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Opioids The Kratom Mega Thread v3

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Im at the point of withdrawl.. of just mild depression.. and basically RLS nonstop.. I might get 4-5 hour break during a 24 hour period. The only thing that has helped that is gabapentin. But im out and dont see another doc for 2 weeks.. so im sorta fucked on that.
 
" No worse withdrawals than from coffee"- that's not saying a lot if you've ever seen a heavy caffeine addict trying to quit!
To the point- I've gone 14 days with only one dose on a "weak" day and I still have very noticeable w/d effects. Retching, shivers, sweats,legs like lead, kidney pain, and all the other opiate w/d symptoms we've come to know and love so well. I jumped off c/t from 30g of leaf per day, so I was expecting it to be a bit rough but Kratom w/d's suck- they just go on and on and I've relapsed today just for some relief (5g Maeng Da). I agree totally with ChemicalSmiles it doesn't matter what opiate it is, the more withdrawals you put yourself through the worse it gets each time.
 
When you guys withdraw from kratom does it ever tempt you to go onto harder drugs to 'ease the pain'. That has been one of my worries, that it really could be a gateway drugs to other opiates. Ive seen a few ppl on here complaining of kratom withdrawal who end up taking codeine and getting hooked to that. Kratom could get banned at any time at the whim of the government and I imagine if you'd got a taste for the opiate high you might still be wanting to scratch the itch once the source were cut off.

How would you guys compare physical withdrawal to a stim comedown is it worse/less? as that is the only reference I have.

Im at the point of withdrawl.. of just mild depression.. and basically RLS nonstop.. I might get 4-5 hour break during a 24 hour period. The only thing that has helped that is gabapentin. But im out and dont see another doc for 2 weeks.. so im sorta fucked on that.
 
When you guys withdraw from kratom does it ever tempt you to go onto harder drugs to 'ease the pain'. That has been one of my worries, that it really could be a gateway drugs to other opiates. Ive seen a few ppl on here complaining of kratom withdrawal who end up taking codeine and getting hooked to that. Kratom could get banned at any time at the whim of the government and I imagine if you'd got a taste for the opiate high you might still be wanting to scratch the itch once the source were cut off.


Good question. The short answer: Yes.

Using myself as an example, opiates are my weakness and have been since my first taste of percocet. Kratom has been a life saver in this sense because chances are I'd be dabbling in harder opiates more often, if not daily if it weren't for this godsend. When I first found percocet, I would fiendishly pop them like Skittles, and would stop at nothing to find more, good thing I didn't have a solid hook. I discovered poppy pods, and this got pretty bad for me as I got into a steadily increasing daily habit (which is extremely bad for pods) until I forced myself to quit CT. At this point, I still have very little restraint when I have opiates on hand, and now my tolerance is higher so I take a lot more at once, needless to say, I go through percocets like wildfire when I obtain some. Kratom is far more manageable than any other opioid.

Kratom seems to sit in this grey-area of drugs, meaning that it can have some intense and rather addicting effects while still having this ceiling that prevents you from throwing your whole life away on it. It just sort of stops working after a while and forces you to stop or taper down. I've gone through the withdrawals myself, and I'm convinced they are 90% psychological, however a psychological addiction can be harder to beat. When I have no kratom on hand, I'm extremely inclined to drink whiskey heavily, I smoke copious amounts of cannabis and if I happen to have opiates within reach, you bet your ass I'm eating all of them. It's mostly in my mind though, because the symptoms are only bad when I'm actively thinking about them. I've found myself to be plagued by RLS, insomnia, watery eyes, stuffy nose, back aches, cold sweats, all those classic W/D symptoms on some days without kratom, while on days that I'm properly distracted and not just sitting around, I experience almost none of this. After one simple day without kratom, I feel my tolerance decrease significantly and my next dose will be extremely satisfying no matter how my tolerance was 2 days ago. Not long ago, I was on a ~30g/day White Vein Maeng Da (strongest strain I've ever come across) and one day just stopped cold turkey for a week long trip to NY. The discomfort was minimal, distractions cured nearly everything, and within 2-3 days I forgot kratom existed. When I returned home, using kratom again was completely optional.


As far as comparison to a stim comedown, it's similar in some ways, probably not as intense in the anxiety sense, but can definitely manifest into bad thoughts/feelings. The fiending is there though, insomnia, depression, all that, but just doesn't last very long.

I would say kratom is still closer to coffee than pharm/street opiates, albeit definitely not the same as either one. It's in a class of it's own, and this becomes extremely apparent when you use an opiate and kratom in conjunction.
 
Hmm, an informative reply. Thanks.

Good question. The short answer: Yes.

Using myself as an example, opiates are my weakness and have been since my first taste of percocet. Kratom has been a life saver in this sense because chances are I'd be dabbling in harder opiates more often, if not daily if it weren't for this godsend. When I first found percocet, I would fiendishly pop them like Skittles, and would stop at nothing to find more, good thing I didn't have a solid hook. I discovered poppy pods, and this got pretty bad for me as I got into a steadily increasing daily habit (which is extremely bad for pods) until I forced myself to quit CT. At this point, I still have very little restraint when I have opiates on hand, and now my tolerance is higher so I take a lot more at once, needless to say, I go through percocets like wildfire when I obtain some. Kratom is far more manageable than any other opioid.

Kratom seems to sit in this grey-area of drugs, meaning that it can have some intense and rather addicting effects while still having this ceiling that prevents you from throwing your whole life away on it. It just sort of stops working after a while and forces you to stop or taper down. I've gone through the withdrawals myself, and I'm convinced they are 90% psychological, however a psychological addiction can be harder to beat. When I have no kratom on hand, I'm extremely inclined to drink whiskey heavily, I smoke copious amounts of cannabis and if I happen to have opiates within reach, you bet your ass I'm eating all of them. It's mostly in my mind though, because the symptoms are only bad when I'm actively thinking about them. I've found myself to be plagued by RLS, insomnia, watery eyes, stuffy nose, back aches, cold sweats, all those classic W/D symptoms on some days without kratom, while on days that I'm properly distracted and not just sitting around, I experience almost none of this. After one simple day without kratom, I feel my tolerance decrease significantly and my next dose will be extremely satisfying no matter how my tolerance was 2 days ago. Not long ago, I was on a ~30g/day White Vein Maeng Da (strongest strain I've ever come across) and one day just stopped cold turkey for a week long trip to NY. The discomfort was minimal, distractions cured nearly everything, and within 2-3 days I forgot kratom existed. When I returned home, using kratom again was completely optional.


As far as comparison to a stim comedown, it's similar in some ways, probably not as intense in the anxiety sense, but can definitely manifest into bad thoughts/feelings. The fiending is there though, insomnia, depression, all that, but just doesn't last very long.

I would say kratom is still closer to coffee than pharm/street opiates, albeit definitely not the same as either one. It's in a class of it's own, and this becomes extremely apparent when you use an opiate and kratom in conjunction.
 
I have an addictive personality as well as bipolar disorder (the mental disorder with the highest rate of substance abuse). I have been addicted at least for a time to every drug. And while at times I have been mentally dependent on kratom to clean my room or to relax without alcohol, I have never felt like I had to have kratom in general. That is I always craved the drug to enhance a certain experience rather than craving the raw chemical stimulation.
 
I took my first Kratom dose today. WOW. I'm writing a trip report over the course of the day which will be more detailed, but the main thing is that it solved all the w/d I've been going through plus a nice high at only 1 and 1/2 teaspoons. I've been on an aggressive suboxone taper, and yesterday it was not holding me at all, today with just the one dose of Kratom I feel better then I have in quite awhile. To be honest, I've never had an issue being a low-dose opiod addict, BUT i don't enjoy being addicted to an illegal drug. Switching to a low dose of Kratom (and i've always kept my doses low on every drug, so I'm not too worried) is a godsend. Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
I been back on the Kratom train lately. It's one of the few opioid trains I can ride and get off without getting trapped. I do like Kratom very much even as a former IV heroin user and I can deal quite easily with any withdrawal from a week's worth of use. The only physical withdrawal that bothers me with Kratom is the chills, which makes sense because when I use it I feel so warm & toasty inside. When I'm off it my bones feel like my bone marrow got replaced with liquid nitrogen.. burrrr!

I've found that the Maeng Da White Vein strain is the perfect functional mix of energy & euphoria. It's similar to my early days with oxycodone in its stimulant nature. If I mix it with a Red Bull I tend to get into that zone where all thoughts focus on being the best at what ever it is that I happen to be doing. Definitely a life-enhancing drug rather than a life-consuming drug like classic opiates. I've never forayed into extracts and enhanced leaf so perhaps that's why I can use 4-ounces in a week and have nothing more than a brief 2 days of nervously lethargic energy with chills.

The itchiness I get from using this stuff sometimes after taking a week or two off.. man, oh man. I have to take a triple dose of Zyrtec or a corticosteroid to stop it or it will drive me insane.

Finally - Please people, DO NOT support legal-high websites selling Kratom or headshops selling Kratom - they will be the downfall of this wonderful plant.
 
First full day off Bupe in over two years. I don't even know what to think, truly amazing this isn't better known.

There seem to be lots of solid Kratom venders online that are not the "legal high" or head shop variety, pretty easy to find a solid supplier.
 
Im at the point of withdrawl.. of just mild depression.. and basically RLS nonstop.. I might get 4-5 hour break during a 24 hour period. The only thing that has helped that is gabapentin. But im out and dont see another doc for 2 weeks.. so im sorta fucked on that.

Well shit, sorry to hear that. It's been quite a few days since your initial post, hows your progress? By now you should be over the peak of withdrawals but you say you've got a history so I could be wrong. Dude, have you considered giving lope a try? With the right tools you can really make the whole process easier, you shouldn't have to suffer the way you are. I find that even 16-20mgs of loperamide puts a huge dent in the RLS and insomnia issues, you can buy it otc in most countries but this is something pretty much every opioid addict knows. If you fuck with dissociatives even small doses take the edge off as well... benzos and etizolam are lifesavers as well but being that you said you have an addictive personality it's probably best not to go there but I urge you to give the lope a shot, it doesn't prolong the withdrawals at all for me if used short-term in reasonable doses. Good luck, hope you didn't cave man....

Retching, shivers, sweats,legs like lead, kidney pain, and all the other opiate w/d symptoms we've come to know and love so well.
Are you sure it's not just back pain? I have never heard of anyone experiencing kidney pains from kratom withdrawals and that doesn't sound very good. Try and stretch your hamstrings, legs, thighs, and back a couple times a day and this should ease any back pain but if your experiencing any sharp pains on either side of your low/mid back I would get that checked out ASAP.

I've gone through the withdrawals myself, and I'm convinced they are 90% psychological... It's mostly in my mind though, because the symptoms are only bad when I'm actively thinking about them. I've found myself to be plagued by RLS, insomnia, watery eyes, stuffy nose, back aches, cold sweats, all those classic W/D symptoms on some days without kratom, while on days that I'm properly distracted and not just sitting around, I experience almost none ofthis.Afterone simple daywithout kratom,I feel mytolerance decrease significantly and my next dose will be extremely satisfying no matter how my tolerance was 2 days ago.

Wow I couldn't agree with you more, I also STRONGLY believe most (not all of course) of kratoms withdrawals are mental. Like you, If I'm buisy all day I can go way past my usual dose time without noticing withdrawals until I check the clock and realize I missed my dose, as soon as I realize that the chills, restlessness, and anxiety set in immediately, it's strange as hell. Another thing I noticed is that if I'm in withdrawal and take a dose, litterally as soon as I take my dose I instantly feel a sense of relief and my withdrawals instantly lessen. I ALSO agree with you on the fact that even a one or two day break will reduce your tolerance significantly which makes it a rather easy pseudo-opioid habit to manage for me.
 
"Are you sure it's not just back pain?"
errr...now you come to mention it, it was just low back pain.
 
Get mAneg da kratom has helped me not drink for 2.5 years and if you run out by accident jones isn't that bad. It's not h or blow but it will quench any cravings of any drug
 
"Are you sure it's not just back pain?"
errr...now you come to mention it, it was just low back pain.

Figured that was the case, kidney problems are no bueno...

Kratom is the safest drug on earth

Whoa whoa whoa.... Hold on buddy, you cannot just make claims like that on a harm reduction site. Kratom is NOT the safest plant on earth, while I agree it's very beneficial a small select few have reported liver issues and other health problems, the fact that it carries any sort of dependancy scratches it off the "worlds safest" list for me.
 
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I am using lope.. its in my arsenal.. and benzos are great but my tolerance is high, I have a history of abuse.. and abused them so bad this past 3 weeks.. I can only afford to take like 1 mg of xanax at night now.. (cash, tolerance, etc etc...) Less pain.... pretty much same psychological state.

Been stuck i nthe house 2 months without a car, its definitely not helping the mental state. Will try to stay strong.
 
Well at least you've stuck to your guns, stay strong man... things will get better. Don't stay on the lope too long though cuz that shit has it's own withdrawals. I have a friend with IBS who popped em like candy under the assumption they were harmless and now she's got a fuckin opioid dependancy 8), to top it off lope has a rediculously long half-life so she's in for months of withdrawals/PAWS should she choose to quit. Take it easy on the benzos as well, having to deal with benzo withdrawal/rebound effects after going through opioid withdrawal sounds exhausting and unpleasant.
 
I stumbled upon something by accident over the past couple of days that I would like to share.

You know the Kratom crash by now. You feel good for 3-4 hours, then you feel anxious/irritable/tired (depending on how it affects you personally) for an hour or so, then you are back to baseline.

Well, I have been taking a blend of Phenibut/Choline/NALT/L-Tryptophan with my Kratom over my last three sessions, and have found it to cause a very smooth comedown with no crash whatsoever.

I am really digging nootropics lately, but this is one find that I am elated about.
 
If you're taking phenibut it will make a lot of things feel much "smoother", given its actions at GABA-B. Probably by far the most active part of that cocktail :p
 
Phenibut + Gabapentin is a trip...
Try pregabalin and Phenibut, what I'm enjoying now, fucked!

I really want to get some kratom but I have an appointment with an actual pain management doc soon so I don't think I should...
 
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