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MDMA tolerance/serotonin depletion

SkiNLaB

SkiNLaB

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Joined
Feb 26, 2003
Messages
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i once read somewhere(prolly not reliable) that you cant build a tolerance to MDMA, only lose serotonin receptors, or serotonin...

right/wrong ?
 
MDMA "tolerance" is a condition that effects people, wherein a 'normal' dose of MDMA for them has less noticeable effect, caused in part by psychological factors (loss of novelty, accustomed to the effects), and neurological changes to the brain from exposure to MDMA.

But don't take my word for it, ask Dr Shulgin!

Ask Dr. Shulgin Online

ARCHIVE: April 10, 2002

MDMA (Ecstasy) Tolerance

Dear Dr. Shulgin:

Can you explain to me why MDMA has what appears to be such a prolonged occurrence of tolerance? I've heard a bunch of my raver friends tell me they just don't roll as hard as they used to and I find it hard to believe this can simply be written off as a decrease in the quality of pills. Many of my friends even tell me the first few times they rolled were the best but they just don't feel the effects as much anymore.

I would feel a lot more confident in your assurances that MDMA isn't neurotoxic if I perceived a tolerance to MDMA that was similar to psilocybin or LSD...but I just don't. Can you help me out here Sasha? I'm worried!

-- Moecat



Dear Dr. Shulgin:
After my first 150 MDMA pills, with any MDMA pill I took the positive effects were very low and negative were high. I was still trying to get that loveable feeling but I get absolutely nothing but a nasty hangover. I quit for a couple of months then tried it again and nothing but an awful hangover...will I ever get the loveable feeling back or is it gone forever?

-- Specialist

Dear Moecat and Specialist:

I have combined your letters in that both of you are experiencing the same property that MDMA invokes with repeated usage, and you are both asking the same question looking for some explanation.

The property you are experiencing is what I call the loss of the magic of that first experience. My first experience with this drug was indeed magical. I was suddenly one with myself, one with the world; I was a person who had no secrets from himself and one who could trust others to be as honest with him as he was with himself. Almost everyone has a vivid recollection of his first experience. That is what I call the "magic." But that is usually lost after a few experiences and, I do believe, is never recovered. The stimulant properties are still there, and the eye-twitch and tooth-grinding are still there, and some of the warmth and comfortable interactions, but the magic is gone.

This is not tolerance from the pharmacological point of view. Tolerance is lost with time. I do not believe that this "magic" loss is itself ever recovered. It appears that, after a certain number of drug uses, the magic slips away. The exact number probably varies with the person.

Which brings up your second points, those regarding the reports that MDMA may be neurotoxic. Despite the extensive research that has been spent upon it, there is still no objective evidence that MDMA damages human nerves. But I certainly can't argue but that there are brain changes that could be assignable. Take this "loss of magic" thing. Some brain change has occurred, and it does not appear to be reversible. Is this evidence of "damage?" I don't think so, but I don't know. Change? Yes. We can never walk the same path twice so the assignment of responsibility, of causality, is uncertain. Definitions that would distinguish between damage and change might help.

-- Dr. Shulgin
Click to expand...

BigTrancer :)
 
i c

i swear i didnt start this as a thread...? what the hell happened?
 
tolerance or damage

on the weekend i rolled with a first timer female. The pill was a white ministry of sound which is very clean but not the strongest of bikkies. She was trolleyed off a quarter and loved every minute.

While very slightly smashed off one i pondered the question "Why is it that despite how long i have a break i never get anywhere near that first time... what causes 'tolerance'..... is it possible that some sort of damage has occured to the neuron recepetors or something?"

I guess though i've never had a longer break than say 4 weeks 8) Is anyone who's had a big break able to shed light on how much their tolerance reduced?
 
For me it goes as follows:

1 week break (which I have only done once)= big tolerance and shitty peak with the magic euphoria only lasting 45mins of so. i felt very scattered the next day and my emotions felt "low key" for a whole week and I only got happy a handful of times for another week, not to mension getting shitty easily.

2 week break (done a number of times)= if the pill is good I get a reasonably good peak but it doesn't last very long and it doesn't take control of me that much. it ends up more of a good mood thing rather than dance like jelly with an ear to ear smile thing. the next few days i felt a little low key.

3-4 weeks (done a number of times)= feels alot better. the peak is quite good and I don't get to scattered. I whole next week I don't get overly happy but I feel quite satisfied with everything and stress free.

1-2 months (done twice)= the longer I waited the harder the peak was. 2 months made it almost feel like my first pill again. I had one of the white doves of late 2002 and couldnt move for 3 hours! but I wasn't complaining! haha

hope that helped.

its like any drug with the damage, the more often you do it, the more damage it does. try and have a centrum multivitamin/axtioxidant pill (if they haven't been recalled or black listed) and some vitamin c before you roll. it doesn't hurt to have a vitamic c while youre rolling or the next day either. the more the better seeing as its an anti-oxidant and it should reduce the oxidisation damage to your brain while rolling and recoving from rolling.

with seratonin, ive heard that it takes 3 weeks for your seratonin levels to rebuild back to normal. i find that the more often i take pills the longer it takes my seratonin to build back up again as well. try eating bananas every day. not only is it good for you but they naturally help you to rebuild your seratonin levels. if you really want, order some 5-htp over the internet and search this forum on how to take it properly after rolling.

hope i helped.
 
Last edited:
I split your post from the thread it was in, because it was off topic for that discussion. So, it got it's own topic.

BigTrancer :)
 
tolerance is cause by receptor downgrading because they have been bombarded with serotonin. check out the 'your brain on ecstasy' slideshow which is well explained and goes into excellent detail.
 
Merging threads: 'tolerance or damage' started by XSI11V, and 'MDMA tolerance/serotonin depletion' started by SkinLAB. These threads are on the same topic.

BigTrancer :)
 
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