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Hammilton
24-03-2014, 23:35
For those of you who are aware, ultra enhanced indo, the king of kratom extracts, is not truly an extract in the normal sense. All evidence points to it being a semi-synthetic analogue of mitragynine, a mitragynine extract that's been coverted to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl or a close analogue, approximately 30x stronger than morphine, that's probably blended in with micronized Bali powder (I assume Bali because it's cheap, and basically inert at the doses used.

I decided to quit suboxone and switch to kratom maintenance the start of January, though through December I toyed with the ability of kratom to block withdrawal. Not perfect, but damn good. I've since stabilized on about 12-14g / day, a 3-4g dose in the morning or early afternoon, then 8 or 9 before bed. Works good.

I decided I wanted to try genuine UEI so I ordered some from the only vendor I could be positive of. I wanted to see if it would produce the dreams that real opioids do, but kratom doesn't.

Last dose of kratom was 8.45g at 330am, it's now 1230pm. I measure out exactly 500mg mix with a little applesauce and swallow on an otherwise empty stomach. Ten minutes later I decide that I've under dosed and add another 330mg in the same manner.

By 1pm I'm feeling the effects, they remind me very much of oxy. I'm clear headed and happy. Make a few phone calls and chat longer than normal. This feels exactly like an opiate, there's no question. I usually notice a strong opioid effect for an hour which fades to a kratom-effect that feels stoning and somewhat dizzy. That doesn't happen here, the opioid effects remain the most prominent and euphoria is certainly present.

At 2pm the effects have noticeably declined but are still present.

At 2:50p I'm not feeling much so I take another 700mg.

2:55 the effects of my booster have already made themselves known. I'm feeling itchy and warm. There is slight stomach discomfort as the drug kicks in, but I had been sick yesterday and I suspect it's related to that and to not having eaten in about 18 hours.

Often when I get high on opioids I find myself wanting to lie down and feel the euphoria running through my body, but I'm stimulated and not really wanting to when there's other things to do. Eventually I force myself to, and it feels good, but I find that I'm stimulated to really nod off at all. I have the same problem with oxy, though, and this stimulation does not feel remotely adrenegic like Green Vein Thai or Maeng Da can, both kratom varieties I consider closer to coffee than to premium commercial Bali.

It's now 5:30pm and the effects are slowly wearing off. I'll try a whole gram at bedtime tonight and add a mini report to this then, but then I plan on going back to premium commercial Bali for a few days to prevent tolerance. While I'm working as much as I am I'll stick to Maeng Da or GV Malay or GVT for my daytime dose and PCB or RVT for bedtime and take the UEI for my nighttime dose on days I'm not working. It's too expensive to consume daily and I don't want my tolerance going through the roof. I can easily see how someone with the resources and time could turn this into a huge habit. I don't find that kratom itself is addicting or euphoric, but it's a good maintenance plant. UEI is an impressive product that deserves real respect, it is every bit as good as any opioid I've tried by the oral route.

《Plasticity》
25-03-2014, 00:12
Nice TR, I'm confused though... Is ssUEI just the original UEI? You mention that this was ssUEI in the kratom thread but here it just says UEI, so I'm curious to know if ssUEI is an improved or more potent version of the original. Also, I'm assuming since you took it in the day you weren't able to achieve the dream state you've been after?

Xorkoth
25-03-2014, 01:00
Thanks for sharing, interesting, I didn't realize that a synthetic analogue of mitragynine was available.

Just so you know, plain kratom does have its own pretty nasty withdrawal, when you use it a lot. I used to use it 4-6 times a day for years straight and in some ways it's the worst opioid withdrawal that I have experienced to me. Namely because of the emotional instability, and most of all the restlessness. All opioid withdrawals produce restless legs syndrome, but kratom is so bad that I even get restless arms in addition to the legs. Absolutely maddening.

blight12
25-03-2014, 01:11
How does this compare to gold reserve?

Hammilton
25-03-2014, 05:39
How does this compare to gold reserve?

They're apples and oranges. Gold Reserve is simply a very strong kratom extract. It's good for what it is. UEI, on the other hand is chemically altered, the mitragynine converted to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl or a relative of it. UEI is a real opioid feeling, it doesn't have the queasy, hang overy feeling of kratom when it wears off. It just feels like any other opioid, though closer to oxy in my opinion, more stimulating, not a yohimbine type of simulation, but a euphoric opioid stimulation.

blight12
25-03-2014, 06:06
Is there only one vendor and source for this? If i find this on multiple sites will it all be legit product from the same manufacturer or are some vendors using this name for their own or other versions? Should i simply search for ssUEI vendors?

Hammilton
25-03-2014, 06:46
SS refers to the supplier of the real deal. There aremany companies selling what they call uei bbut many are not actually uei, which is made by one person. I know there are other legitimate dealers of it, but I dunno which are and which aren't.

Hammilton
25-03-2014, 07:06
I'll be taking my bedtime dose in about forty minutes. Usually take it right before I leave work for the night so it's kicking in right about the time I pull in the driveway. Measured out 1.13g, was going for 1g even but a little extra spilled out.

I'll give the oxindole enhanced stuff a try the next time I have a day off

doppelgänger
25-03-2014, 23:23
All evidence points to it being a semi-synthetic analogue of mitragynine, a mitragynine extract that's been coverted to mitragynine pseudoindoxyl or a close analogue
I don't see a single evidence :?

Hammilton
26-03-2014, 03:42
You haven't looked very hard then. Look at the testing

《Plasticity》
26-03-2014, 04:39
SS refers to the supplier of the real deal. There aremany companies selling what they call uei bbut many are not actually uei, which is made by one person. I know there are other legitimate dealers of it, but I dunno which are and which aren't.
Oh, in that case then I've had ssUEI many times.


I don't see a single evidence :?
It's true, there's a bit of discussion in the kratom thread if your interested, a google search should also bring up related discussion. While we don't know for sure its oxindole it's a very likely candidate. These potent extracts are not just kratom alkaloids. Amanitadine has even ran testing on FST and it contained no mitragynine, only a related analog.

Mr. Mayor
26-03-2014, 15:29
it doesn't have the queasy, hang overy feeling of kratom when it wears off.

Put me down for 10grams of that stuff!! No stomach pains? After about the 2 hour mark the blanket comes off and leaves me very cracked out feeling >.<

But forreal I've just been taking green bali for a few months now.

The Struggle Is Real.

Hammilton
26-03-2014, 22:34
That's a couple days worth... Lol.

I find that I need 2g per dose.

PsychedelicHaze
27-03-2014, 04:41
Hey captainkratom. Didn't you chat with me and mention that thr synthetic stuff is bad and easy to over dose on?

And after the high wears off regular kratom you feel like total crap?

《Plasticity》
27-03-2014, 04:54
Nope, you must be thinking of someone else. When the high wears off I go back to normal, no comedown at all. It can be easy to OD on this stuff though, especially FST since the amount of alkaloids in that tiny little bottle is quite a bit, I would imagine 2 vials full would be more than enough to put someone to rest... for good. The synthetics ARE bad for tolerance and withdrawals though, healh wise I doubt it. They also cost alot of money which is why I stick to plain leaf. I have a bad memory sometimes so maybe I did chat with you (although I doubt it), I definately wouldn't say these extracts cause any nasty comedown though, I've never had a bad comedown from any opiate/opioid/pseudo-opioid...

PsychedelicHaze
27-03-2014, 06:29
Nope, you must be thinking of someone else. When the high wears off I go back to normal, no comedown at all. It can be easy to OD on this stuff though, especially FST since the amount of alkaloids in that tiny little bottle is quite a bit, I would imagine 2 vials full would be more than enough to put someone to rest... for good. The synthetics ARE bad for tolerance and withdrawals though, healh wise I doubt it. They also cost alot of money which is why I stick to plain leaf. I have a bad memory sometimes so maybe I did chat with you (although I doubt it), I definately wouldn't say these extracts cause any nasty comedown though, I've never had a bad comedown from any opiate/opioid/pseudo-opioid...

I believe the chat started in the kratom thread. The adulterant topic came up as well as vendors. Emailed you about the vendors and you recommended me a couple and how MuSy talks about being careful with the ones that send synthetic alkaloids.

as for the other question in my post I was referring to mr.mayor saying how he felt crappy and cracked out after kratom wore off.

《Plasticity》
27-03-2014, 06:39
Ah yeah, that rings a bell. I was thrown off by the comedown comment as that doesn't sound like something I would say. Also, you wouldn't believe how many people PM me about kratom, almost daily... I guess it's my name that brings attention to new users. Some vendors "enhance" plain leaf with synthetics as well if i'm not mistaken but typically at an extra cost, I don't think you have to worry about getting an adulterated batch when ordering plain leaf, it doesn't seem cost effective for the vendor.

I think the real risks come from super potent adulterated concentrates, misinformation, and having low tolerance. To any new user I always reccomend staying away from extracts, I would imagine the withdrawals from UEI would easily be comparable to something like oxy and once you get used to these extracts plain leaf is ineffective. If you have good self-control then the occasional extract use won't hurt, just be responsible. So have you tried kratom yet? I'm assuming not since your asking about the comedown. I've never heard of people getting "cracked out" from kratom, maybe a bit jittery perhaps but mr.mayor's comment is kinda surprising.

PsychedelicHaze
27-03-2014, 06:50
Ah yeah, that rings a bell. I was thrown off by the comedown comment as that doesn't sound like something I would say. Also, you wouldn't believe how many people PM me about kratom, almost daily... I guess it's my name that brings attention to new users. Some vendors "enhance" plain leaf with synthetics as well if i'm not mistaken but typically at an extra cost, I don't think you have to worry about getting an adulterated batch when ordering plain leaf, it doesn't seem cost effective for the vendor. I think the real risks come from super potent adulterated concentrates, misinformation, and having low tolerance To any new user I always reccomend staying away from extracts, I would imagine the withdrawals from UEI would easily be comparable to something like oxy and once you get used to these extracts plain leaf is ineffective. So have you tried kratom yet? I'm assuming not since your asking about the comedown. I've never heard of people getting "cracked out" from kratom, maybe a bit jittery perhaps but mr.mayor's comment is kinda surprising.
yeah I hear ya haha.

and no I have not yet tried it as you assumed. But def will go to the guys you recommended me.

yeah it would be a realllll big turn off if it made you feel strung out. I have done enough stims and gone through enough crashes to hate it now other than moderate doses once im a while.

thanks for the clarification.

《Plasticity》
27-03-2014, 06:52
Ironically I use kratom for stimulant empathogen comedowns (MDMA, MDA, x-APB yahta yahta). I also HATE stims with a passion.

PsychedelicHaze
27-03-2014, 07:10
Good to know!

Will use the sedating ones for mdma come downs if I have it on hand.

Did you ever combine phenibut with kratom? If so what were the results?

Xorkoth
27-03-2014, 07:28
Phenibut and kratom is a good combo for sure. I find that both phenibut and kratom mix well with most things.

PsychedelicHaze
27-03-2014, 09:18
Phenibut and kratom is a good combo for sure. I find that both phenibut and kratom mix well with most things.

What doses and what kind of kratom tend to yield best results?

Is it also more relaxing? Sedating? Euphoric? Or a mix?

Xorkoth
27-03-2014, 22:17
Well it doesn't really synergize, it's just that the effects of the two combine well, it's nice to feel both at once. The phenibut has its odd combination of stimulation and sedation and euphoria, while the kratom does its thing too... so if it's a sedating strain it will make it more sedating, and if it's an energizing strain it will make it more energizing.

《Plasticity》
27-03-2014, 22:26
^ Strange, I definately found they synergize, potentiate, and extemd the high but only when tolerance is low, otherwise they just compliment each other. Either way it's a good combo for sure, for me I find phenibut kinda stimulating for a gaba agonist but still retaining some sedation potential (usually at the tail end), same goes for baclofen, and when taken with kratom it really puts me in a clean, warm, zen state. The only downside is I will be guaranteed to sleep for a good 12 hours that night so I only take the combo on my days off work, ymmv. As if me and xork's varying experiences don't say that enough, phenibut is a strange drug though that's for sure.

PsychedelicHaze
28-03-2014, 05:02
I just took about 2g of phenibut and I have an air head feeling. when it kicked in it was kind of euphoric. still feeling bouts of it here and there but it's nothing amazing. in the beginning it felt like a light valium dose. defintely felt good then.

Hammilton
28-03-2014, 05:43
2.5g had me nodding hard, but there was definitely a hangover the next day.

Today I'm going to try combining about 1.8g with 4g RVT to see how that goes.

I've got some more uei coming but I'm gonna have to lay off, I don't want to ruin kratom for me with uei daily.

How long do you think I can go before my tolerance starts shooting up? I was kind of planning a bender this weekend with the incoming uei but I dunno if that's a good idea

cdin
28-03-2014, 10:34
seriously, if you want to retain the magic, don't do extracts more than once or twice a month. seriously. It's all downhill from there.

PsychedelicHaze
28-03-2014, 13:50
Well as time went on I got more and more fucked up from the phenibut. 5+ hours and still feeling really drunk but not drunk. It's not that pleasent though as it has like flu air head feeling with a minor headache.

I can't imagine taking 5+g of it at once. Especially those who took 17+g....

I'm not new to phenibut either. I took it years ago but at very small doses around 500-750mg...but that's wheb my brain was way more fresh and before my heavy benzo abuse. Felt great off those small doses.

Xorkoth
28-03-2014, 17:02
^^ You had too much phenibut. It's hard to dose right. If you do get it right the flu-like feeling doesn't happen and it feels wonderful. How much did you take? I used to take 1-1.5g. Now I usually take .5 to .75 because I get the bad effects easier, and I often can't get the good feeling very strongly anymore.

Ziggy stardust
28-03-2014, 17:18
My sweet spot is 1.5mg with Phenibut. I only take it once or twice a week. Anymore and it loses potency and causes me sleepless nights, if I don't take it.

《Plasticity》
28-03-2014, 17:21
2.5g had me nodding hard, but there was definitely a hangover the next day.

Today I'm going to try combining about 1.8g with 4g RVT to see how that goes.

I've got some more uei coming but I'm gonna have to lay off, I don't want to ruin kratom for me with uei daily.

How long do you think I can go before my tolerance starts shooting up? I was kind of planning a bender this weekend with the incoming uei but I dunno if that's a good idea

Cdin is right, The fact that your taking 2.5g means your tolerance is already somewhat jacked, don't go on that bender. Try a full dose of plain leaf today and see how much of a dent you already put in your tolerance, I wouldn't be surprised if it's close to innefective as far as any recreational effects. 3 days of extract use rendered plain leaf totally worthless for me but that may be that I'm now sensitive to tolerance kindling due to the fact that I constantly take breaks.


Well as time went on I got more and more fucked up from the phenibut. 5+ hours and still feeling really drunk but not drunk. It's not that pleasent though as it has like flu air head feeling with a minor headache.

I can't imagine taking 5+g of it at once. Especially those who took 17+g....

I'm not new to phenibut either. I took it years ago but at very small doses around 500-750mg...but that's wheb my brain was way more fresh and before my heavy benzo abuse. Felt great off those small doses.
Yeah you dosed too high, phenibut can be nice but you don't wanna chase a high with it. I find phenibut very subtle on it's own and dosing higher leaves you feeling like shit for HOURS. 2g leaves me nauseous the next day and kinda hungover, stick to ~1g and enjoy the subtleties that is phenibut. If you wanna get drunk drink alcohol, phenibut is just not meant for the type of buzz many seek. Also the people who take monstrous doses have tolerance, phenibut tolerance rises faster than any drug I know so daily users find themselves using up to 10+grams.

PsychedelicHaze
28-03-2014, 18:39
^^ You had too much phenibut. It's hard to dose right. If you do get it right the flu-like feeling doesn't happen and it feels wonderful. How much did you take? I used to take 1-1.5g. Now I usually take .5 to .75 because I get the bad effects easier, and I often can't get the good feeling very strongly anymore.
I had 2 grams and yeah I'm not gonna dose that high. Felt like a zombie.

PsychedelicHaze
28-03-2014, 18:40
Yeah you dosed too high, phenibut can be nice but you don't wanna chase a high with it. I find phenibut very subtle on it's own and dosing higher leaves you feeling like shit for HOURS. 2g leaves me nauseous the next day and kinda hungover, stick to ~1g and enjoy the subtleties that is phenibut. If you wanna get drunk drink alcohol, phenibut is just not meant for the type of buzz many seek. Also the people who take monstrous doses have tolerance, phenibut tolerance rises faster than any drug I know so daily users find themselves using up to 10+grams.
Thanks for the advice!

Xorkoth
28-03-2014, 19:18
Also if you find yourself getting much tolerance, stop for a while. Phenibut doesn't cause physical addiction right away but it will cause it and the withdrawal is wretched, horrible anxiety, really bad.

ebola?
28-03-2014, 20:15
Phenibut and kratom is a good combo for sure.

This combo sounds like it would be pretty 'barfy', depending on one's response to phenibut.

ebola

PsychedelicHaze
28-03-2014, 20:40
Also if you find yourself getting much tolerance, stop for a while. Phenibut doesn't cause physical addiction right away but it will cause it and the withdrawal is wretched, horrible anxiety, really bad.
got it. Thanks.


update: I felt fine when I was in bed but as soon as I got up and started moving I felt I was still feeling it. All the negative side effects are still lingering and feeling pretty nauseous now.


Never exceeding a gram ever. Hate being nauseous and it really feels like I have the flu..except being actually sick of course. Now I really feel bad for those who took crazy amounts. They must've went crazy..
it also feels like I'm out of breath. I don't know if that has to do with the nauseousness. Maybe it's heart burn?.

《Plasticity》
28-03-2014, 20:58
Also if you find yourself getting much tolerance, stop for a while. Phenibut doesn't cause physical addiction right away but it will cause it and the withdrawal is wretched, horrible anxiety, really bad.

Tell me about it 8), 1 weeks use cause me the worst withdrawal/rebound anxiety of any drug I've ever taken... 4 days of straight panic attack, I'll take my 3+year kratom withdrawal over that 1 week phenibut withdrawal ANYDAY....


This combo sounds like it would be pretty 'barfy', depending on one's response to phenibut.

ebola

Depends on the dose, 1g of phenibut with my regular dose of kratom is very pleasant.... no nausea to be found.


Maybe it's heart burn?.

Could be, phenibut is very acidic and it irritated the fuck out of my ulcers when I had them... try some tums or prilosec.

ebola?
28-03-2014, 21:49
2.5g had me nodding hard, but there was definitely a hangover the next day.

What is your level of general susceptibility to opioid hangovers? I believe these to be more severe for people quite experienced with opioids, particularly those who've experienced dependence at some point.


How long do you think I can go before my tolerance starts shooting up?

Well, 7-ho-mitragynine appears to be a potent full-agonist at mu, so I would expect the tolerance curve to be similar to other opioids (though there's as of yet no data on corresponding semi-synthetics).

ebola

Xorkoth
28-03-2014, 22:47
Tell me about it 8), 1 weeks use cause me the worst withdrawal/rebound anxiety of any drug I've ever taken... 4 days of straight panic attack, I'll take my 3+year kratom withdrawal over that 1 week phenibut withdrawal ANYDAY....


Really, only 1 week? I was taking it daily in pretty high dosages for a year when it happened to me. But I agree, it was worse than opiate withdrawal, it was absolutely horrible. I have taken it for weeks on end since and never experienced any withdrawal again. I am careful with it now though, usually I try to give a day between doses. Sometimes I'll go for weeks without any.

《Plasticity》
28-03-2014, 23:07
Yes, 1 fucking week :\… well maybe like 8 or 9 days but definately around a week, it was quite the wake up call. I was abusing no other GABA-ergics either. It probably didn't help that by the end of the week I was at 6gs. I also have GAD so I'm susceptable to rebound effects, same with benzos although not as extreme. 3 days on benzos will make for one shitty day but with phenibut it just kept going, no sleep during that time either. I found the tolerance to rise ultra fast and the rebound effects extremely unpleasant. Now you will never see me take phenibut more than 3x a month (though I've gone months without). I still have almost all of my 100g tub from like a year ago...

Flaga121
29-03-2014, 03:48
CK - For such a bright guy it seems pretty silly to let your dose get up to 6grams while using daily and not anticipate a nasty w/d! No offense of course, we all make silly choices. Tolerance seems to be one of the best predictors of dependence, when it goes up super fast thats not a good sign. Though I'm sure you know all this, still good info for the lurkers on the thread.

I haven't been using Phenibut long enough to say much. All I know is that, like with everything else, I cap my dose before I start taking it regularly. Once I have a good idea of the baseline effect I decide what the max I'll ever let myself take in a single day is, and stick to it. If I don't feel that dose I take a good long break, though I never do it close to daily anyway.

《Plasticity》
29-03-2014, 04:31
I knew phenibut was addictive but I had no idea 1 week was enough to cause withdrawal 8o... also I meant to type 5grams (not that it makes any difference lol). I noticed that almost each day after the 2nd or 3rd day I had to increase my dose by a gram, tolerance is a bitch with phenibut (for me at least). I read of people taking humoungous doses so I thought one week would be fine, boy was I surprised when I stopped use! Also for someone with anxiety gaba-ergics are so appealing, learned my lesson though. I've had a vial of 150mgs of etiz for months and still have most of it :D.

Ps. I do alot of stupid shit that's not reccomended, I'm gonna borrow a quote from xorkoth (or whomever he heard it from), "sometimes ones own wisdom isn't heeded"... I try not to carry any of my stupidity onto BL though for obvious HR reasons.

His Name Is Frank
29-03-2014, 10:16
I enjoyed phenibut for the short duration I had it. When I started wanting to use it more than twice a week, I just flushed the remaining 20 grams down the toilet. I didn't make it this far in my life to get addicted to some bullshit I bought off of Ebay.

cashfl0w_d0nkey
30-03-2014, 08:17
What is your level of general susceptibility to opioid hangovers? I believe these to be more severe for people quite experienced with opioids, particularly those who've experienced dependence at some point.

I'm formerly opioid dependent multiple times over (I also maintained using plain leaf kratom for awhile)... In my few dabbles since last breaking my dependence to opioids, I've definitely noticed hangovers are more pronounced and also that the beginnings of physical addiction happen almost right away. Anyway, I have some of this very UEI on the way and will report back sometime this next week with an update.

Hammilton
30-03-2014, 10:28
I didn't notice any decrease in efficacy of my morning dose of 4g kratom, though I added another 3 grams a few hours later because I was still too stimulated form the .5g OEB! That worked well.

I don't see any reason why it would make kratom ineffective altogether, no more than a few days of Oxy or Suboxone. I've noticed a decrease in effectiveness of kratom for a few days after I do those drugs, but it slowly comes back. I only dose twice a day, maybe three times when I'm taking plain leaf, and I experience significant withdrawal as it gets closer to the time for another dose.

I imagine that after this weekend when I go back I'll notice it's a bit less effective but by the weekend things will be back to normal. It's not like UEI has special receptor damaging qualities that would mean I'd have to use it forever in order to enjoy kratom at all.

When I first started kratom when coming off subs I didn't notice ANY opioid qualities, just a weird sedative effect. It took me a few weeks or a month before I started experiencing an opioid effect from it. I wonder if that'll happen when I go back to plain leaf tomorrow, it might. It'll suck that I'd have to go through that again, but so long as the leaf is able to keep me out of withdrawal and help me sleep, I've got no problems with going through that again.

I think perhaps people who use UEI and then notice a lack of enjoyable effect when they go back to kratom assume that kratom won't work anymore and thus go back to UEI right away instead of toughing it out for a week or two.

OEB is a stimulant for sure, calling it oxindole enhanced made me think it had been fortified with mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, but if that's the case, MPI is extremely stimulating. .5g of that made me unable to sleep for six hours. I had to use more just to stay awake during the workday because I got no sleep that night made for a very long day. I put .5g in some applesauce with 2g MD and ate half at 5 hours then half at 9 hours into my shift. worked good, fortunately.

Hammilton
30-03-2014, 22:22
Yeah, I don't plan on using them for a while after today.

I noticed a really strong hangover when I woke up today. Never have hangovers from opioids, either. Well, except a few times when I was younger and I nodded off and would wake up with a head ravaging migraine, which I attributed to not breathing enough. Two Advil always eliminated it within an hour.

I'll go back to plain leaf during the week and uei+plain leaf on weekends. I don't want all the euphoria, it's nice and all, but I want those noddy dreams on the weekend.

cashfl0w_d0nkey
31-03-2014, 01:08
The original trip report was just with UEI though, right? I didn't get any plain leaf because I don't like the cracked-out feeling after the initial effects wear off. My intent is to just take the UEI alone, but what do you think about taking it on its own? Good, or does it need the PL for full effects? I have a lot of experience with kratom but never tried the UEI, basically because I assumed it was similar to other extracts.

amanitadine
31-03-2014, 13:53
Hammilton- from what I've gathered in the past from him the OEB is enhanced with "Oxindole B", whatever that may be! Lotta potential oxindoles and pseudoindoxyls in the mitagynine skeleton... He used to sell it straight, and it was incredibly stimulating at 50mg! Crazy stuff....he used to also sell "250x" , which is what is diluted 1:10 with plain leaf to make UEI. It was discontinued because it was too potent and folks were going nuts with it. If you wanna go onna bender, try the ssFST! It is pricey...but 2ml will blast me father than several grams of UEI. Nice stuff...different character...more stimulating slightly than UEI but in high doses way more noddy and hypnagogic.

Either taken in high doses will ruin my tolerance to PL for 3-5 days, I don't mess with them anymore. I also have an extensive history! On various forums there are folks who have gotten addicted to high high doses of both (7-10 grams of UEI, 2-8 ml's of FST daily) and they describe the withdrawals as far worse than most serious high potency opioids. Nasty, besides spending outrageous amounts of money..

FWIW, when I used to take those extracts more than a day or two in a row my tolerance to them would rise far faster than other opioids. Who knows, but many other report the same. Maybe it takes a little while of playing with them..

Be "smart" and keep your leaf ussage where you are at..2-3 times a day seems to pretty maintainable for most. It only got really problematic for me when I started dosing every 4 hours, around the clock. And as I've said, the withdrawals with this approach are particularly nasty. Frequency seemed to have a more deleterious effect on my habit than my daily amount.....

strigoi
03-04-2014, 23:23
I have been using kratom for over a year now, and that is a year I have been able to pass any drug test! I know I'm still not 'clean and sober' all the time with my kratom use, but being able to take a random drug test at work with no fear feels like a real accomplishment. I know how silly that sounds, but I'm sure others can relate.

Kratom really is natures (much more pleasant) methadone. SS extracts are fantastic, however the addiction potential is very real and very easy to fall into.

I would recommend anyone wanting to get into kratom (or get off of an opiate addiction) start with plain leaf and try to stay there. It can make you feel great, but there is a ceiling effect and the side effects make it self limiting , so it is no where as addictive as traditional opiates or kratom extracts. Once you cross into extracts (ss or otherwise), going back to plain leaf won't be the same.

Also, as the other poster said, re-dosing is a big waste. Same day dosing gives very large diminishing returns, while increasing side effects. Day-to-day dosing exponentially raises tolerances. This is acceptable if you are trying to stop an opiate habit, but for recreational users I would stick to once or twice a week.

Kratom really is a gift. I hope some of these extracts don't cause it to become illegal. I love UEI, but I would rather never see it again than to loose the availability of plain leaf.

e; Kratom also gives me some of the most vivid/ lucid dreaming I have ever had on any substance. If I take UEI after 5pm I am guaranteed to rapidly fall into lucid dreaming.

Xorkoth
04-04-2014, 05:09
Some people have really intense kratom addictions, from plain leaf. I did it many times a day for like 7 years, and the withdrawal was horrible, in some ways worse than my current opiate, poppy tea (though much shorter). And I used plain leaf only, I mean occasionally I used an extract but rarely. For me, being on kratom is not being off of opiates, it hits the mu receptor and it has many alkaloids combining to give you multiple chemical withdrawal.

I'm not trying to rain on your parade, and congrats for getting off worse opiates. :) Just trying to share my experience with kratom, it's not benign like a lot of people think.

If you can manage to keep it to once or twice a week and sustain that, I would say it's totally fine to use. For me, I can't do that, I need to never do any opiates again once I get off this time. Kratom just kicks me right back into it.