Bupe Suboxone/Buprenorphine Mega Thread and FAQ v16.0

^^^

Yeah that is good advice. If you are on sub and totally withdrawal free, feeling fine, all good.. chances are you will not feel much from using.

A solid bet is to always just wait until you start feeling a little crappy again.

Mr.Scagnattie said:

It's not the naloxone that blocks. It is the buperenorphine itself. Bupe has a much much higher affinity than naloxone. It is basically a pointless addition to the bupe. It's inactive.

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Humph, yup you seem to be correct.

Naloxone is present in Suboxone to discourage misuse, only. It serves no other purpose.

Because of reports of misuse of buprenorphine by injection in other countries, the buprenorphine/naloxone combination was developed for the U.S. market. This combination was thought to decrease the potential for diversion and misuse of buprenorphine because, if injected, the naloxone should precipitate withdrawal in a patients already physically dependent on other opioids.

Sublingually, naloxone has a relatively low bioavailability while buprenorphine has good sublingual bioavailability.
Both have poor bioavailability through the GI tract. Taken sublingually, as directed, naloxone is clinically insignificant and has virtually no effect. (Except in rare cases of an allergic reaction or naloxone hypersensitivity.)

The safety and efficacy profile of sublingual buprenorphine/naloxone appears to be equivalent to that of buprenorphine alone

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http://www.naabt.org/faq_answers.cfm?ID=64

The nurse kept saying something about that being why I was having issues. But I was in acute WD's at the time and my wits were vacant. So who knows what they were talking about.

Thanks for clarifying.

So from what I just read in a nutshell , it's real purpose is to discourage IV'ing the sub.

^^^

Yeah that's what they said in the beginning. But it doesn't prevent IV use or have any effect at all. Even when IV'ed, it doesn't matter, as like I said the bupe has such a greater binding affinity, that the naloxone can't get through anyway.

This is why during a bupe OD, it literally takes about 10x the amount of naloxone typically used to reverse it.

BostonBrownTown said:

wait, did I read it wrong? I thought you said you took 16MG over the course of 3 days and your last dose was this morning at 6AM and it was 1MG only? or am I not understanding that?

what was your dose prior to the 1MG this AM? when was it taken? let's say you did 8MG yesterday and then 1MG this morning, I still think you'd be fine w/ taking something later this afternoon/tonight.

someone brought it up in the MA HEROIN THREAD that I "think" I know it all about Subox; I don't. what I do know is that I am prescribed subox and also shot dope for a long time. I also dabbled between both Subox and dope for a long time in order to maintain my habit when the money wasnt around. there were days I'd take 4MG Subox at 7AM and around 7PM that night I'd shot a gram and feel great. it all depends on your body, your experience, etc, but it seems you've taken such low doses that it shouldnt play a major part.

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Hey guys just an update.,.. I shot like 0.5g since 6 pm yesterday (it's now 11.20 pm) so that's like nearly 30 hours I'll just round it to thirty. Anyway the first shot I took was about 0.15 which is a normal one for me.. I know this batch of gear quite well it's fairly strong..well I got the usual initial rush from that amount and I was stoned but not to the full effect of what I usually would have felt. I took another shot of about 0.1 sometime during the night (I had also had a couple of beers in the pub and a good bit of coke insuffulated but it was pretty weak coke tbh) and left a little bit in a syringe for this morning before work (im guessing was about 0.05g) didnt feel any rush from that obviously but I did feel nice during work and no hangover

Anyway I had still 0.2g left this evening took that in 2 shots, it was split maybe 60/40%...again on the first larger shot I felt a nice rush and I did get stoned but not as much as I would usually..just took the last piece there (i.e. the remaining 40% roughly of the 0.2g)

Well in summary I definitely did/do feel stoned but not as much as stoned as I usually would have been from that amount of gear - maybe 2/3 the feeling I got from the same amount last weekend...I can't say for sure whether this was the bupe blocking some of it or if it is my tolerance rising a little - so I guess this report can't say much when there is that question hanging over it lmao

I had a question that I wanted to ask and it's totally gone out of my head...maybe after all I am more like 80% of what I usually would be after the gear I took hhaha

shot a half G? then shot .15? or we just talking needle. maybe cuz I smoke weed I am confused.

Following the program well. They have given me the doses for the entire weekend. I'm down to 12 mg, today is the first day at 12. when I return on Monday they will start with 10 mg. I'm not feeling the drop yet. Last night insomnia got me. I totally forgot about the clonidine( I have) I think that would have helped. I'm not taking any benzos and last night was the first night for that. So I guess thats the reason. After explaining my problem to the nurse today she came back with 3 ( 50 mg) Seroquells ( YEAH!!! I know these things make me sleep!)They can only give non addictive medicine and only short term. My choice was that or trazadone and I don't like trazodone . I found if I happen to have a beer or bourbon ( not a drinker but in detox mode sometimes have a glass or two) It will loosen all stools the following day and destroy my appetite. On top of that it doesn't do shit, that I can tell.

In good spirits , energy is ok but less than normal. Drive is fine and I am not anxious at all. They said that I won't feel the decrease in the dose until I get to 4 mg. Then they give supportive meds to help with the final weaning.

I'm sure tapering like this is a lot easier than just stopping 350 mg oxy QT.

The predicated WD's I experienced showed me a short taste of it. That 10+ hours felt like 4 months. lol

Not Again said:

No offense , but if you don't know what strips are, how do you expect to help here? You have to be knowledgeable to help. This post makes you un creditable with any advice here in this thread.

I would ask if you don't know something WELL, please don't weigh in on it...
.

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EXCUSE ME! I'm from the UK we don't have suboxone in 'strips' we have them in pill form so I have every right to ask what is meant by strips? Because we don't have suboxone in 'strips' in the UK does not mean that I cannot help BASED on MY experience. Apart from MY OWN EXPERIENCE I do NOT n have NOT claimed to be an expert. You haven't got all your facts right re suboxone yourself, but I don't come here telling you that you cannot help here, do I? You thought it was the naloxone that blocked when actually it is the bupe. Nalaxone is only there to 'stop the drug being abused.'

Someone advised me that if you take a larger dose on day 1 of your next step down, the long half life allows time for you to get over the worst of the adjustment to the new lower dose. I must admit i took a bigger dose once, out of desperation really, and by the time it had worn off i was adjusted to the new lower dose. The second time i tried this it didnt work, infact it seemed to set my adjustment back a few days. Is this one of those weird things that works sometimes for some people, but not others ?

Eveleivibe said:

EXCUSE ME! I'm from the UK we don't have suboxone in 'strips' we have them in pill form so I have every right to ask what is meant by strips? Because we don't have suboxone in 'strips' in the UK does not mean that I cannot help BASED on MY experience. Apart from MY OWN EXPERIENCE I do NOT n have NOT claimed to be an expert. You haven't got all your facts right re suboxone yourself, but I don't come here telling you that you cannot help here, do I? You thought it was the naloxone that blocked when actually it is the bupe. Nalaxone is only there to 'stop the drug being abused.'

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I'm here for help.

Not to help. If I think I learned something through my experience I will share. I am being treated by professionals, so I believe what they tell me to be true.

Also in the beginning of this thread the very first post describes all the different kinds of sub and also has nice pics.

If you want to know what strips are check the first post.

Not Again said:

I'm here for help.

Not to help. If I think I learned something through my experience I will share. I am being treated by professionals, so I believe what they tell me to be true.

Also in the beginning of this thread the very first post describes all the different kinds of sub and also has nice pics.

If you want to know what strips are check the first post.

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You're right. Didn't think to look there. Will do that now. Thank you!
Hows things going?

Evey x

OK this will be my first day with no opiods in like 6 months. Was iv'n 150-300 mg oc or h, whichever was easier to get. I took 9mg bupe across 11 days .25 being my dose for the previous four days. I have a few posts on page 12 n 13 about my induction n what not but what I'm asking here is know all the "real" dope is out of my system so theoretically I should just be WD from the lil but of bupe right? This should be a cake walk or what? I got Rx kpins stashed out the ass and a hand full of bars with easy access to more, I also gotta link on some Cali bud to help me through. Anything else to add to my "arsenal" or ideas on how best to use them. And if anyone else has come off a short bupe taper before how were the wds? thanks in advance. I dunno if it matters but I used the subs as directed most of the time. Slammed a couple .5 n .25 doses tho. Any who what do I got to look forward too? Been 28 hours since last subL .25mg bupe dose.
EDIT got mad vitamins n supplements via Thomas recipe. How long of a physical ride am I in for? I also have three unopened 8mg sub strips if ABSOLUTELY needed
EDIT: forgot to say that this post six months was a bone/relapse. Initially I got on blues, Florida go figure, then turned to iv, then found the real deal, heroin, after admit three years of abuse I went into methadone maintenance for about two years then went on sub's for about three months, basically tapering from the get go, ya history.
So what an I in for its been about 35 hours since last dose, gonna get worse or better from here?

Eveleivibe said:

You're right. Didn't think to look there. Will do that now. Thank you!
Hows things going?

Evey x

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Doing ok. Apologizes for the strong words in my last post. I appreciate that you care enough to try and help. The Dr spoke to me about mood swings and I guess I had one there.

Today is my last day at 12mg. Tomorrow I will go in and they will adjust it to 10 mg and I will take that for 3 days.

I'm not feeling any change when they change the dosage, which is awesome.

The good part is, my mind is over the opiates. I no longer want them. So I just have to break a physical thing.

Every time they take 2 mg away I expect something to change. But nothing does.

I keep asking if I can jump down faster and they say no. So I'm stuck on this for the next couple weeks.

I have a question if anybody can answer this::::

Last time I quit, I did it Qt and I was doing about 100Mg a day. It took me a month to get my energy level back and about the same time before I felt totally normal again.

Is this going to happen to me again? Or is this taper program supposed to avoid that?

when they take me off of the sub, will I notice anything? What do I have to look forward to?

^^ im in this guys boat only with a much faster sub taper so I'm interested too

eteezy915 said:

OK this will be my first day with no opiods in like 6 months. Was iv'n 150-300 mg oc or h, whichever was easier to get. I took 9mg bupe across 11 days .25 being my dose for the previous four days. I have a few posts on page 12 n 13 about my induction n what not but what I'm asking here is know all the "real" dope is out of my system so theoretically I should just be WD from the lil but of bupe right? This should be a cake walk or what? I got Rx kpins stashed out the ass and a hand full of bars with easy access to more, I also gotta link on some Cali bud to help me through. Anything else to add to my "arsenal" or ideas on how best to use them. And if anyone else has come off a short bupe taper before how were the wds? thanks in advance. I dunno if it matters but I used the subs as directed most of the time. Slammed a couple .5 n .25 doses tho. Any who what do I got to look forward too? Been 28 hours since last subL .25mg bupe dose.
EDIT got mad vitamins n supplements via Thomas recipe. How long of a physical ride am I in for? I also have three unopened 8mg sub strips if ABSOLUTELY needed
EDIT: forgot to say that this post six months was a bone/relapse. Initially I got on blues, Florida go figure, then turned to iv, then found the real deal, heroin, after admit three years of abuse I went into methadone maintenance for about two years then went on sub's for about three months, basically tapering from the get go, ya history.
So what an I in for its been about 35 hours since last dose, gonna get worse or better from here?

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With that amount of benzos on hand and the little amount of bupe you used over 11 days I think it should be a pretty easy kick. Only use the benzos when you really need them though because you don't want to end up with a habit for them.

Not Again said:

Doing ok. Apologizes for the strong words in my last post. I appreciate that you care enough to try and help. The Dr spoke to me about mood swings and I guess I had one there.

Today is my last day at 12mg. Tomorrow I will go in and they will adjust it to 10 mg and I will take that for 3 days.

I'm not feeling any change when they change the dosage, which is awesome.

The good part is, my mind is over the opiates. I no longer want them. So I just have to break a physical thing.

Every time they take 2 mg away I expect something to change. But nothing does.

I keep asking if I can jump down faster and they say no. So I'm stuck on this for the next couple weeks.

I have a question if anybody can answer this::::

Last time I quit, I did it Qt and I was doing about 100Mg a day. It took me a month to get my energy level back and about the same time before I felt totally normal again.

Is this going to happen to me again? Or is this taper program supposed to avoid that?

when they take me off of the sub, will I notice anything? What do I have to look forward to?

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You have to expect to feel weak and shitty for a while...no one skates. Sub WD isn't horrible, but it's still WD. My major problems were depression and weakness. But it will pass, and hopefully you'll sleep ok with the use of the benzos. Try to save them for the night and DONT get a benzo habit. Keep busy and drink lots of liquids. I'm not a of big fan go useing lots of vitamins. I think they can aggravate symptoms...especially B vits. Just eat well. Stimulants like coffee can make the WD worse too. Just take it easy for a couple weeks and you'll be fine....

Not again- apology accepted I can be the same lok.
I think, but don't quote me, that you wont have much withdrawalsbecause you haven't been on the suboxone long so if you experience anything it'll be mild but I'm sure other who have gone the short taper route will give their experience soon?
Take care x

Tommyboy said:

With that amount of benzos on hand and the little amount of bupe you used over 11 days I think it should be a pretty easy kick. Only use the benzos when you really need them though because you don't want to end up with a habit for them.

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Ya I feel u on the benzo use but that proverbial hook is in me after 5 years of kpin Rx n xanax abuse before that so... One monkey at a time off my back.
Anyway I yesterday was nothing, easy maybe jus a lil lethargic but now I just woke up Im 50 hours past the last sub use n that half life is wearing off cause I feel worse today than yesterday. How long till the wds peak? Then start feeling better each day?
EDIT: I also have a decent bit of kratom but list time I came off subs n used it it was great for energy then I "needed that energy" to get through the work day n back down the road I went but if one was smart how would they use Kratom during detox n minimize dependency on that when all is said n done

ive found it took a whole week to adjust to each step down in my taper. The w/ds are very long and drawn out unforunately. But if you taper, they are managble, ie, you're not bed bound, and can do stuff, but you feel a bit uncomfortable and low in energy and horrible cold sweats, just grotty feelings really. Sorry thats not very encouraging is it, but it isnt easy to get off this stuff, allthough once your doses are low enough that you dont get high off them, it allows you to seperate out the psychological and physical aspects of dependency, so you can attempt to deal with the psychological effects of opiate sobriety, whilst your just left with the physical symptoms by the end, so you dont have to deal with both things at once which would be very hard.

I was pretty upset about my 16MG to 12MG transfer (I decided myself, not the doc) but after a week or so now I feel just as good as I did on the 16MG as I do now on the 12MG. What I did change was the fact that I take the whole 12MG in the morning rather than doing 8MG in AM and 4MG PM; even when I was taking 16MG I would like between AM and PM; but this take full 12MG at once seems to be working; or maybe my system just got adjusted to the 12MG and this is a total head game. anyone take full dosage in AM? (question is for those on high doses).

how many of you smoke weed w/ the subox? do you feel you get higher/more jammed? sometimes I dont know if I just feel HIGHER for some reason or what, but sometimes when I smoke after recent subox dosage I feel stone out of my mind. I've been smoking weed for year and year and year; so normally I dont get like that. It's the one drug I'll never give up and even have a script for; so my sub dr. understands and let's it be when I do my urine tests. cool guy.