Misc Subutex vs Tramadol on addictiveness ?

Which is more addicting? been taking tramadol nearly 5times a week for 2years now, never got addicted, but i recently quit, not much withdraws or anything. but tramadol is the only thing i really know the addictiveness of, i don't know if this sounds like a stupid question? but is Subutex much more addicting?

Please can someone answer

Generally speaking yes sub's would be considered more addictive than tramadol.

Yes, yes it is.

I consider them both equally addictive. I spent a month in withdrawal from both of them. It was hell.

When abused, opiates are opiates and produce then same withdrawal symptoms in various degrees. Suboxone generally has a less pronounced withdrawal but much much longer lasting than most due to its half life. Although personally I would rather rather deal with a heroin withdrawal than a suboxone WD (no taper on either). Tapers are niegh impossible without assistance from a trusted family member or friend.

Tramadol also has anti depressant quality so there are additional symptoms. I have never had a true tramadol withdrawal so I can't give you an accurate first hand experience.

amazing said:

Which is more addicting? been taking tramadol nearly 5times a week for 2years now, never got addicted, but i recently quit, not much withdraws or anything. but tramadol is the only thing i really know the addictiveness of, i don't know if this sounds like a stupid question? but is Subutex much more addicting?

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Well, i would say too that buprenorphine (Subutex) can be more easily physically addicting: tramadol is a pretty weak agonist at mu opioid receptor, and the amount you can safely take daily is in theory no more than 400 mg due to the SSRI part of the effect, so it's both weak and kind of self-limiting. Buprenorphine on the contrary binds very tightly to your mu receptor and even if it does not fully activate it, is incredibly more potent than tram even without being a full agonist. It is more an opiate, if you like...

Still it puzzles me that you could take almost daily doses of tramadol and not having problems quitting after two years...what were your doses? Maybe, since tramadol is essentially a pro-drug when it comes to the opiate part of the effect, your liver is not very efficient in that metabolization, but still...and anyway, even an SSRI should give some kind of discomfort when interrupted abruptly...

If you are asking if you can do the same thing for such a long time with Subutex and get away with it, i would say no, not at all...
Anyway if you want to do same research about both drugs, you may find interesting stuff and understand things better

Abhaya said:

Well, i would say too that buprenorphine (Subutex) can be more easily physically addicting: tramadol is a pretty weak agonist at mu opioid receptor, and the amount you can safely take daily is in theory no more than 400 mg due to the SSRI part of the effect, so it's both weak and kind of self-limiting. Buprenorphine on the contrary binds very tightly to your mu receptor and even if it does not fully activate it, is incredibly more potent than tram even without being a full agonist. It is more an opiate, if you like...

Still it puzzles me that you could take almost daily doses of tramadol and not having problems quitting after two years...what were your doses? Maybe, since tramadol is essentially a pro-drug when it comes to the opiate part of the effect, your liver is not very efficient in that metabolization, but still...and anyway, even an SSRI should give some kind of discomfort when interrupted abruptly...

If you are asking if you can do the same thing for such a long time with Subutex and get away with it, i would say no, not at all...
Anyway if you want to do same research about both drugs, you may find interesting stuff and understand things better

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I never really exeeded the recommended dose, i took around 6 a day, 2 like every 4 hours, it still effected me and gave me a pretty nice buzz, never really built a tolerance for some reason, guess i'm just weird.

Do you think i'l be safe taking a drug like subutex, a couple of times a week? or should i make a rare occasion, like once a month? i took it yesterday, took to much with no tolerance ended up spewing my guts out, but it still felt great.

Buprenorphine is much stronger than tramadol and picking up a dependency on it is no picnic. Just read the multitude of threads on this very site detailing the harrows of being addicted to suboxone and trying to get off.

^Mr.Scagnattie speaks the truth.
Having used Tramadol a lot in the past and withdrawing from Buprenorphine at this moment I don't recommend to use the latter regularly.
Bupe has a very long half life which can get you even with daybreaks in between and the WD is long.
Tramadol affected me more negatively but more of a hangover because of the serotonine depletion.

Being in the state I am, I suggest laying off the opioids before getting into the higher potent stuff. Or stay at your course if it goes along, which I doubt.

amazing said:

I never really exeeded the recommended dose, i took around 6 a day, 2 like every 4 hours, it still effected me and gave me a pretty nice buzz, never really built a tolerance for some reason, guess i'm just weird.

Do you think i'l be safe taking a drug like subutex, a couple of times a week? or should i make a rare occasion, like once a month? i took it yesterday, took to much with no tolerance ended up spewing my guts out, but it still felt great.

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I essentially agree with the posts above, but if you want to take such strong opioids, the less often you take them, the better: you will get better effects and you will not develop an addiction. I will not start to preach on how bad an addiction is, but just to say, i started opiates ten years ago and still can't imagine a life without them, and some people have devastated their lives much more than i did. Just take a look in the recovery part of the site, really.

Once a month is a reasonable time.

Also, you already noticed, but be careful when dosing buprenorphine. It comes in ridiculous dosages because it's meant for people who are already tolerant, but it is already active in the 0,1 mg range, so, as i said, do some research and find more about routes of administration, bioavailability etc...

ugh its been about 4 months on subs,now im thinking i fucked up and will still go through hell when i jump off fuckkkk

I'm scripted both tramdol and bupe and I find the bupe waaay more addictive. I've taken tramadol daily for months with very minimal discomfort not having more, but if I don't take my bupe I'm in full on withdrawals. I wouldn't recommend subutex for a "couple times a week" thing due to the long half life. Couple times a month at most (if at al) imo.

I should add that I was hooked on 1,000-1,500mg/day. At that kind of dose for a couple years, I was in awe of how horrible the withdrawal was because I just straight-up quit taking it. The Suboxone was 16-24mg/day.

In my experience even codeine is more physically addicting than tramadol (I don't think this is of much interest for someone deep in opioid addiction). With opioid addiction lasting years I couldn't really feel any opioid effects from tramadol when it was prescribed to me as a temporary substitute, I was just nauseous and sweaty, and it hardly helped for PAWS caused by methadone cessation; codeine eliminated physical symptoms completely at equivalent dose.

Suboxone is the devil inside just like methadone even though withdrawal symptoms are much less intense in comparison, the duration plays a very important role. I'd rather withdraw more severely from heroin or morphine for a week than mildly from buprenorphine for months. And I can imagine taking very high doses like those used in buprenorphine maintenance makes the whole thing much more complicated. I can't remember the source, but I read somewhere that analgesic effect increases even up to 10mg, a few years ago ~16mg (s.l.) would kill my pain much more than ~200mg (.i.v.) of morphine, but now I'm on 8mg Suboxone and when I get a headache, there's nothing I can get relief from, only marihuana makes it numb. Buprenorphine is a terrible drug to be addicted to, I know a lot of people in my country shoot up a solution made with transdermal patches and they've no idea what they're getting into.