not try to IV Opana if you do manage to get it into liquid form. If this truly is for pain management, then IV'ing your meds is not worth it, nor will it truly benefit you...ESPECIALLY in the long run. You can get pretty good rushes taking rectal doses of different opioids....it's just SO many people seem weirded out by the idea, even though suppositories have been in use for thousands of years.

I would take the Opana ER(orally, rectally, or otherwise) until it doesn't work anymore, and then ask your doctor to switch you to the Morphine, or some other opioid. The incomplete cross tolerance will be of benefit to you.

jamesBrown said:

Honestly...I would take the Opana ER if I were you. I find Oxymorphone to be a far better painkiller with MANY less negative side effects than morphine.

And you said so yourself...they BOTH have poor oral BA's. Plus, you can always do things to try to increase the oral BA....like eating a fatty meal every time you take an Opana. I'm sure there are other methods for producing a higher BA, you just have to look them up....I'm not an expert on that, especially when it comes to Opana. Just use the search engine on BL. And if you can make a liquid formulation with your Opana then I would HIGHLY recommend trying to use it rectally, which I believe noticeably increases the BA. But I would not try to IV Opana if you do manage to get it into liquid form. If this truly is for pain management, then IV'ing your meds is not worth it, nor will it truly benefit you...ESPECIALLY in the long run. You can get pretty good rushes taking rectal doses of different opioids....it's just SO many people seem weirded out by the idea, even though suppositories have been in use for thousands of years.

I would take the Opana ER(orally, rectally, or otherwise) until it doesn't work anymore, and then ask your doctor to switch you to the Morphine, or some other opioid. The incomplete cross tolerance will be of benefit to you.

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I wouldn't really be weirded out or have a problem with rectal administration if it was legitimately worth it in terms of pain relief when necessary. However, I was under the impression that considering the abuse proof and time-release mechanism that Opana ER uses, it's extremely difficult if not impossible to prepare a liquid formulation from them. Do you happen to know how this might be done? As far as IV goes, I'd be too paranoid to inject all the binders/fillers/gel/time-release crap into my veins although if a liquid formulation was possible to make and then a micron filter could be used to result in a VERY pure Oxymorphone solution I MIGHT try it once just for the shits and giggles (even so, probably not though I'm more curious than anything). If you have any more information in these regards I'd appreciate it.

Do you happen to have a recommendation for a specific fatty meal to try in an attempt to increase BA? Any specific meals you've tried that you've had good results with?

Lastly, Morphine can make me feel somewhat lethargic at times whereas Oxycodone and Hydromorphone (Dilaudid) does not. Is Opana similar in this regard in your experience or from what you know of with most people?

IMHO you and your doc have to trial and error things. Hydrocodone seems to be idea for me in terms of longevity, pain relief, and what not. This is using as directed.

I've had Opana cooked into a very nice shot; almost a Dilaudid rush but not as intense (by far) but much longer lasting.

It took a lot of work getting it prepped though.

When I was in a regular pain management program after my car accident; 2x30mg MS-Contin (BID? that's twice a day right?) and 3 10/500 Lortab (1 TID PRN.. three a day as needed?) was my sweet spot. After trying roxi, OxyContin, Percocet and lotsa other stuff. Note the goal wasn't to be high, just out of pain enough to enjoy being alive and do things like play guitar or work on computers/software. I eventually got ejected from the program because they said I had methadone in my system, after doing a little pod tea.

r0bz1ll4 said:

IMHO you and your doc have to trial and error things. Hydrocodone seems to be idea for me in terms of longevity, pain relief, and what not. This is using as directed.

I've had Opana cooked into a very nice shot; almost a Dilaudid rush but not as intense (by far) but much longer lasting.

It took a lot of work getting it prepped though.

When I was in a regular pain management program after my car accident; 2x30mg MS-Contin (BID? that's twice a day right?) and 3 10/500 Lortab (1 TID PRN.. three a day as needed?) was my sweet spot. After trying roxi, OxyContin, Percocet and lotsa other stuff. Note the goal wasn't to be high, just out of pain enough to enjoy being alive and do things like play guitar or work on computers/software. I eventually got ejected from the program because they said I had methadone in my system, after doing a little pod tea.

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Out of curiosity, how did you prep the Opana?

Also, can pod tea really cause a positive for methadone in a drug test? I know it can test positive for all sorts of stuff (i.e codeine, morphine etc etc) but never heard of methadone showing up.

And just out of curiosity how intense is the rush from IV Opana compared to Dilaudid on a scale of ten? Like, if we say that a Dilaudid rush is a 10, what would you rate the Opana rush at intensity wise?

I have no IDEA why I tested positive for methadone. I told the doc quite honestly when she said "we need to discuss your urinalysis" and I'm like well I smoked a little pot, thinking it'd help my appetite and require less painkillers? Then she said... "no I mean the methadone and ALL KINDS OF stuff"

this blew my mind because I mighta done methadone twice in my life, and never in the last decade.

If the D rush is a 10; i'd say I gotta nice 6.5-7.5 from opana. My gf prepped it up I think mostly like you would MS-Contin... heat, congealing the waxy shit, and trying to filter around/under it. It took her a good long while, like MS-Contin anyway. It was alright in general but eh just get some roxies, or a few K4's followed by a lil brown after that sadly short rush wears off.

I know this can't be safe but everyone I know cold-shakes Dilaudid. Crush it, put it directly in the rig, and draw up enough water to just completely dissolve it. Me? No thanks, I'll continue to filter mine even if I lose 2% that way...

We do not allow discussion of drug testing here, but I will tell you that a bunch of things can cause a false+ for methadone, many or most of which aren't actually opiates, due to the quite different structure of methadone. Some of these things are OTC and probably in your medicine cabinet, i.e. Benadryl. But as I said we don't allow this type of discussion here, but Google will easily reveal quite a bit of information.

my apologies for that faux pas, it shan't happen again.

Also BTW, by "cold shake dilaudid" do you mean just dropping drugs into the syringe and shaking it? Yeah, bad idea, you need a filter, at least a cotton, preferably better (a wheel filter) but at least a cotton, but the cold is actually good, as it decreases the amount of other shit that gets into the solution. As to the abuse-prevention mechanisms of Opana, I can't really speak to them, I've never had the stuff but from everything I've heard and from what I can tell by reading about it and just looking at the damn molecule I'd probably trade a testicle for a significant supply of non-abuse-proof Opana. But, yes, in equianalgesic doses, I'd say oxymorphone for most people will be preferable to morphine, it lasts longer, too (even if IR), but morphine orally is about 3x as potent as Opana in terms of delivering the same effect, which makes sense when you look at the metabolic charts, MSO4 is about 30-40% metabolized orally (as, is, by the way, heroin, despite the persistant myth that you need to take it parenterally, you can take it orally, it's just a big waste of money, though) and OxyM as you already know is 10% p.o. BA

SKL said:

Also BTW, by "cold shake dilaudid" do you mean just dropping drugs into the syringe and shaking it? Yeah, bad idea, you need a filter, at least a cotton, preferably better (a wheel filter) but at least a cotton, but the cold is actually good, as it decreases the amount of other shit that gets into the solution. As to the abuse-prevention mechanisms of Opana, I can't really speak to them, I've never had the stuff but from everything I've heard and from what I can tell by reading about it and just looking at the damn molecule I'd probably trade a testicle for a significant supply of non-abuse-proof Opana. But, yes, in equianalgesic doses, I'd say oxymorphone for most people will be preferable to morphine, it lasts longer, too (even if IR), but morphine orally is about 3x as potent as Opana in terms of delivering the same effect, which makes sense when you look at the metabolic charts, MSO4 is about 30-40% metabolized orally (as, is, by the way, heroin, despite the persistant myth that you need to take it parenterally, you can take it orally, it's just a big waste of money, though) and OxyM as you already know is 10% p.o. BA

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yeah man I couldn't believe what I was seeing the first time... just crushing 2-3 pills into a 1/2ml syringe. And they thought I was the weird one for insisting on a q-tip or cigarette filter AT LEAST

r0bz1ll4 said:

yeah man I couldn't believe what I was seeing the first time... just crushing 2-3 pills into a 1/2ml syringe. And they thought I was the weird one for insisting on a q-tip or cigarette filter AT LEAST

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Holy shit... injecting EVERYTHING (i.e binders/fillers/whatever) is INSANE! Just think about the goop that's left over after filtering with just a cotton. All that goop was going into the veins and almost certainly causing damage including the lungs. People have actually died from this. There's various documented cases of people who literally had to have to lung transplants because of injecting pills without filtering for goodness sake. It wasn't dilaudid, but I remember reading about a 50+ year old woman who was injecting Ritalin for some reason and had to have a lung transplant haha, but I've also read cases of really bad things happening from injecting dilaudid and other opioids without filtering. Heck, even with just a cotton filter if you're shooting constantly all the time damage can occur anyways (albeit much slower). No one wants a collapsed vein, but especially not a messed up lung or heart. Micron Filters are amazing (and easy as shit to use).

SKL said:

Also BTW, by "cold shake dilaudid" do you mean just dropping drugs into the syringe and shaking it? Yeah, bad idea, you need a filter, at least a cotton, preferably better (a wheel filter) but at least a cotton, but the cold is actually good, as it decreases the amount of other shit that gets into the solution. As to the abuse-prevention mechanisms of Opana, I can't really speak to them, I've never had the stuff but from everything I've heard and from what I can tell by reading about it and just looking at the damn molecule I'd probably trade a testicle for a significant supply of non-abuse-proof Opana. But, yes, in equianalgesic doses, I'd say oxymorphone for most people will be preferable to morphine, it lasts longer, too (even if IR), but morphine orally is about 3x as potent as Opana in terms of delivering the same effect, which makes sense when you look at the metabolic charts, MSO4 is about 30-40% metabolized orally (as, is, by the way, heroin, despite the persistant myth that you need to take it parenterally, you can take it orally, it's just a big waste of money, though) and OxyM as you already know is 10% p.o. BA

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When you say that Morphine orally is about 3x as potent as Opana in terms of delivering the same effect what does that ultimately equate to in terms of 1 20mg Opana ER vs 1 30mg MS Contin as far as effectiveness? I'm not sure I fully understand. As far as oral administration goes, what is stronger (at least in general, I know everything can vary somewhat depending on the person)? I mean, I keep hearing everyone say how super potent and awesome Opana is, but a 20mg Opana ER results in 2mg in total being used by the body over an entire 12 hours!!! Would I be insane to switch from 3 x 30mg MS Contin per day to 2 x 20mg Opana ER per day!? GAHHHHHHHHH. The official Opana website says that I'd only need 15mg Opana ER twice per day to equate to 3 x 30mg MS Contin per day. wtf? That's like 1.5mg being absorbed and used by my body over an entire 12 hours. It almost seems like I'd probably even go into withdrawal at that level but that doesn't seem like it can be right... I don't think I'm fully understanding something here.

Problem is, I'll be stuck with it for a month if I switch even if it's not very effective due to doctor policy and I wouldn't want to be hindered by pain for a month (I have to work everyday). I once accidentally went without my meds for 3 days (left them behind like a moron) and I had Kratom and Immodium which essentially completely prevented withdrawals but I couldn't function normally whatsoever because the pain was so bad.

I'm not sure what I'm not getting here, but 2mg over the course of 12 hours doesn't seem like it would really do much of anything at all. Is Oxymorphone just so damn potent that 2mg is actually a lot?

Oxymorphone is around 10 times as potent as morphine with a bioavailability of around 10% and a half life of around 7-9 hours and a duration of action of around 3-4 hours for IR and around 12 hours for ER
Moprhine has a BA of around 20-40%, a half life of around 2-3 hours and a duration of action of around 3-7 hours and most likely more side effects, including histamine reactions

40 mg oxymorphone with a BA of 10 % -> around 4 mg get in your system and is around 10 times as potent as morphine -> equipotent to around 40 mg of moprhine a day
90 mg of morphine a day with a BA of 20-40% -> around 18-36 mg make it into your system

Imo opana would be the better choice

kleinerkiffer said:

Oxymorphone is around 10 times as potent as morphine with a bioavailability of around 10% and a half life of around 7-9 hours and a duration of action of around 3-4 hours for IR and around 12 hours for ER
Moprhine has a BA of around 20-40%, a half life of around 2-3 hours and a duration of action of around 3-7 hours and most likely more side effects, including histamine reactions

40 mg oxymorphone with a BA of 10 % -> around 4 mg get in your system and is around 10 times as potent as morphine -> equipotent to around 40 mg of moprhine a day
90 mg of morphine a day with a BA of 20-40% -> around 18-36 mg make it into your system

Imo opana would be the better choice

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Thanks for the info!

Do you happen to know of any methods that actually work (at least usually anyways) to increase oral BA of Opana? I've been pulling up A LOT of very conflicting information about fatty meals for example. Everything from it being fairly negligible and barely increasing BA by maybe a few percent to reports that it should increase BA by a good 20%-40%+.

As far as histamine reactions go, Morphine does give me some annoyance in that regard at times. Is Opana actually significantly better for most people as far as histamine reactions go? That'd be a good reason in and of itself to switch... I really hate having to take benadryl even if it's not that often.

Lastly, do you know what's different about the time-release mechanisms of MS Contin vs Opana ER? Google is giving me loads of nonsense links about it.

ILikeToEatPeople said:

Thanks for the info!

Do you happen to know of any methods that actually work (at least usually anyways) to increase oral BA of Opana? I've been pulling up A LOT of very conflicting information about fatty meals for example. Everything from it being fairly negligible and barely increasing BA by maybe a few percent to reports that it should increase BA by a good 20%-40%+.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2621383/

Oxymorphone is well absorbed from the gut but the liver eliminates most of the drug during the first-pass; thus the oral bioavailability of oxymorphone is 10%

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So the only thing you can do would be to inhibit first pass metabolism, but https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2704133/

Morphine, oxymorphone, and hydromorphone are each metabolized by phase 2 glucuronidation and therefore have little potential for metabolically based drug interactions.

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As far as histamine reactions go, Morphine does give me some annoyance in that regard at times. Is Opana actually significantly better for most people as far as histamine reactions go? That'd be a good reason in and of itself to switch... I really hate having to take benadryl even if it's not that often.

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https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2578752

Human leukocyte and skin mast cell preparations were incubated with morphine sulfate in concentrations ranging from 1.5 X 10(-5) M to 4.5 X 10(-3) M. Skin mast cells also were incubated with oxymorphone and fentanyl in the same concentrations. Human leukocytes did not release histamine in response to any concentration of morphine. In skin mast cells, histamine release by morphine first was detected at 1.5 X 10(-4) M. Histamine release further increased at 5.0 X 10(-4) M with no incremental increase at higher concentrations. Oxymorphone and fentanyl failed to release histamine at any concentration.

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So yes, oxymorphone should be better

Don't know anything about the time-release mechanism, sorry

ILikeToEatPeople said:

Thanks for the info!

Do you happen to know of any methods that actually work (at least usually anyways) to increase oral BA of Opana? I've been pulling up A LOT of very conflicting information about fatty meals for example. Everything from it being fairly negligible and barely increasing BA by maybe a few percent to reports that it should increase BA by a good 20%-40%+.

As far as histamine reactions go, Morphine does give me some annoyance in that regard at times. Is Opana actually significantly better for most people as far as histamine reactions go? That'd be a good reason in and of itself to switch... I really hate having to take benadryl even if it's not that often.

Lastly, do you know what's different about the time-release mechanisms of MS Contin vs Opana ER? Google is giving me loads of nonsense links about it.

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Everyone is different so you'll have to find out for yourself how well a fatty meal increases the BA and what kind of fatty meal works best. You may be lucky and find that eating a meal with Opana ER increases its oral BA by 20% or more for you. Or you might feel as if it makes no difference. You just have to go through some trial and error....No matter what method you are utilizing to increase BA.

I was electrocuted in a work place accident (13.5 Kva for 10.2 sec) lost a arm reduced use of what was left of other hand.
50% 3rd and 4th degree burns etc...etc...


Anyway I've taken all kinds of pain meds from patches, lolly-pops, OC then OP anyway the anti-abuse mechanisms of Opana ER is along the same lines as OP (Oxycontin - New formulation). In other words, No.
Opana IR (correctly called Opana) has no anti-abuse HOWEVER different makers have different formulations. As some will almost 'Cold shake clean' while other turn into a glob o' gue.
Also, cold shake is ok as you dont 'drain' the syringe. Demerol, Dilaudid and some others actually leave way too much in the cotton or filter medium for experienced users to use as they almost totally disappear when shook. However, enough about that.


As far as the best way to ingest Opana ER it is like my prescription bottle states, 'Take on a empty stomach'. If I take my 40 Mg that way then eat my bowl o cereal about 30 minus later I better be moving about or the Sandman catches me with his bag and I'm out. My second dose 12 hours later it really dont matter what I'm doing as I will hardly feel its effect as I have a full stomach from that days food. If I can put off taking it till bed time and let my stomach empty out some I can sleep good for 2 or 3 hours but then I'm awake.


Which is better? Depends.


Hope I've added something new to this thread.

I personally don't dig shortened duration due to consumption. I have turned down oxymorphone as well as hydromorphone and I personally just stick with oxy ir.

I'm pretty sure under global something there's generic opana ER that's the old formulation that with an ISO wash and filter could be IV and was the best pill to put up the nose. I prefer opana as in my opinion besides it lacking the histamine effects and having a long half life it is the best choice.. If you start it and use it as prescribed give it time to adjust.

Also eat something with fats and it's supposed to increase the bioavailability... Something light like yogurt.