I want you to look in the future and see if you see this.....

Whats up all. I used to post on this board awhile ago, back when it used to be www.bluelight.net/mdma and Dr.whats his name was around. Anyway i think its all great that yiou all are such a wondeful human beings that find some time away from your drugz to come her and share your expiriences. Now its all great and you probably feel very educated and all, and doing ecstacy all of a sudden is not that dangerous any more, because you all smart , right. So you all know that you are taking a risk by doing any kind of drug , right. But theres nothing wrong with taking risk, If you don't risk you don't win (get high). Well we all watched all these MTV specials and all kinds of shit on TV about ecstacy, probbaly read trough whole Dancesafe.org , and by now probably big experts .hmmm..? aha.
Well here are some facts, just to brighten your next trip. MOst of it comes from a first hand expirience, not from some educational program or website.
Just one pill alters the way your brain manages the seratonin you are developing. Ok sorry going into scince ...heres more simple, seratonin is the substance that your brain uses when you are depressed or upset to keep you in balance, If your axons in your brain are damaged from XTC use, then Uh-OH next time you are stressed out , say Hello to panic attacks. All of a sudden you stop taking sleep for granted. And all you think about is how you afraid that you will go insane, because you are constantly freaking out of all kind of shit. So you think ok, I'll stop doing X, and my body will just recover. Well it takes your body like 3 weeks to recover from flu, about a month to heal a broken bone, the brain cells and axons can recover for years, and guess what body,most of the time they don't recover the same way you were born with them. So your personality dramatically changes. Its getting harder and harder going to sleep and waking up with yourself everyday. You try to get away from everyone, because you develop Anixiety, but how can you getaway when you have frinds and family and college and work.....how do you live if you don't find peace within yourslef when you are feeling like you loosing your mind, and constantly have to go psychatrist just to get you trough some weeks. So you try to seek addiitional help on the internet, feeling that your future is fading away because you have mental problems and you are only 21 and have a whole life to live...so one day you just remmeber how you always thought that XTC was just a light drug that gave you an unbelievable feeling, not somehtin gthat would give you a psychosis disorder only after 2 years of use. well maybe you even find yourself posting a messege like this on some messegeboard.....or will you,,>????

I'm just hoping that everyone doesn't just flame this troll and handles this reasonably and responsibly. I'm not about to lower myself to give him the reaction he wants. You guys, please respond in a calm and informed manner. Credibility is earned and flaming is far from credible. I, on the other hand, do not have the energy to "proceed with caution," but here goes. Cheers!
[This message has been edited by gmni13 (edited 14 December 2000).]

I think it's unfortunate that many people may indeed end up in the situation you've described. However, such a sweeping generalization does not leave you with much credibility. You've made many statements on neurological effects with little, if anything to back it up.
Many of the people on this board are in school, have educated themselves as to the effects of drugs (beyond just MDMA) and have made a decision. Granted there are many who have decided on whims and flow with the majority.
But please, don't assume everyone on this board is uneducated and naive. This is a harm reduction site and has helped many people that have come for knowledge on something they've decided to pursue regardless of anything here. Myself, included. Not only has it helped me, but I've been able to help many people that have gone "over the edge." Just something to think about.
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Erik
[This message has been edited by gmni13 (edited 18 December 2000).]

yeah all this troll wants is just some reaction, you completely understood the messege in my post. you see, I am the X generation graduate, and I ve been trough all of the stages that you are might be going trough . i was here on this board defending XTC's good name like you are right now, so heres a flag for you my friend, i'm not even warning you in that messege I am just asking you if you would know that you are facing a serious danger in the future, that will catch up to you sooner or later. Nothing in this world is a free ride man, Don't expect to have fun with your health and somehow not to pay for it, So anyway i was saying that if you knew that you will have to pay for it and regret it later on , like i did would you rather find out for yourlsef, or learn from someone elses mistake..??

A lot of people on this board are extremely intelligent and well-educated - many are in college majoring in the sciences. I, myself, am a pre-med student - so please try not to be so patronizing by using that condescending tone.
Thank you and have a nice day.
*Pixie*

I don't deny that ecstasy has harmful effects. Moderation, preloading, postloading are ways of attempting to reduce harmful effects. However, just as drinking can lead to alcoholism, any drug (not just XTC) can have dire consequences. Weighing positives and negatives are a part of life. I, for instance, have chosen to use. I don't feel I will continue to use ecstasty in the future, just as I have used other drugs in the past that I no longer wish to use...and haven't since. I honestly feel that what I have gained so far will outweigh almost any negative that will be associated with my useage. I am prepared to deal with the consequences.
As far as defending XTC's "good name," I couldn't be more opposed. I don't feel that drugs are appropriate for everyone. Addiction is evident of that. My decision is solely mine and I will only take responsibility for my actions.
[This message has been edited by gmni13 (edited 14 December 2000).]

Okay, perhaps I read that post in a negative frame of mind and that's why I may have wrongly sensed a condescending tone of voice.
Thank you for your warnings, really. You do have to realize, however, that many people on this board have done their research. They know that while studies of the effects of ecstasy are still inconclusive, they have shown altered growth in the brain's axons and neural network. I know this - many others know this. Yet you still have to respect our right to make our own decisions and trust that we make those decisions in an informed manner.
I'm sure others will have more to say regarding this thread, so I'm going to let them cover points I may have missed.
In the meantime, welcome to Bluelight. Stick around, you may surprise yourself and learn a few things in the process.
*Pixie*

Find out for myself. Everyone's different, there are a lot of so-called "ecstasy graduates" who don't have these problems. How do I know this? The same type of anecdotal evidence you've given for why you have. Like I said, the only way to truly know myself - who I am - is to find out for myself. Yes its a risk, but I think that if chemical imbalances catch up to me, at least I'll know they're just chemical imbalances. Call me a fool who knows nothing about depression, but I think knowing that fact is a great help for someone with the kind of rational mind I have in that kind of situation. Does that satisfy you? I think that's the only positive answer you could hope to get with the kind of loaded question.
- Citrus

Pixie maybe i did come on as an asshole in the first post but i wanted to sound sarcastic out of a reason. And trust me being educated didn't help me to do the right thing. The science is still clueless about long term effects of XTC. Only right now the goverment is issuing a huge load of money from the budget to research XTC, since the marijuana use is down and e became so popular. So hows being educated is making you safe. Each and every person has a diffferent reaction to drugs. But XTC in particular has one similar effect for everyone. And its that bad for you..mentally...Once again i don't try to come here and say okay everyonemust stop , because i found out something new. YOu all know this. Mr and Mrs educated people. You are just making excuses for yourselves. Like doing it once a month won't affect me. and you know what some of you it won't, but others............and thats the thing you don't know if it will be you who's going to turn nutcase in a few years or the next guy....does it worht to find out..??

Ok, I'll have to agree with Pixie here. I might have misunderstood. Though I do see condescending tone in:

Anyway i think its all great that yiou all are such a wondeful human beings that find some time away from your drugz to come her and share your expiriences. Now its all great and you probably feel very educated and all, and doing ecstacy all of a sudden is not that dangerous any more, because you all smart , right.

Click to expand...

And I don't see this as anything but condescending either:

So you try to seek addiitional help on the internet, feeling that your future is fading away because you have mental problems and you are only 21 and have a whole life to live...so one day you just remmeber how you always thought that XTC was just a light drug that gave you an unbelievable feeling, not somehtin gthat would give you a psychosis disorder only after 2 years of use. well maybe you even find yourself posting a messege like this on some messegeboard

Click to expand...

Maybe I'm wrong. Please, elaborate. I'd like to know. The only thing that bothers me more than anything about your post is the following:

But theres nothing wrong with taking risk, If you don't risk you don't win (get high)

Click to expand...

You have the understanding that it's all about a high. There are numerous threads on this board that will only show you that doing any mind altering substance is not about getting fucked up. That's where many people get into problems. Relying on alcohol to numb themselves, anything to push the "bad" thing to the back of their heads. Sure, there are many people who do that. Hell, even I'm guilt of it myself. I just think that you (not specifically "you," people in general) need to sit back sometimes and reevaluate your motives.

gmni13
Man what i said about risk is something that we have to take all our lives in all kinds of different shit. And the higher the risk the better the reward, ever taking financing.?
but risk is only good when its worth it. And getting high isn't worth risking your life.
See I repeatedly ddin't wanan give up on E.
Even after first visit to emergency room.
I gave myself sometime. moderation is the key right. Second visit was much worse. I was just praying GOD man. They gave me Xanax I was screaming and yelling for help because my whole buddy was like electrified...and the funny thing is i knew it was all in my mind, but i was helpless to calmmyself down. I don't want anyone to go trough the shit i ve been trough that day. I mean my parents found out. whatever...i just want you guys to know that its not something impossible. it can happen. What i just described happen to me after i took only like 3 pills in a 2 hour period of time ...i think,,,,.....

Dance2tranz.......you make some very valid points.....and I will take them onboard.
However, you also contradict......you say that science is clueless about the long term effects of MDMA use (which is very very true).....yet you then go on to say that the effects are bad for everyone. If science is clueless.....THEN HOW DO YOU KNOW THE LONG TERM EFFECTS FOR EVERYBODY.
Obviously you have gone through some "bad shit" (for want of a better way to describe it) as a result of taking ecstasy and that is most unfortunate. However, to say that all will suffer a similar fate is somewhat naive. I first tried ecstasy some 12 years ago (at age 15) and have continued to take it spiradically since. I suffer absolutely NO mental problems and feel very in control of my brain, body and life. Now, using your logic, I should post a thread telling everyone to go beserk on MDMA and have a good time coz it absolutely will not harm your mental state....My point being, that whilst you raise some very relevant issues for ecstasy users, you must realise that every single one of those users is completely unique. What has become of you will most definately NOT happen to us all.
As users of ecstasy, we all take a HUGE risk in regards to our health.......and I totally agree that there are many among us that think that, by reading up a bit on the known effects and posting relevant material on these sites, they know all there is to know and feel a false sense of security about taking the drug. But I think that you'll find that there are just as many users here (like myself) that are aware of the dangers and are simply PREPARED TO TAKE THAT RISK. We use this site to make our journey as safe as we possibly can by sharing information about MDMA. For your contribution to my journey, I thank you and wish you a speedy recovery......your warnings are heeded by me (and hopefully many others).
Until next time........good luck and remember, addressing others in an 'I know coz it happend to me, you're all dummies' kind of way will only detract from what you are trying to get across.
T
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"Drugs work"

dance2tranz- i totally agree with everything you're saying. i only used e for a year and a few months, usually every weekend or every other weekend. i too, thought it was the greatest thing ever invented. it opened my mind, it helped me connect to other people and the world. i generally became a happier person because of it......for the first few months.
then the depression hit me. at first it was only for a few days after i dosed. then it became the whole week- which didn't matter cuz i would just dose again on the weekend. that made me feel better temporarily. then i started to suffer from panic attacks. i couldn't sleep because i feared that i'd fucked up my brain so much that i would die in my sleep. i felt guilty about what i was doing to myself. how could i cause my brain and my body so much harm just to get high?? nothing is worth that.
it got really out of control. if did manage to get to sleep i would wake up constantly to make sure i was still breathing. all day i thought about the drugs and what they'd done to me. one night i had to go to the hospital because of a major panic attack that i beleived was a heart attack. but even that didn't stop me. it wasn't til recently that i just broke down completely and went to the doctor for help. he gave me anti-depressants to level out the chemicals in my brain that i had fucked up so badly....this was a wake up call. if i want to live a normal life- i have to stop doing this to myself. so i stopped.
i'm not feeding you any textbook bullshit. this is what happened to me. and when i started using i never thought something bad would happen because of e-the perfect drug, but it did. DO NOT fool yourselves. when you do drugs- there are consequences. its frustrating to come on here and see countless posts about the wonders of e and how safe it is. you guys are heading down a dangerous path......yes, its your choice, and if you're prepared for the consequences, then i guess its your life.....
i realize i'll get flamed for this, but just consider it a warning from someone who was in the EXACT same boat as you a few months ago.

Mommy
I'm sorry you can relate to this scary topic, but i thank you for speaking out with your expirience which supports my point that even though drugs have different effect on everyone, XTC in particular fucks with you mentally in very similar way for everyone, once you step over the line. What you described in your post is ABSOLUTELY the same thing that was happeng to me with maybe a few differences. When i had a panic attack i thought that i was having a heart attack and i kept chekcing my pulse every minute trying myself to come down, but then when it got hard to breath i had to call paramedics. And even though i was so sure that i took some bad pills or some strong pills that I overdosed on, it was just a very severe panic attack fucking with my brains, making me feel like i'm going to die and be so helpless about it. But don't think that panic attacks only happen when you use E. If you constantly use it , like every week, and one day you don't get full 7-8 hours of sleep, then expect the same. You freak out from the little things. YOu hurt your back a little and you think if drugz had anyting to do with that , and if you are going to die from that. The paranoia is always with you. Same thing about beign afraid to stop breathing in the sleep. I can't believe you mentioned this detail. I waas afraid after panic attacks to go to sleep because i was afraid that my body would just "forget" to breath. and once i fall asleep it would feel like i'm spinning or falling and i would wake up. Ahhhh... i think i'm typing too much negativity here....all i'm saying is that when 2 years ago i was on this board, there were just happy ravers here telling everyone to take this pill in the first hour , than shove couple up the ass to have a good time, basicly i never read about any negative expiriences, well almost. i hope noone thinks that i'm some old fart trying to get evryone to stop having a good time, and that i get like some $$$ from the crime-dog for sitting here and posting this. I'm a 21 yerold NYC college student ., enjoing the same kind of music you all have come together once for in a rave or in the club. i hope it was muzik......
Peace*

How refreshing to see a serious pro/anti debate that *hasn't* degenerated into a flame war.
This should be put in the Bluelight archives for future reference.

Mommy - I am sorry to hear about your experiences - I went through something similar. However, you are wrong to generalise from your experience and assume that everyone here is going down the same path. Bottom line - you used too much, too often (I don't mean that in a judgemental way - I did the same things that you did). Those who take E every week are setting themselves up for deprssion and anxiety - but the whole point of this site is to educate people about responsible usage - once a month or less, with appropriate postloading. You can't assume that occaisional use of E will have the same effects as frequent use.
Si

"...and we all think we are in perfect control of our own drug use, it's just the "others" that get out of control........"
dance2trance:
Your post should certainly not be flamed, you describe the reality of your own long term ecstasy use. There is no need for any scientific proof of your subjective personal experiences.
And to all of you so very well educated peeps out there referring to the lack of evidences in any user report or reference, and you also being well read on the subject from sites on the internet - or through your own (ofthen relatively limited) experience: I am quite well educated too, have 33 years of life experience, 15 yrs of drug experience (not 15 years of continous use of course but in varying intensity through the years). I consider myself to have a good menthal health (so far), I have a nice well paid job, house, car etc, and I know the theories of my drugs too. I have just comed a little further down the road of ecstasy than many on this board. Maybe not quite as far as dance2trancz and Mommy but not too far away either I'm afraid.
I have slowly converted in my views on ecstasy since I first started using it about two years ago. For the most I have experienced very few negative side effects but I can see the downsides coming more ofthen now. At first there were a couple of days of total bliss after a roll then life went back to good ol'normal. Slowly that changed through time. Now there is ofthen one day of anxiety, one of depression and a few more of mild depression before everyday life gradually gets back to something I *guess* is back to normal. I can certainly familiarise with dance2tranz and Mommy's genuine and sober descriptions of how long term use has affected them. I'm afraid my days on ecstasy are numbered (gawds, I love the stuff!) - If I can't prove to myself that I can manage to limit my use considerably I'll just have to call it quits - forever.
So what I guess I am trying to say is that I think it is wrong that when people come here to this board seeking approval for their drug use through positive user reports most of the people answering their posts are users with relatively short drug- and life experience. And these users' words are conveniently taken as the ultimate truth on ecstasy use (why not, they endorse use of this delicious drug!). And then, when disillutioned long term users do a post on the shitty downsides of long term ecstasy use they ofthen get flamed and lectured by those still in the bliss of their first 30 rolls...
How many on this board have been doing ecstasy for more than six months?? Wow about 12 months or 24 months? I would love to hear the opinion of users having been doing ecstasy on a regular basis for at least two years. And I do not mean four times a year for two years - users like that are in my opinion rare cases. We might like to look at ourselves as such a user but most of us are not - most of us can't help but rolling more and more ofthen, I have seen it in real life over and over again. Occational use very ofthen becomes frequent after some time; and that is what this post was originally about, wasn't it? Anxiety and depression caused by frequent long term use?
..and the pre-/post loading issue? Well, we stuff our faces with loads of vitamins, herbs and drugs in a futile attempt to lessen the damages to our brains! Is it not damaging to do doses of vitamins or herbs that are houndreds or even thousands of times stronger than recommended in modern medicine as a daily dose for the human body?
So: Any Bluelighter with more than two years of frequent ecstasy use: What are your personal opinion as a user on the subject of anxiety and depression from long term use? How were your views on the subject the first year of use compared to now? .....and when did your use change from occational to frequent?
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love, pash
E forEver

If you are a person who:
-has free will
-makes educated decisions
-are WILLING to ACCEPT the CONSEQUENCES
Then your probably not going to post a message like that. Nuff said
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
lifeispeachy

I'm from the UK where E has been around for a lot longer on a big scale than in the USA. People there have been taking pills for 12 years or so (first big summer was 1988). I've been taking them for just over ten years. When I first started taking it I knew that it was a powerful chemical which had to be treated with respect. I still have the same opinion. I haven't been taking E every week for those 10 years, there have been very few occasions when I took pills two weekends in a row and some gaps of four or five months. I honestly don't believe it has had any lasting effect on my mind. Sure it does give some grim Tuesdays but I don't see any significant long lasting effects (I mean differences between when I take it twice a month and when I have a five month break).
One of the few things that I find annoying about Bluelight is some of the posters occasionally forget that there is a small island off the coast of America called "the rest of the world". Just because E and E culture only washed up back on the shores of the USA a couple of years ago doesn't mean that it is completely new! It really does show a staggering amount of ignorance to say things like "I heard the British had some parties but they couldn't be called raves" (Thread: "Where did raves originate?") or "What will you be like after a few years if you take E now?!!"
People have been taking E by the millions for more than a decade and people have been taking E since the 60's (first recorded human ingestion then, US army chemical warfare research!). If E really did make people completely lose their minds as a matter of course we would know about it! E is not good for you but it won't automatically make your brain leak down your legs. Absolutely the best way to get E to damage you is to take it too often/much. Moderation has worked very well for me over the last decade, I thoroughly recommend it to all of you.
Harry

pisces_prnces: Child! Go fuck yourself with your priggish meaningless post!!
Harry@Piekarnia: I think I could love you! Thank you!
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love, pash
E forEver