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Opioids I wake up every 2-3 hours in W/D!! Why? How?

C

ColoradoBoy90

Bluelighter
Joined
Aug 12, 2015
Messages
219
BTW: I take all the pills orally and do not abuse or crush them. They are prescribed to me for major pain and injuries, and Doctor has no idea why it happens, so any response of "talk to your doctor" -- I already have which is why I was given sleep aids...

This is crazy. I take 30 to 40mg of Vicodin and 20mg Opana ER daily, one in morning and one at night. I normally only take 5mg hydro per dosage, problem is I take it every 2-3 hours. Sometimes I even will take another 5mg dose only 1.5 hours after last dosage. So I take small dosages of Vicodin throughout the day often.

So say I go bed to at 12 midnight, and take 10mg of Opana before bed. I can wake up as soon as 2am coughing in major WD with extreme chills, restless legs, crazy sweats, etc, etc, etc. It goes away after I take another pain pill, so yes it's WD no question. . So I take another Vicodin and fall back to sleep....Well, actually my normal 5mg Vicodin dosage for some reason doesn't work when I wake up in W/D I normally have to take at least 7.5mg of hydrocodone to fall back to sleep. My guess is because I'm not eating it food, as normally food increases it. But still Only to wake up coughing 2-4 hours later with same WD!! Sometimes I wake up as soon as 1.5 hours later in WD! I don't get it. I even tried to take: 10mg Opana right before bed + added an extra 10mg oxy right before bed. I still woke up about 3.5 hours later in WD!

Considering my normal dosage is only 5mg of Vicodin, how In the world can EXTENED RELEASE of 10mg Opana not stop WD for at least 8-12 Hours? According to a conversion: 10mg of Opana is equal to 30mg of hydro:
SO IN ONE 10mg OPANA PILL BEFORE BED IT'S EQUAL TO MY ENTIRE DAILY HYDRO DOSAGE!!! That's 6x stronger than my normal 5mg hydro dosage... So there is no reason I should be having WD at all...It's like equal to releasing 6 of my 5mg hydros over night. So how I can still wake up in WD is baffling. It's NOT the BA of Opana because I tried taking 20mg of oxy before bed and I still wake up in WD, and oxy has high BA... I used to be on oxy before the Opana.

What the heck. Is there any reason for this? Anything I can try to stop it? I haven't slept a full night without waking up constantly in like a month. I now take sleep aids like lunesta or Ambien for sleep, and even tried Remeron (which is like a super strong benadrly X10
+ an antidepressant). They knock me out for sleep but I still wake up in WD every few hours... So sleep aids don't work.. Any other options?
 
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Remeron? Damn that's pretty desperate. Try lope.

Anyway, yup welcome to the world of opiate WDs. Just be thankful you can kick comfortably in your bed instead of a concrete jail cell. Imagine getting 20mins of sleep at a time AT MOST.
 
Its the opana. Its nasty stuff. I would wake up shaking like 3 hours after slamming that shit.

It is some special kind of sickness and I never seen anyone use that shit for a prolonged period of time and not have serious consequences like dying, like I don't even get emotional when people die these days unless it was someone I was umm intimate with and still on good terms with.

Anyways let me put it like this my friend got some to get off smack and quickly got some smack to get off the opana if that gives you an idea. I ain't talking about just iv users here either. But iv that time release and you really can die easily.

I wouldn't suggest coming off a psych med, as far as they go remeron and seroquel did ok by me cept kinda a zombie.
 
BTW: I take them all orally as intended I do not abuse them, crush them, or shoot them.

And the doctor recommend Remeron.. And prescribes all this legally due to major pain and injuries but dr doesn't know why I keep waking up. That's why they gave me sleep aids to see if it would help... They help me fall asleep but the WD is overpowering and forces me to wake up constantly.

I only have extra oxy to take because Opana was stronger so I had some leftover pills. Doctor said its fine for me to switch if needed until I run out.

But they can't explain my waking up constantly.

You think it the Opana? I take it orally. Always have with all pain meds. I had the problem on ER Oxyxodone too, but now that I think back it was only waking up 1-2 times and sometimes non at all. So maybes it's the ER Opana? Weird I thought since its stronger it would keep the WD away longer.

Would hydromorphone ER be worth a try, or will it be same as opana? Or should I tell my doctor the Opana is likely messing with my sleep?
 
I found hydrom kinder.

I used to take my medication as directed.

I would imagine your tolerance would be one par to an abuser but on a smaller scale but a habit is a habit. If you gonna be on CPM I would really reccomend against oxy anything.

Lyrica really helped me with shooting pains and muscle relaxers with muscle spasms. I have had some very serious injuries and well you learn to live with it or you don't.

Pain pills only take the edge of your pain so maybe cut back before you get more addicted or just be honest and say you want something weaker. Doctors sure push you towards oxy type drugs and synthetic shit but I find only the classic opiates really work for me and don't give me bad wds.

Withdrawal is part of chronic pain management so maybe see about something for naseau cuz you might be confusing that with wd like I did.
 
dopemaster said:
Its the opana. Its nasty stuff. I would wake up shaking like 3 hours after slamming that shit.

It is some special kind of sickness and I never seen anyone use that shit for a prolonged period of time and not have serious consequences like dying, like I don't even get emotional when people die these days unless it was someone I was umm intimate with and still on good terms with.
Click to expand...
For me IV oxymorphone worked great for 4-6 hours IV while if I have oxycotin for matinance it works for 6-8 hours.

If your dose is too small it will be a very short effect with little relief. I find it takes a certain point to get full lasting effect and doing any more is just recreational waste.

Edit: If you can get ER hydromorphone you might find it better orally than oxymorphone, but it's effect is much shorter lived due to a faster metabolism of hydromorphone.

Edit 2: As the poster below stated metabolism is definitely faster as you sleep.
 
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I don't know if this helps, but I had a similar experience with methadone. It didn't matter when I dosed ( morning or evening), but as soon as I slept it was like it "wore off". I would wake up in minor withdrawal. They always thought it was the dose, but it happened to me whether on 20 mg or 90 mg. I also had that problem back when using heroin--going to sleep killed any high/effects.

However, after being stymied I learned the reason for why methadone affected me like that. Methadone's bioavailability and half life are very pH dependent. When the body is too acidic, up to one-third of ingested methadone can be excreted in urine unchanged. Meaning the body just passed it on through. And your body's pH drops *during sleep*. Which explained why I always woke in wd. Taking baking soda or tums helped raise the pH prior to dosing which helped some. I did some research on what to do

Now, I know that it is methadone not oxymorphone or hydrocodone which is specifically pH sensitive. But maybe for you it does have something to do with what happens when your body goes to sleep. I have no idea if the opiates you are taking can be affected by your body's acidity/alkalinity. You may want to look into it, I'm just throwing my experience out there as a possibility


Also--it seems your wd is alleviated by taking the hydrocodone, which is prescribed normally for every 4 hours (or 4-6), I know from experience it seems to last about 3-4. Perhaps the hydrocodone is simply wearing off? Or wearing off faster due to sleep? (Like I said it happened for me with heroin, it wore off faster) I know you shouldn't go into wd theoretically as you're taking opana. But if your body is used to the opana (you dose every 12 hours so that is always in the system; it becomes your baseline almost) PLUS the hydrocodone, then when the hydrocodone wears off you feel the onset of wd.

So, maybe if you were to have a steady hydrocodone level during sleep you wouldn't have this issue...have you considered trying the ER form of hydrocodone for sleep hours? If you could then sleep you could be reasonably certain it's the hydrocodone wearing off causing the sleep issue

Do you take name brand opana or generic? I know you're not abusing them, but even pain patients who don't abuse them hate the new formulation. Some people say they pass through the body unchanged. Maybe you're not getting what you should out of them and could try generics or a higher dose? Do you notice relief from an opana when you don't feel good, or just the hydrocodone?

Hopefully one of these options may help. Everyone's body is different, but you're not on high doses, so your issue has to do with what's happening when you sleep (chemical change). Hopefully this is a starting point to figure out your issue
 
I would look into what opioid receptors those opiates you are taking agonize and/or antagonize and if Vicodin affects different receptors I would look into other opiates that affect the same receptors as Opana.

For me oxycodone does alter dreamstates and I have to take my morning dose as soon as I woke up and wait for some time until I can get out of the bed due shitty feeling although I have taken my evening dose just six hours before waking. Sometimes I have taken part of the morning dose at night as I have felt so bad I can't sleep. On the day and at the evening I don't feel the same even if there is 18 hours between morning and evening dose.

Hydromorphone was even worse. I would wake up every one to three hours too and take some more even though I was on extended release version.

Currently I am taking 3mg melatonin everytime if I woke up feeling shitty and it does help.
 
dopemaster said:
Its the opana. Its nasty stuff. I would wake up shaking like 3 hours after slamming that shit.

It is some special kind of sickness and I never seen anyone use that shit for a prolonged period of time and not have serious consequences like dying, like I don't even get emotional when people die these days unless it was someone I was umm intimate with and still on good terms with.

Anyways let me put it like this my friend got some to get off smack and quickly got some smack to get off the opana if that gives you an idea. I ain't talking about just iv users here either. But iv that time release and you really can die easily.

I wouldn't suggest coming off a psych med, as far as they go remeron and seroquel did ok by me cept kinda a zombie.
Click to expand...

This pretty much captures what I was going to say, Opana is the most brutal narcotic to withdraw from IME, and the withdrawals come on really fast. It also skyrockets your tolerance real fast, which is probably the issue here.
 
MrRoot said:
I would look into what opioid receptors those opiates you are taking agonize and/or antagonize and if Vicodin affects different receptors I would look into other opiates that affect the same receptors as Opana.

For me oxycodone does alter dreamstates and I have to take my morning dose as soon as I woke up and wait for some time until I can get out of the bed due shitty feeling although I have taken my evening dose just six hours before waking. Sometimes I have taken part of the morning dose at night as I have felt so bad I can't sleep. On the day and at the evening I don't feel the same even if there is 18 hours between morning and evening dose.

Hydromorphone was even worse. I would wake up every one to three hours too and take some more even though I was on extended release version.

Currently I am taking 3mg melatonin everytime if I woke up feeling shitty and it does help.
Click to expand...

Pretty sure they're all just plain mu agonists that he's taking....
 
Kratom will absolutely help. Been using between .3-.5 of IV heroin a day and I'm probably 36 hours since last shot. Took 6-8 hs kratom
 
Kratom will absolutely help. Been using between .3-.5 of IV heroin a day and I'm probably 36 hours since last shot. Took 6-8 hs kratom this morning. Feel okay besides some nausea. Will pepto help curb this. It's actually pretty intense and I was to redose before I have to go to work. Any advice would be appreciated.
 
How can withdrawal possibly come on so quickly? Narcotics have always promoted sleep and gone along well with falling/staying asleep IME, from short to long acting ones (I've gone through periods of using oxy only, roxi's only, H only, bupe only, and bounced from each of those to bupe and back to another multiple times).

I can't account for what OP is experiencing. Have you tried temazepam yet? Its usually the first benzo your doc will prescribe to you for sleep.

If that doesn't work, klonopin or diazepam will definitely help you sleep and are long acting.

Careful, all three above drugs are benzos and highly addictive and dangerous to mix with other depressants.
 
Phil.McKeer said:
How can withdrawal possibly come on so quickly? Narcotics have always promoted sleep and gone along well with falling/staying asleep IME, from short to long acting ones (I've gone through periods of using oxy only, roxi's only, H only, bupe only, and bounced from each of those to bupe and back to another multiple times).

I can't account for what OP is experiencing. Have you tried temazepam yet? Its usually the first benzo your doc will prescribe to you for sleep.

If that doesn't work, klonopin or diazepam will definitely help you sleep and are long acting.

Careful, all three above drugs are benzos and highly addictive and dangerous to mix with other depressants.
Click to expand...
The WD really happens that often. My best link is because I take hydro ever 2 hours so my body is used to a constant dose of hydro and Opana isn't cutting it. I also take Clonzepam 10mh before bed. Yes, 10mg at bed all at once. I am prescribed double that per day, but don't take that much. The max dosage allowed. I have been on benos forever so they don't do anything besides keep me out of beno WD and having spasms/etc.

The quote below also makes sense. I take brand name and am very acitic I drink soda always never water.

Also this problem is new Semi new... Been on opiods for years. Happened shortly after I started to smoke double the cigarettes which always made me feel very acidic/etc.

Also I may not seem like I'm a high dosage but I am. I would experience the same WD someone taking 5 times my dose would... Due to Methodism, and my weight which is embarrassing... I'm like a high school girls weight so the WD I have been through has been just as brutal as the worst ones I read on here =\

crzydiamond said:
I don't know if this helps, but I had a similar experience with methadone. It didn't matter when I dosed ( morning or evening), but as soon as I slept it was like it "wore off". I would wake up in minor withdrawal. They always thought it was the dose, but it happened to me whether on 20 mg or 90 mg. I also had that problem back when using heroin--going to sleep killed any high/effects.

However, after being stymied I learned the reason for why methadone affected me like that. Methadone's bioavailability and half life are very pH dependent. When the body is too acidic, up to one-third of ingested methadone can be excreted in urine unchanged. Meaning the body just passed it on through. And your body's pH drops *during sleep*. Which explained why I always woke in wd. Taking baking soda or tums helped raise the pH prior to dosing which helped some. I did some research on what to do

Now, I know that it is methadone not oxymorphone or hydrocodone which is specifically pH sensitive. But maybe for you it does have something to do with what happens when your body goes to sleep. I have no idea if the opiates you are taking can be affected by your body's acidity/alkalinity. You may want to look into it, I'm just throwing my experience out there as a possibility


Also--it seems your wd is alleviated by taking the hydrocodone, which is prescribed normally for every 4 hours (or 4-6), I know from experience it seems to last about 3-4. Perhaps the hydrocodone is simply wearing off? Or wearing off faster due to sleep? (Like I said it happened for me with heroin, it wore off faster) I know you shouldn't go into wd theoretically as you're taking opana. But if your body is used to the opana (you dose every 12 hours so that is always in the system; it becomes your baseline almost) PLUS the hydrocodone, then when the hydrocodone wears off you feel the onset of wd.

So, maybe if you were to have a steady hydrocodone level during sleep you wouldn't have this issue...have you considered trying the ER form of hydrocodone for sleep hours? If you could then sleep you could be reasonably certain it's the hydrocodone wearing off causing the sleep issue

Do you take name brand opana or generic? I know you're not abusing them, but even pain patients who don't abuse them hate the new formulation. Some people say they pass through the body unchanged. Maybe you're not getting what you should out of them and could try generics or a higher dose? Do you notice relief from an opana when you don't feel good, or just the hydrocodone?

Hopefully one of these options may help. Everyone's body is different, but you're not on high doses, so your issue has to do with what's happening when you sleep (chemical change). Hopefully this is a starting point to figure out your issue
Click to expand...

I take brand Opana. Took generic and same problem before.

I think you are onto something. I am super acidic and drink soda all day everyday including when I take a pill(s). I will try that tonight. Does Pepto count? Or do I need like Alka selizuer/tums? I could take both.

Also maybe you are right. I take 5mg of hydro ever 2 hours instead of 10mg ever 4 hours. My body is maybe used to the constant hydro and Opana isn't good enough. Before I was on Percs same daily dosage as now
but switched to Vicodin at same dosage and had zero W/D. This was like 1-2 years ago.

Hydrmorphone also seems to have the most effect on me, which Vicodin breaks down into.. And Hydrmorphone is 33% stronger than OxyMorphone. Maybe my body is turning a very larger portion of the Vicodin into HydroMORPHONE Therefore making the Opana actually weaker? It's possible.

Insurance don't cover Zyhydro yet being so new, but may be worth a try. First I'm going to try to be less acidic at night before I take my last Vicodin dosage and before taking my Opana at bed. Will see if that works. Hope it does as it makes sense. I have a diet of fast food and soda, literally.

ALSO: I feel more WD relief from Vicodin then Opana... But I'm guessing is because 10mg is being released over 10-12 hours so I don't get "hit" all at once. I know OxyContin releases 1/3rd instantly and the remaining over 10-12 hours. Does Opana also release 1/3 instantly and the rest over 12 hours? Or is Opana just pure slow release and doesn't release a good portion immediately like Oxy does?
 
Eating a fatty meal 30 minutes before your opana is supposed to help increase bioavailability.

Edit: The 1/3 instantly thing doesn't matter neither does pooping the pill whole as they are designed that way and if you lab test it you're likely to find less than 10% of the active content in it. It has nothing to do with the pill not releasing.
 
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Those anti abuse matrix pills haven't been introduced in the UK yet (although oxymorphone isnt available anyway). The oxycontin we have is still the old OC mind though.

Seems a shame for people who really need the meds that they should be given an inferior product purely to prevent abuse in others.
 
Always eat a fatty meal. In fact if I don't it dosn't seem to work as well.

In fact I eat food with ever hydro dosage. If I don't? I can still feel WD unless I tsken another Another pill. So know about the fatty meal thing and it works big time. If I don't eat food the pills hardly work.
Only thing I have not been able to figure out is; should I eat BEFORE my dose or like 10
Mins after? Both work work fine, just not sure if one works better than the other to get the full fatty food boosts.

I know you said 30 mins before but it seems to work best to eat 5 mins or so after the dose... Any idea why?
 
I don't know why they recommend 30 minutes, but it was on the prescribing info from pharmacy that came with the opana. I think it said about eating 30 min before and then don't eat for 1.5 hours after. But everyone's different and if you found what works for you, stick with it. I think the 30 min before is so it starts digesting ?

And to answer an earlier question, as far as acidity/alkalinity. Yes your body becomes more acidic while you sleep so starting out not so acidic would help. I dont know if pepto would work, maybe, but something like baking soda (supposedly the best) , tums, Tagamet (or other antacids) are your best bet
 
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