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whiteroom67
02-07-2014, 16:01
Some strains are better for pain, but for me, they all seem to help anxiety. Some are more energetic, like the white veins, and the red veins are more sedating, and also better for pain. Also like al said, there is a limit to Kratom's effects... all of them. And yes make sure to get it from a reputable online vendor because headshop Kratom is horrible.

HdoubleODeezy
02-07-2014, 16:05
I agree about the helping with anxiety. Helps mine greatly..
Except in one case: While going through benzo wd lol.. shit fucks with you hard IME.

Doesn't do much for pain for me though.
Than again even when on dope or oxycodone back when I was an addict I didn't seem to get analgesic effects.
The only way it would help me deal with pain is make me feel "good" or put me in a great mood, only pain it would take away were pains from wds.
I think for me opiates just work to take my mind off the pain, not get rid of it (if that makes sense).

-HOOD

liftedgift
02-07-2014, 18:28
All kratom does for me now is gives me a mood lift. If you are expecting a strong opiate high, plain lead won't get you there.

HdoubleODeezy
02-07-2014, 20:38
I'm not looking for a strong opiate high.
I use kratom when I feel i need to for exactly the reason of a mood lift (like you said you get).
But also i become more creative when on it.. possibly do to the slight stim effects?
I'm a lyricist and I've written some of my best work on kratom and etizolam.
Synergize nicely for me.
Never tried anything like UEI and dont feel the need to. Plain leaf gives me the mellow anxiety relief plus mood lift and maybe a little body buzz type warmth.
But no, I don't know if you were referring to me about the "strong opiate high" comment, But that isn't what I use the plant for.
(which I know no one would/should receive a strong opiated high from it, only case I can think that someone might is maybe if it is their first opiate type experience they wont know better, or any different till they experiment with more opiates/opioids lol).

If you weren't referring to me, my bad. But im not arguing, im agreeing.. i just apologize if i stole or butted in to someone elses conversation. :\

-HOOD

apedosmil
03-07-2014, 04:53
Hah I feel like this entire forum consists of hijacked threads, but that's kind of the point right, everyone weighing in so we can be as safe/knowledgeable as possible? Like me, I know a bit about opiates from being prescribed, but I'm trying to find alternatives like kratom because I would rather not be a slave to this shit my whole life, and I know next to nothing about kratom. Finding a decent vendor outside of my local headshop has been a nightmare.

So I shouldn't base my experience on kratom on the "maeng da" capsules I got from my headshop?

Also the main reason. I wanna get off opiates is like, the stress of knowing my comfort level, my ability to work, my mental comfort is tied to something I have no control over. Most people can wake up and take a 3 day trip to the beach if they want. They don't have to worry "do I have enough meds to go away for 3 days and not get sick?" Or when the blizzard hit this winter and cvs supply route got fucked up and they were out of my meds, had to worry and hope they came in on time. Or if the fucking zombie apocalypse happened most people could rip and run. I'd have to be like wait wait wait, stop the armored school bus, I think that pharmacy is in tact!

Fuck all that noise.

HdoubleODeezy
03-07-2014, 05:27
Or if the fucking zombie apocalypse happened most people could rip and run. I'd have to be like wait wait wait, stop the armored school bus, I think that pharmacy is in tact!

lmao.

On that note:
Cure for zombie apocalypse.. give them high doses of benzos, alcohol and opiates for extended amount of time and cut them off CT.
They'll off themselves.

-HOOD

HdoubleODeezy
05-07-2014, 06:43
Sorry for the double post.. my last one was 3 days ago so i hope its ok, plus if i just edit it, it wont bump the thread..

Ok.. I been using kratom off and on for about a year (ever since i let my bupe PAWS pass, finally), usually 2 weeks on 2-3 weeks off with minimal wd.
Well I used for the 2 weeks like usual, but a different strain. Weird thing is, this strain didn't seem to have as much effect "mood lift", energy'productivity boost etc.
In fact I don't remember any effects from it really other than it satisfying my want/need to take it.
So.. to my point. This strain for 2 weeks that gave me almost no effects, now has me in stonger wd from stopping than the strain that usually works pretty well for me.. seems odd to me but ok, i get it.. gotta pay the price of "dabbling" once in a while.
To add on to this fact, someone in my household had a stroke recently and just got home from rehabilitation. Me being the only other man in the house and the strongest.. have been needed to help him a little (i feel like im dying myself, so i stay in bed usually until someone gets me and tells me to help him (which only has happened a couple times, thank god [if there is one] )
I am 3 days into the wd and know it could end within the next few days but the ex junkie in me made a dumb move, i ordered more (this time my usual strain) and i SHOULD be taking a break from it for a couple weeks. It comes in the mail tomorrow (would have been today but it was a holiday) and am going to wanna take it as soon as it arrives, and no matter what i say or tell myself.. i will take it. So here's another 2 weeks on that i shouldn't be doing.

Question is. It will be here in 12 hours. I slept most of today because of obvious reasons. So now can't sleep.
But im tired as fuck, im drinking an energy drink right now to get rid of the dragging ass feeling.
I take a bunch or rx meds daily, i wont list them. But one of the meds i take is a benzo, i double dosed to help comfort myself. It's working to an extent.
I also (stupidly) take phenibut daily but in small doses, usually 300 mg 3xday or 500mg 2xday. All it does since i take little amounts and have been for a while, is relax me and get rid of the nasty feeling i get when i dont take it. It was different when i first started taking it, ill explain the effects i got then in the next part of this question.
If I was to take right now 1.2g phenibut in kratom wds.. would it be enough to give me the feeling i got when first starting taking it? Energy, reduced anxiety, good feeling etc?
I just gotta hold on for 12 hours and feel like absolute shit right now. I wouldn't feel as shitty if i wasn't expecting more en-route to me for tomorrow.
But taking it off of my usual schedule is going to fuck it up and i will be dealing with this again in 2 weeks, but the reason im doing it (not only for myself) is so i can be of use to the person in my house that needs my help.
I'm a nicer more productive and helpful person on it and this would be a time when that will come in handy.
This person deserves my help beyond words, if it wasn't for him.. my life would be a lot worse than it already is (this person is my grandfather). I'm willing to go through wds later so i can help him when he needs it, a sacrifice i am more than willing to make.

So my point in all this is, dose 3x my normal of phenibut in addition to my benzos to help until tomorrow, or no? lol.
Long post for simple question i know, just also felt like venting what is going on right now.. my psych is proving to be useless once again.
Thanks for any answers, ill try to wait for a couple opinions before going ahead and doing, or not doing, what i am seeking guidance on.

-HOOD

EDIT: Reason I'm asking for opinions when usually i just take care of myself doing whatever I know will help, i literally can't think ATM that's how drained my body and mind feel.

EDIT 2: Ended up taking trazadone last night forcing myself to sleep.
Kratom came, not feeling shitty anymore, but keep having panic attacks (unrelated to this topic).
Anywayz.. i made it til today. Gonna take some benzos now to get rid of this crazy anxiety.

-HOOD

chooster101
26-07-2014, 08:11
I am a new Kratom user. It is part of a plan that never goes right, but hey its fun.
I have read all of the mega threads. I looked at Kratom for about the past 3 months.

By the way, I am not asking anyone to answer these questions, this is my work and fun time but any comments are great. This is what I am doing poking around in the Kratom forums all over the web. I have a different mood here at Blue Light and thanks to everyone for making it what it is. I stay here.
I am taking it for:
1. Pure recreational enjoyment evaluation. If I could only do Kratom would I be satisfied?
2. Not if but when I taper off opiates can Kratom help? IF so, how well and what works best with it?
3. I believe it has other value. What does it reportedly offer versus what do I feel day to day?

Today was my 3rd actual Kratom experience, or I should say is, I took this 3rd dose about 45 minutes ago. I purchased powdered, they didn't offer leaf. I simply mix it with the smallest amount of water i can chug, stir it well, and pop it down the hatch. Then I go for a "second wash" on the glass heh.

It is rare for me to only have one thing going in the evenings regarding what is rolling through my veins. When I took the Kratom I was already under the influence of opiates, smoke, nicotine, a little Phendimetrazine may be around but I do not continue use or use close to the dose of Kratom. Late in any opiate based experience I may add some xanax. .5 to 1. Since learning what a dangerous combination it is I stopped drinking when using opiates and benzos. It made the most sense rather than me keeping up with how much I drank.
(Do NOT MIX THESE things, it is dangerous, and can kill you. No shit, dead, don't do it.
The short version of this should be I am extremely careful when I mix these things, I am paranoid about it as I am many things, to the extreme. Yet I still manage to make mistakes which could cost my life. For HR sake, I wanted to make sure anyone understands I have used for pushing 30 years. I have learned more on how to be safe here, from you folks. Thanks. Do not mix alcohol, Xanax, opiates, kratom. I have not mixed alcohol with Kratom, but I have the other things. There are many reasons why not, 1 Dead 2 Dead3 Dead
IMO It dirties the buzz
If you get the opiate "grumpiness" with an alcohol rage you will do something you regret, stupid, and we are avoiding those situations.
Or, maybe the other way, want to have a good time and yeah, lets all have a good time. Broke the next day, hurting, sick, x100 when you are broke.
I prefer my opiates without alcohol, but I smoke with everything.

If you have any suggestions dealing with Kratom brands, how I should be taking my doses if I am looking for pain relief and recreational, I know you aren't my Dr., don't know my history, etc, so how about what you would take? Not that I would follow it unless it met my own, but for curiosity sake.
I am going to wrap this up with what Kratom flavors I am taking:
Super Green Bali was my first. I took 4 grams and felt nothing
Same strain the next evening I took 10 grams, was under the influence of opiates, but the Kratom gave me a euphoric glow and kicked in nice. If it was placebo I want it again as it lasted a long time, IE an hour or so which I am happy with for a good glow, intense ones anyway.

about 60 minutes ago i took 8.5 grams of the Super Green Bali and mixed it with 1 gram of Concentrated Maeng Da Kratom. They clai 1 gram of it equals 7.8 grams of unenhanced Maeng Da. As usual I have some other things, smoke and opiates, and can elaborate if anyone is interested, ROA, etc

**I understand my use of these things may / will cause fast jumps in tolerance, I am / will probably experience cross-tolerance and this is not a good idea if I want to use it to taper my dose down. I take many risks and put myself in the wrong situations I shouldn't, and sometimes there is not a need only my lack of education about it. I do appreciate any HR offered but I understand I take too much or mix too many things sometimes.

Drew.
27-07-2014, 13:12
^ I've read a many times in threads that you can't really boost an opiate experience with kratom. Especially if the opiate you're originally using is stronger?

I toss and wash, sometimes daily, mixing the red vain, white b, and green Malay together.
I only recently started trying this and find as little as 8g of this stuff combined floors me. To the point where I'm almost sick but still dwelling in an opi-stupor. Before the consumption I ate half a grapefruit as well (but I have has just as good an experience without it).

Also, I used to use morphine daily but broke the favor l habit probably two months before trying this stuff)

Edit:
Today, as of twenty minutes ago, I ingested (on empty stomach):
3.8g super Green Malay powder
2.4g red vain powder
2.2g white vain b powder

Already I feel the effects creeping in: slight nausea, then accompanied by a warm facial flush turning into a warm, enticing buzz.
But I am also feeling a residual "push" to do something or stay up, despite my relaxed intentions. If I gave too much together I might become a little shaky, but it's no different than having too much caffeine. I find eating helps two hours in. I'm usually starving by then.
This stuff when mixed works wonders - my hand and its swelling from potential arthritis no longer throbs. At the end of each week I look forward to using this and putting my hand in a bucket of ice water. At that point I can't feel it right;).

ThePredecessor
28-07-2014, 22:41
so Bali for a sedative feeling and Mang Pimp for an upper feeling?

whiteroom67
29-07-2014, 00:49
Mang Pimp... lol.

But yeah, you would be correct, basically.

chooster101
30-07-2014, 04:00
^ I've read a many times in threads that you can't really boost an opiate experience with kratom. Especially if the opiate you're originally using is stronger?

I toss and wash, sometimes daily, mixing the red vain, white b, and green Malay together.
I only recently started trying this and find as little as 8g of this stuff combined floors me. To the point where I'm almost sick but still dwelling in an opi-stupor. Before the consumption I ate half a grapefruit as well (but I have has just as good an experience without it).

Also, I used to use morphine daily but broke the favor l habit probably two months before trying this stuff)

Edit:
Today, as of twenty minutes ago, I ingested (on empty stomach):
3.8g super Green Malay powder
2.4g red vain powder
2.2g white vain b powder

Already I feel the effects creeping in: slight nausea, then accompanied by a warm facial flush turning into a warm, enticing buzz.
But I am also feeling a residual "push" to do something or stay up, despite my relaxed intentions. If I gave too much together I might become a little shaky, but it's no different than having too much caffeine. I find eating helps two hours in. I'm usually starving by then.
This stuff when mixed works wonders - my hand and its swelling from potential arthritis no longer throbs. At the end of each week I look forward to using this and putting my hand in a bucket of ice water. At that point I can't feel it right;).


With regards to "boosting" I'm sure there are many words, ways, phrases for what it did for me, but I am nowhere near as up to speed on chemistry as it seems several people here are. I will give you a kind of trip report from the last week which is my only Kratom experience to give, but if interested in the "boosting" this should prove useful.

I consider my tolerance to be above average. I fully understand and so should anyone else that anything I say about tolerance pertains to me, not you, especially not you :), seriously, don't fuck around and as they say, you can add more, once you are dead you can not take less. Do not combine, add, potentiate, and think you are following some super recipe the Drug Gods keep to themselves that you have stumbled across. Don't blindly follow something you read, understand what is happening and why you are doing it.

I have taken Kratom 3 or 4 times over the past week and I should remember exactly but heh, you know memory is one of the first things to go when you do too much to your brain, anyway I can never remember all the good times, but easily remember the bad. There was 1 bad experience.
It was the second time:
I use recreationally at the moment. I mentioned in another thread I bought it to use as a taper when needed off opiates. I have to know if it works and how to use it :) I decided to use it in a way to maintain my opiate "pain relief, buzz, whatever you want to call it irdgas" up until bed time and into sleep. I have always slept better on opiates, no restlessness, but that is another thread.
I will give you a quick run down of times from last night:
5: PM - IV 3(three) 4mg Dilaudid, generic and 6(six) 15mg IR Oxycodone, generic.
8: PM - Oral dose powdered Kratom 10.3 grams. Mix it up in a small amount of water and drink it down. - Empty stomach.
I feel the effects in about 20 minutes, consistently across all three "flavors" or "brands" I have tried so far.
The night I became nauseous it was about 45 minutes in. I didn't vomit, just serious nauseous. I eat a few tums around 4:45, but drank water otherwise since lunch.
The other times have been great, but not as great as more opiates. IF it builds tolerance to opiates in general (is that cross tolerance?) then it is not worth taking, if it doesn't it is, when you want the relief the combo offers. Price is also a consideration. What I bought must be the real deal, but the prices are not far away from opiate pricing on the street. Not that I do that I have prescriptions from my Dr.
Anyway, it is more synergistic than boosted. Kratom is different even though I may use the same words, and that is why I said if this is what you are looking for.

It did give me pain relief. I won't go into my details at this point but I am having a procedure on Friday and I am in a lot of pain everyday. As the worst of it starts to creep back in and I dosed the Kratom the slight euphoric was accompanied with pain relief and I was very surprised and pleased!. It came on with as I mentioned, slight euphoria, light body feeling, heightened and pushed the opiate glow which was there but almost gone and the areas I always hurt in the most were relieved int he same manner as the opiates do.
I can go into details of how much pain is relieved by any medication Ive tried and all those things, but no reason. It had the same affect opiates do which isnt saying my pain is gone by a long shot, it helps.

10: PM
I ate dinner, bad time to eat I know, but I took .5 mg Xanax before I ate, floss and brush and out cold.
4:30 AM eyes pop open and I can't go back to sleep and I am hurting like hell. Another day in the cycle

I do not take Kratom everyday and will not. To me it is not going to work as well.
I would drink a ton of water, and be prepared to piss for a bit constantly.
I was talkative and social. Says a lot for me. No anxiety, everything was alright.
I would not drive or operate anything dangerous on it at these doses and just like anything when you go out of your comfort zone the psychological effects are hugely increased.

Feel free to ask anything, but since I am still so new to it I will keep searching for more information on people using it as a taper. I think it ha potential for me to use it in that manner and plan on using it now to maintain and lower my opiate usage and get my plan together.

Mycophile
30-07-2014, 04:38
I'm wondering about other people's experiences with the difference between not drinking coffee on Kratom or only a little bit vs drinking A LOT of coffee on Kratom.

I have a pretty bad caffeine addiction in that I drink more than I wish I did and it doesn't always make me feel good but I'm addicted.

I drink about 4-6 cups a day...on the worst days it might go up to 7.

I just need to drink at least a few cups or I don't feel well, so everytime I do Kratom I drink coffee.

Am I correct that two have synergistic effects?


Cause the thing is, I still feel very nice on the RIGHT amount of Kratom and like 3 cups of coffee, but I am wondering how much it may change the experience from how it would feel on no coffee or at least less coffee.

I always feel so super stimulated but also euphoric on the combo, but sometimes I start wishing I didn't feel QUITE so stimulated and that the euphoria felt more pleasantly sedating like Oxycodone or Hydrocodone.

So I thought to myself "well, if you want less stimulating effects drink less coffee DUH!!!"

Easier said than done for me though.

And I know everyone says that Green and White strains are stimulating and red are sedating but to tell you the truth, I really haven't noticed the difference between any of them so far and I have taken a few of each strain.

Do any other heavy coffee drinkers on here find the Kratom high to be significantly different and/or more like Hydrocodone and Oxycodone and less like a super speedy version of the latter if they drink less or no coffee on it??

Any tips to getting a high off it that more resembles Vicodin or Percocet that isn't quite so damn speedy?

Thanks

HdoubleODeezy
30-07-2014, 04:59
Any tips to getting a high off it that more resembles Vicodin or Percocet that isn't quite so damn speedy?

Thanks

Take an antihistamine with it and/or drink a beer or two?
Just a thought.

-HOOD

chooster101
30-07-2014, 06:22
I think we have similar goals, you with coffee, me with opiates.
My DOC has always been whatever gets me a speedball effect. I prefer to go up, bounce around for a while then come down and sleep. However I am not a coffee drinker.
I am in touch with my pharms and in my few, limited experiences with Kratom I found the effects of speediness at the dose I took just above where I could feel anything. Of course that would be strain related, but that was how it worked for me.
Say I take 5 grams to feel anything at all and 25 will make me sick. If I was trying for a speedy dose at this moment I would take 6.5 and wait 35 minutes and then re dose up to another 4 or 5 grams. I feel like too much longer and the redose would not be as good, but in my experiences with things in general the longer the half life the bigger the redose window with many exceptions as always but I am talking about me, the strain I have, what I ate, smoked, drank, tooted, booted, flipped and rubbed on the inside of my wrists :)

I already know that at my tolerance yesterday 10.3 was not speedy (but was also combined with other things, but probably the same exact items and dosages today, so while double checking to be sure, I am the same in that respect) but that is if I was dosing tonight, and I am not.
Again, please no one take these amounts and simply replicate them, I am talking about me and what my body may be good on, and mixing things is not something to jump in at all. Neither is IV use. No alcohol is used. I do drink, but I do not drink and mix heavy narcotics or have intentions with Kratom.Narcotics and alcohol is a waste and makes me act stupid, again thats me, and Kratom with alcohol makes me think I will get sick and have a bad hangover.

ThePredecessor
30-07-2014, 14:32
Has anyone tried to plug kratom by making a tea and straining it through cheeeeez cloth? I did this once with H and it was amazing, I just wonder if it could be done with K :)

KyleOpium
30-07-2014, 16:16
Has anyone tried to plug kratom by making a tea and straining it through cheeeeez cloth? I did this once with H and it was amazing, I just wonder if it could be done with K :)

LOL! Seriously? How are you gonna plug a whole glass of liquid?

But if you're serious about plugging, go buy a full spectrum tincture. There are some that are 4 ml and the 4 ml are extracts of over 150 grams. I remember reading a report of someone on either this board or DF actually OD'ing on one particular FST, so it is for real. When I do it orally, one drop makes me feel like I took a roxy 30. So if you plugged it, you'd probably feel the same but with a rush.

drewbocop
30-07-2014, 16:23
Mang Pimp... lol.

But yeah, you would be correct, basically.

Yo, you got some of dat mang pimp, mang? :D


Has anyone tried to plug kratom by making a tea and straining it through cheeeeez cloth? I did this once with H and it was amazing, I just wonder if it could be done with K :)

Uh, don't do that.

Thanatos9
30-07-2014, 18:27
Has anyone tried to plug kratom by making a tea and straining it through cheeeeez cloth? I did this once with H and it was amazing, I just wonder if it could be done with K :)


Umm, no.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bznDjbQLzMo

weekend addiction
31-07-2014, 09:35
Has anyone tried to plug kratom by making a tea and straining it through cheeeeez cloth? I did this once with H and it was amazing, I just wonder if it could be done with K :)

People plug hard drugs because they are expensive and give an intense euphoria. Kratom is not a hard drug. It is neither expensive nor capable of causing an intense euphoria. If you want more out of kratom extract the alkaloids into water and or alcohol by heating it on the stove for a couple hours. Then strain and reduce the liquid down to a couple ounces.

Or you could get some enhanced kratom or UEI. Much better than sticking powder up your butt.

《Plasticity》
31-07-2014, 21:37
Haha "mang pimp" had me dying! I need to lay off the cannabis :(. As for plugging kratom I agree with weekend addiction, there are certain drugs that are very beneficial plugged and some that aren't and kratom just doesn't seem worth it. As rediculous as it sounds I actually tried to plug FST and it was totally ineffective so take that fwiw, certainly wouldn't plug a boiled down tea that's for sure. Reminds me of the thread with people plugging poppy tea which was also less effective than oral.
Just buy some UEI and eat the powder ;) (of course be responsible with any extract use!)

sekio
31-07-2014, 23:33
nor capable of causing an intense euphoria.

Maybe your expectations are too high, but this is very achievable with high-ish doses of kratom.

5meoh
01-08-2014, 02:01
just going to write a report as my first use of Kratom.

I've been on Methadone for 5 years, I'm currently on 10mg. I'm also on 2mg Clonazapam x3 times daily for panic disorder.

I'm using the Kratom "off shelter and not recommended" for post-operative pain.

Is it working for the pain? Yes
Is it giving me a "high"? Yes and no, I feel like a warm feeling similar to a pre-glow from taking Molly

This is my first time using it, I'm using White Borneo leaf, I have Green Horn Malayasia in transit (it's legal here). I will report back on the differences tomorrow for my situation (pain management).

Since my opiate tolerance is very very high and my metablolism is very very fast I took 4 grams, and 2.5 grams an hour later. I think that if I pushed it another 3 grams i would have a nice sedation but I am not in a position to be sedated right now.

More later.

Dosed another 2.5 grams, I get a slight wave of sedative hum in waves, but I generally just feel more alert and pain free. THe others who have likened it to Tramadol would be fairly on spot. Tramadol doesn't give me any nods/opiate type high but rather kills pain and gives a bit of energy. Tramadol unfortunately is a bit of a dangerous drug so I steer clear.

More if anything interested on the white vein borneo later. Tomorrow for Green Malaysian Menge De.

last comments on the white borneo, not that impressive as an RC but great as an analgesic compound, first pain free day in weeks. This stuff is great so far!

5meoh
01-08-2014, 03:58
Haha "mang pimp" had me dying! I need to lay off the cannabis :(. As for plugging kratom I agree with weekend addiction, there are certain drugs that are very beneficial plugged and some that aren't and kratom just doesn't seem worth it. As rediculous as it sounds I actually tried to plug FST and it was totally ineffective so take that fwiw, certainly wouldn't plug a boiled down tea that's for sure. Reminds me of the thread with people plugging poppy tea which was also less effective than oral.
Just buy some UEI and eat the powder ;) (of course be responsible with any extract use!)

Have to say, the thought of plugging tea just made me also spit coffee on my computer, please, for the love of god don't. lmfao

Rushgrip
01-08-2014, 06:52
Never plugged anything but I'm about to have Viva Zen it's a liquid 60 ml shot. I like to take 2 shots. Contains: kratom, white willow bark, White Lotus, wild dagga, skull cap, California Poppy and baswellia. I've had it before, its very effective. I like it I'm just building up the what it takes to drink it because it definitely has bitter flavor.

5meoh
01-08-2014, 16:14
So last night couldn't sleep at ALL, but was no longer sedated. I found that smoking herbal helped potentiate better than any other potentiators so far. This morning I am feeling nice..

Question on the Cali Poppy Flower, there is a store down the street.. only one in town that stocks it. But they have 1l bottles of the stuff. Is it in any way usefel as a herbal remedy? I also wonder if the dangerous alkaloids are removed from the liquid at the health food store.

Cheers,

Beavesmx44
01-08-2014, 22:47
^^^^2012 join date and your still swimming huh.......wow.

ed081873
02-08-2014, 00:10
Odd you mention that because Kratom and Tramadol feel almost identical to me, tramadol a little more warm feeling and longer lasting though.
But if i was given a blind equipotent dose of each, not sure if i could tell the difference.
I think it does have serotonin activity. Not sure which metabolite would have it but i think that is why it mixes so well with etizolam (because that has a certain effect on serotonin too if im not mistaken).
I always say that etizolam is to benzos as to what tramadol is to opiates (i think i worded that right).

About the fiber thing, i dont see how people get constipated from kratom. 1 cuz of the fiber and 2 because it seems to be more stimulant like than the opiods that block you up.
I find im more "regular" with my BM's while taking kratom.

I was just wondering like vitamins or carbs stuff like that. I guess we wont really be able to figure it out tho cuz it's not tested for that cuz it's "not for human consumption" lol.

-HOOD

I do not know the exact reason, but, I can say that kratom does indeed block you up almost like opiates. A little less, but it still definitely does...I have been 'burning' kratom for roughly 7 years and I have to make sure to take a fiber supplement. Also, as pointed out by whiteroom67, it does have powerful antioxidant properties. I was one who would always get about 1-2 bad colds a year, since I started kratom, I have only been sick ONCE in all those years! But it only lasted for 1 1/2 days, and I felt fine after. Totally true story!

ed081873
02-08-2014, 00:14
is it rational of me to think that if i try kratom i am as bad as a heroin junkie on the street begging for change?

or that it may lead me to ruin like them?

ABSOLUTELY Not! Kratom has many beneficial properties and it helps some people stay away from 'other' substances.

ed081873
02-08-2014, 00:19
My last few kratom experiences have been riddled with a plague of negative side effects.

I've tried it a few times in the past, a few different products from headshops, had some pretty decent experiences but nothing too crazy for better or worst.

Recently got my hands on some Maeng Da from two different vendors.

First time I tried to do toss and wash, puked.

Then onto capsules and when I finally got it down, despite some half decent effects, I ended up being overwhelmed with an experience reminiscent of a bad weed high but not exactly the same.If you're one who knows what I'm talking about, you may be familiar with the feeling of anxiety, quite heady, and not really fun, very psychological and also psychedelic in the worst way possible. Not even mentioning how it also makes me still feel kinda sick to my stomach and that feeling kinda also deducts from any positive.

I tried it a few times, some of them not being quite so bad, but the underlying difficulties are still present to some degree.

I was thinking perhaps a strain change would make a difference, but I don't know. Was thinking maybe less is more might be a better approach and then I was also maybe thinking at a higher dose, a euphoric opiate effect could come into play that would counter this, but quite doubtful of that.

Thoughts?

I would say to take a much lower dosage and change strains. My kratom doses are always between 1-2 grams only, 3 times a day. I also always weigh my doses so I don't over do it and it also saves you from wasting kratom. Once you find your "sweet spot" stay with that! Your tolerance also increases big time when dosing too much. In my experience, people always dose more than they need to. For me, LESS is always MORE for this wonderful [email protected]

Crunch554
02-08-2014, 04:01
My last few kratom experiences have been riddled with a plague of negative side effects.

I've tried it a few times in the past, a few different products from headshops, had some pretty decent experiences but nothing too crazy for better or worst.

Recently got my hands on some Maeng Da from two different vendors.

First time I tried to do toss and wash, puked.

Then onto capsules and when I finally got it down, despite some half decent effects, I ended up being overwhelmed with an experience reminiscent of a bad weed high but not exactly the same.If you're one who knows what I'm talking about, you may be familiar with the feeling of anxiety, quite heady, and not really fun, very psychological and also psychedelic in the worst way possible. Not even mentioning how it also makes me still feel kinda sick to my stomach and that feeling kinda also deducts from any positive.

I tried it a few times, some of them not being quite so bad, but the underlying difficulties are still present to some degree.

I was thinking perhaps a strain change would make a difference, but I don't know. Was thinking maybe less is more might be a better approach and then I was also maybe thinking at a higher dose, a euphoric opiate effect could come into play that would counter this, but quite doubtful of that.

Thoughts?

Proceed as though less is more. Try to take a dose that does not result in eye wobbles. I use this primarily as a stim. If I get eye-wonky, it's a sign I went a little aggressive with the dose. I really don't see how a massive dose of Kratom could be pleasurable . . . for me anyway. If i take so much that I can no longer make proper eye contact with people, it's a sign that additional side effects are to come . . . confusion, paranoia, cold sweats, etc.

I completely understand the, that much made me feel good-will twice as much be twice as good, approach. With most things more is better. Not this one.

Crunch554
02-08-2014, 04:25
im currently self employed and kind fo a workaholic, i dont want a drug habit to trash my productiviy/life. so is kratom agood one to take up?

i stopped doing stims cos they distroy me for days/weeks after physcially and mentally, so on top of it being extrmeely unpleasant when they wear off there is also the disruption of normal lifestyle.

regarding the existential issues i think my current thinking is- if im gonna want something to get by day to day anyhow i want it to be something that has least risks and generally safe. so does kratom fit the bill?

i hate all the usual suspects such as alcohol or weed.

Yes, it fits the bill. You seem to understand the primary issue with productivity drugs and professional life. When you use it daily and then run out, professional life will suffer. You need to consider this. make sure you have a good supply chain. I am currently seeking a cheaper supplier because the cost is starting to get ridiculous. Nonetheless, until I find a replacement, I have a steady steam from my current vendor. I take this stuff every morning before work and every evening before the gym. Usually a dose in between those as well.

I was a stim freak. Love just about all of them. I have been off stims for two years. Kratom fills the little void. Great stuff really. I mean, it's not amphetamine good but, it fills that void . . . just enough to avoid intense desire to put shit up my nose.

KyleOpium
02-08-2014, 06:25
Yep, I have a serious love affair with kratom. First started using it when I had to quit weed, due to some psychotic/paranoid symptoms starting to show themselves (Guess that the price for being a daily smoker from ages 14-22 huh?). It really helped quitting weed be almost painless, whereas before I found kratom I couldn't go more than 3-4 hours without smoking. I am also a former pharm opiate addict (oxycodone, and dillies). Kratom fills the void. Every time I've run out of kratom for a few days, I end up eating roxy 15 like they're candy, and when I get the kratom in the mail, it takes any withdrawal away, thus starting the love affair again. I've also never gotten any withdrawal from quitting kratom, but then again I only use 4-5 grams, 3 times a day. I've seen people using crazy doses of 20 grams at once. I don't think I could handle that without getting too dizzy.

tunesey
02-08-2014, 14:03
I have tried lots of different strains of Kratom and it never does fuck all to me never had a Kratom buzz just made a tea out of 15g of 20x extract noting but a bit of relaxation

whiteroom67
02-08-2014, 20:40
I have tried lots of different strains of Kratom and it never does fuck all to me never had a Kratom buzz just made a tea out of 15g of 20x extract noting but a bit of relaxation

Maybe you're one of those that has a naturally high tolerance to its effects. Also, I've noticed that with both Kratom and opiates (moreso with opiates), if I've had a long break, it can take 2 or 3 days of usage to start getting more euphoria from it. Of course getting into that habit isn't really a good thing to do anyway. Sometimes I've gotten great euphoria from Kratom, and other times it would just be a mild relaxation like you said, even same strain from same vendor. So it can vary.

drewbocop
02-08-2014, 20:43
lol, my post got deleted concerning some of the noobs. Oh well. As for kratom doing fuck all for the guy above, I've seen that among a few of my friends with no opiate tolerance. Doesn't even make them sick or anything. I guess YMMV applies.

Mycophile
02-08-2014, 21:27
I still find Kratom to be SO temperamental.

Too much and I won't get a good high.

I think I partially fucked my high today by taking 2 tspns because one of them was white maeng da and that stuff is more dense than the other strains I have so I think I consumed more than I would normally on tpspns of other strains even though 2tspns is usually a good dosage for me.

I guess getting a better scale would be good but USUALLY I get the dosage right these days. The last scale I bought was completely useless so I don't really feel like spending more on a scale now which might be equally worthless.

I'm still feeling it, but the euphoria isn't what it should be and I know that what euphoria I do have would go away entirely if I took more so I just have to wait and hopefully more of the euphoria comes back.

I feel like Kratom is the "PMsing temperamental chick of the drug world" lol...

banana king 84
02-08-2014, 23:28
Agreed with above poster. For me, kratom only works on an empty stomach, and only last 2 hrs or so. I take 10 grams, & can tell no difference between green or red vein, but only in the quality of the kratom itself. July 3, 2014, I had 10 grams Mitra Red Borneo, on an empty stomach, at 8:15 pm, at a Jazz Fest. I pre-mixed it with grapefruit juice at home so I could drink it openly. By 8:45 I felt some warmness and activity in my head, altered perception, more happy and energized as I enjoyed the atmosphere. I finally ate a philly at 9, & the feeling was gone by 10:15, when we left. Around 9:30 I felt tired and for 5 minutes almost nodded, but then was wide awake again. Also find it hard to dose high enough to feel a buzz without getting sweaty & nauseous. I've thrown up before off it, after driving a few miles, and also feel very anxious & impatient on it, a red light seems to last an annoyingly long time, & every little line you queue in makes me antsy. I am opiate naive also, I was worried kratom would be more like an opiate & make me content (and more likely to get addicted to it) instead of the stimulant properties which are more prominent.

《Plasticity》
03-08-2014, 00:54
Myco don't forget that each strain has it's own alkaloid profile, this is very important if you can't seem to find your sweet spot. From experience WVMD is one of the more potent strains so 2 tsp of that isn't gonna be equipotent to say, 2 tsp of your average run of the mill bali. Even if a vendor has it's mitragynine percentage listed there's still 20+ alkaloids unaccounted for and believe it or not, not every strain even contains any 7-OH Mitragynine at all. Sekio did some testing on a few strains and iirc none even contained 7-OH Mitragynine. Also, some strains just seem to have a higher ratio of dirty/gross alkaloids to opioid alkaloids which makes finding your sweetspot near impossible. Certain strains were guaranteed to give me eye wiggles and jelly legs before any remarkable euphoria, green malaysian was a repeat offender.

HdoubleODeezy
03-08-2014, 01:13
I'm having eye wiggles right now from red vein bali.. took 5g this morning another at noon and just now again.. was talking to someone and the damn eye wiggles started a few min ago now cant look at anything without it happening in my peripheral vision.
I hate this strain.
I have some more red vein coming in along with the same amount of green vein.. think ill mix the 2 in equal proportions and see what i get.
IIRC the cheap stuff (PC/Bali) is a mix of all vein colors thrown together.
I actually prefer that to what I have now.. hoping mixing the 2 when it arrives will result in something like regular PC/Bali.

-HOOD


EDIT: opinions on what im planning on doing? any better ratio than 50/50?

Mycophile
03-08-2014, 01:16
Myco don't forget that each strain has it's own alkaloid profile, this is very important if you can't seem to find your sweet spot. From experience WVMD is one of the more potent strains so 2 tsp of that isn't gonna be equipotent to say, 2 tsp of your average run of the mill bali. Even if a vendor has it's mitragynine percentage listed there's still 20+ alkaloids unaccounted for and believe it or not, not every strain even contains any 7-OH Mitragynine at all. Sekio did some testing on a few strains and iirc none even contained 7-OH Mitragynine. Also, some strains just seem to have a higher ratio of dirty/gross alkaloids to opioid alkaloids which makes finding your sweetspot near impossible. Certain strains were guaranteed to give me eye wiggles and jelly legs before any remarkable euphoria, green malaysian was a repeat offender.

I didn't realize that WVMD is more potent than others.

That's interesting because so far it's my least favorite strain I've tried and maybe that is why...because perhaps I usually take too much of it but also...it's EXTREMELY dense unlike bali, RVB, GVB or GM.

All those tend to be grainy and easy to get down but I always cough and choke a little on the WMD when trying to get it down cause it's SO damn thick and I'm wondering why?

Really though, I don't notice much of a difference between ANY of the strains I have tried to be honest.

I thought I really would notice the difference between them, but they all feel pretty much the same to me, equally likely to produce speedy effects and most of them don't give me as much sedation as I hope for either (not tired type sedation, but I'd like more of an Oxy/Hydro type effect that I don't get quite as much of as I would like always).

I remember Sekio giving the opinion that he didn't think that there really was much of a difference between white, green and red veins and that it was mostly psychological, and that when he ran tests on them there wasn't much difference in alkaloids between any of them but you seem to disagree from your experience huh??

What is a "dirty/gross alkaloid" anyway??

I'd assume a GOOD vendor would have good quality stuff most of the time right?

And what effects does 7-OH Mitragynine have?

I don't know anything about it or any of the alkaloids for that matter.

I also don't think I've ever gotten "eye wiggles" or "jelly legs"...could you describe them?? (I'd assume jelly legs is just weak wobbly legs?)

Anyways, I have found certain things to be consistent for me with Kratom in producing good results and that my learning curve has increased dramatically in terms of percentage of getting good effects, things like:

Don't take too much, especially no more than two teaspoons,
wait longer to take more if there's any question, especially more than 4 hours if you don't want to overdo it because I find that the alkaloids or whatever tend to stick around and have effects for a LOT longer than 4 hours sometimes which is what others have said is the standard length of the experience--

Don't overdo the caffeine on it...can make some of the euphoria go away if I take too much and/or cause hypertension

I also HAVE to take Kratom at least like 7-8 hours before bed to sleep, regardless of strain.

But it is still SO weird to me.

Kratom can have the good effects of: good mood, anxiety reduction, speedy ness (the good kind) and euphoria....but it can also have the negative effects of: too much sedation, too much speediness, hypertension and irritabiltiy.

At times I can be REALLY irritable on it....and then at others times the COMPLETE OPPOSITE of irritable.

Usually I think the irritation is caused by too much and/or too much caffeine with it.

But the good thing I have found is that unlike some other drugs that I have a psychological addiction to (not physical) like weed and alcohol, I don't have that problem so far (fingers crossed) with Kratom.

I dont' really crave doing it more than once or twice a week and have little trouble sticking to that.

It really ISN'T true the garbage that people say about "if you have an addictive personality it's that way with ALL drugs".

Some people just react differently to certain things and Kratom seems not to have a negative-drug seeking-effect on me.

HdoubleODeezy
03-08-2014, 01:28
About the caffeine thing Myco.. i find kratom works best (for me) if followed by a cup or 2 of coffee. Than again, that's not tons of caffeine.
Plus i drink a lot of caffeine daily anyways so maybe caffeine tolerance comes into play for me?

《Plasticity》
03-08-2014, 01:40
Are you sure it was sekio who told you that? Because his results show otherwise (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/721746-Kratom-analysis-for-fun-and-profit). I have no doubt that each strains have their own subtle differences, I didn't notice them much when first starting but as time went on I really started noticing differences. I mean there were always strains that I didn't tolerate, but I could grasp other subtle differences as one might notice from different cannabis strains, though I'm aware you said you can't tell those differences either.

I would agree that density is another factor as well, I too noticed differences in densities. Too much kratom = a shitty time regardless of the strain so if your dosing a potent strain that's also dense with a tsp measure that's kind of a double whammy. Others my disagree but as little as 1g makes or breaks a good experience for me so it pays off to have a scale even if 1 tsp dosing has a varience of .1-.3 per tsp, because that becomes a .2-.6 variency with both tsps. Just some things to keep in mind, I've gone for months, possibly even years without dosing too high or too little once I found out how to work with the handfull of strains I would cycle.

Mycophile
03-08-2014, 01:45
Are you sure it was sekio who told you that? Because his results show otherwise (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/threads/721746-Kratom-analysis-for-fun-and-profit). I have no doubt that each strains have their own subtle differences, I didn't notice them much when first starting but as time went on I really started noticing differences. I mean there were always strains that I didn't tolerate, but I could grasp other subtle differences as one might notice from different cannabis strains, though I'm aware you said you can't tell those differences either.

I would agree that density is another factor as well, I too noticed differences in densities. Too much kratom = a shitty time regardless of the strain so if your dosing a potent strain that's also dense with a tsp measure that's kind of a double whammy. Others my disagree but as little as 1g makes or breaks a good experience for me so it pays off to have a scale even if 1 tsp dosing has a varience of .1-.3 variancy per tsp, because that becomes a .2-.6 variancy with both tsps. Just some things to keep in mind, I've gone for months, possibly even years without dosing too high or too little once I found out how to work with the handfull of strains I would cycle.

Yeah, I remember for sure that Sekio was the one who had said that at one point, but I don't know, maybe he changed his mind.

Yeah, I feel the same way about taking just a little bit too much vs a the right amount being so specific, but I bought a scale and it just doesn't work and I don't really feel like buying another right now though sooner or later I probably will.

I still get good enough effects a lot of the time to feel I don't necessarily NEED to but it would probaby make a difference.

And I can tell the difference between different types of weed in terms of how some weed is better than others, slightly more relaxing maybe, and of course the taste but I have just never known if I was smoking Indica or Sativa.

Mycophile
03-08-2014, 01:49
About the caffeine thing Myco.. i find kratom works best (for me) if followed by a cup or 2 of coffee. Than again, that's not tons of caffeine.
Plus i drink a lot of caffeine daily anyways so maybe caffeine tolerance comes into play for me?

Yeah, I probably drink as much or more coffee than you cause I drink like 4-6 cups a day though I am trying to cut down.

I have also found that 2-3 cups of coffee or tea potentiates Kratom, but that more than that can ruin the experience.

But something I was wondering from Kratom users who are also coffee drinkers is: Do you feel it dramatically changes the experience from how it would be if you didn't have caffeine?

Like, sometimes I want more of an Oxy/Hydro type feel because usually I just get a super speedy Opioid effect but I can't usually get that kind of effect and was wondering if maybe I would if I didn't drink coffee?

I pretty much need caffeine though so I don't know if I could even experiment and enjoy the experience.

I also discovered that JUST the right amount of alcohol can have a great effect with Kratom, but not too much or I will just get drunk and forget I'm on Kratom at all.

The best Kratom experience I've had so far was when I drank a few cups of coffee with just the right amount of Kratom and then went to a brewery and had like 4-5 strong beers.

I had a great Kratom buzz, great beer buzz and caffeine buzz and they all worked together perfectly.

It felt a lot like the weed + alcohol combo but with much more mental clarity and absolutely no anxiety.

I also almost felt like I was getting more drunk in that I was stumbling a little bit when it would normal take 3 times that much alcohol to do that, and i got REALLY talkative with people I didn't know.

《Plasticity》
03-08-2014, 01:56
I know it might seem like a pita to buy a scale but I can't reccomend it enough that you do, at least if you continue to have problems dosing. You can get a cheap scale for 10$ on amazon. Just make sure you get the right scale for the occasion though, you don't want a mg scale or a scale that barely starts weight after dumping a whole gram. I believe the right scale would be a 0.01 scale? Somebody correct me if I'm wrong...


And I can tell the difference between different types of weed in terms of how some weed is better than others, slightly more relaxing maybe, and of course the taste but I have just never known if I was smoking Indica or Sativa.

Ah I see, my bad. Yeah with access to medicinal cannabis it becomes very easy to spot the differences between the two strains as well as certain hybrids as alot of dispensaries typically have the strains categorized as well as their CBD/THC ratios which makes it easy to draw correlations.

Mycophile
03-08-2014, 02:01
^^^^

Yeah, I'll eventually buy a scale but I'm doing ok for now.

And I remember when I went to Amsterdam it was also easier to tell the difference between some of their strains, but in blind taste tests (in other words, black market) it gets hard for me to tell anything other than "this weed is much better and tastes much better than that weed" lol.

《Plasticity》
03-08-2014, 02:16
Back to your other post, I consider the gross alkaloids the ones that cause the unpleasant effects not seen with typical mu agonists like oxycodone and hydrocodone. There's so many alkaloids that I don't know which ones by name (though I suspect the yohimbine-like alkaloids are to blame) are causing the side effects but they're definately there which is why some strains generally feel "cleaner" or with less side-effects and more euphoria. An eye wiggle is also known as nystagmus, you can look it up if your interested. Basically it's a rapid shaking of the eyeballs from left to right which causes an anoying inability to focus your eyesight, it's quite common high doses. The more stimulating green veins as well as poor quality bali are notorious for causing this side effect according to anecdote. Bali also tends to have a higher probability for nausea, which I'm not sure I agree with.

"Jelly legs" is what I essentialy call weak, shaky legs (tremors), this feeling tends to be accompanied by nausea and weakness...not very fun at all. 7-OH Mitragynine is the most potent opioid alkaloid in the kratom leaf. More 7-OH Mitragynine, more opiate like clean euphoria. Though I'm honestly not entirely too sure how much of a contribution this alkaloid plays because I know neither the average percentage by weight this alkaloid is found nor have I eaten pure 7-OH M to make a comparison.


It really ISN'T true the garbage that people say about "if you have an addictive personality it's that way with ALL drugs".

Some people just react differently to certain things and Kratom seems not to have a negative-drug seeking-effect on me.

Definately, nobody is sentenced to addiction before trying a drug lol.
---
Oh and you can usually tell the diference between indica and sativa by the structure and smell of the bud, though it's not always 100% accurate and things get trick when dealing with hybrids. For the most part indicas are usually really dense, sticky buds with lots of resin/trichomes/crystals...whatever as well as thick smoke and a very pungeant scent. Sativas tend to be more "loose" in their form (less dense) and tend to smell more like pine or other earthy type scents, and produce a distinct cerbral, heady high. I'd take a picture to show comparison but I don't have any sativa. Anyways the average user also can't tell the difference so it's nothing too extreme.

ThePredecessor
03-08-2014, 03:49
What is the best strain in anyones opinion for a sedative buzz similar to an opiate?
I've heard Bali was the best for this but I would like other opinions.. THANKS !!

FlawedByDesign
03-08-2014, 08:06
^Bali hands down imho. Red Papua Reserve is also good but doesn't hold a candle to high quality bali.