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0382774
20-05-2015, 02:14
Hi guys, i have three questions to ask.

1.) What is ego death?

2.) What do you experience in ego death?

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?

And another thing, if anyone here who decides to comment has experienced ego death, may you please share your story if you don't mind?

jammin83
20-05-2015, 02:18
The search function is your friend:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/753739-LSD-and-ego-death?highlight=LSD+ego+death

I would be careful about wanting to achieve one. High doses of psychs aren't always enjoyable.

Thomas Davie
20-05-2015, 05:02
Hi guys, i have three questions to ask.

1.) What is ego death?

2.) What do you experience in ego death?

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?

And another thing, if anyone here who decides to comment has experienced ego death, may you please share your story if you don't mind?

Can't answer #3 because I've never tried LSD; but I can't tell you how I experience it on mushrooms..

I can always tell when it's coming because my whole observational field diminishes and then disappears. The person who is me can't see or hear (normally), The concept of taste, smell and touch slowly vanish and become a memory. I have a body, but don't know what it is. And then the body becomes a memory, which also fades. At this moment I am pure thought, but remember that I was once physical. That too, goes away and I am thought that always has been. And then I think about things for quite a while, sometimes reaching an epiphany and usually failing to bring it back to the real world. It is like switching off every aspect of my personality and becoming a processing unit.

And then you can start to switch things in reverse, generally, until I am back to 'normal'. Normal in this case, means still tripping, but I know I am me. In other words now repossessing self awareness.

eh, hope this helps.

Tom

Peacephrog1972
20-05-2015, 14:11
http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/757841-Backwards-amp-Traumatizing-(A-Bad-Mushroom-Trip)

I would w
Say this trip report is a classic example of ego death....and I don't think she enjoyed it!

PotatoMan
20-05-2015, 16:48
Ego death is a subjective experience where as the mind's awareness of self is diminished if not completely forgotten for a period of time and during this time the brain goes through a rewiring process.

This is a fantastic thread on the opinions from various users on the PD forum on the topic of ego-death. (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/722202-Debate-What-is-ego-death)

HZTB
20-05-2015, 17:45
I have some grasp of the concept of ego death, but I'd like to know if the experience is enjoyable, if you gain something from it and if it's something you want to experience again afterwards.

max_freakout
20-05-2015, 18:01
1.) What is ego death?

2.) What do you experience in ego death?


Psychedelic drugs alter the nature of perception by loosening the mind's association networks, ego death is generally understood as being the most extreme degree of mental loosening, ie the most intense powerful altered state, the most fucked up extreme drug trip.

At the extreme deep-end of the psychedelic altered state, the mind (ie the mental association network) completely dissolves and this is where ego death occurs.

the term 'ego death' specifically refers to the tendency to mentally self-terminate during an extreme trip, by thinking to oneself something along the lines of "im tripping so hard i can never be normal again, i've snapped, I've died, I don't exist etc.". Ego death means temporarily losing the feeling of personal reality during a trip.





3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?


230ug of LSD is a very high dose, a fairly high dose of any psychedelic can cause ego death.

But dosage is not the only important factor, the *setting* of a trip experience can intensify and focus the trip-effect to increase the chance of experiencing ego death. Per Mckenna, tripping alone on a high dose whilst meditating silently in a dark room is probably the optimal way to have a strong trip where ego death is likely to occur.



And another thing, if anyone here who decides to comment has experienced ego death, may you please share your story if you don't mind?

There are many articulate descriptions of people's ego death experiences in previous threads on bluelight, and elsewhere on the internet. Erowid has hundreds of trip reports that demonstrate what ego death is all about, for example the following: http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=60646, http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=6409, and http://www.erowid.org/experiences/exp.php?ID=43800

Ismene
20-05-2015, 20:12
I'm biding my time :)

Shadowmeister
21-05-2015, 23:42
I have some grasp of the concept of ego death, but I'd like to know if the experience is enjoyable, if you gain something from it and if it's something you want to experience again afterwards.

My first time with it, it was incredibly enjoyable, peaceful, and zen. I did not feel like I was dying, but like I had woken up into the oneness. I didn't forget my life, I just saw it as an infinitely small spack in the sea of my existence, which had become everything that exists.

The second time it happened, and the third, it was quite terrifying during the experience because I came to truly believe I was dying and that my death would reset the universe to its infancy. It was difficult to live through but I found the experiences incredibly beautiful and monumental in my life and I'm glad I had them. When I came back I knew I would want to experience it again someday, but not for a long time, and not something to be undertaken lightly.

thelastclubkid
25-05-2015, 13:16
ego death put simply changed my life... what it really is (in the simplest terms) is that the part of your brain that interprets things in the context of me and how I relate to the world gets shut down. Under normal circumstances this never happens as the brain and ego are really intertwined. its only through specific psychedelics that this can be achieved. My ego death experience was with Ketamine. I took a huge dose accidentally: roughly 3x what would put an experienced user into a K-hole and I was a novice user at the time. it happened so fast that I didn't even really have a time to be scared, rather it was just acceptance of the new existence that I inhabited. After when I finally came back to normal reality I was literally changed from that moment on. Now I have the ability to imagine and interpret everything from a perspective where ego is not a factor and this allows me to view the world completely differently, solve problems in unique ways, etc.

HZTB
25-05-2015, 15:04
That's very interesting. Could you give an example of the type of problem or thinking you're talking about?

swilow
25-05-2015, 15:09
Ah, this old beauty. Already populated by the usual suspects....:)

Vurtual
25-05-2015, 15:48
I think therefore i am...

I don't think therefore i am...everything (and/or nothing)

Ego is separation (i am this, you are that) - ego death/loss is reuniting (we are one)

levels
25-05-2015, 19:12
^ that summarizes it beautifully Vurtual.

It can happen to anyone, anytime and on any dose (including no dose), but the reality is you gotta get to know yourself well enough to face the fear of losing your ego. They call it death for a reason — even the death of an illusion can cause fear and confusion. When you realize the futility and hopelessness of fighting it loses its hold. What replaces it is always closer to the truth of who you are.

Ismene
25-05-2015, 23:07
I took a huge dose accidentally: roughly 3x what would put an experienced user into a K-hole

That's still a tiny dose compared to the dose they use medically, even with little kids.

thelastclubkid
26-05-2015, 10:21
That's still a tiny dose compared to the dose they use medically, even with little kids.

oh I realize that... I know guys that do 100 mg lines and can function quite mormally due to tolerance issues.. nevertheless this was enough for me (at that time) to really do the trick.

thelastclubkid
26-05-2015, 10:40
That's very interesting. Could you give an example of the type of problem or thinking you're talking about?

it can literally be anything from complex science (I am an engineer) to relationship problems to just understanding human behavior... for me everything can be simplified down to component parts that can be solved individually and simply.. so for instance when I would deal with a large problem; how to write a huge block of code to accomplish a complex task, now my mind automatically breaks that down into the simplest components of code and I can easily concentrate on getting those done. With things like intrapersonal problems that people have I can really get in another persons mind easily and understand what is holding them back or bothering them and express that to them or others.

I have a very shamanistic or spiritual view on life now with the irony being that I was the guy that always kinda laughed at other people who were like that. I was always like "oh boy here we go with all that third eye crap.. this is what happens when you do too much drugs" and now of course I've become that guy... and the humor is not lost on me. The other inside joke I have with other people who have become this way (and it always seems to be through ego death) is we call it being "being in the club" when I am out socially interacting with people I can tell pretty quickly who is in the club or not.. I think it has something to do with the personality change.

HZTB
26-05-2015, 11:28
Thank you for your input. This all sounds like valuable skills and insight.

I kinda know what you mean about your newfound spiritual view on life. I'm an atheist and a very rational person, and although I've always been interested in for instance the interconnectedness of all things (in a scientific way, ie "we are all made of star stuff"), after my first trip I came to appreciate this in a more intrinsic way. It also made me less of a cynic.

viper95
26-05-2015, 20:48
Ego death to me:

When you cant remember anything. Like if you were born 5 seconds ago. Its a little bit scary at first but if you let go it'll be all right.

swilow
27-05-2015, 12:07
^Its impermanent too, just like pretty much everything. :) You always return, but you can take something with you...

levels
27-05-2015, 17:43
^Its impermanent too, just like pretty much everything.

I've experienced ego death but still have an ego. The ego death produces lasting effects, but ego comes back, lightened and more transparent, but ego nonetheless. The first time I had one of these experiences the aftereffects ( a feeling of no thoughts and inner radiance) were strong for 4 days after my trip. I sometimes call it ego dying instead of ego death for this reason. Don't expect an ego death to be the end of your journey. Truly eradicating ego or seeing oneself as truly separate from it must be enlightenment.

thelastclubkid
27-05-2015, 23:43
Nobody can get rid of their ego. The ego is an integral part of the brain and will always function. What is important about ego death is that even though it is a temporary phenomenon it can teach you to override your ego once you are back in the normal world. This is where much of the enlightenment comes from. IMO you really only need to experience ego death once and you are set for life... e.g. your brain really only needs understand how to function this way one time through chemical interdiction and from that point on it can remember this way of thinking even in sobriety.

Personally my belief is that what many people consider to be ego death really is not unless they relate this feeling of enlightenment, loss of fear, and willingness to give in to the unknown.. it is a different state of mind.

Flynnal
29-05-2015, 06:13
You know, what for it's worth, I am going to see if I can get my hands on say 12 tabs of 100ug LSD.

I want to take two small doses first, say 100ug, and one bigger dose, say 200ug, and then finally a really big dose, say 800ug.

Maybe this will wipe out the trauma of those mutilated screaming infants that is literally driving me to consider suicide. I don't want to die, I just want to stop the pain.

onepumpchump
29-05-2015, 15:09
^ummm, what?

I really wouldn't recommend taking huge doses of acid to try and forget something traumatic. That is the exact OPPOSITE thing I would do.

Don't forget the most important consideration when taking Psychedelics- Set and Setting

phuckingnutz
29-05-2015, 18:31
Ah, this old beauty. Already populated by the usual suspects....:)

It's been a while for me, but I can't resist...
Ego Death is the dissolution of boundaries...you are one with everything. It has little to nothing to do with the Freudian ego.

levels
29-05-2015, 18:59
Maybe this will wipe out the trauma of those mutilated screaming infants that is literally driving me to consider suicide.

It isn't a dose thing so much as it is about being able to navigate it. The higher the dose the harder it can be to navigate, so I'm thinking lower doses are your ticket. The most direct way out of this is to go into this, so I respect your need to explore it. Mutilated infants isn't as crazy as it sounds. It's a common theme in Stanley Grof's work. Sounds like you got some difficult terrain to navigate, but all you gotta do is feel it to heal it. The more hopelessly resigned you are to feeling it, the more that energy loses its hold in your mind.

Ismene
29-05-2015, 20:28
Only a small percentage are likely to experience something they describe as an "ego-death". Mostly it's people who attribute almost any intense experience on psychedelics to being an "ego-death". I think it's popular in trip reports because people have cottoned onto the fact that if you want your trip report to be noticed and sound exciting you need to mention "dying" somewhere in it - otherwise they think it's boring. After all "dying and coming back" sounds really dramatic whereas "I tripped for a few hours and then stopped tripping" sounds really boring.

I've taken enough LSD, oral DMT and mushrooms in doses high enough to stun a charging silverback gorilla and always known exactly who I was, where I was and that I was tripping on a psychedelic. More than likely you'll be the same.

SteamboatBillJr
29-05-2015, 23:01
I haven't heard of Stanley Grof. Um K, who is this?

thelastclubkid
30-05-2015, 03:03
It's been a while for me, but I can't resist...
Ego Death is the dissolution of boundaries...you are one with everything. It has little to nothing to do with the Freudian ego.

I experienced this as well...

thelastclubkid
30-05-2015, 03:06
Only a small percentage are likely to experience something they describe as an "ego-death". Mostly it's people who attribute almost any intense experience on psychedelics to being an "ego-death". I think it's popular in trip reports because people have cottoned onto the fact that if you want your trip report to be noticed and sound exciting you need to mention "dying" somewhere in it - otherwise they think it's boring. After all "dying and coming back" sounds really dramatic whereas "I tripped for a few hours and then stopped tripping" sounds really boring.

I've taken enough LSD, oral DMT and mushrooms in doses high enough to stun a charging silverback gorilla and always known exactly who I was, where I was and that I was tripping on a psychedelic. More than likely you'll be the same.

I would agree with this... At first after this happened I thought that this state could be attained by anyone given enough of a give psychedelic but now the more I have talked about this with others I have seen that there are many people who have taken very large doses of psychedelics and not experienced this. There is obviously more to it.

psood0nym
30-05-2015, 03:28
Ah, this old beauty. Already populated by the usual suspects....:)
Your old thread "What is enlightenment? (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/724292-What-is-enlightenment)" contains the most satisfying answers to this question I know of on Bluelight.

Read through that thread and watch the linked to neurotheology lecture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqrpKUTMXgY) and you'll have a better idea of what's really being asked here than you likely would skimming dozens of similar threads around the internet.

MedicinalHeroin
30-05-2015, 06:03
1.) What is ego death?
The "ego" we're talking about here is actually what Freud calls a "super ego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Super-ego)" or inner critic. Basically the voice that is judging all incoming stimuli and outgoing actions. In an ego death or ego suppression, this voice in your head is either quieted or silenced completely. This is what often causes people to think they are dying on psychedelics when really its just their sense of an "I" that is dying.

2.) What do you experience in ego death?
You're able to see the world for what it really is. This sounds really mystical but I mean it very literally. When you're free of your ego you stop labeling and categorizing everything you experience (emotions are not as rigid as "sad" or "happy", objects are not defined as a "chair" or "bed" etc). The easiest example of ego loss you can experience is to look in the mirror when you're tripping. A common remark ive seen people make when they do this is "woah, is that what I really look like?" Your own appearance is one of the things you know best, so when you lose that perception its very obvious.

This separation from your own internal categorization is also responsible for the feeling of losing touch with reality. Aside from the fact that you might be visually and auditorily hallucinating, the loss of your ability to recognize and categorize all the stimuli you're experiencing causes some to feel as if they don't know what is "real" or not.

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?
At that dose its likely the user could experience an ego death, but it will more than likely be more "suppressed" than "dead." A 400ug LSD trip or a 5g (heroic) shroom dose, an ego death is almost guaranteed.

beniceman
30-05-2015, 14:34
1.) What is ego death?
The "ego" we're talking about here is actually what Freud calls a "super ego (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Id,_ego_and_super-ego#Super-ego)" or inner critic. Basically the voice that is judging all incoming stimuli and outgoing actions. In an ego death or ego suppression, this voice in your head is either quieted or silenced completely. This is what often causes people to think they are dying on psychedelics when really its just their sense of an "I" that is dying.

2.) What do you experience in ego death?
You're able to see the world for what it really is. This sounds really mystical but I mean it very literally. When you're free of your ego you stop labeling and categorizing everything you experience (emotions are not as rigid as "sad" or "happy", objects are not defined as a "chair" or "bed" etc). The easiest example of ego loss you can experience is to look in the mirror when you're tripping. A common remark ive seen people make when they do this is "woah, is that what I really look like?" Your own appearance is one of the things you know best, so when you lose that perception its very obvious.

This separation from your own internal categorization is also responsible for the feeling of losing touch with reality. Aside from the fact that you might be visually and auditorily hallucinating, the loss of your ability to recognize and categorize all the stimuli you're experiencing causes some to feel as if they don't know what is "real" or not.

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?
At that dose its likely the user could experience an ego death, but it will more than likely be more "suppressed" than "dead." A 400ug LSD trip or a 5g (heroic) shroom dose, an ego death is almost guaranteed.



What he said.

Ismene
30-05-2015, 15:45
Basically the voice that is judging all incoming stimuli and outgoing actions. In an ego death or ego suppression, this voice in your head is either quieted or silenced completely.

[/COLOR]You're able to see the world for what it really is. This sounds really mystical but I mean it very literally. When you're free of your ego you stop labeling and categorizing everything you experience (emotions are not as rigid as "sad" or "happy", objects are not defined as a "chair" or "bed" etc). The easiest example of ego loss you can experience is to look in the mirror when you're tripping. A common remark ive seen people make when they do this is "woah, is that what I really look like?" Your own appearance is one of the things you know best, so when you lose that perception its very obvious.

This separation from your own internal categorization is also responsible for the feeling of losing touch with reality. Aside from the fact that you might be visually and auditorily hallucinating, the loss of your ability to recognize and categorize all the stimuli you're experiencing causes some to feel as if they don't know what is "real" or not.

3.) Do you think that someone who doses 230ug on LSD can achieve ego death?
At that dose its likely the user could experience an ego death, but it will more than likely be more "suppressed" than "dead." A 400ug LSD trip or a 5g (heroic) shroom dose, an ego death is almost guaranteed.



In what way is this different from "tripping"? When you look in the mirror you appear slightly different because everything appears slightly different when you're tripping - it's nothing to do with anything dying.

I think we're confusing the effects of taking a psychedelic drug with "ego-death".

max_freakout
30-05-2015, 16:02
When you look in the mirror you appear slightly different because everything appears slightly different when you're tripping -
When you look at your ego from the intense psychedelic perspective it can 'appear' as a dead thing, whereas in the sober state of consciousness, the ego looks like a living thing (ie you feel that you are alive).


This difference in perception/perspective/appearance from the ordinary state to the psychedelic state is what explains the whole 'ego death' phenomenon. Ego death results from perceiving ego from the psychedelic perspective, ie seeing ego from God's point of view, or from the pov of infinite unity/oneness. From this altered state perspective, ego appears differently to the way it appears to sober consciousness.



it's nothing to do with anything dying.

more accurate to say it is to do with ego "appearing to be dead" rather than actually dying. That is why people experiencing ego death might say something like "I think im dead, am i dead?"



I think we're confusing the effects of taking a psychedelic drug with "ego-death".

These ^ are the same thing, ego death is the ultimate, threshold psychedelic trip, the result of ingesting psychedelic drugs

SteamboatBillJr
30-05-2015, 21:42
Your old thread "What is enlightenment? (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/724292-What-is-enlightenment)" contains the most satisfying answers to this question I know of on Bluelight.

Read through that thread and watch the linked to neurotheology lecture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zqrpKUTMXgY) and you'll have a better idea of what's really being asked here than you likely would skimming dozens of similar threads around the internet.

This thread and the thread you linked are completely unrelated. willow11 didn't mention ego in the comment you referenced. Ego death and enlightenment are separate concepts. After reading willow11's comment on enlightenment I glean willow11 views sense of self is an integral part of an enlightened awareness. willow11, am I accurate in making this distinction between your ideas and the others?


where the subjective self can objectively witness reality without creating values or distinctions, and (perhaps most importantly) this state is continuous and almost static.

levels
02-06-2015, 21:42
^ SteamboatbillJr, Stanislav Grof is one of the founders of LSD psychotherapy. Key figure in transpersonal psychology. These hellish landscapes are key themes in his work. He has many books and you can check out his website here (http://www.stanislavgrof.com/).

SteamboatBillJr
02-06-2015, 22:57
His name is Stanislav. His name isn't Stanley. Stanley isn't his ncikname either. Speaking of him you said:


Mutilated infants isn't as crazy as it sounds. It's a common theme in Stanley Grof's work.

I can't think of what made you say this. Mutilated infants aren't common in his work. I haven't found any reference of him mentioning mutilated infants at all. This disinformation miss-portrays this respected psychotherapist. Furthermore "hellish landscapes" aren't the focus of his work either. His most prominent work focuses on rebirth experiences. Could you provide me evidence supporting your claim his work focuses primarily on "hellish landscapes" involving "mutilated infants"?

His most recent publications portray a much different picture of his work than yours.




Healing Our Deepest Wounds:
The Holotropic Paradigm Shift
http://www.stangrof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/HODW-Cover-v3.sm_.jpg

Lillibit’s Dream
by Melody Sullivan, illustrated by Stanislav Grof
http://www.stangrof.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/Lillibit.Cover_.sm_.jpg

SteamboatBillJr
02-06-2015, 23:26
You know, what for it's worth, I am going to see if I can get my hands on say 12 tabs of 100ug LSD.

I want to take two small doses first, say 100ug, and one bigger dose, say 200ug, and then finally a really big dose, say 800ug.

Maybe this will wipe out the trauma of those mutilated screaming infants that is literally driving me to consider suicide. I don't want to die, I just want to stop the pain.

Could you elaborate on your trauma, if you feel comfortable? My initial recommendation is legal pharmaceuticals. Often recurrent thoughts can improve with the inclusion of the guidance of a psychiatrist. If modern pharmaceuticals weren't notably effective I infer professionally guided MDMA therapy is your best option. In some people LSD experiences have a light and shiny afterglow. In others, well, the after glow is more serious.

As a third option you could consider LSD. If I get this with my descriptor words. Treating what ails you with LSD is a gambit. A rebirth experience (also called and ego death experience) has a powerful reorganizing effect on your life. This could benefit you. When people return from the peak of the experience they often remember old forgotten memories. Stanislav Grof suggest memories from as early as child birth. As the participant integrates memories, the various parts of their identity, and environment they could experience a strong perspective shift. You could realize a few hallucinations, negative events, or other challenging experiences are really insignificant in the perspective of your entire existence. You can't alter the past. Though with these realizations perhaps you could realize you are the choices you make if the future.

max_freakout
03-06-2015, 01:19
Stanislav Grof formulated a major psychological theory about ego death which followed from Otto Rank's (a student of Freud) theory of perinatal experience (= the experience of the unborn baby immediately prior to and during its birth).

According to Grof's theory of 'perinatal matrices', the experience of psychedelic ego death is the mind's way of reliving the unresolved trauma of biological birth. Grof mapped out the various stages of ego death experiencing to the stages of birth as the foetus is ejected from the womb into the world.

levels
03-06-2015, 02:53
just trying to be helpful man. If you are already familiar with Stan Grof's work and think I'm off base with my description of his work, fair enough, not trying to sell you on it or anything.

Ergan
03-06-2015, 03:06
Well for me ego death was amazing I was thrown into the fourth dimension I could see and feel space it was pretty amazing I also felt like I was floating around my house XD

i achieved this with a high dose of DOC (13mg)

i think ink you would need a lot more than that, 230ug only gave me about a level 3 trip not very close to what you call ego death. 500ug will probs get you to ego death if you haven't done much before (any psychedelics)

psood0nym
03-06-2015, 03:50
Your old thread "What is enlightenment?" contains the most satisfying answers to this question I know of on Bluelight.

Read through that thread and watch the linked to the neurotheology lecture and you'll have a better idea of what's really being asked here than you likely would skimming dozens of similar threads around the internet.This thread and the thread you linked are completely unrelated. willow11 didn't mention ego in the comment you referenced. Ego death and enlightenment are separate concepts. After reading willow11's comment on enlightenment I glean willow11 views sense of self is an integral part of an enlightened awareness. willow11, am I accurate in making this distinction between your ideas and the others?
If you read on you'd have seen psychedelic ego death and how it might relate to "enlightenment" are discussed in that thread. They may have more to do with each other than you imagine. The linked to lecture is especially interesting.

Wutang_Forever
03-06-2015, 06:18
Ego Death is the dissolution of boundaries...you are one with everything
Something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNx-g5eNJSw

Kl519
12-06-2015, 10:58
Apparently some of the classic psychedelics like lsd and psilocybin are known to "break down the sense of self," according to David Nutt. He's a doc that I would trust on this subject.

So now we have a reputable quote to settle the controversy. I wish he said more on the subject though.

Oh and high doses are recommended to reach it. I'm going to assume that this is possible on just about any psychedelic, but of course only the safer ones should be taken to those heights. :)