Using Kratom for Suboxone withdrawal

I have been on 16mg suboxone for a little over a year due to a heavy addiction to heroin. I am finally done with being fed drugs from doctors that just want to keep me there for my money. Im done. I came across Kratom, and it appeared to be the "Miracle" cure for my issue. I am now on day 4 and I have taken approximately 2 tablespoons (~12 grams each) about every 4-6 hours but I am noticing some severe stomach cramps in between doses or closer to the 3 hour mark. I dont want to turn back to pharmaceuticals and Im well aware Kratom has its own addiction potentiality. Has ANYONE experienced what I am going through. I am also aware that I should have tapered my dose of suboxone before going off but I wanted to try and see how bad it would be and now I am dead determined to continue. The Kratom takes the edge off but it wears off fast, making me feel hopeless and in severe pain. What am I doing wrong. I am currently trying DXM to potentiate the kratom. Any ideas would be greatly appreciated. I really dont want to have to turn back to the suboxone.

I want to add that I have also started on 24+mgs of loperamide every 24 hours or so. I think this has done the trick. Either that or I'm getting closer to the physical withdrawal being less intense. Ive started parachuting 10g every 3-4 hours just to keep symptoms at bay. I realized i wasnt doing as much as Id thought due to the lack of proper measuring tools.

Well, I can't give too much advice because I've been on Suboxone just as long and am still on 2.5 strips. Failing miserably here with tapering. I can say, however, that I have attempted to quit Suboxone in the past, and due to the extremely long half life of the beuprenorphine, you won't even begin to feel much in the way of withdrawals until you hit the 3-4 day mark. It can last several weeks, but I think the severity of your symptoms should subside in about 10-14 days from the initial date you stopped taking them. What dose were you on before you stopped? If its more than two mg, I would consider going back to it and tapering until you reach this point before trying to quit. If you are still dead set on this, Valerian root, valium, and pot-especially for the stomach cramps- have helped me immensely. Though if you have had any issues with anti-anxiety medication in the past, I would stay away from the valium.
Also a bit curious on the DXM part of this. i had tried to trip with a friend off some a while back while still on 3 strips and had ended up getting EXTREMELY sick. I could not even sit up for three days because I felt so weak and tired, and felt the effects for about a week. i had never experienced such a thing before, but my boyfriend had told me it may have to do with Suboxone being a partial antagonist and working against the DXM. So, I would research that a little bit because you don't want to get extra sick if the DXM starts screwing with the sub you have left in your system.

Actually I am doing so much better now that I started taking the kratom at the 3 hour mark. My only concern is that I might run out before I get my next shipment. Im only using a low dose of DXM(30 mgs) which is said to potentiate the kratom. But yes weed works great! I havent been able to get any benzos and the Target near where I live ran out of Valerian root but I slept SO well last night. I took a combination of melatonin, Tylenol PM, Promethazine, and weed. I was knocked out till about 6 am and took another dose of kratom and woke back up at 9 am with no pain or withdrawal symptoms. Id have to say Kratom is the most incredible herb out there for this purpose. Im blown away at how great I feel. Id even go as far as to say I feel better than before I was withdrawling. Its great for my mood and it treats my depression. Also the loperamide is helping great too.

Btw I was on 16 mg before I quit. I am currently at the end of day 5.

Update-Day 7

Im just about out of Kratom and I wont get anymore until Monday(It is Sunday). I have about ~20g left. I slowed my dose down to 4g per dose when I realized I was running low. I decided Im only going to take it when I absolutely need it. I have about 1500 mg of Gabapentin so I'm gonna take a staggered dose of about 200mg per 45 minutes and that should take away the few w/d symptoms I have left. I currently am experiencing fatigue, shaky-ness, RLS, palpitating heart, and dilated pupils. The stomach pains have subsided so the remaining symptoms I can deal with with the assistance of the gabapentin. I also have adderall and latuda to help with the depression. So far Im happy I've stuck with it and I just cant wait to get to the other side of this. I really hope this helps anyone going through what I'm going through. Please feel free to ask me any questions.

Good Luck mistressred!

Just keep in mind that kratom is an opiate in the same way tramadol is an opiate.

The withdrawals from kratom can be pretty intense so make sure to watch those doses!

I completely agree with you David, I've started dropping my kratom dose from a tablespoon (~12 g) to a teaspoon (~3 g) and eventually I plan to only consume it twice a week. I'm done with drugs that cause withdrawal lol

Hey mistressred how are you doing today?

Hey there mistressred. I have been on methadone for 9 years. Yes, 9 years. Before that, it all started because of back problems. I'm a masonry contractor. I was on hydrocodone, oxycodone, blaa, blaa, you know. So to my point. I am wanting to use Kratom to come off of the methadone. I take 135mg a day, but I split dose that a lot of days (80mg/55mg). Right now I'm taking just 80mg a day for about a week, because I'm "short" a few days on my monthly take homes because of taking extra early in the month.
What helped you? Trying to put together a plan. Thanks for any info!

Hey guys I've been on subs 2-3 yrs now (down to 4mg) ,I was getting sick/panic attacks whenever Id lower my sub dose but now I have Valium & 90g of kratom from the homie...anyone have advice for me ? I only had 6 month dope habit (b4 was on/off pills/rcs/ everything else for years) and feel my sub clinic wants me on sub forever lol

taylor814ce & poloblue:

Have either of you looked into loperamide (immodium ad/generic) for help with detoxing/withdrawals?
I highly do not recommend kratom as it can be just as rough as opiate addiction and it is hepatoxic (toxic to your liver).
Some people are more susceptible to the liver toxicity and if you read the kratom mega threads on this forum you will find people that had serious hospitalizations due to this.
You can find reports on the internet about kratom addicts in Thailand that did not sit well with my stomach.

Granted I doubt anyone goes into a kratom assisted detox thinking they are going to trade one addiction to another, but no one thinks about growing up to be an opiate addict either.
It just happens.

I have been on methadone maintenance (240mg, twice) and suboxone (16mg), and am finally clean of both.

taylor:
I can empathize with you on the methadone situation, it is super rough. I had to be forced to get off of it in both of my cases and it was a nightmare. I would suggest switching to suboxone first to get used to the back pain you have. I have pain due to a botched surgery and have learned to live with it, as I learned couldn't take any pain meds. Otherwise I would look into getting a "blind drop or reduction. They do that at the clinics in my area and that is the only way I know of from friends that was effective long term. Normally I wouldn't recommend going on suboxone but seeing in that you have pain issues it might be worth it in the end run. When planning out recovery it is essential to do everything in your power to put yourself in the position of long term recovery. Quick fixes and short term gains are not worth it in the end if they fail. Go with a plan that gives you the best odds of beating this beast. I'm more than willing to help!

poloblue:
Congrats at getting down to 4mg! That's huge and you should be proud. I went from 16mg to 6 in 3 weeks in a detox, then gradually decreased down to .25mg 4 months. It seemed like a really long time, but I wanted to give myself the best odds at beating addiction and attaining long term sobriety. I decreased 2mg at a time until I got down to 2mg, than 1mg then .5 then .25mg. It was still hard mentally, but by that point I had no physical w/d symptoms. Which is huge. I use loperamide to help with the depression, irritability and insomnia. It totally takes care of all my symptoms except for lethargy. But no one said it would be easy.


I highly suggest that you look into and check out the dark side sub forum for help and insight.
Best of luck guys and I'm up for talking anytime, pm me.

*First post to bluelight, hopefully plenty more to come*
I'd like to add my own experiences for the above posters, and because I have gotten so much from bluelight I felt I needed to add something for others going through similar experiences.

Kratom does seem like a very good choice for acute suboxone withdrawal. I have used it in the past and had excellent results. Currently, I was down to less than a mg and skipping days of a relatively short stint (5 months) of suboxone use. At this dose and frequency of consumption, kratom will hold me through til at least 6 hours, and dosing only needs to be done on a 2x daily basis, once in the am (I believe this to be essential, not only since right as I wake up I have to prepare for work) and this dose gets me almost all the way through my shift. The second dose I take is at night, around 7, to allow me to get to sleep. Now, I understand that my relatively short duration of use and relatively low daily dosage make my story and the OPs very different, but considering bupes ceiling effect they may not be all that different. Perhaps the biggest difference is that I would be able to make it through unaided (as I have in the past).

A couple points that I have found important to kratom-assisted bupe detox is try to space the doses apart as much as possible, and try to limit the dose. This is not to add to your suffering, but I've noticed that kratom seems to lose some of its effectiveness with multiple dosing and dosing done too soon after one another.
The second, and I may receive opposing view points on this, is try to obtain some gabapentin. One of the major differences between my kratom assisted detox this time is the addition of gabapentin (originally added since I'm going through phenibut wds at the same time). If anyone is reading this, please know that IME 300mg of gabapentin will stop a 2+g a day phenibut dependence in its tracks and provide relief in well over 7 hour intervals. I will never attempt another phenibut wd without gabapentin again.

The gabapentin has reduced the severity of the wds immensely (as felt in the interdose wds experienced between kratom doses), and requires a time greater than the timeframe of acute suboxone withdrawal to develop a dependency issue, if one were to arise. In addition, it is quite easy to obtain from a dr, being as it is unscheduled.
Just my experience.

Thank you for the input David I'm going to look into loperamide, still haven't attempted lowering anymore just yet, I'm a terrible procrastinator & especially when it comes to this lol