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Eveleivibe
26-12-2013, 11:20
I drank yesterday n regret it. Drinking on suboxone is not a good idea n I wont be repeating it. I started to feel panicky n upset like I felt I was going to stop breathing then felt upset. So I read a bit of Enid Blyton to my little one n went to bed round 8-9ish. Anyway my point is drinking on suboxone is not good n I'm really accepting that when i have one drink I can't stop. I had 12 mg of suboxone instead of 8 mg that I was going to do.

I'd like to apologise if I've dumped down anyone's throat re my dosage. I want people to respect the path of recovery that I've chosen but I should also respect that others are not always going to agree. If someone says they think 12mg is too high then that's their opinion n not an attack on me. Sorry I haven't around but yesterday was family day.

Take care,
Evey xxxx

Tommy n Mr. Please take no notice of what I said re tapers. I was stressed out n shouldn't have taken that out on thread. I've a break now n tbh you're right it's much better than all the questions like "how long can I stop sub before using dope again" n it's nice to help people too.

THE_REAL_OBLIVION
26-12-2013, 14:33
^^^^
Weird. All I get is more headaches (later after drinking and the next day...)

My sub clinic docs are now all pretty fine with me and don't even do piss tests with me anymore since I have all 6 privileges a week. They know I am truly a pain patient (migraines, TMJ, trigeminal neuralgia, yes, all at once). I also know doctors are not really hung up about Tramacet/Zytram (no pure tramadol unless long duration obviously in .ca). I hear this stuff works over suboxone ? How can it be ? I know my neurologist or even they at the sub clinic (which employs the same docs as the pain clinic next door in the hospital) could probably give me some Tramacets because of how it disregards bupe.

How can it do that ?

Eveleivibe
26-12-2013, 14:52
I'm not sure, the real oblivian. I think Tramodol is a synthetic opiate (sorry if I have this wrong) with antidepressant componants. But I'm not sure it works over suboxone or not. However other members will be around soon who may know n be able to help you out.

Takecare,
Evey

THE_REAL_OBLIVION
26-12-2013, 14:58
bupe, stadol (which I have in spray...docs dont know), demerol and a ton of things are synthetic opioids. You probably mean it is an atypical opioid. I am aware of the SNRI properties among the 9001 receptors it seems to mess with. That one time I got some tramacet for a...embarassing problem it was fun until it wasn't.

But I'm not looking for fun, if one tramacet every 6 hours makes me migraine free I'll take it.

And yeah, tramadol looks almost exactly like effexor when you look at its molecule.

Ziggy stardust
26-12-2013, 15:09
Chris,
THIS is why you need to let things go....you misunderstand people. Not Again=NA.

He thought you were a chick and you thought he was narcotics anonymous. Your Even!

Oh...and I thought you were Chistina too!

RTrain
26-12-2013, 17:55
I'd like to change my username, too. It just made this up on a whim to access certain parts of the forum that you have to register to see. I would've been more creative or came up with something better if I fore saw myself getting involved in the forum.

BostonBrownTown
26-12-2013, 17:56
bupe, stadol (which I have in spray...docs dont know), demerol and a ton of things are synthetic opioids. You probably mean it is an atypical opioid. I am aware of the SNRI properties among the 9001 receptors it seems to mess with. That one time I got some tramacet for a...embarassing problem it was fun until it wasn't.

But I'm not looking for fun, if one tramacet every 6 hours makes me migraine free I'll take it.

And yeah, tramadol looks almost exactly like effexor when you look at its molecule.

Tramadol - Ultram.. would def. work for pain relief. there are a few peeps in my sub class that take both the bupe/ultram. I do remember during my jail/in-house days that we'd pass ultram around as if it was dope; that was the drug to get on the inside. ha. if you've been off your dope, real opiate, whatever, for a while, then tramadol/ultram will surly give you that buzz. I was at least close to a year sober when I took the tramadol/ultram and felt something off it. nowadays it wouldnt do a damn thing considering the bupe I am on and the tolerance I am coming from.

BostonBrownTown
26-12-2013, 18:02
I drank yesterday n regret it. Drinking on suboxone is not a good idea n I wont be repeating it. I started to feel panicky n upset like I felt I was going to stop breathing then felt upset. So I read a bit of Enid Blyton to my little one n went to bed round 8-9ish. Anyway my point is drinking on suboxone is not good n I'm really accepting that when i have one drink I can't stop. I had 12 mg of suboxone instead of 8 mg that I was going to do.



didnt work well, huh? I never had a problem drinking while on bupe; then again, I barely drink. I may have thrown down 2-3 beers but nothing crazy. never felt sick or had an upset stomach while drinking w/ bupe. I drank heavy when use dope many times as well and never had problems aside from the black out and not having a fucking clue what is happening; but that is pretty standard when it comes to dope/alcohol.. prob xanax, too. maybe even coke those nights.

but just two nights ago I was out w/ the new girls fam. and had 3-5 beers and all was cool.

LET ME ASK THIS (you'd think I should know by now) - WHAT DOES NOT GO GOOD W/ BUPE!? what are drugs/drinks/food/whatever that will not be good w/ your bupe? if any? are there any certain things that will just get you sick as a dog if you take it w/ bupe? I've been taking bupe for a long time now (even while using) and never had any problems but who knows, maybe I am missing something.

Eveleivibe
26-12-2013, 18:49
In some ways I'd like to change my username but as it means making a new profile I don't wish to do that as I have a few warnings n infractions (for being naughty in the past) I feel that would be cheating n wrong as others who change their profile don't get that luxury.

Re suboxone - when I was on 8 mg I used to drink eith a bottle of vodka/gin a night or 2-3 bottles of wine per night n was completely fine. But yesterday I drank on 12 mg suboxone n ended up with a huge headache n feeling panicky n short of breathe feeling (hard to explain. I also went from feel usually warm to really cold similar to when I was in withdrawal n burst into tears for no reason. I then made myself sick n throw my tea. Which didn't bother me as a few less calories.

I still read a few chapters of Enyd Blyton to my little one as why should she miss out for my stupidity???

Now I'm determined that I will soon be off suboxone this year.

Evey.

Ziggy stardust
26-12-2013, 19:09
Tramadol - Ultram.. would def. work for pain relief. there are a few peeps in my sub class that take both the bupe/ultram. I do remember during my jail/in-house days that we'd pass ultram around as if it was dope; that was the drug to get on the inside. ha. if you've been off your dope, real opiate, whatever, for a while, then tramadol/ultram will surly give you that buzz. I was at least close to a year sober when I took the tramadol/ultram and felt something off it. nowadays it wouldnt do a damn thing considering the bupe I am on and the tolerance I am coming from.

I had tramadol as a "comfort med" when getting off suboxone. It didn't do a damn thing for the WDs. Nothing! I'd take 4 or 6 and couldn't feel any relief from WD. Kratom worked better. The thing that really saved my ass this time was Nerontin.
I read a book called Brain In Balance and the Dr who wrote it uses Nerontin allot with the hardcore dope addicts he treats in San Francisco. I'd recommend this book to anyone kicking opiates.
I'm curious about the implant...I think it's naltrexone. Anybody tied it here? It's supposed to reduce cravings. How exactly does that work?

stray cat
26-12-2013, 21:01
i have no personal experience with naltrexone or the naltrexone implant, and someone with some firsthand experience can prob add a lot to this discussion, but i guess it can reduce cravings by occupying the opioid receptors. a doctor told me that there are three things they can legally offer to help get off opiates which work on the opiod receptors: methadone as a full agonist, buprenorphine as a partial agonist and naltrexone. he almost made it sound like a form of ort, which i had never heard anyone classify it as, and i don't think it would help with withdrawal, but maybe it could help longterm with cravings, depression, etc.? i don't know, but i'm curious as well. obviously it has a strong blocking mechanism.

RTrain
26-12-2013, 21:04
^I believe the naltrexone works to control cravings the same way as the antagonist effects of buprenorphine....that is it fill up receptors but doesn't activate them, which stops cravings for some reason. That is the extent of my knowledge, though.

Mr.Scagnattie
26-12-2013, 21:57
Yeah that claim that naltrexone will eliminate cravings but, I know a lot of people on it who said it didn't do anything like that for them. All it did was block all opiates, and that fact, (knowing you can't get high anyway) was a deterrent. So even if you had a craving, you know you cant get high, so you just stop thinking about it.

I have also heard of a lot of negative side effects from naltrexone too. Things like depression, headaches, etc.

Eveleivibe
26-12-2013, 22:49
Like Me.scagnattie, I have heard some negative feedback re naltrexone but I have also heard some posivute feedback too just research it thoroughly first as this is your recovery. I have heard that naltrexone n naltrone act similarly but have not done any extensive research on drugs/ opiates due to other commitments so please don't quote me. Look on http:scholar.google.com for proper studies re naltrexone you you can balance up the evidence n critiques of study like you're having to write an essay on it.

That may seem extreme but as I've said this is your recovery.

Good luck n sorry I can't be any further help to you.

EDIT
Looking for some articles through uni page Found a good article but won't allow me access so look for a study titled "Favorable Mortality Profile of Naltrexone implants for Opiate Addiction" it compares mortality of patients using buprenorphine with patients using naltrexone.
for abstract: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/10550880903435988#.UryagoFFDrc

here's another:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3223377/
Haven't read this all as having a baileys but by sounds of it there was not enough subjects to really class this as complete accurate but good for a starters

Hope this helps somehow.

Ziggy stardust
26-12-2013, 23:02
I've heard it blocks natural endorphins...and that's what causes depression..that's why I've never been tempted to use it.
So what's the advantage of it over something like suboxone? At least with Sub your partially stimulating the receptors...not just blocking them.
Is there a WD off naltrexone? Is that the difference?
I've got some Revia pills that I was given during alcohol detox yrs ago. I've been tempted to try a tiny bit after reading about the advatantages of low dose naltrexone..but I still don't really understand how it suposto to really work to curb cravings.

Tommyboy
26-12-2013, 23:42
I've heard it blocks natural endorphins...and that's what causes depression..that's why I've never been tempted to use it.
So what's the advantage of it over something like suboxone? At least with Sub your partially stimulating the receptors...not just blocking them.
Is there a WD off naltrexone? Is that the difference?
I've got some Revia pills that I was given during alcohol detox yrs ago. I've been tempted to try a tiny bit after reading about the advatantages of low dose naltrexone..but I still don't really understand how it suposto to really work to curb cravings.

I think the not having withdrawals is the advantage. When I went to get on subs I had been given a naltrexone script from the nurse practitioner a month prior, and the sub doctor said he liked naltrexone for his patients better, but I had a bad experience with it so chose the suboxone. I can see why he liked giving his patients the naltrexone over subs, because the two times I saw him the waiting room was filled with people in withdrawals bitching about the waiting time.

With the naltrexone, you really need to be clean a good week or two before starting it. Even if there are some metabolites of another opioid in your system you will go into withdrawals from the naltrexone. I had been clean for like 10 days, then took a single 2mg dose of suboxone, then 5 days later the naltrexone, and was put into precipitated withdrawals. I first felt it in my stomach, and then I was extremely irritable. I threw up, and then my body clenched up so bad that I could only get relief when I fully stretched out my whole body, but still didn't sleep a wink for 3 days until I got high. I will say that I didn't really crave anything the first few days, probably since I knew the drugs would be blocked.

Eveleivibe
26-12-2013, 23:56
Naltrxone also helps with alcohol withdrawal by the sounds of things.

Ziggy stardust
27-12-2013, 02:13
Yeah that claim that naltrexone will eliminate cravings but, I know a lot of people on it who said it didn't do anything like that for them. All it did was block all opiates, and that fact, (knowing you can't get high anyway) was a deterrent. So even if you had a craving, you know you cant get high, so you just stop thinking about it.

I have also heard of a lot of negative side effects from naltrexone too. Things like depression, headaches, etc.

I think like you and Tommy said, psychologically knowing that taking a opiate won't do anything if your on Naltrexone would somewhat dampen cravings. If you were taking the pills, you could just skip taking it, but if you've got a implant or monthly shot and you know you can't get high I'd think you'd just stop obsessing over it.
The Wiki page says it doesn't curb cravings....I thought it did, in the same way sub does...by occupying opiate receptors.
Thanks for the input guys!

THE_REAL_OBLIVION
27-12-2013, 02:51
I was asking if Tramacet or Zytram XL (canadian extendend release tramadol) would work while still taking suboxone, not after being off it.

Anyway, this issue is kinda moot now as I expect real full agonists to be given to me due to a troubling diagnosis I was given today...happy holidays woo...

BostonBrownTown
27-12-2013, 04:53
we can say it blocks "cravings" all we want but I have 3 "friends" on it and they use constantly still. they look at me as if bupe is still an opiate and they are truly trying to get off the dope but yet they relapse every other week. its not doing shit. plus they are on a daily pill rather than monthly shot. even the 1 on the monthly shot uses 3 weeks in and hard the 7th day before the next shot. they use that schedule to help save money while using; but the urge is still there. thats why I enjoy my bupe. no urge, no trouble.. so far, at least.

chrisinabox
27-12-2013, 08:43
Chris,
THIS is why you need to let things go....you misunderstand people. Not Again=NA.

He thought you were a chick and you thought he was narcotics anonymous. Your Even!

Oh...and I thought you were Chistina too!

Yeah, thinking NA = NotAgain didn't even pop up in my head when replying, my bad on that.

No, I did not think he was narcotics anonymous, I thought YOU, ziggystardust, said I had a beef with NA, which I understandably, and mistakenly, thought was narcotics anonymous, which is why I was like 'wtf', because it didn't make the slightest bit of sense.

Everybody misunderstands people at times, I am no different, but looking over the posts that I made and NOtAGain made, he misunderstood way more than I did. Fuck, it's like most of the people in this thread that post often are in a fucking circlejerk here.

Ouch, that last part really hurt..

Eveleivibe
28-12-2013, 00:44
Lets all chill eh :). Does anyone have any questions re: suboxone? I'll help any way I can. Seems dead at mo. Is everyone ok?

A question - if I've been on suboxone for seven months what am I looking at in terms of withdrawal when I jump at 2 mg? Also if I jumped at 12 mg what would I expect?

PKPro
28-12-2013, 03:29
Has anyone here had any experience with intranasal zubsolv? Just got switched to this today and would be very interested to hear of anyone's experiences with this particular kind of bupe/nal pill snorted. It says you shouldn't break it but I've done other meds which said the same and they worked just fine broken up and in my nose... So what's the deal with this stuff?

RTrain
28-12-2013, 05:01
^I haven't heard anyone mention Zubsolv on here yet. The active ingredients are the same, so I don't see why you couldn't snort them. What is the ratio of Bupe/naloxone in them?

PKPro
28-12-2013, 05:10
It's pretty much the same, although it's got the weirdest dosage I've ever seen in a pill in my life. (5.7/1.4 bupe/nal) apparantly they have a higher bioavailability somehow and the 5.7 sublingual gives the same plasma level as an 8mg suboxone. I just took my first one, snorted a approx. a quarter and I'm very pleased to report that not only does if work intranasally, it tastes 1000x better and I'm actually buzzing off of it! Can this be possible? Is this real life? I feel like I just scored the jackpot!

P.S. I've heard that the other generics are hard to break up and snort, Zubsolv breaks up incredibly easy and it has a pleasant menthol burn kinda like kpins do! Yum! Highly recommended to anyone who dislikes the strips!

Tommyboy
28-12-2013, 08:31
A question - if I've been on suboxone for seven months what am I looking at in terms of withdrawal when I jump at 2 mg? Also if I jumped at 12 mg what would I expect?

Jumping at 12mg would be worse than just about any heavy heroin kick, and the acute withdrawals would last about 2 weeks, with days 3-5 being the worst. You would not sleep at all during the first week, won't be able to eat, having horrible diarrhea, be extremely irritable, and have horrible anxiety, night sweats, restless legs, and possible suicidal thoughts / tendencies. When I kicked at that dose it was 2 weeks before I was able to do anything productive, I lost over 20 lbs from not being able to eat a thing, and I lost my mind from not being able to sleep, and that was with a fresh xanax script that I had at my disposal. Things started getting better around the 8 day mark, but it wasn't until around the two week mark that I was really starting to feel better, and the 1 month mark that I was getting more than 5 hours of sleep a night, and could finally start living my life as usual.

At 2mg it would be less intense, but you will still have insomnia for a while, the restless legs, achy body, anxiety, no appetite, diarrhea, and pretty much everything I mentioned before with the 12mg/day kick. But instead of it being that intense for the first two weeks, it would be more like 8-10 days, and not quite as intense but definitely hellish until you start getting some sleep after that first week. That's why it's advised that you taper down to 0.5mg or below before jumping off of it if you've been on it for longer than a month. A slow taper down to a lower dosage will allow for your body to adjust and feel normal with just a very small opioid dosage in it, so going from a low dose to nothing will be a lot easier than a higher dose to nothing. Jumping at 2mg would be like stopping after tapering down to 800mg of codeine a day, but worse since it's in you 24/7 as opposed to a codeine dose that wears off during the day and allows for your system to approach baseline. You also have to consider that this would be what you tapered down to, so all of that other time would be like having doses way higher than 800mg of codeine a day in it.

The reason why the withdrawals from prolonged daily use of suboxone are so bad are because you have had a high dose of a very potent opioid in you 24/7 for 6+ months, so your body had adjusted to operate as 'normal' with that drug in its system, so when you stop it your body gets shocked as it struggles to adjust to operating as 'normal' with zero of that potent opioid in it after being so used to it for all that time. With shorter acting opiates/opioids there are peaks and troughs in the opiate levels in your system, and so it still has a good grasp of how to function properly without the opiates, hence the shorter duration of the withdrawals from shorter acting opiates as your body just needs to adjust to operating without that quick, short spike in opiate levels that it was getting once a day or what have you.

Eveleivibe
28-12-2013, 12:38
I've heard of subsolv on here. Apparently they taste like mints. I'd those instead of the foul tasting tablets xxxx

RTrain
28-12-2013, 14:26
It's pretty much the same, although it's got the weirdest dosage I've ever seen in a pill in my life. (5.7/1.4 bupe/nal) apparantly they have a higher bioavailability somehow and the 5.7 sublingual gives the same plasma level as an 8mg suboxone. I just took my first one, snorted a approx. a quarter and I'm very pleased to report that not only does if work intranasally, it tastes 1000x better and I'm actually buzzing off of it! Can this be possible? Is this real life? I feel like I just scored the jackpot!

P.S. I've heard that the other generics are hard to break up and snort, Zubsolv breaks up incredibly easy and it has a pleasant menthol burn kinda like kpins do! Yum! Highly recommended to anyone who dislikes the strips!


IDK but I will likely need to hit a Suboxone dr up soon and would love to try these things. I was reading about them elsewhere and how the pills dosage was someway determined as the optimal dose for its purposes.

BostonBrownTown
28-12-2013, 21:15
I have no problem w/ taste of strips of generic white pills that I am prescribed. It's become "normal" to suck on a white pill every morning. taste doesnt bother me at all. i remember I USED TO USE IT AS AN EXCUSE to get high, saying that the taste makes me throw up and that me shooting this dope just makes way more sense. turns out I was wrong.

PKPro
28-12-2013, 22:25
Eveleivibe, RTrain: I highly suggest you try em, they're leagues better! I'm so happy with them so far!

Eveleivibe
29-12-2013, 01:10
Everytime I drink, since I've been put on 12mg, I am sober within a quick while - is this normal?

KKPro - I'd love to but in the UK you get what you're given lol. I'm on what's called the NHS n I asked for sub because my friend, Jan, said ut worked for hersuboxone helped her y'see so now I've been put on the suboxone tabs. Jan was a good person n she was on suboxone for four years n helped her. We both had codeine addiction. I'm so very grateful to her for getting me on suboxone.

Take care,

Evey xxxx

PKPro
29-12-2013, 01:53
Ahh I see, that's unfortunate... =\

My doctor didn't think twice when I asked to get switched. She is super supportive!

BostonBrownTown
29-12-2013, 04:14
so I just ask my Dr. if I can get subsolv because I heard it taste better? how do you go about making the switch. never had to and dont plan nor need to, but would like to know how one does.

BlueHues
29-12-2013, 05:33
Its the exact same drug, how much better could it really be?
Buprenorphine isn't exactly the most exciting drug out there. A 55 gallon drum of it wouldn't even excite me!
If the bioavailability is a little better, but it does the exact same thing, is it really worth switch because of the taste?
The price would be my main issue.

Tommyboy
29-12-2013, 05:43
so I just ask my Dr. if I can get subsolv because I heard it taste better? how do you go about making the switch. never had to and dont plan nor need to, but would like to know how one does.

The Zubsolv actually has a higher sublingual BA compared to suboxone, so the drug itself comes in doses other than 2, 4, and 8 mg. It might be a hassle finding a dose that works the same for you as your current dose (although at higher doses you probably wouldn't notice a slight change in the dose you are getting) so you may want to stick with what you are taking now as it seems as though you are happy with where you are in your treatment.

For patients being switched between ZUBSOLV sublingual tablets and other buprenorphine/naloxone products dosage adjustments may be necessary. Patients should be monitored for over-medication as well as withdrawal or other signs of under-dosing.
The differences in bioavailability of ZUBSOLV compared to SUBOXONE tablet requires that different tablet strengths be given to the patient. One ZUBSOLV 5.7/1.4 mg sublingual tablet provides equivalent buprenorphine exposure to one SUBOXONE 8/2 mg sublingual tablet.
When switching between SUBOXONE dosage strengths and ZUBSOLV dosage strengths the corresponding dosage strengths are:

http://imageshack.com/a/img19/5052/ing5.png
(source (http://www.zubsolv.com/pdf/zubsolvFullPI-patient.pdf#1))

There is also this guide for making the switch from Suboxone to Zubsolv:

http://imageshack.com/a/img401/8996/9rpc.png

Do not switch from ZUBSOLV to other medicines that contain buprenorphine without talking with your doctor. The amount of buprenorphine in a dose of ZUBSOLV is not the same as the amount of buprenorphine in other medicines that contain buprenorphine. Your doctor will prescribe a starting dose of buprenorphine that may be different than other buprenorphine-containing medicines you may have been taking [source (http://www.zubsolv.com/)].
This last quote is basically just paraphrasing the info that I quoted in the beginning of my post. It's all important information to have though, especially since Zubsolv is becoming more widely prescribed.

BlueHues
29-12-2013, 05:52
^It's funny, they're comparing the zubsolv to the suboxone tablets, but I heard that the bioavailability of the strips was about 1/3 higher. I wonder if the BA of the strips and the Zubsolv tablets are actually pretty close? Hmmm

It's easy enough to just take more Suboxone if you need to...If it's so different that it actually makes me feel like I'm high, I'll make the switch....although I highly doubt it's that much better! That kind of thinking is the whole reason I ended up on maintenance in the first place!

PKPro
29-12-2013, 07:14
I guess some clarification is in order:

Dosage: one 5.7mg pill = one 8mg strip because of orexos new patented delivery system which increases blood plasma levels of bupe somehow.

Price: Zubsolv is the cheaper alternative, orexo just started selling these so they are cheaper so as to compete with suboxone. Which is awesome because they are better IMO. But some people prefer the strips, it's all personal preference in the end.

Switching: I got my script of zubsolv and had taken suboxone the day before and in the morning before my appt. I took zubsolv at night the same day, no problems. There is no reason why you wouldn't be able to do so aswell. Think of these as menthol suboxone tablets, which *might* work better for you. Like I said, it depends. They worked great for me!

I switched because suboxone has multiple problems in my case, taste being the least important. Suboxone irritated my mouth, made it numb, killed my taste buds and gave me headaches. None of these side effects have happened since I made my switch! Awesome!

As far as catching a buzz goes this also has mixed results, some are like me and swear that it's stronger, some say it's not. When I want to catch a buzz I'll break off a quarter of my pill and snort that and take the rest normally, that usually works quite well with me. I'd compare it to a mild, pleasant oxy buzz, I haven't snorted enough to see how deep the rabbit hole goes so I haven't nodded on this per se, but I definitely notice a glow and my body relaxes, especially the legs! It feels pretty damn good and that's saying something since suboxone did nothing but make me feel "normal".

BlueHues
29-12-2013, 07:30
^I have no doubts that it works, or that the BA is higher....In the end it's the same drug though. If nothing else, I'm glad those ass-fucks at Reckitt Benckiser finally have some competition for their little monopoly...

It really makes you wonder if that whole appeal with the FDA to not allow anything but strips because of "safety reasons" was really just a ploy to prevent this stuff fro coming out...I hope even more companies get involved...I hope it becomes like hydrocodone and alprazolam, where 10 different pharm companies are putting it out! Of course, that's when someone comes out with a completely new maintenance drug that everyone will want to be on, and the whole thing will start all over again!

Eveleivibe
29-12-2013, 14:52
^I have no doubts that it works, or that the BA is higher....In the end it's the same drug though. If nothing else, I'm glad those ass-fucks at Reckitt Benckiser finally have some competition for their little monopoly...

It really makes you wonder if that whole appeal with the FDA to not allow anything but strips because of "safety reasons" was really just a ploy to prevent this stuff fro coming out...I hope even more companies get involved...I hope it becomes like hydrocodone and alprazolam, where 10 different pharm companies are putting it out! Of course, that's when someone comes out with a completely new maintenance drug that everyone will want to be on, and the whole thing will start all over again!

Wow interesting point you're making here. Is the company who produce subsolv not the same company who produce suboxone/ subutex then? I personally do not know much about the films/ strips as I'm in the UK n we are given suboxone in tablet form. Excuse my ignorance but How are they saying the films are more protected from children getting them?
However, slightly off-topic but it's interesting how in the USA most of your pills are in bottles whereas ours are set in a plastic thing that you have to pull open with your finger nail. The bottles seem safer as they have the child lock on them, right?

Look I'm sorry I snapped at you a few weeks ago. You've the right to your opinion n I shouldn't have jumped down your throat for not agreeing that I shouldn't be on suboxone for a codeine addiction. I did read that hydrocodone was twice as strong as codeine not several times stronger however it was from an website no indication of evidence so if I'm wrong on that I apologise. I did go through a lot with my addiction n it really upsets me when I feel that people minimalise it. I'd like people to take in mind that in the UK we are only really prescribed codeine/ DHC n that these are really strong opiates to us.

Take care,

Evey xxxx

BostonBrownTown
29-12-2013, 15:06
I guess some clarification is in order:

Dosage: one 5.7mg pill = one 8mg strip because of orexos new patented delivery system which increases blood plasma levels of bupe somehow.

Price: Zubsolv is the cheaper alternative, orexo just started selling these so they are cheaper so as to compete with suboxone. Which is awesome because they are better IMO. But some people prefer the strips, it's all personal preference in the end.

Switching: I got my script of zubsolv and had taken suboxone the day before and in the morning before my appt. I took zubsolv at night the same day, no problems. There is no reason why you wouldn't be able to do so aswell. Think of these as menthol suboxone tablets, which *might* work better for you. Like I said, it depends. They worked great for me!

I switched because suboxone has multiple problems in my case, taste being the least important. Suboxone irritated my mouth, made it numb, killed my taste buds and gave me headaches. None of these side effects have happened since I made my switch! Awesome!

As far as catching a buzz goes this also has mixed results, some are like me and swear that it's stronger, some say it's not. When I want to catch a buzz I'll break off a quarter of my pill and snort that and take the rest normally, that usually works quite well with me. I'd compare it to a mild, pleasant oxy buzz, I haven't snorted enough to see how deep the rabbit hole goes so I haven't nodded on this per se, but I definitely notice a glow and my body relaxes, especially the legs! It feels pretty damn good and that's saying something since suboxone did nothing but make me feel "normal".

ha. this just sold me on bringing it up on my next meeting which is next week. i will def. add this to the Iphone calender and for it to be mentioned during the meeting. is that sick? is that the user in me? as said before, the generic white bupe have been fine for me, but if something taste better and comes w/ a small buzz, why not?

PKPro
29-12-2013, 21:21
Eveleivibe: the strips come in a special packaging that young kids would have a difficult time opening, they have a "fold here then rip at the cut" kind of packaging... Maybe someone could link an example of this but if you google image the strips' packaging it'll maybe make a little more sense... I hate the packages of suboxone... Although my zubsolv come in a similar packaging... Except it's a blister package which you have to rip out first... After that it's the same process, fold and rip.
*note* they put my strips in a child proof bottle, so it was... Double child proof. Haha, overkill? Maybe..

bostonbrowntown: best of luck bud, there's nothing wrong with finding a better substitute for you! It's the reason why I switched as well! ^.^

*edit*

Suboxone packaging: http://images.ddccdn.com/pro/images/e8915258-fa94-4eda-8513-b2579cd54f71/sub01-0005-09.jpg

Zubsolv packaging: http://www.zubsolv.com/healthcare-professionals/Images/zubsolv-blister.jpg

BlueHues
29-12-2013, 21:39
IMO, being dependent on opiates sucks regardless of the dose you're on or the particular drug itself. There are some people on BL that insist that using opiates twice a week will give you a habit, which to me seems a little ridiculous. From what I've seen, it takes some time to develop true physical dependency, and when that happens...it's definitely not cause for celebration. Getting "dopesick" for the first time shouldn't be seen as a rite of passage for young drug users. I think a lot of opiate users tend to minimize people's problems with other drugs because they don't get sick. I've seen people in detox that were there for cocaine and thought, "What are you doing here?!", knowing that the obsession to use that drug can be almost as bad as the sickness we go through from opiates.

So, I wasn't trying to minimize your habit "Evey", just stating what I've found to be true about buprenorphine: It can be every bit as hard to stop as the drug you were trying to get off in the first place.(not sure if this sentence makes sense)

As far as being maintained on it...sure! It's a hell of a lot easier than a typical opiate addiction to manage.

Eveleivibe
29-12-2013, 22:32
Is it messed up that I'm not frightened of suboxone withdrawal - I'm more frightened of craving opiates again?
It is messed up that when I hear people say they lost weight during sub withdrawal that it makes me want to go through it for the weight loss loss when I'm doing an MSc in Weight Management n should know better ( weight gain after it) but it still seem attractive the idea of withdrawing cause of the weight loss aspect. Maybe I'm insane.

I know I need to come off suboxone n being ill doesn't frighten me at all. Craving n being addicted again does..... I almost lost my family - n my mind. Who else has seriously agonising constipation wovs never to do it again n with 2 mins of release (trying to put it politely) is downing pills like that had not happened. Wtf??????

PS with me it was more psychological than physical but I'd have preferred physical anyday. For 1 people don't underrstand they think you're making it up etc i could not stop people
Thinking about codeine n I was being forced off it. I thought if I went on bupe I may not romance it tbe way I did codeine (ie never sat in the evenings taking it ending the loneliness etc etc. i may have made the wrong decision but was desparate n suboxone sounded like the answer to my prayer, 'freedom' no more craving, obsessing - I could be "me" again. I'll know one day if I made the right decision or not but I somehow need to be included. I don 't fit with people who are addicted n I don't fit with those who are not. Where do I fit????

PKPro
29-12-2013, 22:41
Welcome to the wonderful world of opiate addiction...

Eveleivibe
29-12-2013, 23:00
Been apart of it for a few years lol but thanks for welcome haha :) xxxx

BlueHues
29-12-2013, 23:10
The way people try to get off opiates reminds me of the old '80s video game "Frogger", if anyone is familiar with that.

You're a frog trying to cross rivers and roads with all kinds of obstacles that kill you if you jump at the wrong time...You make it to the other side and a new level starts and it's even harder...You can't win the game, it just gets harder and harder until you die....At least you can actually get to the other side and stay off opiates in real life.

Going from one opiate to another is like hopping from lily pad to lily pad, the goal being that you taper everything as you go and try to get to the other side with as little suffering as possible...but as long as you're still taking an opioid of some kind, you're really still just floating on another lily pad....I've yet to hear of anyone who was truly dependent on opiates finding a formula to completely dodge the WDs....

Someone might go:
Heroin
methadone
buprenorphine
kratom
loperamide
low dose benzos with clonidine
off

I've never had all those things at my disposal to really know if it makes it that much easier, but even getting mildly dopesick this past week reminded me of how bad it sucks! In reality, it's not a long time that you have to suffer...although suboxone wd is like a marathon...or fasting for a month...It's pretty hardcore! The good news(or the bad news) is that you can end it at any time if it becomes to tough by simply taking more bupe....but that's like hitting the reset button and being back on the first lily pad!

This is just how it feels for me, I've been through this shit so many times it seems, but if I really look at it....I've pretty much been dependent on opiates for the vast majority of the time since I first used them...It gets tiresome...there's not many people I've met who've just put them down and never looked back...It's a fuckin son of a bitch!

Eveleivibe
29-12-2013, 23:19
I've had a drink so lets be honest. I wanted opiates in me. Was being forced of codeine. Theres suboxone FREE--- a chance to have to opiate in me every day without losing my family, getting in debt. A good, STRONG opiate that blows codeine out of the water, that is legal I put in me n don't have to obsess. Have my cake n eat it. Who wouldn't?????

Ziggy stardust
29-12-2013, 23:26
The way people try to get off opiates reminds me of the old '80s video game "Frogger", if anyone is familiar with that.

You're a frog trying to cross rivers and roads with all kinds of obstacles that kill you if you jump at the wrong time...You make it to the other side and a new level starts and it's even harder...You can't win the game, it just gets harder and harder until you die....At least you can actually get to the other side and stay off opiates in real life.

Going from one opiate to another is like hopping from lily pad to lily pad, the goal being that you taper everything as you go and try to get to the other side with as little suffering as possible...but as long as you're still taking an opioid of some kind, you're really still just floating on another lily pad....I've yet to hear of anyone who was truly dependent on opiates finding a formula to completely dodge the WDs....

Someone might go:
Heroin
methadone
buprenorphine
kratom
loperamide
low dose benzos with clonidine
off

I've never had all those things at my disposal to really know if it makes it that much easier, but even getting mildly dopesick this past week reminded me of how bad it sucks! In reality, it's not a long time that you have to suffer...although suboxone wd is like a marathon...or fasting for a month...It's pretty hardcore! The good news(or the bad news) is that you can end it at any time if it becomes to tough by simply taking more bupe....but that's like hitting the reset button and being back on the first lily pad!

This is just how it feels for me, I've been through this shit so many times it seems, but if I really look at it....I've pretty much been dependent on opiates for the vast majority of the time since I first used them...It gets tiresome...there's not many people I've met who've just put them down and never looked back...It's a fuckin son of a bitch!

So true! I've been known to say that getting off of one opiate and going to a other one like methadone or sub, is just changing deck chairs on the Titanic...but I like your Frogger one too.
It does get tiring...and twords the end it's just boring. Opiate and benzo WDs are in a league all their own.

Mr.Scagnattie
30-12-2013, 14:31
I've had a drink so lets be honest. I wanted opiates in me. Was being forced of codeine. Theres suboxone FREE--- a chance to have to opiate in me every day without losing my family, getting in debt. A good, STRONG opiate that blows codeine out of the water, that is legal I put in me n don't have to obsess. Have my cake n eat it. Who wouldn't?????

People who actually want to get clean?

Eveleivibe
30-12-2013, 16:17
Mr.scag that's the thing I didn't at the time not deep down. I felt that people were trying to control me. I hoped that people who wanted me off opiates were no longer here. I just wanted codeine. I know that sounds bad but I was messed up I even told someone who had recently lost their mam that she was lucky her parents were dead. Thats how messed up in the head I was due to this addiction. I just wanted codeine n felt that life was unbearable without it.
My parents kept coming into my house taking it when I wasn't there, they had the postie give them my parcels n I felt controlled like a small child. I was treated like a child so I acted like one. They made me taper n I had to go there for EVERY dose.
A friend told me about suboxone n it seemed the answer to my prayers so I go onto suboxone. It was ace because it dulled out my emotions n life wasn't so intense. Then I felt extreme emptiness so started drinking heavily craving codeine n wanting to find strongers (as most people know by my stupid threads I made n regret on this section).
Then sub increased to 12 mg n things are getting are better apart from drinking over the hols - I've started liking it again :( but I will fight that.

Its like theres two of me inside this body: one that wants the high, calm, good warm feeling n the other that wants to be healthy, ripped, fit, complete me masters n get some sort of career for me n my daughter. I just wish it was more simple.

I know I have to get off suboxone but I'm really frightened because I don't want to crave opiates again n become some idiot crying hysterically because I only have so much left ot because someone has taken them. The scarey thing is that in my dreams I am addicted again but thankfully I wake up n know I'm not n everything is ok for now.

Sorry for tbe novel.

Happy 2014 everyone the sooner this year is over the better

Evey xxxx