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SwampFox56
16-02-2014, 20:35
Lately, especially since I've been getting paid regularly - I've wanted to try Kratom.

There is a website that sells a tincture of Kratom (15mL's) and I'd very much like to try it. What are some reasons why I should? What are some reasons why I shouldn't? Also, is Kratom even all that great? I know it's an Adrenergic agonist, and a full Mu-Opioid agonist, but is it something that you can enjoy? Also, I'd really rather not smoke the stuff. Does anyone have experience with taking Kratom orally (specifically the tincture of Kratom mixtures?)

Thanks guys!

《Plasticity》
16-02-2014, 21:27
Yes I do think you should give it a try, that is if you have little to no opioid tolerance. A few things you should know, kratom is NOT to be smoked, at all so don't do that. Another thing is tinctures and extracts are a fucking waste, they usually don't have the full spectrum of alkaloids which leads the the experience feeling like somethings missing not to mention the price per dose is alot.

I say you just order an ounce of bali and see what it has to offer, 5 grams is a good starting dose, always buy plain leaf or if you want something strong the UEI extract is gret but it will fuck your tolerance very quickly and make withdrawals worse. If your sensitive to nausea making a tea will help and make the experience "cleaner" as a whole. To make the tea bring a small amount of water to just under a boil, add the kratom, stir, let sit for 15mins and most importantly STRAIN THE PLANT MATTER! it puzzles me how some people take the time to make tea and consume all the plant matter. For me kratom is like a 30mg hydro buzz with the stimulation of a couple cups of coffee with absolutely no jitters, with red veins like bali and red vein borneo the whole experience can be sedating and euphoric.

Just a disclaimer, kratom is a mu agonist which means there is addiction potential. Kratom withdrawals suck (albeit not as bad as opioids) so definately don't get addicted. I find that kratom for me is a medicine that treats my anxiety, depression, motivational problems, and back pain so it was VERY easy to just say fuck it and hand my soul to kratom, if you have mental health issues you may feel the same. I honestly don't mind being addicted though as my overall quality of life has improved quite a bit since starting kratom, it works better than anything some psychiatrist is gonna hand me for my issues (likely lousy SSRI'). YMMV

If you have any questions about kratom I would be more than willing to answer them whether through PM's or this thread, I'm very informed and experienced with this amazing plant.

Bman2
16-02-2014, 21:34
You don't smoke kratom unless you like taking 50 puffs to get a small high. 100 puffs to really get any sort of desirable high. And by then, your lungs and throat are dying so its not worth it. Oral route is best. Kratom is worth giving a try if your opiate tolerance is within 80mg oxy. REALLY worth trying if you're opiate tolerance is within 40mg oxy. I would stay away from tinctures/extracts if you plan on being a regular user. Regular leaf is the way to go. Just get some decent kratom caps or buy some good quality leaf to make your own tea. Bali Kratom seems to be a favorite among people who want the opiate feel. You should go research 'strains of kratom' and see what kind of feeling you are looking for. Each has some distinct properties ranging from stimulant like effects to sedative/opiate effects. The best bang for your buck is also in buying leaf and anything that isn't an extract/tincture. Those can be nice on some occasions but some 'kratom enthusiast' will say that they lack some of the properties of the regular leaf. They are usually grossly overpriced as well. My opinion on Kratom and how great it is? It's pretty damn amazing to someone who has little to no opiate tolerance. It's decent(feels like 20-40mg oxy) at times for people with a mild tolerance. Anyone with a decent opiate tolerance usually get nothing out of kratom unless using it for maintenance, stopping withdrawal.

SwampFox56
16-02-2014, 21:54
Well I just realized that there is literally no website that will accept PayPal, and I don't get paid until Friday, so, instead, I bought some Poppy Seeds.

I'm planning on making poppy seed tea. I got a great deal on the seeds. I bought 8 ounces worth of seeds (roughly equal I about 20000 individual seeds) for the price of around only 1/4 of that. The best part is, the guy selling them claims that he's in the military and that these seeds were confiscated from Afghani Opium growers. They were supposed to be destroyed, but he got them past military customs and now he's selling them.

Kratom, I'm gonna buy on Friday. Probably with an e-Cig lol

SwampFox56
16-02-2014, 22:13
Yes I do think you should give it a try, that is if you have little to no opioid tolerance. A few things you should know, kratom is NOT to be smoked, at all so don't do that. Another thing is tinctures and extracts are a fucking waste, they usually don't have the full spectrum of alkaloids which leads the the experience feeling like somethings missing not to mention the price per dose is alot. I say you just order an ounce of bali and see what it has to offer, 5 grams is a good starting dose, always buy plain leaf or if you want something strong the UEI extract is gret but it will fuck your tolerance very quickly and make withdrawals worse. If your sensitive to nausea making a tea will help and make the experience "cleaner" as a whole. To make the tea bring a small amount of water to just under a boil, add the kratom, stir, let sit for 15mins and most importantly STRAIN THE PLANT MATTER! it puzzles me how some people take the time to make tea and consume all the plant matter. For me kratom is like a 30mg hydro buzz with the stimulation of a couple cups of coffee with absolutely no jitters, with red veins like bali and red vein borneo the whole experience can be sedating and euphoric.

Just a disclaimer, kratom is a mu agonist which means there is addiction potential. Kratom withdrawals suck (albeit not as bad as opioids) so definately don't get addicted. I find that kratom for me is a medicine that treats my anxiety, depression, motivational problems, and back pain so it was VERY easy to just say fuck it and hand my soul to kratom, if you have mental health issues you may feel the same. I honestly don't mind being addicted though as my overall quality of life has improved quite a bit since starting kratom, it works better than anything some psychiatrist is gonna hand me for my issues (likely lousy SSRI'). YMMV

If you have any questions about kratom I would be more than willing to answer them whether through PM's or this thread, I'm very informed and experienced with this amazing plant.

Wow. Great information. That went above and beyond what I was expecting.

So the Bali "strain" produces more typical opioid-like effects? Good to know. That'll probably be the one I buy then. I'm more of a person who likes nod-worthy highs, so I'll try that. Do you think I'll be able to sleep if I take it at night?

Also, have you ever combined it with benzo's?

WantToBeReborn
16-02-2014, 22:22
Yes I do think you should give it a try, that is if you have little to no opioid tolerance. A few things you should know, kratom is NOT to be smoked, at all so don't do that. Another thing is tinctures and extracts are a fucking waste, they usually don't have the full spectrum of alkaloids which leads the the experience feeling like somethings missing not to mention the price per dose is alot. I say you just order an ounce of bali and see what it has to offer, 5 grams is a good starting dose, always buy plain leaf or if you want something strong the UEI extract is gret but it will fuck your tolerance very quickly and make withdrawals worse. If your sensitive to nausea making a tea will help and make the experience "cleaner" as a whole. To make the tea bring a small amount of water to just under a boil, add the kratom, stir, let sit for 15mins and most importantly STRAIN THE PLANT MATTER! it puzzles me how some people take the time to make tea and consume all the plant matter. For me kratom is like a 30mg hydro buzz with the stimulation of a couple cups of coffee with absolutely no jitters, with red veins like bali and red vein borneo the whole experience can be sedating and euphoric.

Just a disclaimer, kratom is a mu agonist which means there is addiction potential. Kratom withdrawals suck (albeit not as bad as opioids) so definately don't get addicted. I find that kratom for me is a medicine that treats my anxiety, depression, motivational problems, and back pain so it was VERY easy to just say fuck it and hand my soul to kratom, if you have mental health issues you may feel the same. I honestly don't mind being addicted though as my overall quality of life has improved quite a bit since starting kratom, it works better than anything some psychiatrist is gonna hand me for my issues (likely lousy SSRI'). YMMV

If you have any questions about kratom I would be more than willing to answer them whether through PM's or this thread, I'm very informed and experienced with this amazing plant.

Great info.

So is Kratom similar to a full agonist opiate?

How quickly does tolerance build? How many weeks/months of constant use to produce withdrawals when stopped?

《Plasticity》
17-02-2014, 00:01
Wow. Great information. That went above and beyond what I was expecting.

So the Bali "strain" produces more typical opioid-like effects? Good to know. That'll probably be the one I buy then. I'm more of a person who likes nod-worthy highs, so I'll try that. Do you think I'll be able to sleep if I take it at night?

Also, have you ever combined it with benzo's?
Yeah as a rule of thumb red veins are the most sedating and opioid like while green veins are the most stimulating, white veins are in between the two effects wise, this doesn't ALWAYS apply but the majority of times it's the case. I've combined kratom with all drugs I've taken in the last 3 years as I'm dependant on it and always under the influence of kratom.

Benzos are an ok mix however I feel that if the benzo dose is too high they tend to dull the euphoria a bit. A plus is that kratom causes practicaly zero resperatory depression, even with benzos, alcohol, and other depressants I've never noticed any significant breathing issues. Kratom is a very safe plant with a complex list of alkaloids that range from immunostimulants to antibiotics, to cancer preventatives. And yes you should be able to sleep if it's one of sedating red veins, bali is the cheapest, most available, and IMO best strain so I highly reccomend picking some of that up. It takes time and experimentation to find the right strain that works for you but if your looking for opioid effects stick with red veins.

Red vein thai, kalimantan red vein, bali, and red vein borneo are my favorite red veins so check those out as well. Check out this fantastic post explaining the wide array of alkaloids, it's hard to look at kratom and not think it's truely a medicine after seeing all the benefits these alkaloids provide.

https://www.dmt-nexus.me/forum/default.aspx?g=posts&m=488576

Great info.

So is Kratom similar to a full agonist opiate?

How quickly does tolerance build? How many weeks/months of constant use to produce withdrawals when stopped?
Kratom is very strange in that tolerance seems to build extremely slowly, I'm only taking 3 grams more than what I was using 3 years ago. Kratom has mu agonists as well as one antagonist and I believe this is why tolerance doesn't build much. It took around a month of daily use to become dependant on kratom.

Also kratom has both full agonists as well as partial agonists but it feels like partial agonist. You can't really get any high from it that exceeds 40mgs hydro and thats if your strain is of good quality.

UEI or "ultra enhanced indo" on the other hand is a powerful extract active at around a gram and that feels just as good as medium to high dose oxy, like I said though UEI and extracts in general should be used very sparingly as they carry stronger dependance issues as well as tolerance issues.

I'm also gonna add that the withdrawals are very real and they suck but kratom withdrawals carry no sort of GI issues that other opioids cause when in withdrawal. I never get any nausea, vomiting, diahrea, or cramps and In fact I can eat as much as I want when I'm in withdrawals and have no GI distress, the same can't be said for nearly all opiates/opioids.

SwampFox56
17-02-2014, 00:07
More great information! ^^

How would you say Kratom is in terms of anxiety relief? I'd love to be able to just chew on a Kratom leaf when I'm getting to the point that I think I'm going to have a panic attack. Would that work? Do you think? I ask because, at work especially, there's no way I can afford to take benzo's. I need to be alert, and willing in order to perform my job correctly. Do you think Kratom would be a good, occasional, replacement for Lorazepam?

How does Kratom do if combined with Amphetamine? Have you done this? And if you have, what are the side-effects of this combination like?

ghostandthedarknes
17-02-2014, 00:21
Best info I've found so far on kratom. Thanks CaptainKratom.

《Plasticity》
17-02-2014, 00:29
Kratom can be a double edged sword when it comes to anxiety. For the most part kratom is fantastic for anxiety but every once in a while it can actually induce anxiety. Benzos are most definately effective but kratom smooths you right out as well. Also don't expect to be able to find fresh leaves, practically all kratom sold is either crushed leaf or powdered leaf.

Kratom take about an hour to peak when eating straight leaf/powder and 40mins when taken as a tea. I usually make one big pot every morning with all my doses and use volumetric dosing to seperate them, tea works best for anxiety, makes the peak stronger, reduces side effects, and saves your poor intestines from having to prcess grams and grams of hydrophobic powdered plant
.
Make sure you have at least a cheap .1 scale. Each strain has it's own weight which makes eyeballing impossible not to mention a "tbsp" can be either 3 grams or 6. I find that if I dose even 1 gram too low I'll be completely underwhelmed and if I dose 2 grams over my regular dose I'll get dizzy, nauseated, and have really bad "eye wiggles".

I hate stims so I've never combined them bur I imagine it would round out that amphetamine edge. I have taken it with stimulant empathogens and speedy psychedelics and it really ease the tension and jitters of the experience, with kratom I can make a horrible MDMA comedown enjoyable.

SwampFox56
17-02-2014, 03:20
Kratom can be a double edged sword when it comes to anxiety. For the most part kratom is fantastic for anxiety but every once in a while it can actually induce anxiety. Benzos are most definately effective but kratom smooths you right out as well. Also don't expect to be able to find fresh leaves, practically all kratom sold is either crushed leaf or powdered leaf. Kratom take about an hour to peak when eating straight leaf/powder and 40mins when taken as a tea. I usually make one big pot every morning with all my doses and use volumetric dosing to seperate them, tea works best for anxiety, makes the peak stronger, reduces side effects, and saves your poor intestines from having to prcess grams and grams of hydrophobic powdered plant.Make sure you have at least a cheap .1 scale. Each strain has it's own weight which makes eyeballing impossible not to mention a "tbsp" can be either 3 grams or 6. I find that if I dose even 1 gram too low I'll be completely underwhelmed and if I dose 2 grams over my regular dose I'll get dizzy, nauseated, and have really bad "eye wiggles". I hate stims so I've never combined them bur I imagine it would round out that amphetamine edge. I have taken it with stimulant empathogens and speedy psychedelics and it really ease the tension and jitters of the experience, with kratom I can make a horrible MDMA comedown enjoyable.

Again, great information about the understudied Kratom. It was a little difficult for me to read though. In the future, just for reference, you could probably get a lot more people to read your posts if you sliced that huge paragraph into two separate paragraphs. ;)

Roger&Me
17-02-2014, 04:12
Be careful. Its fine for most people, but in a small percentage of users it can cause adverse hepatic (liver) events. Look up the "health problems" section of the kratom trip reports on erowid.

Just be careful. Discontinue use immediately if you get abdominal pain, start to turn yellow (especially the whites of your eyes), or have very dark colored urine or very light colored feces. These are all signs of kratom-induced hepatitis.

SwampFox56
17-02-2014, 06:29
So you kind of freaked me out. Maybe it's just because I'm a hypochondriac, but I could swear that I have everything you just said. Seriously...

For the past month, my urine has been incredibly dark and had noticeable speaks in it. Speaks that almost look like dead skin or something. I just checked my eyes right now, and upon closer inspection - it definitely looks like they have a slight yellow tinge to them. My skin looks the same way - a slight yellow tinge. Nothing like what you see on the wiki page about Hepatitis, but still noticeable.

Also, I've had significant bowel issues and abdominal pain lately. To be honest, I always have abdominal issues and Pepcid seems to solve it - but lately, it's been worse...

Should I seek medical attention? I'm genuinely freaked out now... I know how dangerous liver issues can be. I saw, first hand, what happened when my grandmother was dying of congestive heart failure. Anyways, I'm gonna try drinking a couple glasses of water, an see if that helps. Also, I should probably stop drinking all the soda - so I'll so that too. Replace my soda intake with water and see if that improves things.

But anyways, seriously. Do I need to seek emergency medical attention?

Siccness909
17-02-2014, 10:29
I find Kratom amazing for WDs & Amp comedowns, its only a decent high for me cause I have a tolerance but seriously... HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GUYS GET THIS SHIT DOWN?? I've heard a lot of drugs I've taken to be "horrific" and "disgusting" but never have I had trouble always been over rated but Kratom??? I don't know what it is about it but for me it IS absolutely disgusting I gag every time I dose. Any tips?? I've read numerous times the simple toss n wash method which is what I do but is there anything else? I'vetthought parachute but to be able to actually fit a decent amount in a tissue it wouldn't even be able to go down? What do you guys only put a little each tissue & keep going till you reach your dose etc?

RTrain
17-02-2014, 13:46
So you kind of freaked me out. Maybe it's just because I'm a hypochondriac, but I could swear that I have everything you just said. Seriously...

For the past month, my urine has been incredibly dark and had noticeable speaks in it. Speaks that almost look like dead skin or something. I just checked my eyes right now, and upon closer inspection - it definitely looks like they have a slight yellow tinge to them. My skin looks the same way - a slight yellow tinge. Nothing like what you see on the wiki page about Hepatitis, but still noticeable.

Also, I've had significant bowel issues and abdominal pain lately. To be honest, I always have abdominal issues and Pepcid seems to solve it - but lately, it's been worse...

Should I seek medical attention? I'm genuinely freaked out now... I know how dangerous liver issues can be. I saw, first hand, what happened when my grandmother was dying of congestive heart failure. Anyways, I'm gonna try drinking a couple glasses of water, an see if that helps. Also, I should probably stop drinking all the soda - so I'll so that too. Replace my soda intake with water and see if that improves things.

But anyways, seriously. Do I need to seek emergency medical attention?

Dude, I think he was saying those are adverse reactions to Kratom and watch out for them. But if you are jaundiced anyway then I guess a checkup might be a good idea.

If you are checking the sclera of your eyes for jaundice (sclere = white part) then you need to do it in natural light. Don't use artificial light because it can have a yellowish/orangish hue to it that. When I look at my eye in my bathroom at night, they always look a bit yellow, but its just the artificial light reflecting off them. If I look during the day with no lights on in the room my eyes always look plain white.

If you still look a bit jaundiced I would definitely get it checked out. A doctor will order the appropriate tests. Keep drinking water for the time being, see if that helps. But if you really think you are looking a bit jaundiced I would go to a doctor or urgent care center if you can't get an appointment quickly.

Where is your pain in the abdomen?'



I find Kratom amazing for WDs & Amp comedowns, its only a decent high for me cause I have a tolerance but seriously... HOW THE FUCK DO YOU GUYS GET THIS SHIT DOWN?? I've heard a lot of drugs I've taken to be "horrific" and "disgusting" but never have I had trouble always been over rated but Kratom??? I don't know what it is about it but for me it IS absolutely disgusting I gag every time I dose. Any tips?? I've read numerous times the simple toss n wash method which is what I do but is there anything else? I'vetthought parachute but to be able to actually fit a decent amount in a tissue it wouldn't even be able to go down? What do you guys only put a little each tissue & keep going till you reach your dose etc?


I feel the exact same way with the exaggeration of how bad drugs taste, except kratom. I mean it is so awful even the smell, at this point, makes me gag. I just made a comment in the Suboxone mega thread about this because someone was complaining about Subs taste. Phenibut is another that its like 'sure it tastes bad, but I can tolerate it', though people complain about how awful it tastes. But Kratom is just so bad tasting it is in a league by itself.

I try the toss and wash and always have tasted way more than I care for. I prefer mixing it with OJ and downing it real quick before it settles to the top. Still is nasty though because it doesn't mix well.

I suppose capsulizing them would be a good idea. Pretty cheap to buy them and filling them can't be too hard. I guess a tincture would be easier to consume, though I hear they don't work as well.

missmeyet?
17-02-2014, 22:12
I bought a little capsule maker several years ago just because of these issues with kratom...it works great and is the only way i can take it..

Snake_Eyes
18-02-2014, 02:47
Dude, I think he was saying those are adverse reactions to Kratom and watch out for them. But if you are jaundiced anyway then I guess a checkup might be a good idea.

If you are checking the sclera of your eyes for jaundice (sclere = white part) then you need to do it in natural light. Don't use artificial light because it can have a yellowish/orangish hue to it that. When I look at my eye in my bathroom at night, they always look a bit yellow, but its just the artificial light reflecting off them. If I look during the day with no lights on in the room my eyes always look plain white.

If you still look a bit jaundiced I would definitely get it checked out. A doctor will order the appropriate tests. Keep drinking water for the time being, see if that helps. But if you really think you are looking a bit jaundiced I would go to a doctor or urgent care center if you can't get an appointment quickly.

Where is your pain in the abdomen?'





I feel the exact same way with the exaggeration of how bad drugs taste, except kratom. I mean it is so awful even the smell, at this point, makes me gag. I just made a comment in the Suboxone mega thread about this because someone was complaining about Subs taste. Phenibut is another that its like 'sure it tastes bad, but I can tolerate it', though people complain about how awful it tastes. But Kratom is just so bad tasting it is in a league by itself.

I try the toss and wash and always have tasted way more than I care for. I prefer mixing it with OJ and downing it real quick before it settles to the top. Still is nasty though because it doesn't mix well.

I suppose capsulizing them would be a good idea. Pretty cheap to buy them and filling them can't be too hard. I guess a tincture would be easier to consume, though I hear they don't work as well.

I enjoy the smell of kratom and can tolerate the taste, never once has it made me gag. Like you I prefer to mix mine in a glass of OJ and down it like a big shot. I first add about an inch or so of hot tap water in the glass which allows the kratom to mix since the stuff doesn't mix in cold liquids. Once the k-mud is made I'll let it sit for 10 minutes or so, this softens it up and makes it much less gritty. Then fill the rest of the glass with OJ, give it a quick stir and slam it. :)

SwampFox56
18-02-2014, 04:11
I'll let it sit for 10 minutes or so, this softens it up and makes it much less gritty. Then fill the rest of the glass with OJ, give it a quick stir and slam it. :)

Funny. I used to do the same thing when I would strain Ethanol from hand sanitizer. It would get all the goo and other chemicals out... except the fragrance and bitterant.

You know how alcohol is hard to drink to begin with? Well I could barely get that down without puking. I'd try mixing it with OJ and other shit, but that only made it just 1% above impossible to drink. Anyways, after I did that for a while; eventually I would get nauseous just smelling hand sanitizer.

Glad I'm able to sleep without having to do that anymore.

miscbrahh
18-02-2014, 05:13
haven't read this thread but my experience was that i'd have an ALL DAY hangover the next day, literally just lying down / sitting in a chair and trying not to move too much. no need to throw up but just felt so lethargic / bit of a headache. happened 2 or 3 times and i said never again

tried maybe 4 or 5 times, but i couldn't get the effects i wanted... don't know why i haven't tossed the stuff tbh, i guess it's cause i decided just to go find oxy (no next day hangover / easy to swallow pill / dosage is quick and easy / liked the high more )

good luck but it was just time wasted for me

Snake_Eyes
18-02-2014, 06:39
haven't read this thread but my experience was that i'd have an ALL DAY hangover the next day, literally just lying down / sitting in a chair and trying not to move too much. no need to throw up but just felt so lethargic / bit of a headache. happened 2 or 3 times and i said never again

tried maybe 4 or 5 times, but i couldn't get the effects i wanted... don't know why i haven't tossed the stuff tbh, i guess it's cause i decided just to go find oxy (no next day hangover / easy to swallow pill / dosage is quick and easy / liked the high more )

good luck but it was just time wasted for me

I've never gotten a hangover from kratom but I also never dose over 5 grams (usually 3-4). If I could afford to be on oxy/hydro more often then I would but sadly I can't. I use the good stuff once a month and use kratom to fill the void in between plus I can take a week off and be 90% back to baseline which is something I can't do with true opioids.

jackie jones
18-02-2014, 06:51
Kratom tinctures, drinks, and extracts are generally disappointing and a waste of money. If you decide to, go for straight powdered maeng da and buy a bag of capsules.

《Plasticity》
19-02-2014, 00:22
Again, great information about the understudied Kratom. It was a little difficult for me to read though. In the future, just for reference, you could probably get a lot more people to read your posts if you sliced that huge paragraph into two separate paragraphs. ;)
Lol trust me I'm aware, long story short if I forget to indent (which is usually something I do AFTER typing a post) my phone won't let me scroll up and add indentation, sorry :P



haven't read this thread but my experience was that i'd have an ALL DAY hangover the next day, literally just lying down / sitting in a chair and trying not to move too much. no need to throw up but just felt so lethargic / bit of a headache. happened 2 or 3 times and i said never again

tried maybe 4 or 5 times, but i couldn't get the effects i wanted... don't know why i haven't tossed the stuff tbh, i guess it's cause i decided just to go find oxy (no next day hangover / easy to swallow pill / dosage is quick and easy / liked the high more )

good luck but it was just time wasted for me

In all my years of use I have never had nor heard of people experiencing.any significant hangover unless they dosed to high and got sick, this can be avoided by using a scale and finding your sweet spot.


Kratom tinctures, drinks, and extracts are generally disappointing and a waste of money. If you decide to, go for straight powdered maeng da and buy a bag of capsules.
This is good advice only I would reccomend not buying maeng da (unless of course you really enjoy it's effects) , on average maeng da is only .1-.2% more mitragynine by weight, sometimes even less, but it's priced WAY higher than what it should be, not to mention maeng da is typically very stimulating and rather lacking in the euphoria dept as opposed to the red veins which sound like what your looking for. Bali mitragynine content is 1.8% from my supplier while the more expensive strains average around 1.5%.

batrider
19-02-2014, 00:33
I had a complete trainwreck a few weeks ago. I was hospitalized due to not breathing. One full bottle smallest size and my second time too. Kinda flicked relations with my doctor.

Edit: f s t

《Plasticity》
19-02-2014, 01:24
Why would you down a full bottle of FST? That's pretty fucking stupid.if you ask me, alot of extracts contain a synthetic mitragynine analog called "mitragynine oxindole" which is a very potent mu agonist. If you stick to plain leaf OD is practically impossible, I've never even noticed any significant breathing problems when mixing plain leaf with benzos (not a reccomendation btw, for HR sake). Take it easy before you become the first to die from kratom, don't ruin things for those that are responsible.

batrider
19-02-2014, 01:52
Why would you down a full bottle of FST? That's pretty fucking stupid.if you ask me, alot of extracts contain a synthetic mitragynine analog called "mitragynine oxindole" which is a very potent mu agonist. If you stick to plain leaf OD is practically impossible, I've never even noticed any significant breathing problems when mixing plain leaf with benzos (not a reccomendation btw, for HR sake). Take it easy before you become the first to die from kratom, don't ruin things for those that are responsible.

Stupid? Yes. Easy to do? Yes. Significant that I've taken so much oxycodone before and didn't end up with this issue? Maybe.

I don't want to end it though my family confiscated like 15 mL worth that I had left wanted an intense start to my weekend left with everyone including myself worried.

jackie jones
19-02-2014, 02:14
This is good advice only I would reccomend not buying maeng da (unless of course you really enjoy it's effects) , on average maeng da is only .1-.2% more mitragynine by weight, sometimes even less, but it's priced WAY higher than what it should be, not to mention maeng da is typically very stimulating and rather lacking in the euphoria dept as opposed to the red veins which sound like what your looking for. Bali mitragynine content is 1.8% from my supplier while the more expensive strains average around 1.5%.

I think you may be right. Although I have tried every strain, I think that latter in my trials I tried maeng da and found it to work well, so I just stuck with it.

SwampFox56
25-02-2014, 04:54
So I got those poppy seeds today. And wow... I'm really impressed to be honest. I did not expect the effects to be anywhere near as powerful as they are. Especially not with just 7.5 grams of the stuff and one wash.

Maybe the seeds I got were really high potency? The place I got them from claimed that they were brought back from Afghanistan by a soldier over there. I don't know how valid the story is, but I do know that the seeds smell very earthy, and do not seem to be washed at all. They're a mix of black and blue with what looks to be remains of the poppy inside the bag.

Anyways, I would compare this to 10 milligrams of Oxycodone. Has anyone else experienced this?

《Plasticity》
25-02-2014, 05:30
Everytime I've tried PST it never worked, perhaps I didn't get the right seeds. I was always left with nausea, lightheadedness, and a dry mouth with nothing to show for it. Just keep in mind that poppy addiction whether seeds or pods is a real bitch, not something you wanna get hooked on. You would basically be picking up a morphine and codeine addiction with PST, be carefull. Pods are far better than seeds though IMO. Were.the seeds.from a vendor or store bought?

SwampFox56
25-02-2014, 08:05
Everytime I've tried PST it never worked, perhaps I didn't get the right seeds. I was always left with nausea, lightheadedness, and a dry mouth with nothing to show for it. Just keep in mind that poppy addiction whether seeds or pods is a real bitch, not something you wanna get hooked on. You would basically be picking up a morphine and codeine addiction with PST, be carefull. Pods are far better than seeds though IMO. Were.the seeds.from a vendor or store bought?

Neither actually. The seeds were from just some random guy off the internet. Again, he claims that he knows someone who goes to Afghanistan a lot and that he skims seeds from the huge bags that poppy farmers keep.

SwampFox56
05-03-2014, 08:48
Does anyone know if freebase Morphine or Codeine are unstable.

I ask because my first batch of Poppy Seed Tea (which I drank immediately) was exactly like some of my better Codeine experiences. Very noddy, very warm and nice and comfortable. But after that all the other teas I made were terrible.

They were actually minorly stimulating and anxiety-inducing. Probably from sigma agonism? Of the 'lesser' alkaloids of opium? I don't know...

Anyways, I'll be trying Kratom here shortly. I'll see how it compares.

blight12
07-03-2014, 00:31
Just wanted to add my recent Kratom story here, as posted in another thread. I abused it year back which was unfortunate, but now that its working again, its honestly an amazing substance when used correctly, with the correct expectations and caution:

I messed up my tolerance a year back with extracts and high doses, to the point when even the best shit did nothing except for extreme anxiety, waited a year without using any opiate and now I am fucking loving making tea with a lot of crushed leaves (not powder), straining/filtering and drinking over about 7 hours. Prob 7-10 grams of crushed leaves simmered for 10 mins and strained into 1.5 l water to drink over a extended period of time. (To be clear this is commercial plantation bali crushed leaves from that company that every kratom user is familiar with)

Been doing that for 3 weeks, 3 times a week (with off days, never more then 2 days in a row) and have had no tolerance or issues. I am so so happy i can use Kratom again, its amazing stuff in lower doses due to the clear headed euphoric calm stimulation.

Amazing for working and general mental performance enhancement, to me its like what amps should be, a magical combo of functional responsible stimulation, GABA cognitive enhancement and opiate type euphoria for the motivation. Its perfect. I actually cannot describe how happy I am that i can use Kratom again due to how functional it has been and how its kept me off the booze.

Seriously, do not risk your tolerance, its never worth the few powerful H type highs you will get before you loose the low dose Kratom specific magic for months or years. My biggest mistake was expecting Kratom to be an opiate and trying to dose it to be that for me. You need to have the correct expectations, or non at all before using.

Now I use it for what it is, which is a completely unique combination of upper/downer effects and when you realize thats its specific value, you can really start to enjoy it safely with the correct expectations, making sure not to use daily and to stay away from high doses or extracts or seeking that elusive opiate feeling.

ghostandthedarknes
07-03-2014, 02:13
Nice post blight12, thanx. Good info.

SwampFox56
07-03-2014, 06:28
Got 4oz of Bali today. I'll tell you guys how I like it.

SwampFox56
07-03-2014, 06:43
So wait...

Should I drink 5oz or 5 grams? No one really specifically says in the thread...

blight12
07-03-2014, 21:12
5 grams would be considered a good first dose, but it differs. For me i had to take like 20g for good effects but I was also expecting something different, is quite subtle if your new to it. For powered I would eat a heaped tablespoon with yogurt and see from there. For tea id just check 10-20g in a pot and boil it and drink slowly to see what its effects are and your dosage tolerances.

Tea is by far the best way, I dont think id be able to take another spoonful of kratom yogurt ever again and no more powder stuck on your throat or going in your nose. Its just fukin disguising and im usually fine with most anything. It starts off fine but it gets worse and worse. The powder is just unmanageable, its consistency make it difficult for any method of use, even for tea as you then cant strain it with a simple seive.

SwampFox56
08-03-2014, 06:27
So I've had several cups of Kratom tea and I can honestly input on my experience of it now.

I bought Bali vein of Kratom from an online vender (won't say the name, but it their initials are AE) when I got it, I honestly was not expecting it to come in a pill bottle. I thought I had been shipped the wrong thing, but then I opened it up to find the thing absolutely over flowing with dried Kratom. It smelled really fresh and I could swear it has a hint of mint in it or something.

Anyways, I was excited, so I quickly measured out 5 grams like everyone said (which I found to surprisingly not even be 1/12 of the bottle - they really give you bang for your buck) mixed it with luke-warm water stired for like, 2 minutes strained it, then downed the entire thing. 5 minutes passed and I could swear I felt a tinge of something. So I waited, then I waited some more, and then some more and... Nothing.

I was kinda pissed off. I felt jipped and wondered why people online were raving about this stuff. Well, I went about my day and then later that night, I decided I try again, but with 8 grams. I decided that I should probably follow what people said worked best. So I put some water in my tea pot, dumped in the Kratom and brought the tea to a very soft boil to where I me it sit like that for around 5 minutes. This time, I strained it and decided to treat it exactly like tea. Put some sugar in it, waited for it to cool down a bit and then drank the entire thing in less than 10 minutes.

Within 5 minutes of finishing it, I definitely started to feel the 'adrenergic' side of the drug. It was totally unexpected. I started to feel rather jacked up than sedated. It definitely wasn't unpleasant, in fact it was incredibly smooth stimulation. In fact, I'd call it the smoothest stimulating drug I've ever tried. I had a whole bunch on energy with just a tinge of sedation to take the edge off. It was perfect. The only thing I didn't like about it was the fact that it gave me minor tachycardia.

Anyways, that went on for a bit and then suddenly... BAM. A huge wave of sedation hit me. I instantly felt the 'opiate' side of the drug. Comparable to 85ish milligrams of Codeine or 10ish milligrams of Hydrocodone. That's was I was looking for. It instantly brought my mood up made me tired, but not tired. It was like... Everything great about an opioid high, without the nodding. That was a little disappointing. I was hoping for a nod worthy high. But after reading everything - that's not what Kratom is. It's more like a speedball... Without having to take the speed lol.

This was at 2 in the morning, however, so I decided that I'd try to kill the stimulating effects as much as I could. So I took 50 milligrams of Diphenhydramine which definitely potentiated the opioid effects and made me even more tired, but still unable to sleep. So I decided (even though I had an opioid in me) to go ahead and take my Temazepam. Once I did that - the stimulating part of the high was all but killed. Instantly, I got the 'nod-worthy' high I was looking for. I felt so comfortable in my soft bed and warm blankets that I couldn't move much and slowly drifted off into the abyss.

I awoke about 6 hours later to a massive headache, sore muscles, and I was dying of thirst. I got out of bed and went to my bathroom in a haze and drank several glasses of water. I could tell, at this point, that even though I felt really 'noddy' when I had drifted off into sleep, that the adrenergic agonists in Kratom - while comfortable, didn't give me any sort of refreshing sleep. So I was sti incredibly tired when I woke up. So after I drank my water. I took two milligrams of Lorazepam, and went back to bed for another 6 hours. Eventually waking up feeling okay. I got up, ate something, and I noticed that I was actually feeling quite better than usual. Not as depressed I would say.

A couple hours later I went to see a movie and right before that I made a small batch if tea (just 2 grams) and went off the movie. I had a great time sitting there, but what really caught me off guard was the speed.

After the movie, I took one 20 milligram Adderall, and sat down. I sat there for 20 minutes on my phone and then I noticed the arcade across from the theatre. I decided to go and glance inside. When I did, I noticed that all of the games there were $1.00 or more per game so I was about to head out, but then I caught a lonely Ms. Pac-Man machine sitting in the corner. It looked like it hadn't been touched since the 80's. It was only 25ยข per play and I happened to have a couple quarters in my pocket. So I blew the dust off the joystick, popped one of the quarters into the machine and booted up the game.

Instantly, a wave of nastolgia hit me and I actually started to feel obligated to play well. Like it would be disrespectful to history of this machine not to try my best. So I started playing... and I strafed playing really fucking good. I was advancing past every stage, getting all the fruit, not dying. I was so into the game that I literally forgot about everything else.

This kind of focus is something I only ever experienced when I first started my stimulant ADHD therapy. The small amount of Kratom had actually brought the magic back to Adderall. It felt so good, it was like honeymooning with Amphetamine all over again.

After 30 minutes of non-stop playing (and only 1 life left) I started to notice that I was getting close to the high score. I instantly knew that I HAD to beat that and put everything I had into beating that fucker. I got another level further but I was so far into the game, and the ghosts had gotten so hard to avoid tha I didn't think I was gonna make it. I started sweating like mad and shouting at the game "Cmon you peice of shit! MOVE!" All four ghosts had me surrounded and were moving in on me right at the same time as an Apple appeared right in front of Ms. PAC-MAN. I though I was dead and screamed "NOOOOO!!!" Right at the top of my lungs, but got the apple literally as the ghosts died. Sending my score up to 200,000 and giving me an extra life! I couldn't believe it! I went bezerk lol. I screamed as loud as I could "YESSSS!!! HOLY FUCK! YESSSS!!! HOW THE FUCK DID I SURVIVE THAT?! YES!!!" I still didn't live much longer after that, but I got the high score on the machine, and walked out of the arcade feeling like a pimp.

SwampFox56
08-03-2014, 06:38
This gif couldn't better represent how I felt when I got the high score on PAC-MAN.

http://usatftw.files.wordpress.com/2013/05/frnxxym1.gif?w=660&h=372

blight12
08-03-2014, 09:33
Lol, that descriion is perfect. After starting to use again now, why i love it is exactly because of the speedball type opiate euphoria combined with stimulation and motivation. Its the perfect combo for a normal day and getting things done, and when it wears off you can sleep easily, it just might feel like you might not want to, when its wearing off thats when the sedation hits hard for me always. Sleep can be a bit weird because you get these crazy detailed closed eye visuals of things, almost as real as dream level visuals that can be a bit disturbing when trying to sleep but you pass out fine.

I have had to change my dose times though as when ive used it ive stayed up the whole night and gotten so much work done, its amazing, now just take it earlier like 3p and sip the 1l tea until about 9pm.

You wont get opiate level experiences though. Ive tried all the best extracts and they gave experiences close to what H did for me, close enough to impress me but still no nod, but at the terrible cost of heavy long term tolerance.

But if you want a mild functional and euphoric speedball effect then kratom is ideal. Even beats amps for me for getting things done.

SwampFox56
11-03-2014, 02:03
[...]

Sadly, I almost agree...

I still like my Adderall better - mainly because it's therapeutic index (for my symptoms anyways) fits a lot better. However, I've noticed lately that Adderall... kinda makes me feel like I've just smoked some weed. It's really odd. I get that vibrating headspace feeling, puffy eyes, tired, unfocused and it actually feels a little unmotivating. If I combine it with DXM (I usually take 20 milligrams of DXM a day to help with tolerance build up) it literally drops my focus from 5% to 0%. It greatly enhances the stimulation - but only the negative effects of stimulation (bruxism, repetitive movements, anxiety, headache, bowl issues, etc)

However, I took some Sudafed (for nasal decongestion, not trying to get high) and alternatively it gave me more focus than Adderall has been lately, but not quiet as much motivation. It makes me think that Norepinephrine is more of a mediator for attention and Dopamine is more of a mediator for focus. You can't complete a task without either though (Singular noradrenergic agonism = anxiety, heart palpitations, etc. Singular dopamine agonism = compulsions, dissociation, sedation and even psychosis) the combination of the two is what elicits a positive action. (With norepinephrine mediating your attention towards what HAS (instead of executing compulsive behaviors) to be done, and Dopamine actually giving you the motivation to get up and go do it)

hangyourhead
11-03-2014, 19:01
Every time I've tried Kratom, various strains at that, I've been disappointed. The only interesting psychoactive effect I got was a comfortable stimulation from the adrenergic properties in the alkaloids. Reminiscent of caffeine, a smooth ephedrine, or ~5mg d-amp.

Even ordered it from a reliable US vendor, but I think my heroin habit (IV 1-2g's daily) was far too heavy for me to even be able to tell if I liked Kratom.

Back in the day, my buddy boiled some UEI Kratom in grapefruit juice. It felt like a stimulating yet cozy low-dose oxycodone/buprenorphine (NOT the potency of bupe, obviously)

《Plasticity》
12-03-2014, 03:55
but I think my heroin habit (IV 1-2g's daily) was far too heavy for me to even be able to tell if I liked Kratom.
Yeah I think you know very well why kratom was so innefective :p

Flaga121
12-03-2014, 06:21
3 grams of Kratom has me feeling amazing. I mix the powder with an acidic juice and shake before each sip. The acid allows it to actually mix. Tastes pretty good honestly, I enjoy drinking it and I've not had time to get used to it (5 days of Bupe withdrawal are all I've been using it for, so far). I had a solid tolerance coming and and was coming off a pretty long term addiction. Kratom can be a very powerful substance, and I'm not talking extracts. The pure leaf powder (from a reputable vender) has been amazing for me.

The Captain knows his shit, I pretty much spent two days reading his posting on the subject before ordering.

My strain input would be - Red Vein Thai/Bali are my favorite "downer" style strains. When I wake up I like a blend of Maeng da and Ultra Red Indo (Maeng IS overpriced, but not by enough to bother me at the moment, and it's the most stimulating strain i've used thus far. Haven't tried any green veins yet though, which as CR said, are supposed to be more stimulating.

I will say the typical opiate muscle itch is far more profound with Kratom and seems to outlast the high by a bit (as an opiate addict, I don't mind this at all personally).

SwampFox56
12-03-2014, 07:20
So I've been using Kratom for only 4 days. Usually two cups a day. Started with 5 grams a cup, then yesterday, bumped it up to 10 grams a cup. Well, it's been 24 hours since I had my last cup of Kratom tea and... holy fuck. I didn't realize it until just an hour ago or so, but I've been experiencing WD's all day. First it started with really severe depression that came out of nowhere. It really caught me off guard and I was starting to have minor suicidal idealization. But then I took my Lamotrigine and that helped a bit....

It's been 3 hours since that and now... I'm starting to get the sickness really bad. Horrible feeling of uneasiness, hot flash is starting to come on, muscles ache, head aches, sweats... Yeah, it was kinda cool when I started drinking Kratom, but... I'm done with it as of now...

《Plasticity》
12-03-2014, 07:46
The Captain knows his shit, I pretty much spent two days reading his posting on the subject before ordering.
Glad I helped :)

SF it sounds like you were going a little too hard on the kratom, just like opiates/opioids it's VERY easy to ignore shit and put all worries and common sense aside when your wrapped up in that warm blanket of comfort but this is incredibly dangerous thought. It would be wise to ride out any withdrawal you should be experiencing, you should be fine in 2-3 days, if that since you haven't been using too long. After this recovery period, IF you decide to use kratom aim for no more than 3x a week with at least 2 days in between doses. I was able to juggle this schedule around for about 6 months with no problems before saying "fuck it".

SwampFox56
12-03-2014, 08:30
No worries. My nightly dose of Temazepam has warded off most of the WD's. Should be a cake walk. Slight muscle stiffness still, but the nausea, chest/head pain, sweats and hot flash are all but gone.

Thank god for my nightly benzo's.

Interestingly enough, I kinda think Kratom has lowered my tolerance to benzo's. The Temazepam feels WAY strongfer than it usually does...

《Plasticity》
12-03-2014, 09:27
Interestingly enough, I kinda think Kratom has lowered my tolerance to benzo's. The Temazepam feels WAY strongfer than it usually does...
Strange that you mention this. While I'm not a benzo addict, when I use to the point of rebound effects, my doses of kratom are barely even felt except for some real bad anxiety, I only get this increase in anxiety when my tolerance is high. This is relevant as I got the opposite effects your describing from doing things in inverse ie. I'm a kratom addict who's tolerance rises in gaba rebound and your getting a decrease in gaba tolerance from kratoms rebound effects.

Strangely enough as soon as I get through the rebound effects of whatever benzo my tolerance to kratom returns to normal. It's like switching between habits one at a time is in some way counter-intuitive. Another thing I find is that benzos actually dull my kratom highs, I've never got why people take high doses of benzos with opioids as a form of potentiation, benzos seem to practically counter-act opioids effects for me. I somehow feel these two addictions are intertwined or work by a similar (or polar opposite) ways through the same functions. IIRC opioids affect GABA as well in some way but I'm too lazy to look that up.

Snake_Eyes
13-03-2014, 03:16
I find just 7.5mg of temazepam provides nice potentiation without overpowering kratoms effects.

blight12
14-03-2014, 01:58
So I've been using Kratom for only 4 days. Usually two cups a day. Started with 5 grams a cup, then yesterday, bumped it up to 10 grams a cup. Well, it's been 24 hours since I had my last cup of Kratom tea and... holy fuck. I didn't realize it until just an hour ago or so, but I've been experiencing WD's all day. First it started with really severe depression that came out of nowhere. It really caught me off guard and I was starting to have minor suicidal idealization. But then I took my Lamotrigine and that helped a bit....

It's been 3 hours since that and now... I'm starting to get the sickness really bad. Horrible feeling of uneasiness, hot flash is starting to come on, muscles ache, head aches, sweats... Yeah, it was kinda cool when I started drinking Kratom, but... I'm done with it as of now...

Yeah with my recent usage I have found that 2 days on Kratom, even if used over 4-7 hours each of those two days, and then two days off on benzoz is the best, no tolerance increase, no drop in effects, no withdrawals etc. I have pushed it to three days in Kratom before and the third day you can feel some tolerance which comes with some added anxiety in the mix, and the next day mild mild withdrawals, just basically bad mood level, which was today for me after 3 prev days on Kratom.

Thats as far as I would push it. 4 days in a row is to much, the tolerance becomes clearly noticeable and you definitely feel withdrawals after, even if its not that bad. Im pretty happy with the ability to use 3 days in a row though, then i only need 2 days on shit benzoz and then can restart the Kratom again without issues.

maynard29607
14-03-2014, 12:01
I have used kratom for about a month for pain relief. 4 grams of White Sumatra or 3 grams of baeng na really help. I am also highly functional at work.

As far as things I have learned-
-I only feel effects on empty stomach
-beer dulls the euphoria
-3-4 grams has slight euphoria
-7-8 grams has nausea and disorientation

This is not an herb to get wasted on. This is something I use for natural pain relief and my wife uses for anxiety.

《Plasticity》
14-03-2014, 22:06
Hey maynard, tell your wife that in the long run kratom may actually make anxiety worse if she let's tolerance build to a certain level. One of the reasons I use kratom is for my GAD and I notice that if I dose too high or my tolerance increases too much that I get a strong spike in anxiety every time I dose, just something to be aware of.