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Misc Is this combo really bad for the liver...

lmthenry

lmthenry

Greenlighter
Joined
Apr 10, 2013
Messages
6
I take the following combination about once every 2-3 weeks:

10mg oxycodone (with a total of 650mg APAP) + 10mg diazepam + 2 standard drinks of alcohol.

Before each of these experiences I take 200mg of Cimetidine (1 pill of Tagamet) and about 12 oz grapefruit juice.

Never felt close to getting into respiratory trouble or losing consciousness and I like the effects of this combination--but yes, I knows the inherent risks in this combo and doesn't increase the amount of any item in it.


So I'm interested in how harmful this would be to the liver. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? I drink about 1 standard drink per day (sometimess less, sometimes more) but never use APAP on any other occasions.
 
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I would also like to know however can state that the above mentioned drug classes have shown to be much more forgiving on the liver compared to other rec drug types. I may be wrong. Lets confirm.
 
blight12 said:
I would also like to know however can state that the above mentioned drug classes have shown to be much more forgiving on the liver compared to other rec drug types. I may be wrong. Lets confirm.
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Yeah, it's the combination of APAP with the other drugs mentioned that concerns SWIM (although, it isn't very much APAP). SWIM really doesn't want to do a CW extraction just for 10mg of oxycodone.

And SWIM did have a clear liver function blood test a little over a year ago (SWIM's not sure if that's relevant).
 
To the best of my knowledge 650mg of apap every couple weeks will have no adverse effect.
The alcohol is probably the most dangerous element of that combo due to the additive quality of its effects on the oxy and diazepam. Its also the most damaging, as you use it everyday. The longterm effects of daily alcohol consumption are well documented though so i dont think i need to detail them.lol
To put your apap use into perspective, i have chronic pain and have to take apap in combination with opiates to control it. I have to use between 2000-3000mg of apap daily and my doctor is happy with that, i have no signs of liver deteriation and my liver tests also come back as normal.
 
bunge said:
To the best of my knowledge 650mg of apap every couple weeks will have no adverse effect.
The alcohol is probably the most dangerous element of that combo due to the additive quality of its effects on the oxy and diazepam. Its also the most damaging, as you use it everyday. The longterm effects of daily alcohol consumption are well documented though so i dont think i need to detail them.lol
To put your apap use into perspective, i have chronic pain and have to take apap in combination with opiates to control it. I have to use between 2000-3000mg of apap daily and my doctor is happy with that, i have no signs of liver deteriation and my liver tests also come back as normal.
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SWIM does understand about daily alcohol consumption. And actually, the 1 drink per day is just SWIM's average. There are a couple days per week with zero beers (SWIM prefers beer), and a couple days per week with 2-3 beers. It usually averages to about 1-2 drinks per day.

There's been a lot of talk about lowering single-dose and daily APAP consumption recommendations & that's why SWIM is concerned.
 
lmthenry said:
SWIM takes the following combination about once every 2-3 weeks:

10mg oxycodone (with a total of 650mg APAP) + 10mg diazepam + 2 standard drinks of alcohol.

SWIM usually precedes each of these experiences with 200mg of Cimetidine (1 pill of Tagamet) and about 12 oz grapefruit juice.

SWIM has never felt close to getting into respiratory trouble or losing consciousness and likes the effects of this combination--but yes, SWIM knows the inherent risks in this combo and doesn't increase the amount of any item in it.


So SWIM is interested in how harmful this would be to the liver. Does anyone have any thoughts on this? SWIM does drink about 1 standard drink per day (sometimess less, sometimes more) but never uses APAP on any other occasions.
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Ethanol is an organic solvent. Drinking organic solvents is incompatible with taking benzos+opioids. Always separate the 2. You can either choose to get high on alcohol or ether; or take medication. Combining the 2 can lead to coma and death if the dose is high enough.
 
1-2 std drinks every couple of weeks is pretty minor. Even with the occasional extra strength acetaminophen thrown it it should pose no realistic concern to the healthy individual who is well-hydrated and eats their Wheaties, so to say.

If you were a chronic alcoholic abusing 6-8 Percocets a day it would be another story though.

PS. we don't use SWIM here, it doesn't protect you from anything.
 
Ksa said:
Ethanol is an organic solvent. Drinking organic solvents is incompatible with taking benzos+opioids. Always separate the 2. You can either choose to get high on alcohol or ether; or take medication. Combining the 2 can lead to coma and death if the dose is high enough.
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This is interesting. I understand combining depressants is dangerous but was not aware there was an additional issue due to alcohol and its organic solvent format. Could you share the more detail on this?
 
Please edit the "swim" out of your post. We don't use that here as it doesn't offer you an actual legal protection and is annoying to read. Give the BLUA a look for the do's and don'ts of BL.

As to your question, what you are doing is very dangerous. You should never combine CNS depressants, especially not in three forms (opiates, benzos, and alcohol). Mixing just two of those together is dangerous, let alone all three. Many people have overdosed from that combination even if they used it for a long time with no trouble. It can happen out of the blue, even at the same doses you normally use, hence the danger..

As far as it being bad for your liver.. yes, mixing those three substances is also much worse for your liver.

You're taking a gamble every time you mix those drugs. It's a horrible idea.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
Please edit the "swim" out of your post. We don't use that here as it doesn't offer you an actual legal protection and is annoying to read. Give the BLUA a look for the do's and don'ts of BL.

As to your question, what you are doing is very dangerous. You should never combine CNS depressants, especially not in three forms (opiates, benzos, and alcohol). Mixing just two of those together is dangerous, let alone all three. Many people have overdosed from that combination even if they used it for a long time with no trouble. It can happen out of the blue, even at the same doses you normally use, hence the danger..

As far as it being bad for your liver.. yes, mixing those three substances is also much worse for your liver.

You're taking a gamble every time you mix those drugs. It's a horrible idea.
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Thanks for the advice & I've edited out the SWIM from the original post.

I don't understand, though, how an OD can occur if I stay at the exact same doses of all three drugs (and I've never had problems in the past). Can you give me any info on how this can occur?
 
lmthenry said:
Thanks for the advice & I've edited out the SWIM from the original post.

I don't understand, though, how an OD can occur if I stay at the exact same doses of all three drugs (and I've never had problems in the past). Can you give me any info on how this can occur?
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It can occur because you are combining CNS depressants, which increases the chance for respiratory depression and overdose greatly. Just google the dangers of combining CNS depressants. It's the fact that even though you may be taking the same doses of all three drugs, the effects on your respiratory system and central nervous system vary from one time to the next due to the unstable combination of drugs. So you could be fine 9 out of 10 times and then all the sudden be in serious trouble on the 10th time. It happens a lot.

The combination of opiates and benzos, opiates and booze, or all three (really bad), has caused a large amount of fatal overdoses. I can list probably seven or eight people that I know personally that have died that way. It's serious shit.
 
Mr.Scagnattie said:
It can occur because you are combining CNS depressants, which increases the chance for respiratory depression and overdose greatly. Just google the dangers of combining CNS depressants. It's the fact that even though you may be taking the same doses of all three drugs, the effects on your respiratory system and central nervous system vary from one time to the next due to the unstable combination of drugs. So you could be fine 9 out of 10 times and then all the sudden be in serious trouble on the 10th time. It happens a lot.

The combination of opiates and benzos, opiates and booze, or all three (really bad), has caused a large amount of fatal overdoses. I can list probably seven or eight people that I know personally that have died that way. It's serious shit.
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I know they all depress the CNS, but had never heard that there could be so much variance with the same doses.

I've done this combo probably close to 150 times over the past 5-6 years and never had any scary moments. I'll re-think about it.

Although, just the diazepam & oxycodone doses I'm taking are close to therapeutic (5mg diazepam + 10mg oxycodone is prescribed for severe lower back pain). I may leave the ethanol out and find a different potentiator or combo.
 
Taking any sort of drugs is hard on the liver and/or kidneys. Possibly not dangerously so, and not what you're doing, I don't think. The danger is in saturating the enzymes that break down the paracetamol.

I don't think you're taking enough cimitidine or grapefruit juice to potentate the drugs. 800mg cimitidine or a liter of white grapefruit is what it takes.
 
Dude-

i used to sniff 10X that amount up my nose AT A TIME, on a daily basis for years (while drinking heavily too)...

And I'm still kicking- I'm 24 and started when I was 18.
 
I am prescribed 1g acetaminophen/paracetamol 4 times daily, by my pm doc, along with Temgesic and some more. I asked him about a daily intake of 4g apap and the long term side effects, but his response was "you can take that for the rest of your life without problems". I don't know..., I try to take 2-3 g/ day, just to be sure..

I don't think you need to worry, 650 mg every 2-3 weeks, even with some alcohol, is not much. If you worry about it, take some n-acetyl cysteine and silymarin.
 
The tylenol and the alcohol is my main concern here. As long as you regularly use all 3: valium, alcohol, and oxycdone these are very low doses. We are talking about someone who drinks daily combining one drink with a just above threshold dose of valium and percocet. However if you raise the doses or were inexperienced this could cause some problems. While benzos, alcohol, and apap are all bad for your liver I don't think this combination will kill you. However I would say that for the sake of being safe, please do a cwe and please don't combine this much after a long break. Eg. Dont try this after not taking valium or percocet for 2 years.
 
weekend addiction said:
The tylenol and the alcohol is my main concern here. As long as you regularly use all 3: valium, alcohol, and oxycdone these are very low doses. We are talking about someone who drinks daily combining one drink with a just above threshold dose of valium and percocet. However if you raise the doses or were inexperienced this could cause some problems. While benzos, alcohol, and apap are all bad for your liver I don't think this combination will kill you. However I would say that for the sake of being safe, please do a cwe and please don't combine this much after a long break. Eg. Dont try this after not taking valium or percocet for 2 years.
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Man I love your account name...half of my life phylosophy is stored in those 2 words lol.
 
weekend addiction said:
The tylenol and the alcohol is my main concern here. As long as you regularly use all 3: valium, alcohol, and oxycdone these are very low doses. We are talking about someone who drinks daily combining one drink with a just above threshold dose of valium and percocet. However if you raise the doses or were inexperienced this could cause some problems. While benzos, alcohol, and apap are all bad for your liver I don't think this combination will kill you. However I would say that for the sake of being safe, please do a cwe and please don't combine this much after a long break. Eg. Dont try this after not taking valium or percocet for 2 years.
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Thanks for your opinion. I keep these doses fairly low and constant to be as safe as possible, while still enjoying the effects.

Does a CWE run the risk of losing some of the oxycodone on the filter? For only 10mg, I'd want to make sure I get it all! Also, by doing a CWE will the experience be different because of the absence of APAP? (Again, I realize these are fairly small doses, but I want to be safe).
 
lmthenry said:
Thanks for your opinion. I keep these doses fairly low and constant to be as safe as possible, while still enjoying the effects.

Does a CWE run the risk of losing some of the oxycodone on the filter? For only 10mg, I'd want to make sure I get it all! Also, by doing a CWE will the experience be different because of the absence of APAP? (Again, I realize these are fairly small doses, but I want to be safe).
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If memory serves you will loose on average 10-15 percent of the oxycodone depending on the diligence used and other factors. And no the experience should be the same. Your chances of having an upset stomach will be lower as well. So you've got to ask yourself. Is 5 minutes and 10% of my dose worth liver damage or stomach ulcers? The difference in effects is negligable from what I hear.
 
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