Quitting 6 month poppy tea addiction cold turkey...

Hi everyone,

First of all, before I even post this, thank you for making this section; I am in a very dark and hopeless place right now, and I love you all for any support you provide me with, I really mean it... I don't have many friends around for support these days.

I am beginning this log of my cold turkey detox from poppy seed tea after a failed attempt at tapering (http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/681549-Tapering-off-of-Poppy-Seed-Tea?p=11657421#post11657421). I wish I had never learned of poppy seed tea; I have cold turkey'd heroin twice in the past, and I am finding this MUCH more difficult... for me, the physical symptoms are not as intense, but the mental ones are worse, and the whole experience lasts MUCH longer then heroin w/d... the furthest I have made it in my previous attempts was a week, and I still felt terrible at this time. To make matters even worse, it only costs me about 6 bucks to stay high all day with PST, and I buy them at a very popular retail store that has 3 locations close to my house. This makes it insanely challenging not to relapse...

I am currently finishing the last two credits of my university computer science degree online, while working a pretty demanding full-time summer job in my field; this has made it extremely difficult for me to quit. I have ended up spending a few days at work doing nothing (with insane depression/anxiety/lethargy/flu-symptoms), and people notice.

I am determined to stop hurting my family over this; I have promised them that if I fail at getting clean this time cold-turkey, then I will attend rehab for a few months. I really, really, don't want it to come to that. I don't want my problems becoming known to my whole extended family (some of them will never speak to me again), and I want to be able to do this myself, although I am seeing a drug councellor on the side to help as well.

I will post my progress here. I am terrified, because I know what is coming. I don't know how many more times I can handle the crippling depression before I do something terrible I really appreciate any advice, or motivation, or ANYTHING you can help me out with.

I do have a question first though: I have heard that pregabalin is very helpful for withdrawals... what do you think the chances are of me getting my family doctor to prescribe me enough just for work? I would say our relationship is decent, and he knows I am a good person and really struggling with this. Alternatively, any other ideas of medications I could ask him for (for the next week tops)? I don't want to start a new problem ending this one, but I have taken benzos before, and I do not find them addictive or crave them at all... they take away my anxiety, but I don't like the empty feeling they provide me with, so I wouldn't be worried about abuse with GABAergics.

Thank you everyone in advance. If I can do this with your support, I will make a nice donation to Bluelight, and do my best to help others struggling like I am now. Love you all

Is there anyway you can take time off work? Cold turkey opiate detox and having to work is going to make things way more complicated, near impossible. What about a medical leave of absence? Not trying to deter you, just help you be realistic.

As far as medications go, gabapentin, tramadol, clonidine, trazadone(for sleep), and immodium (loperamide) will all help. Phenobarbital or other tranquilizers such as benzodiazapines will help a bit, but be CAREFUL about cross addiction. It can and does happen to tons of people even when the new drug wouldn't be their main choice. Not fully enjoying the main drug actually leads to overconfidence and a potentially higher risk of cross addiction. So I'm not saying don't use benzos, just don't over use them or take for more than a couple weeks.

Good luck, and stay strong! You can do it!

Your greeting itself is a positive sign. Being social in any way possible is an invaluable healing tool for you right now, no matter how shitty you feel. I love you too; I don't give a fuck what you've done in the past, etc. We are brothers.

Your success will largely depend upon your ability to be grateful, to anything. Please keep this in mind.

Friends aren't as hard to find as it might seem. I'd recommend getting involved in the community - volunteering, sports, meditation.

I appreciate your candor: it indicates just how much you want to re-assert your right to sovereignty, as well as gives us a greater idea of what's going on. However, try to be mindful of opium playing on emotions: it will do what it can to fool you into thinking things are worse than they are.

Try not to think so much of money and instant happiness. I know these are two factors which drug users have spinning around their heads all the time. Rather, acknowledge tendency to obsess over these aspects. They will go with time once they're learned that their is no place for them anymore. That you have chosen to control your own life again.

You're making an investment in yourself, and those around you, socially first. The monetary aspect, that of you actually saving money in the long-run by quitting, comes along quite nicely on its own.

If you can, move. You must make all efforts to remove the substance from your presence, or its call will be that much more unbearable.

Remember: this is an investment. If you must put off your career dreams in the interest of your greater, long-term health, maybe that's a good thing. I cannot tell you what to do, but try to really think of taking care of yourself in this time of change.

Please feel free to elaborate on how it makes you feel that people are noticing you not appearing healthy.

People who quit for others are generally more successful than those who quit for themselves. Another good sign.

While it may be good that there is an incentive to quit in that you will preserve relations with your extended family, if bthey never talk to you again because you are addicted to opiates I would re-consider how valuable they really are as regards your well-being.

The worst is always the unknown.

No one accomplishes anything by themself. Not Wendy Davis, Barry Bonds, Julian Assange, whoever. You need professional help, which it sounds like you're getting. But you're right: ultimately you will be the deciding factor.

If it comes down to using or dying, you don't have to ask the relevant question. We need you, care about you, and support you.

My advice is to be entirely upfront with your doctor as to what's going on, at which point he will make a more informed decision, involving a medication, or not, than any recommendation we could give. I am inclined to not introduce more chemicals into the body, though that is your choice.

Don't feel obligated. Your real donation is your continual participation in this world.

Keep us posted. I mean it. Frequently. I will answer if no one else does. You really only need one other person in this world.

Three options
1) high dose lopermide- completely legal, cheap, easy to find, it stops physical symptoms completely, and higher doses help mental ones too
2) kratom- completely legal, pretty cheap, have to order from online though, it's a weak opiate and short lasting, so needs redosing throughout the day. It's weak but helps mental and physical well
3) Suboxone - prescription, your family may not consider it sobriety

^ these are your best options. I tried to taper off poppy pod tea with Keatom. I then switched to sub ozone. Seed and pod tea is no joke. The withdrawal will suck the life out of you for a loooong time. Be prepared.

I have cold turkey'd heroin twice in the past, and I am finding this MUCH more difficult... for me, the physical symptoms are not as intense, but the mental ones are worse, and the whole experience lasts MUCH longer then heroin w/d... the

Click to expand...

It has happened me the same exactly, no with tea but with the latex i ate or smoked, anyway it should be similar, and yeah i agree its worse than the (street sold) heroin WD, it last to appear but when it gets, after klike 24 hours isnt it?, then its so bad, and i think is going to last a lot like methadone. Thats why i switched to subuxone ( without knowing subuxone WD is so long too), but now im leaving this too, so long WD sxcks

Hi everyone,

Ohhh boooy, do I have an update. So the last time I dosed was Sunday around 11pm, and it is now Thursday morning.

Monday and Tuesday (had Monday off for Canada Day) were rough, but do-able; Monday I still felt the effects of the tea, so it wasn't that bad, and tuesday at work the lethargy was really starting to kick in (along with the anxiety and depression). By the end of Tuesday at night, the beast was really starting to get to me.

Wenesday I somehow dragged myself into work for the full day, and also managed to get 6 1m ativan pills from my GP, who knows what I have been dealing with for the past year. The anxiety was terrible, so I ended up popping an ativan around lunch (consequently did not do SHIT but stare at pictures on my computer screen), and then one more around 6pm... this killed 90% of my anxiety for the day, although I still physically felt like hell. Passed out for the night at 9:30pm as opposed to my usual time of midnight.

Today, I still feel like a pile of dog shite physically, but as of right now I have ZERO depression, and my anxiety is quite manageable I know this is likely only a wave or relief, but I really feel a lot better then I did yesterday... at this point, I can see the other side, and I think my symptoms will slowly dissipate from here. By next morning, I will be over 100 hours clean :D That is a landmark for me. I called in sick today, but I'll probably go back tomorrow.

My goal in this withdrawal was/is to avoid ANY opiates what so ever (even loperamide), and so far I have done that. I will probably hold onto my ativan supply (only 4 left) for a time where I really need it. I am feeling really good about myself right now. I was beginning to get really depressed even after getting high in the last month, and I'm so glad I can even experience a glimpse of sober contentment right now, even if it proves to be fleeting.

Thank you everyone for your support; It means a ton to me, and it does help, quite a bit. Ho-Chi-Minh, thanks for following up in this thread, and all of the advice. "Fear of the unknown" really is the worst part of this whole shitstorm. Caseface99, the only reason I didn't want to take the time off was because I went to a wedding earlier this summer, and booked two days off then... but today I caved anyway. Fuck it, my health is more important then a summer internship I guess

The rest of you guys, I have only ever cold turkey'd opiates (this is the first time Ive even gotten benzos to help). It has been hell, but I need to remember every aspect of this punishment in order to help condition myself in any way I can to avoid opiates in the future (I know you forget the pain fairly quickly, but it's just another edge what could help).

I'm going to go work on my music now. This is the first time I've felt like doing that sober in a long time. I'll report back soon. Keeping all your advice in mind!

In other news... HOLY SHIT! Literally! I just set a world record for longest and most dense... well, you know. Plugged my toilet. Had to plunge it like crazy.

Damn. I feel even better now.

^ After quitting opiates, I was so happy to have a normal digestion schedule back. It's so bad for the body to be constantly constipated.

I have been using PST for a couple years solid now, everyday. About 3lbs per day, around a gallon and a half of liquid. I have been forced into withdrawals a handful of times, the last was 48hrs ago.
I couldn't afford any seeds and in just a few hours I was in a bad place. I had nothing to fall back on, no seeds, lop.. just a couple capsules of kratom. I took them as soon as my back began to hurt really bad (I have some sort of back problem, and have yet to get it diagnosed. I have constant back pain in/around my sacrum), but they were gone in just a few hours. At about midnight, I had nothing to help me. I was ok for a while, just becoming increasingly restless. Of course, this only increased. At about 5, after what seemed to be an eternity, I found some cough syrup. I had read that it could help W/D, so i drank 2/3 of the bottle. What happened next was the most horrible withdrawals of my life.
I am not sure if it was just horrible opiate w/d, or the combo of not having any kratom, opiates, etc, or the syrup. I began to feel extreme pain ALL over my body, very intense. I could not stop moving, writhing in pain on the floor. I couldn't walk, talk, and i could barely breath. the store I get my seeds from opens at 9am, so at 815 I started to scream for my wife, screaming that I need some seeds, any seeds. We had $7, barely enough. Needless to say she was furious, extremely upset that I constantly woke her throughout the night, and that I woke her so early (It was her day off, and she had planned to sleep in till 11). I begged her crying my eyes out and finally convinced her to drive me.
The store I get them from was clean out.
I was about to eat a gun. The car ride was so bad that... I cant even describe it. Somehow, though, she found some seeds and we arrived home.
I was so tormented that I couldnt even make the tea. Keep in mind, the walking and talking were still massive issues for me. I somehow pulled it off, using a method that was completely idiotic and wasteful.
I couldnt resis and drank much more than i should have, because there was no telling when I could get more. They didnt help for hours. Once they did however, I realized how much trouble I was in. The insanity, the torment, I have no words to describe it. Opiates have hurt me before, but those w/ds yesterday were too much. 4x more than I have ever felt before.
Worst night of my life, and I can NEVER feel those again.

My point is that, the PST nearly killed me. I don;t know what to do, because I am guaranteed to feel them again. I am scared. The tea is the devil.
Please excuse my hasty and disorganized text, I just didnt know how to explain the hell I was in.

Now i am not sure if i will ever be able to bear the week of hell necessary to quit.
Gore

^Any possibility of going to a detox? That sounds like a living hell. like any hell we create for ourselves there is a way in and a way out, though. I guess the first step would be having more fear of living like this than going through WDs. My son died of a massive dose of morphine, possibly/probably from poppy pods. That should not be the way out of the hell you are in.

herbavore: I am extremely sad to hear that... Actually, part of what got me so into drugs was loosing my younger brother suddenly a few years ago. Died of a congenital heart defect with no warnings at all. Finding him grey and blue in his bed has definitely had lasting effects on my psyche.

Update:
Ironically, the day I posted my last post, I relapsed, and have been high pretty much every day since. I am an idiot, because I was past the worst part already.

Moving forward, I have a new plan: I am ordering 2.5 grams of tramadol from a domestic supplier (the smallest amount unfortunately). My plan is to - once again - cold turkey the tea, but this time I will dose 100-200mg (tops) of tramadol during the worst parts of my withdrawal. This should make things much more bearable (I get good effects from tram), and the way I see it, even if I fuck up with the tramadol, it has a FAR shorter half life then the tea. Honestly, I have cold turkey'd heroin twice before, and I found the length of misery MUCH easier to handle.

GOREBAGZZZ: This might be an option for you; I would honestly consider this trading one evil for a lesser one, which will - ultimately - be easier to get off of.

Or Kratom... Tramadol or Kratom, I will order one or the other tommorow. Which one do you think would be better suited to this task? I am dead set on at least switching poisons for a week or two before going ct; I just cannot handle the length of the PST withdrawals

Are you SURE it wasn't drinking the cough syrup that made you feel that way? Was it pure DXM, or were there other ingredients involved? Because it if had guafinesin or tylenol added into it, you might have just overdosed one of those... guafinesin especially is notorious for causing a lot of pain if you take too much, that's why I'm wondering if maybe it wasn't just withdrawal...?

I have just had a pretty scary and eye-opening experience

Today, I bought 3 packs of poppy seeds from my local source, which usually is a somewhat mild dose for me (4 packs dose not even get me into nod territory). This is only about 450 grams of seeds.

While drinking the tea, I immediately noticed that it had a stronger taste; 3 packs mixed with lime soda is usually not a strong taste at all, but this time was different... the tea tasted STRONGLY of seeds, and was much more bitter. I debated chugging the tea like I usually do for a moment, and then decided to drink half instead. Thank god I made this decision.

It has been exactly one hour since I drank the tea (empty stomach) and I am higher then I've been in ages. I only drank the equivalent of 225 GRAMS of seeds, and my breathing is labored. If I had drank the whole thing, I think I would be unconscious right now. I have been buying these same seeds on and off for around a year, and the potency of them has been consistent. This batch is suddenly 3-4x stronger then all the rest. Let this be a warning to everyone who drinks PST: You never know how strong the tea is going to be. If I wasn't so familiar with the seeds, I would have never known, and I'd be fucked right now.

...In other news:

I just bought 60 grams of Maeng Da Kratom to use for my withdrawals. I have little experience with Kratom, and so I really have no idea how to dose this (just enough for lack of w/ds). What is a standard dose for Maeng Da? I understand the potency varies a lot, but any suggestions? Thanks!

Poppy tea is pretty strong (and like your post just pointed out - known for being inconsistent)... Kratom is a lot weaker. Good for withdrawals though, and since your naive to it (it acts on a few different receptors, not sure how similar it is to poppy tea though... I don't have enough experience with tea sorry), a good starting dose is probably around 10-12 grams. I think that's like 4 or 5 tablespoons if it's powder...? And then you can taper pretty fast from there with minimal discomfort.

Honestly though, Kratom is so weak and you have such a high tolerance to the tea, that I think you'd be better off using loperamide. Buy some lope, Tagamet and grapefruit juice... drink the juice and take the Tagamet 45 min before the lope so it can cross the bbb. Just be careful with the lope... on it's own, not enough of it can cross the bbb... but when you fuck around with that mechanism it's a pretty strong opiate. You won't get the normal opiate euphoria from it, but it will help the withdrawals, and it's 100x easier to taper off of than any of the other ones.

And yeah, poppy tea doesn't fuck around. I know two people who overdosed on it from the same batch, it was too potent and they didn't know to take less than their normal dose...

xburtonchic: Thanks for the info. A few things:

1. I have a tolerance, but it's actually not that high. I know of a few people (from another drug related forum) who are using the exact same source as me, and they are dosing anywhere from 5 - 10 pounds of seeds... I only dose about a pound. I can't even begin to speculate as to the alkaloid content, but it's not that high. I've been trying to quit lately, and my tolerance is - consequently - moderately lower then it was as well.

2. I think you may be high-balling your recommendation for a dose. I've done Kratom before (with about a quarter of the tolerance I have now), and about 3-5 grams of Maeng Da had me flying. I really can't stress enough that I don't want to get high from the Kratom; I only want to use it to feel "normal". You may be bang on with the dose you have suggested, but I am going to start low regardless and work my way up. It's also worth mentioning that the source I have purchased from is supposed to be by far the best in Canada ATM, and I have gone with a premium strain of Maeng Da, which they have in limited quantity and is supposed to be the best they've ever stocked. Then again, this could all be grade A sales bullshit, and I know far less about Kratom then you probably do.

3. I am going to have to pass on your suggestion for Loperamide, although you made a good call recommending it. I can personally attest to the fact that loperamide indeed can get you high and is effective at alleviating withdrawals... however, I have had a pretty scary experience with it. Let's just say, it is EXTREMELY effective at making you not shit, and I almost ended up getting anally probed by a doctor's index finger in the ER. I should also note, that the extreme constipation from the Loperamide can often be alleviated by concurrently administering daily therapeutic doses of Polyethylene Glycol (Miralax, Lax-A-Day, etc.). In fact, I have found this to be the safest and most effective method of treating "Somniferum-Shit-Bricks bar none.

Again, thanks for the info. I guess the only real way I'm going to figure out my dosing is by Shulgin-esque Trial and error, albeit far less extreme lol.

PS. Poppy Tea is the fucking devil, and I am almost certain at this point that there are probably adverse long-term effects on ones health associated with it's use, as I have begun to notice strong physical tremors while falling asleep at night, and significant mental impairment (although this seems to dissipate after a few days of cessation).

Update (not sure if anyone is still paying attention after my long absence...):

Today I recieved my 60 grams of Ultra Maeng Da from a very reputable vendor. As such, I couldn't help but test the waters with an initial dose which is higher then I will taper on (needed to know the potency in order to guage an effective dose anyway).

I waited until the anxiety from withdrawal started to show, and then began with a good sized tablespoon serving, using the "Toss 'n Wash" method. You can definitely tell when the Kratom hits your stomach (and I can see how the feeling would bother some people), but I have a very strong stomach (never throw up) and it didn't bother me at all... a very similar feeling to when you drink a cup of strong coffee on an empty stomach.

At this dose (based on other posts, I'd estimate only around 5 grams), I experienced a full - if not 95% - reduction in my early withdrawal symptoms, and even felt a little buzzed in a nice, uplifting sort of way. For curiosities sake, about an hour later I dosed about 2/3 my initial dose. I am now pleasantly high, and based on the amount of powder I have left, there is no way my dose exceeded 8-9 grams tops.

At this point, I am both thrilled by the effectiveness of the Kratom I have purchased, as well as very optimistic for what lies ahead; the high is not overwhelming, but there is a distinct mental euphoria too it along with a nice and mild body feeling. I am positive at this point that I will be successful in using the remainder of this Kratom as a "life-line" during the worst of the following few days.

I guess my only question is: Should I order another 30 or 60 grams? I don't want to have too much on hand to avoid getting into a new habit, but at the same time, I don't want to fail in my quick taper because I did not have enough Kratom to abate the worst of the withdrawal experience.

Thank you for any responses, comments, or support! I will forever appreciate it.

LOL, well I guess this has become more of a blog then anything... Oh well.

Update:

I'm currently 48 hours with NO poppy seed tea, and I feel 120%! :D

I received my 60 grams of Maeng Da yesterday (as you know), and have been dosing about 2 - 3 times a day... unfortunately, because I don't have a scale, I've just been sticking to one heaping teaspoon of Kratom per dose for the last two doses.

As expected, I awoke this morning feeling like Muammar Gaddafi in the middle of an angry Lybian riot... a.k.a like an aborted pig fetus swimming in formaldehyde.

I dragged my sorry ass to work, and immediately consumed a heaping teaspoon of Kratom. As of right now, I feel pretty damn good; not 100%, but damn close, and full of energy. Maeng Da really is quite stimulation, even if it is quite a mild opiate. I still have quite a bit of Kratom left - about two thirds - and I will be lowering my dose even further starting tommorow.

So far - for anyone who is interested - I have come to the following conclusion about Kratom...

Kratom is GREAT for getting off opiates:

- If you need to go to work and get shit done while your in withdrawal, then I recommend a more stimulating Kratom - such as Maeng Da - as I have found it completely eliminates my lethargy, even if you still don't feel exactly 100%.

- If you plan on shutting yourself in like most people do during withdrawals (you lucky, LUCKY bastards), then it would make more sense to go with a sedating type of Kratom, like Bali.

Will continue to provide updates, more so to log my progress then anything else. Tommorow is the big day! I have ALWAYS found the third day of no poppy seed tea to be the peak of withdrawals, and always seem to feel a lot better - albeit still pretty shitty - on day 4.

So yesterday by the end of the day I was feeling pretty good about things, so I decided to throw away my remaining Kratom.

Today has been a big pile of shit. I've been at work and I have NO energy, terrible anxiety, feel like I have a cold, and my stomach WAS on fire.

Really hope that tomorrow turns out better then today. I guess I had to ditch the Kratom eventually anyhow.

Regardless though, I'm not going to fuck up this time... I've come too far, and I'm just too sick of the lifestyle. It's just a waiting game from here really.