View Full Version : (opioids) Tapering off of Poppy Seed Tea
So the time has come; a number of factors (just started seeing an amazing counsellor, tension with my family, etc.) have persuaded me to make the decision to stop using opiates. I have been through cold-turkey heroin withdrawals twice before now, and so I have decided that - fuck that - I will try my hand at tapering this time around. I also have an obscene amount of both homework and work (work a full-time summer job while finishing class) to get done, so I cannot afford to take any time off.
The seeds I get do vary in potency, but they have been more-or-less stable potency wise for the past several months. I have read of the 30% every 3 days rule, but I believe that this will require adjusting to the monumental half-life of poppy seed tea in order to be effective.
So this post is two parts really: The beginning of a log detailing my withdrawal experience (I will try and update daily), and a question... how many days should I remain at a certain dose before lowering it 30% in order to minimize withdrawals?
I really appreciate any and all support; I've been in hell the last month trying to cold-turkey this (went a week once), and I am determined to do it this time for myself, and for everyone who cares about me (who I am consequently hurting by using). Much love <3
First of all, I'm sure you'll look back on this decision as one of your better ones. I used such a preparation on and off for several periods of time at a tender age; though as I remember (I was smoking a lot of weed at this point too) the longest period during which I used it daily was two weeks, even such a comparably small habit lead to a rather torturous withdrawal. I made the mistake of using it again a couple years ago, and subsequently went through months of the horrible depression it brings. I've gone through more extended opiate withdrawal too (not heroin though). I never plan to accept opiates (or oids!) again, even in a hospital setting. I'd rather feel the pain, seriously. They're in a league of their own when it comes to enslavement.
You're right, the potency of PST varies, tremendously. Despite the relative equivalent potency of your tea to this point, the next batch you make could do nothing, or it could make you OD. See how this makes it not a good idea to taper with?
My recommendation, so that you both can taper and stay clean effectively, is to do this under a doctor's supervision, possibly with replacement therapy. I also would like to see you make a thread about your attempt at a better life in the recovery section and/or have this one moved there, as OD is primarily for people who choose to continue using drugs and the people in Recovery are very capable at giving you supplemental social support.
As I said, its been a while since I've taken an opiate, but I can still appreciate to an extent what you're doing. Good Luck!
I think PST's varying potency would make it hard to taper off. I would do lopermide of I were you. It's an otc medication but you'll have to use lots of it to help. It makes you constipated just like an opiate would, and some have said that it can get you high, but I took it myself personally, and I didn't feel anything. You're supposed to take it with PPI's like black pepper, quinine (in high doses), omaprazole, another otc, but quinidine has been found to produce respiratory depression, so if you can convince your doctor you have malaria that'd be great.
Anyway the lopermide will help with the shits regardless if you can get high on it or not, because according to your digestive system, it is an opiate. Of course there's always kratom, which will help with the WD's.
However if you want to try tapering off the PST, I think the only way to do it is use the same brand of seeds you've always been using, but use less and less of it each day.
P.S. Be careful of kratom, as it is also addictive, and lopermide is also addictive if you can find a way to get it to cross the blood brain barrier (the only reason it doesn't get you high is because it can't cross the BBB, however in large enough doses it can cross, but help from PPI's is needed)
Also I believe on bluelighter already has died from taking lopermide in high doses. It's still a WD wonder drug.
First of all, I personally find PST to be an absolute miracle drug if you can find the right quality seeds. What else has the power to take away all withdrawal (dose dependent) and even leave you with a strong opiate buzz, albeit less than H, allowing you to taper off without being sick - all completely legally at your local grocery store? Even with IV tolerance, for me $10 worth of bulk seeds (about 1 kg) will save me and leave me feeling good for 12 hours, and not sick for 24. My best advice: find the right seeds, cheaper the better. Sorry I'm not able to source I don't think, even for legal seeds. But you will find them, Find the right dose for you - preferably taking away ALL withdrawal but minimal if any euphoria. Mix a whole bunch of tea in advance and keep it refrigerated as you would methadone. It's basically cheaper legal methadone without the hassle of appointments and carries. Take it in the morning if possible and go about your regular routine. Every three days or so, lower your dose by about 150 grams of seeds. I find this to be the best method of tapering,
Now here comes the critical part which enabled me to become entirely clean. Once you are down to about 200g of seeds, do NOT take the tea the following day. Wait for any signs of withdrawal before doing anything else. Judge how uncomfortable you feel at this point. If capable of riding out the rest of mild tea withdrawals (MUCH MUCH easier than H or other potent IV opiates) by all means do it. Otherwise, go to costco or wal mart and get an 84 count of 2 mg generic Imodium (Loperamide). Costco has it for $9.99. Take about 20-30 pills (as LONG AS LOPERAMIDE IS THE ONLY ACTIVE INGREDIENT) for 40-60 mg. This should be safe. I've never had a problem even with constipation at doses triple this. It should be about the right level to hold your withdrawal symptoms that remain at bay for about 24 hours. Yes, it really does work. No, you don't need to turn your body into a chemistry lab by taking potentiators and/or PGP inhibitors. Enough drug at that dose should cross the blood-brain barrier to ease all withdrawal symtoms once again, only now you are off ALL real opiates (morphine) without becoming sick. If you need slightly more, do it but do not go over 80 mg per day. Once again, you will quickly find the right amount that will keep you healthy. Not get you high at all, but take away cravings as well as withdrawal.
At this point, lower your dose by 10 mg (5 pills) every 24 hours. Do not double dose. Eventually, you'll feel more or less completely normal with ten pills or less. Congratulations - you've more than likely managed to come off a severe addiction without doctor intervention or paying exhorbitant witnessing fees. Once you feel normal with just a few pills per day, continue this as long as you feel it to be psychologically necessary. If you quit entirely at this point, there are nowhere near enough opiates in your body to make you feel any more than the slightest mildest twinge of withdrawal, especially if you do your best not to focus on it. Now you can stop the pills entirely and your body will be clean from opiates. At this point, if you feel the desire to start using ANYTHING again, even seed tea, try going to counselling or even calling Narcotics Anonymous. At the very least, you will have the freedom of no longer needing to go out and score to avoid sickness, and that terrible obsession fades away. Constantly remind yourself how proud you should feel for managing this, especially on your own and constantly think of all the money you're saving and how you can begin to live a normal life again. With any luck, you will be able to stay off opiates long term with minimal risk of relapsing.
It took me YEARS to fully discover and perfect this method, and keep in mind I used exactly this to come off a 1-2 gram per day heroin habit. I used to be so violently sick upon cold turkey that I'd need to pull over in my car and puke. I was addicted for five years. If i can do it, you certainly can. Always remember that you DO have the power to break this burden, and how happy you used to be simply doing things you enjoy without needing drugs. Your scars will fade, both physical and emotional, and you'll be so much happier.
I know elements of this plan are posted around the boards, but I find this method extremely effective, useful and cheap and want to share it with as many people as possible. I think the key to success here is actually mostly due to weaning yourself onto a drug that still gives you some euphoria. I know many people say it's best to block withdrawal and that's that, but realistically you are going to miss that opiate feeling, and this way provides you with that feeling you would eventually crave detoxing on other methods and more than likely relapsing. It's very gradual and extremely effective. Another huge advantage is how cheap it is to fully and hopefully completely detox from this, using nothing but items at your local grocery store.
Best of luck, and above all, have faith in yourself. PM me if you have any questions or just need support or want to share your stories. If there's anything at all I can do to help, I'd be happy to.
There have been a few reports of people claiming to take like 90 mg of loperamide (which is like 90 little 1 mg pills) and saying that it relieved them of WD or they didn't have an addiction and it got them high. I would not go that route, however. You seem to have a plan so I would stick to that. I myself did poppy tea and one possible option is to switch to a short acting opioid and then cold turkey off that or use Sub. I sort of did it myself, I actually just got a huge batch of bunk seeds that did nothing for me, so I had to do something(I had considered tapering myself, but the huge potency variation made it too difficult). Ended up using OC for about a month and unfortunately wasting a lot of money but then did a relatively short taper with Subs and was all set. I imagine it would be very tough to go from PT to Subs, or to cold turkey off PT(I know I was deathly afraid of it b/c of how long it lasts).
Not to mention on PT my tolerance was way higher than I expected. I had to do 2x the amount of OC to get relief for about 3 days, then I was able to get high again but was using more than I ever had before. I know you are trying to limit WDs as much as possible with tapering, but in the end even if you get it down to a small PT habit, you might be better doing a week of short acting opioid at a small dose and then jumping off that. In essence the WDs will be similar going that route but much shorter, as long as you supplant the PT habit with a relatively = amount of the short acting opioid.
Oh and sorry if the reason you use PT is because there is no other options, rendering that plan useless to you. I did have options it just was a $ issue for me, as with PT a was set all day for like $10-15/day. I didn't exactly make it a plan to switch over to OC, just did it to not get sick when the huge bag of seeds I got wasn't working. I then got off the OC in about a month for $ issues.
I used to take PST 3x daily, so i started by going to 2x daily then down to 1x daily, i did this over a 2 month period. Went from 3kg/day of very high quality seeds down to less than 1 kg then halved that down to 500g/day (you can also start skipping days here to make it easier on yourself). Then i hopped over to kratom and then loperamide and stayed on those for 3 months or so, got off the kratom, stayed on the lope and tapered that down and now opiate free and it wasn't that bad.
you kind of just have to feel it out, if you are quitting because you think it's the right thing to do you're probably going to struggle more with it as i quit because i could not stand taking it anymore. I learned to hate PST and all of its horrible side effects. After that i never relapsed on PST, did on other opiates but fuck PST, it has probably the worst acute withdrawal of all the opiate withdrawals i've done. Definitely taper off it at your own pace because cold turkeying it is fucking terrible. I'd definitely recommend using loperamide (immodium) to taper it makes a hell of a difference.
Lots of good advice in this thread; I really appreciate the support guys, thank you.
My dose is not that high right now (450 grams), so tomorrow, I plan to buy one pack of seeds (150g), and then take that dose everyday for the next week. This won't get me high, but it should keep me well for the most part. After the week ends, I'm going to jump off, as I'm facing a ton of pressure to quit at home from my family. I hope that the week I spend on 1 pack of seeds will soften the blow a little bit.
I will not be using loperamide for this taper... Honestly, I don't think anyone should be using it at high doses. I will admit that it does get me undeniably high as well as relieve all of my withdrawals, but I almost ended up in the hospital last time I used it, as it gave me a really bad fecal impaction that took four enemas to remove... and even at that point, it still tore my ass apart, literally. This was only on 40mg, so I cannot imagine people taking 100mg+ :| I know we are all different, but jesus, that would kill me.
Also, I know it seems like my dose is low... relatively, I guess it is. These seeds must be JAM-PACKED though, as it took me 40 minutes just to write this... Honestly, even nodding just makes me suicidally depressed now. I feel like an empty shell... I haven't experienced any sort of real feeling in what feels like ages. It's as if my motivation/determination/compassion/drive have been snuffed out like a candle, and my soul has been suspended in time within the hardened wax.
You really need to get metaphorical in order to accurately describe the mental asylum that opiate/oiods impression you within. It's hell. A numb, lifeless hell. All I want is to feel love again, any kind of love. I have none, and haven't had any since my heroin experiences a year ago. Life without love isn't worth living... I just wonder how long I'll have to wait for my empathy to return?
Update... I failed with the taper. I don't have enough self-control to make it work... plus, I would rather suffer hard for 2 weeks then suffer mildly for 3 or 4, as the taper eased my physiological symptoms, but not the mental ones (which are by far the worst part for someone who already struggles with self-concept and depression). My log is over at: . Thanks for the responses everyone... I'm getting clean this time, or I've promised my family I will go to rehab if it does not work out. For what it matters, my story will be posted here: http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/681908-Quitting-6-month-poppy-tea-addiction-cold-turkey?p=11662162#post11662162 (thanks for the tip Ho-Chi-Minh).
No problem man. I have your best interest at heart.
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