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《Plasticity》
12-11-2013, 18:47
Same with taking a shit, it used to be a struggle now its normal turds flowing through me every day lol.

I've actually found that kratom keeps me nice and regular. Maybe due to the fiber?


I will say this, I have never been sick (as in bacteria sickness) since I've been using kratom, take that for what its worth but I believe this stuff improves my immune system.

I too have noticed this. Although I rarely got sick before getting on kratom I still find this fascinating.


I still get euphoria sometimes, but with kratom every time you take it something feels different as in one day 5gs will feel overwhelming and the next it will be just right.

BUY A SCALE! everyone who has claimed to have inconsistency problems don't use a scale. All my doses are very consistent effects wise when weighed. Its impossible to eyeball the same amount consistently, especially when you don't even have a referance as to what 5 grams looks like. Also different strains have different weights. I can't reccomend enough that kratom users buy at least a 10$ scale from amazon. Not only for dose consistency but so you actually know where your habit is and when you want to to taper you can effectively do so.


Withdrawal is no picnic, no nausea for me just soreness everywhere and yawning/runny nose.

Tell me about it. I get NO GI distress (ie.nausea, vomiting diahrea) but the RLS, runny aches, bone pain, and runny nose and eyes SUCK!!! Complete restlessness, pain, and and anxiety. Since when does coffee produce such withdrawals lol. That's a mere cover-up to keep kratom legal IMO.

On a side note, have any of you kratom users noticed green tinted urine? I have ever sinced I started taking kratom and when I brought it up to my Dr she said it was most likely from food and vitamins (didn't mention the kratom to her) and that it's fine. I'm guessing it's excess chlorophyll or something.

Also has anyone run into any GI problems when taking kratom? I recently developed duodenal ulcers and I feel kratom is to blame. I don't think it has to do with the TnW method either as I havent done so in about a year and a half. I don't know if I'm allowed to post links to other forums but reading through this http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=152523 makes me realize I'm not alone. Especially this post " Once i stayed a very long Time on a tiny Island in the south of Thailand close to Myanmar, mostly all the (male) native People chewed Kratom every Day since Childhood. When i asked them about Side-effects all reported Stomach Problems and gastric Ulcers! Maybe it is common when Kratom is used daily?" For those who don't know ulcers are generally caused by a bacteria called Helicobactor Pylori or H.pylori for short. Mine was proven to be caused by the bacteria and not due to eating excess powder, though I doubt that helped. Anyways I was told this bacteria runs rampant in third world countries so perhaps the workers who farm kratom are not taking sanitary precautions such as coughing on plants or even on their hands before working with the plant thus sending kratom with the bacteria infestation. Perhaps its just something about the plant that's hard on the stomach...IDK. What I do know is I'm not the only one who experienced this.

liftedgift
12-11-2013, 20:55
The thing is, sometimes I will take significantly less one day but feel what I call the negative effects of kratom more than when I take a large dose. Good idea with the scale but I know that so many things factor in with kratom's effects than just the amount.

The stomach problems sound like you might need to change your source. I have used the same source for almost 2 years now and never had green urine or any stomach problems. Do you buy crushed leaf and grind yourself? The stems might be to blame. I usually buy already powdered/sifted kratom and never had digestive issues.

I also used to take accutane and would get my blood taken every month and all my liver functions/enzymes were fine after heavy kratom and kava use.

《Plasticity》
12-11-2013, 22:29
Trust me, my sources are top-notch ;). I have noticed this throughout my whole time using kratom and have been through a few sources, ALL legit. In fact my main vendor is extremely top notch, a lil pricey but worth it as quality and service are as high as can be for a vendor. The people at opiophile may know who I'm reffering to.

I also should have said that when I first got the ulcers I checked into a hospital because I didn't know what was wrong with me and they ran all tests and even a CT scan and all was normal. I'm not saying the green tinted urine is indicative of any internal damage or even that its for sure the kratom causing it but since starting my journey I have noticed a *slight* green tinge and a friend has mentioned the same (We use different sources). The doctors said its extremely common for food and vitamins to add a green tint to urine. Asparagus is notorious for this so why can't kratom be as well? Who knows, maybe you and I don't digest the excess chlorophyll the same. Idk I'm no doctor.

Regarding my ulcer it could very well be completely un related, I was merely speculating. I too was 100% fine until a couple months ago when the ulcers started so its not like as soon as I started I was pissing moss green and suffering of ulcers... it took time. I know for a fact that others have also had some sort of GI distress regarding kratom and to put it down to something on sources or the users fault is, while a reasonable question, a bit ignorant. Especially when others claim this and a person who stayed in thailand mentioned that ulcers were a widespread problem amongst the kratom users. Although I will say this, if the h.pylori is already rampant in thailand who's to say the kratom is to blame? This is a place for sharing harm reduction info so I'm going to share whatever info I've got, good or bad, coincidence or not. If kratom causes me to lose an eye than I'm going to say that. I'm a no-nonsense guy, when someone claims to experience problems with a drug, even if its my DOC I'm not gonna deny it and look for any excuse to deny the drug as the cause like many addicts do. Look at some of the MXE heads refuse to believe that their sacred drug caused someone to go through what looks like irreversable kidney damage. Yes there were other drugs involved and MXE very well mag NOT be the culprit but to see the flat out denial is sad, even from an addicts eyes. I must say this, I'm NOT saying your in denial lol, just stating what I've seen from others on this forum so don't be offended by my somber tone.

I buy top notch powdered leaf with very little if any stem and vein, nicely micro grinded fluffy light green/gold powder. For the first year to year and a half I tossed and washed but realized that eating all that powder can't be good (just my opinion, not making claims here) so I switched to making tea and haven't looked back. Trust me though, that scale will be so worth the 10$, I promise you will notice consistency. Even when switching strains the variance isn't by much. There's not as many factors as you would think.

liftedgift
13-11-2013, 06:25
Yes it very well could be the kratom, who knows as there isn't any studies on long term use. All I know is I've had zero stomach issues after heavy use but I know that isn't saying much since some people can drink liquor every day and not have liver problems and we all know how bad alcohol is for the liver.

If it was caused by bacteria doesn't that pretty much tell you how you got it, so it is not directly because of kratom but because it was on the kratom.

Do you still use kratom now that you found out you have ulcers?

Everyone I have talked to about kratom over the internet agrees that it is really mysterious when it comes to effects. It is extremely variable, more so than any other drug I have taken. Like when you get a new strain, you always feel the same effects? Sometimes I won't feel anything from a new strain, then a couple days later it feels even better than my old strain.

Ever heard of stale strain syndrome? You keep eating the same strain and it does nothing after awhile. And it's not tolerance because you can all of a sudden get high again some days.

Time of day also has a huuuuuge impact. I've also noticed if I sleep for a few hours and then eat it is stronger than if I stayed up for the same amount of time and then ate some. Obviously having an empty or full stomach is a big factor too. If I'm at work, I can take way more and have energy than if I was at home sitting down watching tv or something. The same amount would give me the wobbles. It's just a weird fucking drug.

If your doing extracts though it is more consistent and more like an actual opiate as in tolerance will go way up. There is a line with plain leaf for me, and when I cross it I get no more euphoria just what I consider the bad effects of kratom, the dizziness and fucked up vision aka the wobbles. But again because its so fucking weird, this line changes every day. And you say how would you know you don't have a scale, well I use this wooden spoon usually to toss n wash(sometimes I use just a card if I'm at work) so the amount isn't off and even with a card I can tell if I'm taking my usual amount or not.

IDK man I don't think anyone truly understands this plant and all its dangers/benefits.

silentcowboy
14-11-2013, 03:37
Yeah, kratom is an interesting one. even though ive been using it for a few years I still can catch a buzz and overall, is a much better alternative then a lot of other things imo. its a much more controllable/manageable habit. oxy used to be my thing but kratom has worked so well as a "maintenance drug" i dont have a reason to do anything harder, including alcohol.... its kept me on track.
Anyways... food and stomach conditions are the biggest factor (imo) when it comes down to how variable the effects can be. make sure not to eat/drink dairy anytime around a dose, it kills any effect for me. i always eat a little bit of something right after i take it, not much. im not sure why but ive always gotten more consistent effects. fatty foods dont mix well with kratom, ive always had decent luck with 1/2 pbj sandwich (12 grain wheat bread, not a tiny piece of white bread) and bagels, plain or with a little butter. it can be frustrating when you know you're only getting partial effects off a dose.
As for eye wobbles, i have only noticed them with white veins, in bigger doses. rarely will i get them from a green/indo/bali. a good solid red vein normally yeilds the most consistent effects, (and extracts as liftedgift said above) ive never gotten eye wobbles off of a red, no matter the dose.
hope this helps!

blue1995
14-11-2013, 05:22
I just started with kratom - I've dosed 3 times and have another batch on the way of bali powder (my first go-round was with thai). I'm coming off of subutex, it's been 3 days off the sub and I dosed the last 2 days with the kratom. So far it seems to be keeping the w/ds at bay; am hoping to keep it going but I only have one smaller-than-usual dose left and the other won't arrive for 3-5 days. So.. probably Monday. Thinking of using loperamide (sp) or gabapentin if I get in a pinch. Anyway, I noticed eye-wobbles the first time I dosed at ~ 7.5 grams (found out that there's somewhere between 2.5-2.6g in a teaspoon so I've just been dosing with 3 teaspoons at a time until I acquire a scale). The wobbles weren't really unpleasant, just notable, since that's only ever happened with me on either high doses of opiates or MDMA. Glad when I came here tonight and saw it's common among other uses.

So far I think kratom might be a pretty good option for getting of the suboxone/subutex coaster. Have been thinking of switching after the first month (when acute sub wd/s would normally be over) to lope, then asking my dr. to put me on Neurontin indefinitely. That's the plan. Thanks for this thread. Thoughts welcome.

FlawedByDesign
14-11-2013, 05:41
^Sounds like a good plan. Kratom is an absolute godsend when coming off of suboxone.

《Plasticity》
14-11-2013, 10:32
I switch between 4 strains and they're all active around the same dose give or take .5 grams. Some strains like indo, thai, and maeng da don't do shit for me so I just stick with the strains that work, ironicaly the cheaper strains. I never use extracts as they will ruin the effects of plain leaf and well.. I'm not the richest guy so I stick to what's more cost effective. I've heard of people saying that switching strains keeps tolerance at bay and how one strain loses its effects after a while but that is not the case with me at all. I can stick to bali for months at a time and get the same effects then if I were to constantly rotate strains. As far as time of day goes I thought that was true for the first year as my wake-up dose was more euphoric than my evening dose but realized it was due to the fact my stomach was empty in the mornings and not so much in the evening. I tested this by making sure my stomach was completely empty for the evening dose and low and behold the doses felt the same.

When I first starting feeling the pain of my ulcers I rapidly tapered my kratom to near nothing as I thought I was experiencing liver problems but once I was diagnosed with an ulcer (about 3 weeks after staring taper) and realizing my liver tests were fine and that my pain had not changed one bit since kicking I hopped back on the kratom train lol. It was great because my tolerance was so low I was able ti get the itchy fuzzies from like 5 grams which was a nice reminder of the old days. Kratom is truely a strange plant, the alkaloid profiles varies from antagonists, agonists, diuretics, skeletal muscle relaxants and lots more. What's even cooler is we don't even know ALL the alkaloids in this plant which means there can be a wonderful medicine in this plant that we just haven't discovered.

As far as the far-fetched h.pylori theory goes... yes, ulcers are caused by a bacteria (generally, NSAID's are the only other real culprits) so if kratom causes ulcers its most likely not due to the plant itself but from contamination from workers which let's face it, their in a third-world country harvesting for many many hours and probably aren't using hand sanitizer after coughing on their hands only to get dirty harvesting again. Vendors play no part in what the workers in indonesia do so even the top vendors can get an infected batch. But like I said, PURE SPECULATION. Although not far fetched if you think about how widespread the bacteria is in those places along with the ease of spreading (saliva and mucous).

One last thing I wanna mention is kratoms tolerance. For me both kratom and cannabis build tolerance similarly. The dose tends to stay around the same but quality of effects decline. For example, I've been smoking for 9 years, about 8 of those everyday lol and 1 fat bong hit still gets me pretty faded but I no longer get the giggles, extreme munchies, childlike wonder, or dissociation (yeah weed used to make me dissociated in my virgin toking years) and trying to chase these effects is pontless and will lead to mothing but more anxiety. Same goes for kratom, while my dose has risen, not as much as you'd expect for a three year 2-3x daily kratom habit. The only thing that happens is the quality of effects (euphoria, itches, mood boost, stimulation)diminish and don't come back at higher doses, usually the effects get worst. One thing that sucks about my long term abuse is no matter which strain I use or what dose I take I no longer get the stimulating motivational effects... like at all :/. This means that stimulating strains tend to not do shit in the euphoria/opiate department OR the stimulating/focused department so I only take sedating red veins. All kratom makes me kinda lazy after the first hour. Besides that this plant is still one of the best medicines out and I have no real complaints.

Edit: Aha!! I think I figured the greenish urine explanation. So here me out, vitamins (primarily B vitamins) are expelled from the body through urine with a greenish tint. Well... kratom has diuretic alkaloids which in case you don't know what a diuretic does it induces urination and expellment (even a word?) of excess vitamins and waste which could mean that my body expells vitamins through my urine at greater concentrations then normal thus the green tinted urine :D This could also explain why I pee alot more than before getting on kratom. Once again though when I say green urine its yellow/green tinted urine....NOT dark green urine which is indicative of oxidized bilirubin related to liver problems so if your pissin dark green get that checked out lol.

silentcowboy
15-11-2013, 03:43
Yeah, first dose of the day is definitely the best... the tolerance thing is different for sure(plain leaf that is), my doses haven't risen nearly what you'd think. the effects arnt like they were, but still pretty good... on a normal day i normally do 4/day at 6g. RVT, green borneo, bali, red borneo. sometimes you can time it right and for some reason my last dose of the day can be very comparable to the first. i like the different effects you can get from new or different strains. kratom is an interesting one, its kinda like all the different strains of weed(also a daily smoker) but the difference in effects are more pronounced. like CaptainKratom said, I used to like green and white veins at first but now im leaning toward red a little more. greens and whites are normally motivating for me, i still like them, but reds have a better feel to them for sure.

liftedgift
16-11-2013, 09:20
Maybe it would be a good idea to put your kratom in the freezer for a couple days, to try to kill any bacteria that might be on it.

drrockso
16-11-2013, 19:25
1st time user of Kratom, as of last night dosed 10 caps at 10x and then nothing after an hr n 30 mins so re-dosed a stronger X's

11, 15x Maeng Da effects much stronger and longer, couldnt fall sleep felt to good n speedy.

Wake up tired but till abit rested

Next day trying 2 tbsp of yerba mate tea and 10, 15x caps of Maeng Da

to add a blend of extra energy with my kratom.

and the waiting game begins.

_______________________________

later being the time now, id say this mixture was made for each other.

feeling like a perfect dose of ketmine and cocaine right now.

very impressed

Hiltoniano
16-11-2013, 21:46
Come on guys, stop talking about kratom and help this guy with his lactation and vagina formation symptoms he thinks is from taking opiates...not like this is a kratom thread. At lwest i acknowledged. TBH u should prob see a doctor

Your ignorance is astounding. I really dont understand why you think attempting to make fun of me for asking a question that quite frankly a lot of people on bluelight who use kratom regularly may be asking. It has nothing to do with vaginas, are you 13 years old? The nerve... Anyway thanks everyone else who actually answered and I will say, kratom seems like it has something which mediates tolerance somehow ( proposed NMDA antagonism? ) , but perhaps it is lost in the extracts and thats why tolerance rises so much quicker and dramatically compared to plain leaf.

《Plasticity》
17-11-2013, 05:28
Your ignorance is astounding. I really dont understand why you think attempting to make fun of me for asking a question that quite frankly a lot of people on bluelight who use kratom regularly may be asking. It has nothing to do with vaginas, are you 13 years old? The nerve... Anyway thanks everyone else who actually answered and I will say, kratom seems like it has something which mediates tolerance somehow ( proposed NMDA antagonism? ) , but perhaps it is lost in the extracts and thats why tolerance rises so much quicker and dramatically compared to plain leaf.

Yeah that was pretty un-called for. As for the tolerance thing, Kratom has both mu agonists AND antagonists
so I think that's why the tolerance stays pretty much the same. Extracts raise tolerance quickly because their well... extracts. Most extracts also only use mitragynine and 7-HO-mitragynine and at very high concentrations so you basically bombard your receptors with nothing but the 'goodies' although I find these types of extracts lacking the magic that is a full alkoloid profile. Only good extract IMO is UEI and that shit skyrockets tolerance and is pretty expensive dose for dose therefore I would reccomend sticking to plain leaf, after heavy abuse of extracts plain leaf will become pretty ineffective.

blue1995
17-11-2013, 19:17
My small shipment of bali kratom arrived yesterday, to my surprise. I jumped right in there and took a 7.5g dose, but realized I'll run out too quickly if I do that. So this morning I decided to try 5g and the effects are comparable, if not a bit better, today. Based on my limited experience, I have to agree with other posters who've made this same observation.

Question: If I take 20mg of hydrocodone today, while under the effects of kratom or after, will it be a waste? I wonder if I should wait until it's out of my system, or at least until tomorrow?

drrockso
18-11-2013, 21:17
Back on the Kratom band wagon this time to try Xscape 100x pop two about 45 mins ago.

I know what most of you might say that the higher X's are prb lies and bs will that may be true but ive had luck with the other 2 brands da pimp bomb and some lower x10 both were nice so lets hope theses 100x treat me the same :D

odjowjdjia
30-11-2013, 13:15
Cpl of questions here.

Been researching this for a while as a perhaps safer alternative to things Ive tried in the past- stim/rcs etc.

1st and most importantly do you guys think this one CAN be used responsibly on and off like say ppl use MDMA- not that they have the same effects just the usage frequency? Maybe this is a poor sample group to ask cos most of y'all seem to be grizzled x heroin/opiate addicts so ofc you're gonna say 'no way dude you'll get hooked i did!' where maybe that was youre particular predisposition. Now ofc I don't want to be foolhardy and say 'bah those fools that would never happen to ME!' hence why I ask.

From my own experience I've tried a range purportedly addictive things in the past like mdpv crack speed etc and and each time, while the high has been enticing at times once it wore of the after effects always warded me off wanting to take them all the time. I just wonder if this is the same and I ask so as not to be overconfident and foolhardy in my presumptions. So my question is not whether YOU personally could control yourself if you are indeed addicted but whether you have ever known anyone to take it on occasion and if it is a realistic goal for certain ppl. Maybe speaking of numbers how many ppl do you know who are addicted to it vs use it occasionally- then again that has pitfalls as if you were an addictive type yourself you'd likely gravitate to other ppl of likemind. But anecdotal reports of anyone you've known who have been able to use it on occasion without incident would be useful.

To perhaps further illuminate on a scale of 1-10 how additive is this? compared to speed, cocaine, mephedrone, mdpv, weed, alcohol? where would you put each on the scale and also where would you put kratom in between them so I can get an idea of its potential addictive qualities vs other substances Ive tried as comparing it to other opiates is worthless for me since I havent done them before except codeine once or twice and i cant remember what it was like really.

Also in terms of the stimulant side. Ive always been fond of my dopamine highs and was intrigued by ppl saying its like a hit of speed at first but cleaner. Is this also true of the confidence boost and socially outgoing qualities of it? Im wondering if a small dose would be good for picking up chicks like amps/coke are absolute king for doing? I like the idea that kratom is an 'all in one' kind of deal in that with stims you HAVE TO have some kind of downer to stave off the comedown but with this it seemed like a convenient all in one up, down package. Thats not the main reason I'd want to do it but just a side bonus if it were true.

Another thing, I was concerned by this issue of stomach troubles due to poor hygiene from the 3rd world worker picking the stuff. Would throwing the material into boiling water and letting it cool then after draining and keeping the water and tossing and washing with it and the material kill the bacteria which may be on there without destroying the active ingredients?

liftedgift
30-11-2013, 17:07
How addicting is it? I mean it's going to be different from person to person but imo it is less addicting than opiates. Although I chose to use it everyday to keep me off other stuff. It's more addicting than weed in the sense that it does have a withdrawal that does suck but is bearable with other non opiate medications.

But I've given some to multiple people and I'd say 90% of them didn't enjoy it as most won't feel anything and continue to take some until they get sick. If you are eating plain leaf, it's not a really powerful drug and won't blow your socks off by any means. I think people expect more from plain leaf than it has to offer which makes it seem shitty. I can take 3-5gs and feel euphoric.

The best part of plain leaf kratom is tolerance is very forgiving, my tolerance has been pretty much the same for a year now and I can eat a lot one day and not so much the next and still have good effects.

As for the nausea, I never get stomach troubles with it. Although many do for whatever reason. I would be willing to bet making tea would eliminate any factors that might contribute to stomach pains.

aguythatlikessmoke
30-11-2013, 17:49
I am very experienced with Ethnobotanicals. I find Kratom is less addictive than Marijuana and it is a lot better of a herbal high compared to weed.
I found it reduces your cravings to Alcohol. For example I take an Extract one night it helps me sleep, I use it for insomnia and I find I am consuming no Alcohol for the next 7-10 days.

I can compare Kratom to Vicodin. I find Vicodin a lot more of a drugged up feeling and a stronger more opiod like high. Kratom has Opiod qualities that is true but its in the Rubiaceae Plant family meaning it Truly is in the same Family as the coffee plant. The Come up on Kratom is More Euphoric, Stimulating and very smooth at times better than Cocaine because its stimulating( but has a mild nonexistent crash and quality of coke is getting worse) it relieves fatigue Mentally and Physically you feel a feeling of "cleanerness" Mentally and you feel really good. But your quite functional It doesn't cause much nausea, none at all to me in proper dosages whilst Hydrocodone at 20mg I get a bit of Nausea. And hydrocodone is a drugged up feeling I can't stand on my feet and shit and I couldn't feel functional. But on Kratom initially your quite stimulated you feel a bit of Empathy its nice at the clubs cause your up to socialize and meet up with people and you feel the empathy a bit. It is stimulating and better than caffeine at that and a very clear stimulation, Euphoric but not mind blowing Euphoria. The stimulation starts to fade and later on you feel a slight Nod, I find Kratom puts me to sleep. The Body high can be quite nice on Kratom, your muscles and joints tingle. But when Compared to Vicodin, Hydrocodone it is milder because yea you feel good stimulated but your clear functional and like your not drugged up, On high doages of Kratom people probably cant even tell your on something but with Vicodin they can . It has nice anxiolytic and Antidepressant effects.

odjowjdjia
30-11-2013, 17:54
So less addictive than things like coke, mdpv, mephedrone or on par? If less thats great but if on par I just saw those things like treats like I just had half a cake I like it but I dont want it every day as I know its not good for me. I would prefer something less racey though and more easy going.

As per the stomach troubles I meant more on the lines of developing stomach ulcers as some ppl were talking about above or somewhere around here that it comes from h pylori bacteria. So the boiling part I meant to be to kill the bacteria before ingestion, plus for peace of mind as I have thoughts of 3rd world working class ppl wiping there asses with their fingers and carrying on merrily picking the leaf for my ingestion. Who knows what other infestations I would be opening myself up to- all manner of worms and who knows what else from a foreign country. tho you guys seem to have bioassayed thoroughly with little incident :).

Im not after a super euphoria at all, I want nice gentle pedestrian enjoyment :).


How addicting is it? I mean it's going to be different from person to person but imo it is less addicting than opiates. Although I chose to use it everyday to keep me off other stuff. It's more addicting than weed in the sense that it does have a withdrawal that does suck but is bearable with other non opiate medications.

But I've given some to multiple people and I'd say 90% of them didn't enjoy it as most won't feel anything and continue to take some until they get sick. If you are eating plain leaf, it's not a really powerful drug and won't blow your socks off by any means. I think people expect more from plain leaf than it has to offer which makes it seem shitty. I can take 3-5gs and feel euphoric.

The best part of plain leaf kratom is tolerance is very forgiving, my tolerance has been pretty much the same for a year now and I can eat a lot one day and not so much the next and still have good effects.

As for the nausea, I never get stomach troubles with it. Although many do for whatever reason. I would be willing to bet making tea would eliminate any factors that might contribute to stomach pains.

odjowjdjia
30-11-2013, 18:01
When you say you take kratom one night do you mean one night then not again for several days/weeks or every night? If it's the latter how do you know you're not addicted?

As I mentioned your comparisons to other opiates are lost on me since I havent tried them.

Still appreciated as I got some usefull tidbits from your reply.


I am very experienced with Ethnobotanicals. I find Kratom is less addictive than Marijuana and it is a lot better of a herbal high compared to weed.
I found it reduces your cravings to Alcohol. For example I take an Extract one night it helps me sleep, I use it for insomnia and I find I am consuming no Alcohol for the next 7-10 days.

I can compare Kratom to Vicodin. I find Vicodin a lot more of a drugged up feeling and a stronger more opiod like high. Kratom has Opiod qualities that is true but its in the Rubiaceae Plant family meaning it Truly is in the same Family as the coffee plant. The Come up on Kratom is More Euphoric, Stimulating and very smooth at times better than Cocaine because its stimulating( but has a mild nonexistent crash and quality of coke is getting worse) it relieves fatigue Mentally and Physically you feel a feeling of "cleanerness" Mentally and you feel really good. But your quite functional It doesn't cause much nausea, none at all to me in proper dosages whilst Hydrocodone at 20mg I get a bit of Nausea. And hydrocodone is a drugged up feeling I can't stand on my feet and shit and I couldn't feel functional. But on Kratom initially your quite stimulated you feel a bit of Empathy its nice at the clubs cause your up to socialize and meet up with people and you feel the empathy a bit. It is stimulating and better than caffeine at that and a very clear stimulation, Euphoric but not mind blowing Euphoria. The stimulation starts to fade and later on you feel a slight Nod, I find Kratom puts me to sleep. The Body high can be quite nice on Kratom, your muscles and joints tingle. But when Compared to Vicodin, Hydrocodone it is milder because yea you feel good stimulated but your clear functional and like your not drugged up, On high doages of Kratom people probably cant even tell your on something but with Vicodin they can . It has nice anxiolytic and Antidepressant effects.

aguythatlikessmoke
30-11-2013, 18:26
When you say you take kratom one night do you mean one night then not again for several days/weeks or every night? If it's the latter how do you know you're not addicted?

As I mentioned your comparisons to other opiates are lost on me since I havent tried them.

Still appreciated as I got some usefull tidbits from your reply.

I used Kratom last week one day and just one day this week. I find it is less addictive and less damaging to me than weed and I enjoy Kratom more. As the Marijuana high can bring Paranoia and anxiety to some Users and it impairs your memory more and your functionality. It is more of a cloudy high Weed compared to Kratom. As I stated Kratom is a clear high, with a bit of sedation and a dreamy state but it doesn't effect motor skills memory etc like Alcohol. I dont find Kratom particularly addictive. As I said many things depend on it, Especially self control you can use it 2-3 times a month the extract or you can use powdered Kratom a couple of times up 7 times a month you won't have problems with addiction just do it max 1 a week and you'll be fine leave a few days inbetween usage the Hangovers on Kratom are mild and at times if used occasionally you experience a pleasant Afterglow from Kratom . Self Control.

I know I am not addicted because I'm not craving it too much mentally nor physically it hits me once every 2-3 days maybe I Should use Kratom but its not a strong URGE like OMG I have to, its a feeling like If I want to I can use it but I dont have to. I used it in the evening occasionally to help with Sleep and relaxation.

Vicodin, Hydrocodone I have tried and Codeine. Vicodin in higher dosages like for me its a more drugged up feeling, Nausea, Sedation, Memory loss, yea Euphoria but also Stronger Intoxication than Kratom. Kratom depending on the dosages is a mild to moderate intoxicating agent that you can enjoy.

Some food For thought though here in Europe, In my Country I can buy Codeine Cough Syrup OTC no prescription Codeine is OTC>

odjowjdjia
30-11-2013, 19:30
Thanks for info. Your usage sounds similar to how I'd be interested in using it.

I also hate the effects of weed, the paranoia but even the high i feel mentally disabled for the duration. I love the sound of a clearheaded downer cos all the other downers i tried made me foggy and sluggish.

And also alcohol well we all know what shit that is.


I used Kratom last week one day and just one day this week. I find it is less addictive and less damaging to me than weed and I enjoy Kratom more. As the Marijuana high can bring Paranoia and anxiety to some Users and it impairs your memory more and your functionality. It is more of a cloudy high Weed compared to Kratom. As I stated Kratom is a clear high, with a bit of sedation and a dreamy state but it doesn't effect motor skills memory etc like Alcohol. I dont find Kratom particularly addictive. As I said many things depend on it, Especially self control you can use it 2-3 times a month the extract or you can use powdered Kratom a couple of times up 7 times a month you won't have problems with addiction just do it max 1 a week and you'll be fine leave a few days inbetween usage the Hangovers on Kratom are mild and at times if used occasionally you experience a pleasant Afterglow from Kratom . Self Control.

I know I am not addicted because I'm not craving it too much mentally nor physically it hits me once every 2-3 days maybe I Should use Kratom but its not a strong URGE like OMG I have to, its a feeling like If I want to I can use it but I dont have to. I used it in the evening occasionally to help with Sleep and relaxation.

Vicodin, Hydrocodone I have tried and Codeine. Vicodin in higher dosages like for me its a more drugged up feeling, Nausea, Sedation, Memory loss, yea Euphoria but also Stronger Intoxication than Kratom. Kratom depending on the dosages is a mild to moderate intoxicating agent that you can enjoy.

Some food For thought though here in Europe, In my Country I can buy Codeine Cough Syrup OTC no prescription Codeine is OTC>

liftedgift
30-11-2013, 20:39
No I use it everyday, I'm addicted. Been almost 2 years and no stomach/liver issues. It's not bad financially either, I order from a few sources. One being an Indonesian supplier which is the cheapest I can find. I use on average 15-20g a day sometimes a lot less. Not trying to downplay it though, there is a withdrawal but I just feel more comfortable using it everyday than worrying about what day it is and if I can use again.

I've noticed when I'm using phenibut I forget about kratom withdrawals, the only symptom I get is tired legs and runny nose. It is that mild when I take a GABAergic.

I mean tolerance doesn't increase like some drugs, If you are using certain substances every day and you take 2x the amount one night, the next night your maintenance dose or the amount you need to take to fend off withdrawals will increase. With kratom plain leaf this doesn't happen. I can take 30gs one night and be contempt with 10gs the next with no problems.

Now if your talking kratom extracts, like golden reserve/FST/UEI then you might as well be talking about a totally different drug. I would not use extracts more than once a week. Tolerance sky rockets and they are pricey. But they feel way more like an actual opiate than plain leaf.

I really wouldn't worry about kratom addiction too much, if you use 1 or 2 or even 3 times a week I'd say you won't get any physical withdrawal.

Snake_Eyes
01-12-2013, 00:39
How addicting is it? I mean it's going to be different from person to person but imo it is less addicting than opiates. Although I chose to use it everyday to keep me off other stuff. It's more addicting than weed in the sense that it does have a withdrawal that does suck but is bearable with other non opiate medications.

But I've given some to multiple people and I'd say 90% of them didn't enjoy it as most won't feel anything and continue to take some until they get sick. If you are eating plain leaf, it's not a really powerful drug and won't blow your socks off by any means. I think people expect more from plain leaf than it has to offer which makes it seem shitty. I can take 3-5gs and feel euphoric.

The best part of plain leaf kratom is tolerance is very forgiving, my tolerance has been pretty much the same for a year now and I can eat a lot one day and not so much the next and still have good effects.

As for the nausea, I never get stomach troubles with it. Although many do for whatever reason. I would be willing to bet making tea would eliminate any factors that might contribute to stomach pains.

My experience has been the exact opposite. Every person other than one who threw up from the texture has enjoyed it. All of them has previous opiate experience ranging from rare recreation use to former addict. The addict was the only one that had a true taste for it. Before he got locked back up he was going though about 100 grams a week.

banana king 84
01-12-2013, 01:00
I'm a lot like you in that I am relatively opiate-naive and don't enjoy marijuana. I've tried kratom perhaps 10 times, didn't feel anything the first attempts (used a liquid form) but later bought some powdered leaf from a place in California. I take around 8 grams (measured on a digital scale) on an empty stomach and feel effects about 30 minutes later, peaking in an hour or 2 and gradually fading to baseline by hour 4. I think I am finished using it because I become irritable and restless after the initial buzz, which while definitely noticeable isn't as powerful as, say Benzedrex (which is bad for other reasons), or alcohol. The thing that makes me know it's working is a slight ringing in my ears as if I took Vicodin, and I lose focus in the eyes (called the wobbles I've seen). I can't read a book or watch a movie on it as I can't sit still and become too bored. It only works for me on an empty stomach, eating an hour later seems to enhance it, but if you attempt to redose it won't work and will only increase the restlessness. I almost experience nausea at higher doses but not like kava, which was just awful with that. I think that it's better not to do it as I could see that buzz is definelty subtle like an opiate which could be seditious if you aren't aware of it. Also, it's drawing more attention than it should, a kava bar in Florida is being sued for a woman's addiction to a kratom drink served there:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/700879-New-Drug-That%E2%80%99s-As-Addictive-As-Heroin-And-Perfectly-Legal

odjowjdjia
04-12-2013, 20:52
I'd really like to try this but I am shitting myself at the thought of 'physical addiction'. All my drugs of choice in the past have just been psychologically addictive...dopamine stims being my particular groove.

I definitely don't have a track record for being addicted to stuff but this sounds like it could be easy to make a habit of. ie at least with coke it was prohibitively expensive and illegal etc. I don't need outside forces rather than exercising willpower but I am very pessimistic and always thinking of worst case scenarios, but likewise the life of sobriety is also driving me insane; feels like a double bind, fucked either way.

Nowadays I find any sort of comedown intolerable so have had to put stims on the shelf.

It seems that physical addiction is characteristic of downers...nearly all/all of them have it don't they. ghb, phenibut, benzoes, opiates, alcohol. Why is it that downers are physically addictive but uppers arent even the strongest ones? Or is it more a case that all drugs are but you just can't take uppers long enough in a run for them to cause the same levels of physical addiction which downers do?

I seem to have a very paranoid disposition and so even if a downer chills me out for the duration Im on it I worry that each time I take it Id be creeping closer and closer to physical addiction. Is it like having a stim comedown but lasting much much longer? If that is the case then it defeats the object of me wanting to take downers. Ive had benzoes before but I didnt enjoy the feeling, only used them for sleep once or twice after stims so no worry of getting addicted to them. I am scared that if I like kratom each time I take it Ill just be further reinforcing a bad habit and pushing myself closer to dreaded physical addiction. Is this a realistic fear?

It sucks cos Im really gagging for a new drug of choice and the non addictive alternatives I know of really suck shit- kanna- yaaaawn booooring serotonin dump, weed- nono for my already highly strung personality, kava kava- only lasts like 15 minutes and don't really like the 'stoning' effect prefer clear headed highs. Ppl give me the stupid empty phrase that I should get a hobby or go running. I tried that junk it doesnt cut it! don't give me that shit! and dont you dare give me the 'get therapy' line! I'm not paying 100 dollars an hour just to have my ego stroked! thats what a good stimulant is for and does it way better!

gingerbaker
05-12-2013, 04:15
I'd really like to try this but I am shitting myself at the thought of 'physical addiction'. All my drugs of choice in the past have just been psychologically addictive...dopamine stims being my particular groove.

I definitely don't have a track record for being addicted to stuff but this sounds like it could be easy to make a habit of. ie at least with coke it was prohibitively expensive and illegal etc. I don't need outside forces rather than exercising willpower but I am very pessimistic and always thinking of worst case scenarios, but likewise the life of sobriety is also driving me insane; feels like a double bind, fucked either way.

Nowadays I find any sort of comedown intolerable so have had to put stims on the shelf.

It seems that physical addiction is characteristic of downers...nearly all/all of them have it don't they. ghb, phenibut, benzoes, opiates, alcohol. Why is it that downers are physically addictive but uppers arent even the strongest ones? Or is it more a case that all drugs are but you just can't take uppers long enough in a run for them to cause the same levels of physical addiction which downers do?

I seem to have a very paranoid disposition and so even if a downer chills me out for the duration Im on it I worry that each time I take it Id be creeping closer and closer to physical addiction. Is it like having a stim comedown but lasting much much longer? If that is the case then it defeats the object of me wanting to take downers. Ive had benzoes before but I didnt enjoy the feeling, only used them for sleep once or twice after stims so no worry of getting addicted to them. I am scared that if I like kratom each time I take it Ill just be further reinforcing a bad habit and pushing myself closer to dreaded physical addiction. Is this a realistic fear?

It sucks cos Im really gagging for a new drug of choice and the non addictive alternatives I know of really suck shit- kanna- yaaaawn booooring serotonin dump, weed- nono for my already highly strung personality, kava kava- only lasts like 15 minutes and don't really like the 'stoning' effect prefer clear headed highs. Ppl give me the stupid empty phrase that I should get a hobby or go running. I tried that junk it doesnt cut it! don't give me that shit! and dont you dare give me the 'get therapy' line! I'm not paying 100 dollars an hour just to have my ego stroked! thats what a good stimulant is for and does it way better!
First of all, kava does NOT "suck shit" if you're doing it right which it doesn't sound like you are. Order real root from a good vendor and work through the reverse tolerance and I can guarantee you that you will find the best non-addictive substance (even less psychological dependence than MJ, and literally zero withdrawal of ANY kind).

That being said, Kratom withdrawal is very mild compared to real opioids if used reasonably. I would recommend kava over kratom if you are concerned with withdrawal, and hell, there are even somewhat "upper"-like kava strains (Hawaiian strains, Solomon's Island, CO2 extract, Fijian Waka from certain vendors, among others). If you don't want as much of a sedative effect (if those give you too much "stony" feeling), then try kratom because that will definitely have more of the effect you're after (again, depending on the strain).

odjowjdjia
05-12-2013, 12:56
cheers. Not to hijack the thread but i cant send pms... how long does kava last for you? cos for the 15 minutes it lasted for me the times i tried it wasnt worth chugging all that junk and even increasing dose/redosing wasnt realistic cos it would make me more and more nauseous.

Ye so worst case scenarios regarding kratom in terms of withdrawal how could you explain them to me if i have no experience of other opiates so i could get a reference point? aches and pains are alright but its the depression i am afraid of cos i already have constant pervasive depression and wanted to use it on and off as an acute anti depressant as an alternative to becoming a 'carreer' pharmaceutical user if i went to the doctors. i have just bad bouts of depression so i dont wanna be taking some chemical shit 24/7 doing who knows what for my long term brain chemistry. i thought kratom could be a natural alternative that would work right away and i could use just when in a deep bout or now and then to keep me upbeat and productive to prevent future bouts- its just a break, some kind of sancrtuary that im after that would alleviate my mental anguish. but if the rebound after cessasion causes bad depression like post mdma mental blitzkrieg that was just so aweful i never want to feel like that again.

Also in terms of avoiding the physical dependency is a good rule of thumb just not to do it while the previous dose is in your system? that would mean a cpl of days for near complete removal right?

I like to play it better safe than sorry so maybe ill try and get something out of kava kava before trying kratom. Also ive figured if i can make something of a non dependence inducing substance i will also have something as a safety net if i decide to try a more addictive substance.


First of all, kava does NOT "suck shit" if you're doing it right which it doesn't sound like you are. Order real root from a good vendor and work through the reverse tolerance and I can guarantee you that you will find the best non-addictive substance (even less psychological dependence than MJ, and literally zero withdrawal of ANY kind).

That being said, Kratom withdrawal is very mild compared to real opioids if used reasonably. I would recommend kava over kratom if you are concerned with withdrawal, and hell, there are even somewhat "upper"-like kava strains (Hawaiian strains, Solomon's Island, CO2 extract, Fijian Waka from certain vendors, among others). If you don't want as much of a sedative effect (if those give you too much "stony" feeling), then try kratom because that will definitely have more of the effect you're after (again, depending on the strain).

liftedgift
05-12-2013, 20:14
Its good that you are worried about addiction. However if you can use kratom maybe 2 or 3 times a week never consecutive days. I really doubt you would develop a strong physical addiction. It took me about 2 weeks of daily use to feel the physical withdrawal. But for me, dealing with it is better than worrying about what day it is and when I can take some next.

The withdrawal is aches/pains/runny nose/extreme extreme fatigue for me. Absolutely zero motivation to do anything. Any GABAergic takes a lot of it away. So if you did get to the point where you were physically dependent. You could use benzos for 2 days/ then maybe phenibut for 2 days. Or you could just taper.

As I said its good that you are afraid as it does have a withdrawal that is no picnic. But I really think you are overestimating the time and the severity of the withdrawal.

Oh and Kava can help with withdrawals too, there is a thread discussing the best way to take kava. I'm still new to kava as well and find that the best results are with the regular ground root. Extracts seem to only last for 20-30 mins for me. I have done kava multiple times and only one time did I get this overwhelming drunk feeling that I had never gotten before. That was when I would just put the ground root powder in my lip and let it sit there like a pinch of tobacco. There are better ways with making it into drinks and such I just haven't tried yet.

gingerbaker
05-12-2013, 20:35
Its good that you are worried about addiction. However if you can use kratom maybe 2 or 3 times a week never consecutive days. I really doubt you would develop a strong physical addiction. It took me about 2 weeks of daily use to feel the physical withdrawal. But for me, dealing with it is better than worrying about what day it is and when I can take some next.

The withdrawal is aches/pains/runny nose/extreme extreme fatigue for me. Absolutely zero motivation to do anything. Any GABAergic takes a lot of it away. So if you did get to the point where you were physically dependent. You could use benzos for 2 days/ then maybe phenibut for 2 days. Or you could just taper.

Have you ever had success with using stems and veins to help taper/combat withdrawal? Also, how much were you using when you had those symptoms and was it extract of leaf?

odjowjdjia
05-12-2013, 22:17
Cheers for info. In terms of usage didnt you or someone else say that it doesnt cause cravings like other drugs? I mean its all very well and good saying only do a cpl times a week but when you're high often the rules seem like a ridiculous precaution and before you know it you are kicking yourself for getting carried away. was like that with stims but im a noob to downers so wouldnt know how it is on that front. I know ive read that kratom is good for it not producing cravings like other drugs. As ive said tho in the past self control hasnt been a prob for me.

Also does it have a hangover of sorts if you overdo it? I think thats a good thing as it would ward me against wanting to do it all the time or overdoing it. I dont mean the naesea or whatever in a single dose but like a next day hangover? and can it be avoided thru moderate usage? like how with beer you can have two and not feel it the next day but more than that is pushing it. Thats one reason i hate benzoes in that any dose would leave me feeling like a zombie for all the next day.


Its good that you are worried about addiction. However if you can use kratom maybe 2 or 3 times a week never consecutive days. I really doubt you would develop a strong physical addiction. It took me about 2 weeks of daily use to feel the physical withdrawal. But for me, dealing with it is better than worrying about what day it is and when I can take some next.

The withdrawal is aches/pains/runny nose/extreme extreme fatigue for me. Absolutely zero motivation to do anything. Any GABAergic takes a lot of it away. So if you did get to the point where you were physically dependent. You could use benzos for 2 days/ then maybe phenibut for 2 days. Or you could just taper.

As I said its good that you are afraid as it does have a withdrawal that is no picnic. But I really think you are overestimating the time and the severity of the withdrawal.

Oh and Kava can help with withdrawals too, there is a thread discussing the best way to take kava. I'm still new to kava as well and find that the best results are with the regular ground root. Extracts seem to only last for 20-30 mins for me. I have done kava multiple times and only one time did I get this overwhelming drunk feeling that I had never gotten before. That was when I would just put the ground root powder in my lip and let it sit there like a pinch of tobacco. There are better ways with making it into drinks and such I just haven't tried yet.

gingerbaker
05-12-2013, 22:38
Cheers for info. In terms of usage didnt you or someone else say that it doesnt cause cravings like other drugs? I mean its all very well and good saying only do a cpl times a week but when you're high often the rules seem like a ridiculous precaution and before you know it you are kicking yourself for getting carried away. was like that with stims but im a noob to downers so wouldnt know how it is on that front. I know ive read that kratom is good for it not producing cravings like other drugs. As ive said tho in the past self control hasnt been a prob for me.

Also does it have a hangover of sorts if you overdo it? I think thats a good thing as it would ward me against wanting to do it all the time or overdoing it. I dont mean the naesea or whatever in a single dose but like a next day hangover? and can it be avoided thru moderate usage? Thats one reason i hate benzoes in that any dose would leave me feeling like a zombie for all the next day.
If you're referring to kava, then yes, it has been shown to have anti-craving effects. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12180513)

Kratom does have some NMDA antagonist activity, but there not enough to claim that it reduces cravings on a pharmacological level. That being said, it is much less addicting than other substances that bind to μ-opioid receptors. I've had a migraine-like hangover the 1st time I tried it, but only that one time and it seems to have been coincidental although I wouldn't doubt there is a hangover if used in excess. In fact, it seems to actually have an "afterglow" the next day where you actually feel much better the next day.

odjowjdjia
06-12-2013, 00:09
ye i was referring to kratom. i have experience with kava and already know how benign it is :).

its quite confusing all the Ks of similar types of compounds- kava kratom and kanna. :P


If you're referring to kava, then yes, it has been shown to have anti-craving effects. (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12180513)

Kratom does have some NMDA antagonist activity, but there not enough to claim that it reduces cravings on a pharmacological level. That being said, it is much less addicting than other substances that bind to μ-opioid receptors. I've had a migraine-like hangover the 1st time I tried it, but only that one time and it seems to have been coincidental although I wouldn't doubt there is a hangover if used in excess. In fact, it seems to actually have an "afterglow" the next day where you actually feel much better the next day.

liftedgift
06-12-2013, 09:52
I started using kratom because I was put on probation. I hated being sober at the time...might have been going through benzo PAWS now that I think about it but anyway I found kratom and it gave me so much motivation. I started with plain leaf so it wasn't like some blow you back in your seat high, it really helped me at work as I loved talking to people and it gave me so much energy. So yes I did crave it for the motivation.

I've ordered stem and vein a few times and had success with it. It definitely feels different, and yes it would be good for a taper.

I mostly use plain leaf, I use to indulge in extracts pretty often maybe once a week or once every two weeks. But I haven't had any extracts for a few months now though as they are just too expensive for me right now. They are really good though, it is a really nice experience when you get good extracts.

As for a hangover, the only time I really experienced a noticeable hangover was when I ate 30-40grams the first time I tried kratom. It was horrible as I couldn't fall asleep for some reason, I just kept waking up really messed up and had to go to work the next morning. Although I started using daily probably within a month of first trying it.

Just make sure you order from a good vendor, when I first started ordering kratom I would get a good batch and then order from someone else and get a bad batch. I thought my tolerance was so high that I wasn't feeling it...I still have nearly 500 grams of some god awful kratom. Worst stuff I've ever had. The only good it did me was lower my tolerance to basically nothing after two weeks of eating it. So I tapered without knowing it lol.

Try out different strains. Ive had a few but I always loved Bali. Thai for me is really good at first but if I keep eating it I get these weird moments of intense frustration. Some people say that all the strains feel the same but they all have their differences imo. Malaysian never did me good. Maeng Da is pretty sedating for me.

One thing though, it seems the more you use kratom the more stimulating it is. As Bali for me now always gets me going ready to work as it used to make me fall asleep.

gingerbaker
06-12-2013, 20:48
How exactly is it good for a taper? What about using a small amount with the normal amount of leaf (would that decrease tolerance)? What are the effects like by themselves?

liftedgift
06-12-2013, 23:17
Yes you can taper by just lowering the amount gradually with any leaf. The reason people prefer maybe stem and vein is because it can be weaker. Because when you taper with a strong leaf or any drug for that matter, you are probably going to fight off temptation to get a "high". With a weaker leaf you find an amount you can stave off withdrawals without actually getting a good feeling. Maybe with stem and vein it doesn't really give you euphoria at any dose and it just fights off withdrawals. Not saying stem and vein can't get you feeling good as I liked it.

Now you could find this amount with any leaf I suppose but the voice in your head might be saying well if I just take a few more grams I can get euphoria.

2112acid
09-12-2013, 09:49
Hey BL, I have been researching Kratom for the past couple of weeks and have decided to use it to take place of a daily smoking (mj) habit for a while. I do not like the experiences I have had with opiates, but I do like a buzz and some mild stimulation. I feel like that is what mj gives me at the moment, my tolerance is stupid and i need a 3+ month break badly. The kratom, I assume will help me with physical labor pains, stimulation and just adding some more light to my day.

Id like to share my experience from over the weekend, got Maeng Da Thai red powder on friday. Saturday I dosed around 8g, felt great but also had bad nausea within an hour, puked, felt pretty good for the next couple of hours and redosed at 2g for a very relaxed evening until I tried to drink a cider and threw up again. Sunday, I dosed at 5g after I woke up, puked within an hour again, felt great for the rest of the day dosed twice more with breaks of four hours. I use tobacco daily (usually dip, sometimes smoking), for the whole weekend I had no desire to use any tobacco which is incredibly strange. I had no desire to drink either, which is weird because I usually do on weekends. I havn't really been that high at all, just a mild euphoria (was more than mild on the 8g, before I threw up), a nice stimulating feeling to the head and a nice refreshing energy flowing through me.

The worst thing by far has been the uncomfortable stomach feeling (like a bunch of oil sitting in my stomach), and that only happened when I took too much (8g, then 5g). Like many have said in this thread, I think there is definitely a sweet spot that may be different for various people and I intend to find it for myself. I am most definitely going to try the tea, the toss and wash method is ok, but like others have said do you really want all those grainy particles sitting in your stomach? Im really happy that i have no desire to use tobacco, ive actually been trying to quit for the last few months or so, and I think this is finally it. I listen to quite a lot of music daily, and it definitely has an improved quality to it while on Kratom (somehow different than thc). I havnt been turning on my heat which is weird, im much more comfortable in the cold which is unusual for me.

One thing I am interested in is what is the most cost effective strain (generally speaking, I understand not every vendor has the same exact strength of strains). From what i've read so far it seems to be 15x extract, bali, Maeng Da and Indo. Also i gather that most of the premium strains/premium extracts are definitely not cost effective, would like to hear some more opinions anyway.
thanks for all the info guys.

FlawedByDesign
09-12-2013, 18:54
^IME Bali reigns supreme when it comes to cost effectiveness as well as terms of effects. Maeng Da is grossly overpriced, its does have a nice euphoria but it's very short lived. The only extract that I've found to be worth the money is Ultra Enhanced Indo or UEI but in the long run it's better to stick with high quality leaf as extracts will send your tolerance through the roof. The beautiful thing about kratom is that you can take it daily for long peroids of time without developing much of a tolerance(this was my experience anyways, others may disagree). After coming off of suboxone I was able to keep my daily intake at 25 grams for 8-9 months.

2112acid
23-12-2013, 02:49
Damn, well 25 grams seems insane to me, I dont think I top 10grams daily, but then again I have never had an opiate tolerance so that is probably a huge part of it. Anyway, just wanted to give an update, very happy with what Kratom has helped me achieve in a short time, I was able to stop smoking (mj) without much trouble, did get a bit pissed for a week but who wouldn't, the Kratom kept me in a fairly good mood and no back pains. I also quit tabacco at the same time without much trouble, I did jones for a couple days but it wasn't too bad while I was on Kratom and my mind was usually preoccupied with other things. I think thats what is so great about Kratom, it keeps you clear minded and sharp, in that state I always keep myself occupied, usually with a book, practicing drawing/music, listening to music, browsing the web, having a retarded conversation with someone on this forum (thought they were someone completely different, it was a weird experience), and playing some video games (which was usually my favorite past-time while high). I've probably bee dosing around 3grams 2-3 times a day depending on how I feel, usually twice once in the morning and once after work. It is an awesome work aid (for physical labor and writing/drawing), kept me sharp and in a good mood with plenty of energy. I woke up a couple times with a headache in the back of my skull, but I can attribute that to anything, not just Kratom and I dont think I ever really got hungover while on it. Really the only downside to this plant is the texture, and the insolubility to water. Many times just due to lack of time, I had to do the Toss&Wash method... and man every time I can feel it just sitting at the bottom of my stomach not really getting processed through, a very uncomfortable feeling, but I only *really* noticed it when my dose was above 3g. If it just dissolved in water, im sure it would not have the same grainy effect of settling in your stomach. Im planning on finishing this current batch, then just going sober and seeing how that is. Either way, I had a very positive experience with this stuff, I would recommend it to anyone that needs an extra stimulant type boost or needs something to come off of opiates/ease pain. Also I never read it about being an aid to quit tabacco, but anyone looking to quit try it out it might work for you like it did for me... goodbye, five year tobacco habit, ye shall be missed.

《Plasticity》
23-12-2013, 03:42
^IME Bali reigns supreme when it comes to cost effectiveness as well as terms of effects. Maeng Da is grossly overpriced, its does have a nice euphoria but it's very short lived. The only extract that I've found to be worth the money is Ultra Enhanced Indo or UEI but in the long run it's better to stick with high quality leaf as extracts will send your tolerance through the roof. The beautiful thing about kratom is that you can take it daily for long peroids of time without developing much of a tolerance(this was my experience anyways, others may disagree). After coming off of suboxone I was able to keep my daily intake at 25 grams for 8-9 months.

I agree with everything said in this post

However realize that you may be trading one addiction for another and this one actually brings withdrawals with it. Kratom withdrawals aren't as bad as opiate withdrawals but they still suck pretty bad. I started off at 5 grams a day and now I average around 24g now but that's due to increasing the number of doses per day as opposed to increasing the actual dose much. Also kratom synergizes with weed like no other mu agonist for some reason so know that your likely gonna walk outta this with a cannabis and kratom addiction if you go back to smoking herb. If it helps you quit tobacco then I'd say go for it, IMO kratom is definately the lesser of the two evils and actually provides something in return like energy, mood boost, and euphoria. Also make the switch to the tea, you won't regret it. It just feels so much cleaner and I don't get any nausea anymore. There's no excuse for not making tea really. Just make a whole days worth in the morning and divide up the doses. Takes about 20 minutes and you've got your whole days worth. Make sure you strain the powder through a t-shirt or chesecloth though or it makes the process pretty useless.

crunkazcanbe
23-12-2013, 03:50
I find kratom to be quite useless. I have a simi tolerance to opiates and thought I would still get a decent buzz from it I bought 25 grams of Ultra Enhanced Indo - UEI for $199 from a respective dealer and to say the least I can take 15 grams of the nasty tasting stuff at once and feel nothing other then dizziness and sickness to the belly and some uncomfortable stimulation. I have tried the x50 extract to same thing I have tried many different types and kinds and find it to cost more then just buy Roxies aka Oxycodone off the street. And absolutely no euphoria from kratom. I did find some research chemicals AH-7921 and MT-45 that actually offer way more euphoria then kratom comparable to codeine . And AH And MT together offers euphoria comparable to oxycodone more then morphine. Oh almost forgot to mention the AH and MT are both alot cheaper then kratom.

1mtx1
23-12-2013, 05:01
I will be honest i never heard of this stuff, i did look around on the web looks like this has taken the place of spice at most local headshops. I live in Ny and that spice stuff was getting out of hand, i know if i try to go buy it from a local place that is if i can find one i would pay major bucks. I have a few simple questions and i hope you guys can help
1 -does this come up in a drug test?
2- i see this come's in a few different forms such as pill's is there any one that is better?
3 i found Premium Commercial Bali 1oz and White Vein Borneo oz all so i found malay 1 oz what would be best for a feel good upper high that i tend to get when i take a larger amount of pain meds?
4-would i just add this to water how about a cola and drink it? lol thanks

FBI AGENT
23-12-2013, 06:04
Does anyone know a good dose for Ultra Red Indo? I tried searching but no avail

Hiltoniano
24-12-2013, 09:01
I will be honest i never heard of this stuff, i did look around on the web looks like this has taken the place of spice at most local headshops. I live in Ny and that spice stuff was getting out of hand, i know if i try to go buy it from a local place that is if i can find one i would pay major bucks. I have a few simple questions and i hope you guys can help
1 -does this come up in a drug test?
2- i see this come's in a few different forms such as pill's is there any one that is better?
3 i found Premium Commercial Bali 1oz and White Vein Borneo oz all so i found malay 1 oz what would be best for a feel good upper high that i tend to get when i take a larger amount of pain meds?
4-would i just add this to water how about a cola and drink it? lol thanks

Mate, read through this thread and previous versions. Read erowid reports and the wiki. All these questions really can be answered with Google easily or already stated in previous parts on this thread or related ones. Sorry not trying to be rude but why waste time if the answers are all out there realistically easy to find ;) gl and nobody knows what strain will effect YOU the most or least but look at some posts and find trends along reports by people on some strains.

2112acid
25-12-2013, 08:27
I agree with everything said in this post

However realize that you may be trading one addiction for another and this one actually brings withdrawals with it. Kratom withdrawals aren't as bad as opiate withdrawals but they still suck pretty bad. I started off at 5 grams a day and now I average around 24g now but that's due to increasing the number of doses per day as opposed to increasing the actual dose much. Also kratom synergizes with weed like no other mu agonist for some reason so know that your likely gonna walk outta this with a cannabis and kratom addiction if you go back to smoking herb. If it helps you quit tobacco then I'd say go for it, IMO kratom is definately the lesser of the two evils and actually provides something in return like energy, mood boost, and euphoria. Also make the switch to the tea, you won't regret it. It just feels so much cleaner and I don't get any nausea anymore. There's no excuse for not making tea really. Just make a whole days worth in the morning and divide up the doses. Takes about 20 minutes and you've got your whole days worth. Make sure you strain the powder through a t-shirt or chesecloth though or it makes the process pretty useless.

Thanks very much for the warning, I can actually see an addiction setting in right now haha. It's a great little tool, I enjoyed using it very much. I just posted to give people a little recap of my experience, I don't plan on ordering anymore at the moment, possibly in the future but it has helped me out a good deal and I enjoyed using it. Much more than opiates actually, which I have never enjoyed really doing, I mean they feel great cant deny that but I hate basically sinking into my couch for a few hours its so much more enjoyable to be high and doing something active. Yes it did indeed help me quit Tobacco I hope some other people can try this out for themselves, it was an amazing tool I didn't think about having any while I was high. I would indeed also recommend switching to tea to anyone that experiences discomfort in the stomach, it helps although I still got a bit sick when I overdid it with tea. Also in my couple weeks of using it I never really got withdrawl symptoms aside from being a bit groggy, and possibly a headache or two... which was amazing, I didnt use it everyday but 5/7 days of the week with multiple doses.

Im sure me and Kratom will see each other in the future again, hopefully with some cannabis but I definetly see the potential addiction setting in, its easy to get, I can use it all day wherever I am and its just a great fall back for whatever mood im in. It was a nice couple weeks though thats for sure, heres to going sober for the next few months hopefully cheers everyone.

banana king 84
25-12-2013, 23:21
Merry Christmas BLers, just wanted to add my experience to anyone experimenting with kratom for recreational use. The last week I've used powdered leaf 3 occasions. I used 5 grams premium samsara Wednesday night & felt good, then Christmas Eve got off work at noon and decided to finish the Samasara (5 gram) with 5 gram of Bali, verrry nice, stronger than Vicodin in my experience, felt very sociable & energetic as I finished X-mas shopping, which is something I usually don't enjoy. Well, I took it around 1:30 on an empty stomach, and never ate anything besides the yogurt I mixed the kratom with, & by 5 I was crashing, nauseous, shaky, a little dizzy, and lethargic, which made the earlier euphoria I experienced seem not worth it.
Today I took 8 grams Bali in the morning before breakfast, ate 30 minutes later. Never really got the euphoria but did feel energized, baked some lasagna and felt good but once again got some nausea and lethargy, laid down and you could say I nodded a bit but not really distinguishable from a regular nap. I really thought kratom could be more of a functional high than it's been, the first 3 or 4 hrs are ok but I could do without the side effects. I have been taking it toss and wash or mixing it in a bottle with white grapefruit juice. I would describe the feeling as contentment, a warm feeling over the chest with a nice head buzz, it reminds me of when I smoked cigarettes, the contented feeling in my brain after feeding the addiction, alert and peaceful, not jumping out of my skin and irritable like with too much caffeine. I've had a s much as 13 grams in a day and that made me jittery and uncomfortable but not dizzy or nauseous, so it looks as if my body's acclimating to it. I was never impressed with kratom because I used alcohol as the comparison, and while alcohol used to give me a nice buzz like kratom years ago, today it makes me more tired and sloppy than alert and alive. And kratom's only given me a nice buzz when taken on an empty stomach, not really the most versatile drug I must say. An since it's probably not the best idea to play around with something that messes with your mu receptors like opiates, I'm thinkin' this will be it for me and kratom, oh well

1mtx1
26-12-2013, 04:09
I agree i just heard of this when i posted to this thread. I wanted more info, i read many pages but still was unsure. I had a few more days to do more looking and i think i got what i was looking for. You where nice about it lol, I did place my first order today and i just want to know if anyone has tried this type called White Vein Borneo? I was set on the Green Malay but after hearing from a few people the Malay can make you tired and to be honest i am not looking for that at this time. The vendor i used gave a overview of each type but with anything i am sure they will do the best to hype there item. So i went threw all the types and based on the scale i read the White Vein Borneo is energizing as well as has euphoric effects. Now sure that can be said with all this stuff right? Well it kinda like had a scale and the mayla had more Euphoric but less energizing effects all so the Analgesic was higher for the mayla. Pretty much the White vein meet what i was looking for . A high energy/euphoric like effect and a low Analgesic . thanks

1mtx1
26-12-2013, 18:49
I know i just posted be fore but i thought instead of making a new thread i rather post again as this has nothing to do with my last post . I was set to try this stuff but like with anything it is best to do some research and i was lazy and asked some lazy questions the other night. So what i learned its bad to buy this Kratom from your local headshop. Well i really do not have a local one i have 3 that are about 30-40 min's away from me. So i called today and asked the first 2 places if they sold Kratom i was told yes. I asked if they had green Malay and what was the price? I was told by both places to come in and to be honest i understand its best to get people in there shop. So i called the 3rd , i once again asked the same question this time i was told they had to of the bigger sellers one was called Major Chill Down and Happy Face. I said to my self wtf is that stuff so i said what is Happyface? The woman said it one of there bigger sellers and she gave me a price and to be honest this fits in what i have heard not just here. You do not know what is in that stuff and it was 2.5x the amount i paid for my 1oz of White vein boreno . I am all about supporting the local guy well in this can its not local but you know what i mean. I just could not drive that far ,pay there crazy amount and then drink something i have no idea what it is. I would have to have poison control number near by . Anyways i just hope this can help anyone who is thinking about trying this and might have a head shop near you. i would stay clear of any thing that sounds funny. Kinda like how people will call weed all different names to hype what there selling. I guess just find a good seller and go from there.

Hiltoniano
26-12-2013, 19:37
Yea don't buy branded Kratom at headshops, huge waste of money and their products tend to be subpar

h1tman9196
26-12-2013, 21:02
My Situation:
I have been on oxy, subox, and hydrocodone. Suboxone is worse then doing the opiates themselves as the w/d from this is even worse than w/d from a 15 - 30mg roxy habit. Like yourself, I also had an endless supply or access to it. I have been to rehabs, admitted, etc...I have 4 children and a lovely wife who has put up with all this bullshit.
I have a post grad education and I am a professional. My injury was sports related in my undergrad, however I continued to use these opiates for so much longer after truly needing them.

I can tell you that its a tough road. However, you can mentally prepare yourself for complete w/d. I can go on about my situation, however I think you get the point.

Here is what I did the last time and some kind advice

1. I don't care what you hear or read about Kratom. But it works. Although it is a MU receptor natural drug, its not a pharmed complex. I took about 2 -50x concentrated Maeng Da "00" pills per day and 8-9 "00" 600mg Maeng Da capsules throughout the day. I used kratompills.com and thepepco.com for my sources. This stuff works. I felt almost zero w/d symptoms. If you can afford the habit you had, you can certainly afford these, buying them even at head shops. It took away 99% of my w/d. It also kept me in a nice mood to be able to deal with life. As I said previous, I have a professional career and a large family. I just couldn't be in bed and suffering PAWS around my children and wife for the 3rd time.
2. I took 5-10 Anti-Diarrhea pills per day.
3. I have mentally prepared myself for what could lie ahead. You should as well. Be a warrior. Be ready to feel a possible sickness. Although I am VERY confident if you follow my kratom/anti-diarrhea pill method, you will have success.
4. Get busy. Stay Busy. The more you are not thinking about drugs and when to take your next pills will make you that much more successful. A hobby, do some work around the house, take 15 showers, masturbate all day long...play video games.
5. Just know you can survive and have a life of fun and happiness without opiates. I can totally relate to wanting to feel that high, play some games and be social, but I can tell you living without the haze of the opiates is so much better. Although at first, you may have some depression and might not feel as this to the case.
6. Excercise and sweat as much as you can. This might be difficult at first, but start slow. Walk, then jog, then run.
7. You should do this regimen for no more than 3 weeks.
8. Get new friends. Ones that do not enable you. I have both still in my life. Normal wives with kids, buddies, etc...Then I have the friends who cannot seem to hang with me unless we are doing something. I am hanging out less and less with these folks. Having positive people around will bring positive effects on your personal life.

Reach out to me if you need any support and have questions. You can do this.

Bless,
TG