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Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

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no it doesnt man... its all bull crap about the naloxone. only bupe causes ANY of the negative effects, unless the person is sensitive or allergic to naloxone. as it does get into the blood stream. it just gets out muscled by bupe at the receptor.

subutex and suboxone are seriously almost the exact same thing. dr's and pharamcists who believe otherwise, like mine, are idiots.

ive been getting very upset about this with people who try to argue otherwise... i mean dude. im a walking example. ugh...

not upset at u Zerrr!! just to be clear. i know what u mean. btw i use alcohol everyday with my sub, u do know about that right? its great for using less.

i personally think, dont know, that it would take a lot of naloxone in most folks to start reversing any bupe... im not quite sure how that really works... i mean the naloxone has a lower affinity. but maybe if the blood concentration is at or above a certain level then it doesnt matter. that would explain why i can shoot thru 2-4mg bupe with 3 bags of decent dope when im being dumb and relapse. its just too much higher of a concentration of the other.... am i on the right track here u neuro-chem buffs??


EDIT: just a little FYI: this last relapse i waited 40+ hours to re-dose my sub again and still got mild-moderate PW symptoms even after that long... wow that sucks. dont relapse, and possibly put yourself thru this if you get any ideas of getting high. it sucks, and never used to happen to me. just one day, bam! no more switching back and forth easily.

i even got some dope on my finger while preping the stuff. i licked my finger clean, while continuing on. It almost instantly gave me w/d somehow. it had only been about 18-24 hours since my last bupe dose too. i have no idea why that happened...
huge pupils, instant sweat, burning.freezing, GI issues.... it was crazy. then i hit the shot, it works, and im good as normal. until re-dosing the sub again at 40+ hours.... then a day or so of dysphoria and mild-moderate w/d. so stupid of me. still doesnt make a whole lot of sense to me tho. i just dont feel like getting high anymore... not worth it.
 
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no it doesnt man... its all bull crap about hte naloxone. only bupe causes ANY of the negative effects, unless the person is sensitive or allergic to naloxone. as it does get into the blood stream. it just gets out muscled by bupe at the receptor.

subutex and suboxone are seriously almost the exact same thing. dr's and pharamcists who believe otherwise, like mine, are idiots.

ive been getting very upset about this with people who try to argue otherwise... i mean dude. im a walking example. ugh...

not upset at u Zerrr!! just to be clear. i know what u mean. btw i use alcohol everyday with my sub, u do know about that right? its great for using less.

imo

Its a fair question considering there have been numerous posts on here saying that subutex was more enjoyable than suboxone. Only reasonable explanation for that would be the naloxone was diminishing the euphoria of the bupe.

btw i use alcohol everyday with my sub, u do know about that right? its great for using less

HA Yes, bl'r H.A and I are very close, almost like finkle and einhorn without the gender issues. ;)
 
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I generally put one 8mg film into 30ml of water including 27 units of benzyl alcohol.

gawd i sure hope they dont miss-read this thread and think 30 units of water for one strip. hopefully that wouldnt even work! wowza!

but you are talking about making it up ahead of time aint ya capt?? ive been thinking of making a small amount of alcohol suspension, to compare to my ROA

did anyone end up having issues doing that?? i remeber u mentioning use of a preservative at one point...
 
Zerr, I believe that, at least for me, naloxone does diminish the euphoria i get from bupe. The naloxone does not produce any negative effects or anything like that, and as far as efficiency, both subutex and suboxone equally keep me out of withdrawal. However, I can tell a major difference between when i take subutex vs. suboxone; with suboxone, I just feel normal, which is fine, but with subutex, I actually feel a high as well as not sick. This has always been the case. I have taken both numerous times, and I understand that with the prevailing views expressed here, this should not happen. I can only conclude that in my case the naloxone plays some role.
 
imo

Its a fair question considering there have been numerous posts on here saying that subutex was more enjoyable than suboxone. Only reasonable explanation for that would be the naloxone was diminishing the efficiency of the bupe.



HA Yes, bl'r H.A and I are very close, almost like finkle and einhorn without the gender issues. ;)
thats cool! :)

dude!! i was the opposite by a small fraction. i used to wonder why it seemed like when taken subL it seemed the suboxone brand tab were more effective than the subutex tabs.

once i IV'd bupe, i had both suboxone and tex around to compare. especially since back then i was skeptical u could shoot suboxone. they gave me extremely similar effects at equal doses.

i really believe its placebo... theres not much other of a choice when looking at it from a scientific way. sorta. im losing my train of thought here...
 
Zerr, I believe that, at least for me, naloxone does diminish the euphoria i get from bupe. The naloxone does not produce any negative effects or anything like that, and as far as efficiency, both subutex and suboxone equally keep me out of withdrawal. However, I can tell a major difference between when i take subutex vs. suboxone; with suboxone, I just feel normal, which is fine, but with subutex, I actually feel a high as well as not sick. This has always been the case. I have taken both numerous times, and I understand that with the prevailing views expressed here, this should not happen. I can only conclude that in my case the naloxone plays some role.

i feel you, and im not trying to find a way to debunk your theory.... but could u be specific about the doses and if u ever had both around together to compare??

i mean if u expect something to be different or think in any way like that, it CERTAINLY going to effect the way you perceive the "euphoria" that u are getting out of the tex.

EDIT: (im trying to be as quick as possible people!!)
i was the same way at first... i was so excited to get my first subutex script. thought it was more effective and everything. then one day i took a suboxone cuz i didnt have my tex on me... it was exactly the same. if anything i thought maybe the suboxone was giving me more euphoria for whatever reason. it probably wasnt... your mind set effects the euphoria from bupe more than any other opiate/opioid i can think of. thats all im trying to get at.
 
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Has anyone heard of the new "treatment option" - post subutex or suboxone? This is where it really gets fun. My Dr. tried to sell me on the idea of taking a shot of naloxone that is supposed to make it impossible to get high for a month. How in the hell are is someone going to be shot up with that much naloxone, and why would one want to? He said the stuff works on the "reward system" (his words) in the brain. Beyond that it was pretty obvious he really had not much of a clue how the shit would HELP me. Damn I can't remember the name its being sold by - Vivitrol? I need to look this shit up. Any thoughts on this?
 
i had read about buprenorphine/suboxone/subutex on bluelight for a while before i ever took either and was a complete believer in the whole "naloxone is inert in suboxone" stuff. in 2010, my wife got on suboxone, and i took it a ton; i have since then taken it thousands of times. in early 2012, i went to a rehab that used subutex, and i was completely expecting it to feel identical. i had never used subutex before then, and i was super surprised when i caught a noticeable buzz from the tex. i have since used both a ton more times (outside of the medical setting), every ROA (not plugged- but sublingual, insufflated, IV), and every time I get high off the subutex and just feel normal from suboxone. i have done this as a daily opiate dependent person, as someone not dependent on opiates, and as someone specifically using buprenorphine daily. i really do not believe it is placebo. for whatever reason, for me, there is a big difference in the way they feel.

edit:

i have done this in doses ranging from .5 mg to 4mg (i think thats what i was on in the detox/rehab place at first)--usually i use between .5-1.5 mg, snorted or IV predominantly, but i have used both a good number of times SL also
 
Has anyone heard of the new "treatment option" - post subutex or suboxone? This is where it really gets fun. My Dr. tried to sell me on the idea of taking a shot of naloxone that is supposed to make it impossible to get high for a month. How in the hell are is someone going to be shot up with that much naloxone, and why would one want to? He said the stuff works on the "reward system" (his words) in the brain. Beyond that it was pretty obvious he really had not much of a clue how the shit would HELP me. Damn I can't remember the name its being sold by - Vivitrol? I need to look this shit up. Any thoughts on this?
yes there is a thread for that

EDIT: correction. there is no meg thread for it i can find. just many other threads about it, and its been mentioned in other mega's like former bupe ones.

my dr is wanting to switch me off subs already after the 3rd visit and give me that shot. NO THANKS. i dont want to commit suicide from the possible psych effects from knowing i got that shot. my buddy got it he was a basket case for a month. i mean seriously. living in his car, going totally mental. it messes u up knowing u cant do ANY thing to get a buzz u want.

i couldnt do that. besides id rather get high off of my own self control positives... not be forced into them.

RE EDIT: its not naloxone either, its naltrexone.
 
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Oh, ok -- here we go. I was mistaken its not naloxone but Naltrexone. Whatever. Still Lame.

Watch out for this bogus bullshit as this is where the "treatment community" is heading. Sorry for the long post I hope I'm not violating any rules. Additional info can be found here
welcomefellowopiateaddicts.blogspot.com/2012/08/the-vivitrol-shot.html

To those who have not yet heard about Vivitrol or know little about it, let me explain. Vivitrol is a method of treatment for opiate addiction (and alcohol addiction as well) which comes in the form of an injection (shot). The injection is given usually once every 28 days or month and its main purpose is to help addicts remain clean by lowering the sense of cravings and wanting to use. The main ingredient in Vivitrol is Naltrexone and is something I will talk about later in this post. Some of the other things I want to discuss in this post include how Vivitrol works/is used, how successful it can be, some side effects/warnings of the drug, the process of a Vivitrol program, and whatever else I can throw at you guys. I have never used Vivitrol myself but have talked to about 4 or 5 people who are either currently on it or have used it as well as asking both my drug addiction consular and drug addiction doctor. Let's start out by talking about the makeup of Vivitrol and the history of the drug.

As already mentioned, Vivitrol's main ingredient is the drug Naltrexone. Naltrexone is classified as an opioid receptor antagonist and it should be noted that Naltrexone is not the same thing as Naloxone, which is often used to treat someone who is experiencing an opiate or heroin overdose. Naltrexone works well for opiate addicts as it can block the euphoric effects of an opiate taken to get high. Basically, when a patient is on the Vivitrol shot, they cannot get high or will at least have much more difficulty in getting high. Most people that I have talked to that have used the Vivitrol shot say that the thought that they can no longer get high makes them feel less likely to use as they feel it is pointless to spend money on not being able to get high or to get a shitty high. However, this is not say it takes away all cravings and that you can't get high or attempt to get high. I have actually had some people I know and friends of friends who have overdosed or even died by trying to get high off opiates or heroin while on the Vivitrol shot. What usually happens in these cases of people overdosing and sometimes dying is that they attempt to get high while on Vivitrol but are unsuccessful so they attempt to take more of whatever drug they are attempting to get high off. This often leads to them taking far to much and overdosing.

Vivitrol was initially used to help with alcohol dependence and was just recently approved by the FDA in 2010 in the form of the once a month shot for the use of helping with opiate addiction. Naltrexone has been studied far more for alcohol dependence than in treating opioid dependence and there are still some cloudy questions/concerns about the drug as of now. Naltrexone was approved for aiding with opioid dependence in 1984 (at that time not in once a month shot form) but hadn't really started to become popular until just recently. Members of the addiction community felt that a main advantage that the Vivitrol shot has over drugs such as Suboxone and Methadone is that the Vivitrol shot is needed to be taken only once a month rather than having to take a pill on a daily basis like you normally would if you were on a Suboxone or Methadone program. This way it is more convenient for the patient and lowers the risk of the patient being able to skip their dose if you wish to get high like some do with Suboxone or Methadone. In addition to the shot, Vivitrol also comes in the form of an implant which is implanted into the body and is needed to be replaced over a period of 1-4 months depending upon the situation. For this particular post, we will only be discussing Vivitrol in the form of the once a month shot.

Etc... more info about the FDA and what those bastards have to say follows, if you're interested.
 
i had read about buprenorphine/suboxone/subutex on bluelight for a while before i ever took either and was a complete believer in the whole "naloxone is inert in suboxone" stuff. in 2010, my wife got on suboxone, and i took it a ton; i have since then taken it thousands of times. in early 2012, i went to a rehab that used subutex, and i was completely expecting it to feel identical. i had never used subutex before then, and i was super surprised when i caught a noticeable buzz from the tex. i have since used both a ton more times (outside of the medical setting), every ROA (not plugged- but sublingual, insufflated, IV), and every time I get high off the subutex and just feel normal from suboxone. i have done this as a daily opiate dependent person, as someone not dependent on opiates, and as someone specifically using buprenorphine daily. i really do not believe it is placebo. for whatever reason, for me, there is a big difference in the way they feel.

edit:

i have done this in doses ranging from .5 mg to 4mg (i think thats what i was on in the detox/rehab place at first)--usually i use between .5-1.5 mg, snorted or IV predominantly, but i have used both a good number of times SL also

in that case... according to what u are telling me. i would bet the naloxone DID effect u for some reason. good point to bring up. and thank you for being reasonable about it too. ive been a bit edgy lately...



RE edit: AT blue1995 yeah i was just about to say its also an alcohol treatment. thats why my buddy went nuts. he didnt wanna smoke pot anymore, so he had no release. he was able to get high after about 20-something days tho. but it took a lot. i agree this shot is very dangerous in terms of causing people to OD. a few reason for that too... ugh. why not just shoot us opiate addicts and get rid of us...

id love to see how many people in positions of power would crumble if they were forced to take something like this.
like sometimes i wonder if people like putin are on opiates 24/7... they just carry the attitude of a seasoned opiate head. idk im getting off topic.
 
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either way WTF does the naloxone accomplish that Dr's and pharmacies need to push suboxone over subutex?? nothing that i can see...

its pretty obvious no? They can patent the bitch and sell it for extravagant prices. Like the new "films". Wonder why those came out when generic subs were gonna be available?

Also, naloxone is shown to reverse buprenorphine OD, but it has to be given in strong doses and many times because it wears off very quickly when iv'd. I personally thing suboxone has a slightly shittier feeling IV'd than the slightly better subutex. I believe the nalaxone has a small effect. But when it wears off so fast, it doesnt rly matter.
 
Also, that vivitrol shot as been out for a while. Old news. I wonder if sub would break through the blockade haha.
 
I feel the same -- if all this stuff does is make it impossible for me to feel the way I need to to be "normal" how the FFFFk is that helping? That sounds like the seventh circle of hell to me.
 
u got the right idea there blue... i cringed inside when my dr, who i thought was cool, said that. he also acted like subutex was a whole other medication too. i went from thinking i had found a good dr to realizing im in a sub/opiate dr money mill. and walgreens is benefiting off of it, while i despise them.

i want to go back in time so bad now, and spend all of my time chasing the proper education and degrees to get my foot in the door in the world of opiate therapy. id kill to have people take my words seriously when im speaking the f'n truth, instead of being treated like a junkie armed with "info thats just from other 'junkies' online".

ugh been a bad week i geuss.

that stupid pharamacist didnt have a clue who Dr. J was or the NAABT... she just didnt want to be out-smarted by someone who there to pick up they're suboxone script. people are ignorant as hell. especially here in Flint. arghugh!!! :! :X
 
Subscrimination- discrimination based solely on the fact that a person uses Suboxone

Subliva(sub-puddle)- accumulation of both saliva and suboxone in the mouth
 
Flint, MI. I feel for you Slum Survior. I live in central Indiana and things are probably just about the same here. The stigma I've had to face and the bullshit the pharmacies have put me through... I've spent many a day outside the dr. or CVS pissed as all get out. Those mafas - don't they get it that people on subs are trying to kick, not indulge, an addiction. Give us a fkn break sometimes and have some compassion, will ya? IMO the junkies are the only ones who know what's going on. It's our life that depends on the shit. All bullshit aside, Suboxone saved my life. When my dr. made me come off I -- HOW would you take a drug that works from a person when you're giving them other meds that are supposedly "OK" anyway? Opiate is medicine. Plain and simple. It was working for me. I was off other opiates, living a decent life, functional, reasonably content on 2mg even 1mg of sub a day. Why not another year or six months of treatment? Why can't I decide when it's time to jump off? Why is it anyone's gd business?

Subutex is great. I got ahold of one last week and made it last several days. Frankly, I was high af on the shit and I never, ever felt that way on Suboxone. Have to find another dr...
 
okay so yeah u know what im talkin bout. right on. im even on the north side of flint... a stones throw from the e-way. lovely I-75 corridor we have up here... saginaw, flint, pontiac, detroit, and then u move on to toledo in ohio. geez. they call it "automation alley". more like automatic weapon alley and drug hwy for sure!! MI to florida, even hits the Cannadian border. detroit is drug storage capital of country probably. idk. just a geuss.

and yeah those dumb fucks read some insert that RB puts in there an all of a sudden they are an expert who stands to learn nothing from the patients actually taking the medicine first hand.... wow.

damn i cant believe u all are getting a different buzz from subutex, geuss im just different. on paper it could go either way without some deep ass research and info. and trials.

i know a cool dr, he just wants too much per visit, and he is down in detroit. he gave me suboxone the first script, and then was cool with tex the rest of the way. hell the suboxone dot com site says not to do that, but instead the other way around. as if the naloxone is what causes PW's or something. so much cross-info and flat out wrong info out there, thats supposed to be "official" so to speak.

i feel ya, i wanted to go back and get her name and make her life as hard as i could possibly make it for her after that. it wasnt like she was trying to be helpful, just wanted to be sure she didnt lose an argument to a sub patient. shes lucky i had benzos to smash. oh man... it was insane.

i wish i could have recorded it for you guys... it wold have been GOLD!!
 
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