Opioids The Kratom Mega Thread v3

Chemical Smiles- I feel ya man. I have used Kratom for over two years, starting it to get off suboxone.....I take 50g PL a day (yup that's me, heheh) andhave been trying to quit for a long time. I can't taper for shit.....so CT is has been. I made it a few months at the end of 2013.....the opioid aspect of the withdrawal isn't too horrible, at my level it is comparable to a mid level oxy habit, but longer lasting. But the weeks and months that follow are unique to Kratom.....way worse than straight up opioid PAWS. I believe this to be due all the mixed actions of the various alkaloids. I've kicked heroin, methadone, suboxone, poppies, etc.....and while the acutes are more dramatic on all of these, the period following such is quite insidious....

I too wish I would have just toughened out the suboxone withdrawals. For some, Kratom can be a real beast, especially at high doses over the long term. You don't see many success stories online. I've seen a lot of people stop for a week, a month or two, but they usually return. Is this because it gets it's hooks in deep, or because it is a cheap, legal, and safe alternative to other things? I don't know. But for me Kratom dependance is a real bitch.

Yes, high dose loperamide works wonders for the opioid aspect of things. Exercise is a must for the second phase! I've been on and off for 2014...and exercise is hopefully gonna be my ace in the hole for my next kick attempt. The anxiety, depression, and lethargy that Kratom withdrawals leave you with are quite grating....

14 months off opiates. I occasionally take some kratom and that kills my random opiate cravings.

Run out of kratom again , anybody who says kratom doesn't have withdrawals is a disingenuous fool, either somebody who doesn't want it banned or "hardcore" opiate addicts. I have to do a presentation for uni tomorrow so will probably pop in asda pharmacy before to get some co-codomol or cuprofen plus.

Lol who says kratom has no withdrawals? It's a mu agonist, of course it carries dependancy issues.

On a side note, good news for folks in oklahoma... we did it! Kratom is being removed from the bill that was originally gonna ban it. This is proof that we CAN make a difference if we speak up. Unfortunately now Illinois is trying to ban kratom so let's work together and get them to remove kratom from their silly bill, please just take 5 minutes out of your day to write an email to [email protected] or send a letter to Dennis Reboletti 721 west lake st. Suite 203, springfield illinois. I'm sure there's a petition on the web as well, together we can make a difference. Be sure to include bill HB5526 in your emails/letters/phone calls as reference.

With Kratom becoming harder to find and more expensive, wondering if anyone might be aware of new any research on plants that have a similar effect? Does anyone have any thoughts on suitable substitutes?? Not interested in synthetics at this point. Thanks!

Harder to find? A google search will bring up countless vendors, I've yet to see a single vendor get shut down but I can see it being hard to find if your in a state that has banned the plant. Your not gonna find any substitutes besides poppies and poppy seeds but before you go crazy with them keep in mind that poppy addiction is no picnic, you will be picking up a hefty morphine/codeine addiction and because the duration of effects are so long and drawn out the withdrawals will last a long time, just a heads up IF you decide give these a whirl.

CaptainKratom said:

Harder to find? A google search will bring up countless vendors, I've yet to see a single vendor get shut down but I can see it being hard to find if your in a state that has banned the plant. Your not gonna find any substitutes besides poppies and poppy seeds but before you go crazy with them keep in mind that poppy addiction is no picnic, you will be picking up a hefty morphine/codeine addiction and because the duration of effects are so long and drawn out the withdrawals will last a long time, just a heads up IF you decide give these a whirl.

Click to expand...

Truth!! Been there, not fun. Addictive as hell. Man, I used to love being sky high all weekend long from one glass of organic tea....

Hey everyone. So we had kratom shredded leaves yesterday night (bought legally where we live). Me and a friend did 10g of shredded kratom leaves. We made tea (2-3 rounds of boiling) of the 8-8.5g and smoked the remaining 1.5g with weed joints (Amnesia Haze). To put it short, we did 10g of kratom, mostly orally, combined with 1-1.5g of Amnesia Haze.

Pretty nice experience, I had both sedative and stimulant effects,muscles relaxed, pleasant waves of heat and pleasant sensations. I did some workout/physical exercise which is highly recommended from my experience. No visual or audio hallucinations, apart from mild closed-eye visuals barely above baseline Closed-eye visuals ( I have them even sober and have had them since I remember myself)

Today no hangover, on the contrary some afterglow and calmness (spiritual,physical) from the previous night.
Next time if we take the same strain we will try a double dosage, around 8-10 grams each.

I would like to ask about the boiling it needs etc. Can boiling too long result in loss of alkaloids? We had the shredded leaves in the pot, when the water started boiling hard/bubbling we turned off the heat, covered the pot and let it simmer for 10-15 minutes. We reused the leaves and boiled them again afterwards, tea was still potent enough.

Also would about tolerance when instead of consuming the same quantity fast, this quantity is split into dosages with 20-30 minutes time gap or so?

Just a quick update on my story. Been off Katom for a year due to abuse of extracts, strong ones, that ruined my tolerance to the point of zero effects. All the best stuff from then on would just make me super anxious like some kind of coke comedown.

Cut to a year later now, Ive had tons of amazing normal kratom stored for a year unable and scared to touch but recently went on valium doc prescribed alcohol detox and worried about benzo dependency for 45 day usage i have tried doing 3 day benzos, which suck really, and 3 day kratom crushed leaves tea (not powder) simmered for for 5-10mins, filtered and drank over 5 hours (full jug of liquid to manage dose slowly over time). High quality commercial plantation bali leaf.

All I can saw is wow, good to be back on Kratom's good graces. This beatiful low dose non extract energy, so productive, no interest in other drugs or alcohol, top performing mental faculties, beautiful calm stimulation that allows me to work like a boss yet fall asleep perfectly when the time comes. Its like the perfect chilled functional stimulant that turns sedatory later on. Perfect.

Wonderful and amazing for getting off the shit alcohol so far since the benzos hardly help with that due to lower euphoria resulting in irritation and the desire to drink. Plus no hangover and no tolerance increase or anxiety in 3 weeks of 3 day evening kratom, 3 day off benzo. Ultimate alco addiction killer cycle . And its feels great being off the drink, not just pshychologically but physically i feel on top of my game and like 100* smarter then i was with a hangover everyday.

I hated you Kratom, and im sorrry. It was my fault for abusing you. Let the love story begin again with more respect and appreciation this time.

Just a quick update on my story. Been off Katom for a year due to abuse of extracts, strong ones, that ruined my tolerance to the point of zero effects. All the best stuff from then on would just make me super anxious like some kind of coke comedown.

Cut to a year later now, Ive had tons of amazing normal kratom stored for a year unable and scared to touch but recently went on valium doc prescribed alcohol detox and worried about benzo dependency for 45 day usage i have tried doing 3 day benzos, which suck really, and 3 day kratom crushed leaves tea (not powder) simmered for for 5-10mins, filtered and drank over 5 hours (full jug of liquid to manage dose slowly over time). High quality commercial plantation bali leaf.

All I can saw is wow, good to be back on Kratom's good graces. This beatiful low dose non extract energy, so productive, no interest in other drugs or alcohol, top performing mental faculties, beautiful calm stimulation that allows me to work like a boss yet fall asleep perfectly when the time comes. Its like the perfect chilled functional stimulant that turns sedatory later on. Perfect.

Wonderful and amazing for getting off the shit alcohol so far since the benzos hardly help with that due to lower euphoria resulting in irritation and the desire to drink. Plus no hangover and no tolerance increase or anxiety in 3 weeks of 3 day evening kratom, 3 day off benzo. Ultimate alco addiction killer cycle . And its feels great being off the drink, not just pshychologically but physically i feel on top of my game and like 100* smarter then i was with a hangover everyday.

I hated you Kratom, and im sorrry. It was my fault for abusing you. Let the love story begin again with more respect and appreciation this time.

The lesson here is never to abuse the extracts again. Getting close to an H nod is nice but not when its going to ruin all the rest of those wonderuflly unique Kratom experiences you could have in the future. Extracts are great if used perhaps rarely, as a booster or with great respect.

MasterOfDeception said:

Hey everyone. So we had kratom shredded leaves yesterday night (bought legally where we live). Me and a friend did 10g of shredded kratom leaves. We made tea (2-3 rounds of boiling) of the 8-8.5g and smoked the remaining 1.5g with weed joints (Amnesia Haze). To put it short, we did 10g of kratom, mostly orally, combined with 1-1.5g of Amnesia Haze.

Pretty nice experience, I had both sedative and stimulant effects,muscles relaxed, pleasant waves of heat and pleasant sensations. I did some workout/physical exercise which is highly recommended from my experience. No visual or audio hallucinations, apart from mild closed-eye visuals barely above baseline Closed-eye visuals ( I have them even sober and have had them since I remember myself)

Today no hangover, on the contrary some afterglow and calmness (spiritual,physical) from the previous night.
Next time if we take the same strain we will try a double dosage, around 8-10 grams each.

I would like to ask about the boiling it needs etc. Can boiling too long result in loss of alkaloids? We had the shredded leaves in the pot, when the water started boiling hard/bubbling we turned off the heat, covered the pot and let it simmer for 10-15 minutes. We reused the leaves and boiled them again afterwards, tea was still potent enough.

Also would about tolerance when instead of consuming the same quantity fast, this quantity is split into dosages with 20-30 minutes time gap or so?

Click to expand...

First off DON'T SMOKE KRATOM!!! I don't know where the idea came from but I'm surprised at how many people think this is a viable ROA, it's not and has to be absolutely terrible for your lungs. Now on to your question, kratom alkaloids are very stable however if you litterally boil the tea it becomes a hell of alot weaker, 15mins of just under a boil is ideal. This may explain why your doses were so high, my first couple times I took kratom all I needed was 5 grams. You can re-boil the powder but I dry it out and use the leftovers for times when my packages don't come or I'm running low, as a rough estimate every 3.5g of this dry, used material equals a gram.

Tolerance sets in quick with kratom, for best effects I consume the whole tea within a 5 minute period so it gives a better rush. If i underdose and try to redose after t+1:00 hour I'm onlu adding to the side-effects. As for general tolerance with frequent use I find kratom builds tolerance very slowly, at least a hell lf alot slower than opiates. Glad you had fun just try not to make a habit of using as addictions creeps in real subtly and before you know it your dependant, keep this in mind.

Thanatos9 said:

Run out of kratom again , anybody who says kratom doesn't have withdrawals is a disingenuous fool, either somebody who doesn't want it banned or "hardcore" opiate addicts. I have to do a presentation for uni tomorrow so will probably pop in asda pharmacy before to get some co-codomol or cuprofen plus.

Click to expand...

Yeah, the " no more addictive than coffee" tagline is absurd. For me, Kratom has very severe withdrawals....much moreso than its mild effects would suggest. And no, I'm no virgin...I've withdrawn from all sorts of opioids and I find high dose long term Kratom withdrawals to be surprisingly nasty....YMMV

While I agree that the coffee comparison is fucking rediculous nonsense have you considered the fact that you've "withdrawn from alot of opioids" in the past makes kratoms withdrawals that much worse? I hear alot of people complaining of severe withdrawals from kratom when getting addicted to kratom AFTER they've burned through every other opioid... Don't take this post as me dismissing kratoms dependancy issues, it's just coming from a clean slate kratom withdrawals aren't too bad. There's no nausea, vomiting, cramps, diahrea etc... the fact that the whole GI set of issues is non-existant with kratom makes the withdrawals that much more tolerable but of course YMMV as with anything.

Ps: I still don't know what thanatos9 was saying when he says "anybody who says kratom doesn't have withdrawals is a disingenuous fool", I don't think I've ever heard anyone claim that there's zero chance of addiction with kratom, of course there is lol.

I felt like I was getting really close to getting off... was down to 3 grams of bali a day.. and it was holding me surprisingly.. had one weak day, took 14 gs... it really fucked my progress.

Been trying to recover since.

There are some withdrawal symptoms from kratom. I found out that when using 10gram daily, you just yawn a lot and are somewhat grumpy. When using 20 grams daily, some restlessness comes looking around the corner. And when using over 50 grams a day (for a year or so, it is quite cheap around here), then a whole spectrum of effects will pop up:

• Pupils are quite dilated
• Shivering
• Feeling cold
• Pain tolerance is lower
• Lower back aches
• Less so in other places.
• Slight diarrhea
• No desire in food
• Shit load of nervous energy.
• Very dark thoughts, anger, cynicism
• Orgasm comes quite quick and was painful
• Restlessness, the constant need to move or to move your feeds, arms, body.

It is not too bad, but it can be still a hassle. The first time (from a high dose) I was in it, I was quite anxious, but the second time I knew what to expect and then it was rather bearable. I think a lot of first time withdrawal users are a bit afraid of the effects, so it is understandable that they feel the symptoms more and are also more worried. You will survive it

The bodily part stops after 5/6 days, but your mind will need more time to heal.

There were also cool symptoms, like sometimes I got boundless energy and the desire in sex sky rockets. I also started drinking loads of coffee, which made the physical symptoms worse, but for some reason it made it more bearable.

I had a NASTY dependence on opiate pain medication (no less than 220mgs of RC's and OC's per day for last several years) that I successfully kicked, just by using kratom (well, when I was doing my rapid taper, I utilized a little bit of lope and gabapentin as well, but, when I jumped off, I just used the kratom exclusively). I initially dosed by the tablespoon, but, surprisingly, didn't need that much - 1-2 teaspoons held me wonderfully.

A quality product from a trusted vendor is key. It is ABSOLUTELY possible to catch an intense buzz from kratom - if I'm in pain from something like, idk, a toothache or dental procedure, I refuse the pharm script and just order the appropriate kratom strain. I'm completely aware that my body is not totally free of it, but, I think utilizing a plant with opioid alkaloids is a hell of a lot better than using pharmaceutical opiates. Lesser evil and all that rot.

However, now my problem is getting off the kratom...I switched to kratom in late November, so, it's been just over 3 months that I've been using it, and I'm really nervous about the withdrawals...I got put on Adderall about a month ago, and I've noticed that it actually seems to aggravate withdrawal symptoms -- my muscles get that achey, twitchy/kicking sensation, I can't stand it, and have to dose myself with kratom to lessen the Adderall's effects...I noticed that while I was sticking to the 1-teaspoon-at-a-time dose, I was doing a lot more often that I used to, and recently, I've been dosing with a freaking 1/2 tablespoon at a time =(

I have no doubt that kratom withdrawals are nowhere near as severe as RC/OC withdrawals, but, they still seem pretty dang uncomfortable, and I'll do whatever it takes to spare myself from that shit.

I reckon the best method would be to taper, yes?...something like work my way back down - 1/2 tablespoon to teaspoon, teaspoon to 1/2 teaspoon, etc...?

I've also read some very good things about corydalis - specifically the 80-98% THP extract - working wonderfully for opiate addiction; I think I might give that a try as well.

We'll see what happens!

ChemicalSmiles said:

I felt like I was getting really close to getting off... was down to 3 grams of bali a day.. and it was holding me surprisingly.. had one weak day, took 14 gs... it really fucked my progress.

Been trying to recover since.

Click to expand...

Ahhh that sucks CS, I feel for ya. One time I tapered down to 1.5g and decided to say fuck it when my friend came over and handed me two free opana's.... at least I lowered my tolerance though which was the goal anyways so the taper wasn't wasted I guess but I wanted at least two weeks clean time. While that one dose may have made a dent it shouldn't set you back to square one (from personal experience) so keep goin along with your taper and you should be able to make it the other end of the tunnel if you really want to. Once I get down to under 3g levels I usually just jump and use a combination of lope, gabapentin, benzos/etizolam, and low dose tramadol OR MXE (don't mix these two, dangerous interactions).
-------------------------

Also I would agree with the list of symptoms above except the diahrea and painful orgasms, I do cum in like 10 seconds though but I consider this a positive since my libido is usually shot while on kratom... feels nice to have btb orgasms that feel amazing, my GF obviously doesn't enjoy this side-effect though lol, I make sure to suck it up and.put in a couple rounds for her to make up for my losses, I'm not greedy

@Captain Kratom

Thanks for the reply mate.
You seem to be right about smoking it, I read in too many sites online (and erowid reports as well) that it can be smoked and I didn't question it further.

http://welovekratom.com/can-kratom-be-smoked/

^This seems to be a rather satisfying reply. In fact we smoked a mix of tobacco , weed and kratom, all grinded. I can almost swear it was different than normal weed high, distinct from a placebo effect as well. But never underestimate placebo especially when on strong weed right?

Btw, we didn't boil it , it was rather what you describe as underboiling. I don't plan to use it often, no more than 1 per month. It's stimulant/sedative synergies as well as the mild psychedelia (especially with some good weed) make it useful in many ways IMO.

Most reports of people who have smoked kratom, like you have already ingested kratom beforehand or have mixed it with cannabis and other substances. Kratom and weed synergize fantastically so if you smoked the weed/kratom joint AFTER you've consumed a standard dose of tea the change in effects likely came from the mix of the tea and weed, not the smoked kratom as the amount you smoked shouldn't have any noticeable effect anyways. Kratom may very well be smokeable but the amount you would have to smoke ~8+ grams seems like the worst thing for your lungs and a rather inneficient way of ingestion.

I've read a report or two of people smoking kratom resin extract with success but these are typically from new or first time users therefor placebo was likely to blame, placebo can cure diseases so it should never be underestimated as the mind is capable of strange things. I've had dreams of taking psychedelics and these dreams produced typical psychedelic visuals and effects, the mind is truely strange. Either way just about every other ROA is safer, more effective, and just plain better than smoking. How did it taste? I would imagine rather shitty but I've never tried nor do I plan on doing so.

Anyways I'm glad to hear your approaching kratom with caution, kratom withdrawal isn't too bad for some but others have real problems with kratom so I'd hate to see another person fall victim to addiction of any kind. You can definately get away with using kratom more frequently than once a month but if you have an addictive personality then maybe the once a month rule would be best as with drugs of this class it's very easy to find ways of justifying frequent use. Anyways you may wanna look into another strain or vendor as an opioid intolerant user shouldn't need more than 5-6 grams for their first doses, 8 grams of quality kratom would have me nauseous and dizzy as fuck my first couple times. Do you buy your kratom at headshops or online? Headshops have notoriously weak and overpriced kratom so if that's where your getting your kratom look into ordering some online.

Well before the joint I had chewed some of the shredded leaves until they melted in my mouth, then the joint. Then the tea. All in all as I said we (2 persons) drank 8g and smoked 2. The teas were clearly bitter, a bit too much. Most find this taste ugly but it's mostly a western thing, not being used to tastes other than salty or sweet. The joint tasted nothing weird or bad.

Well I have never had any problem (or much experience) with opiates, and I don't like most of the substances that drain you down, maybe because I have been forced to take them from psychiatrists and such. (I am still on 200mg quetapine and wanting to completely remove it). I like kratom because it's very multiple in its psychoactive fx. I can alternate between dancing like mad and doing physical workout , and then chill on the sofa,smiling,talking around with mates a bit and feel healing energies in my body. All stiffness from the workout of the last month had gone (and it hasnt returned since!). Maybe doing physical activity also helped in that.

At the end of the night, I was really relaxed, calm,lying in bed. Also hyperactive at the same time (hadn't got the seroquel this day, this always brings insomnia issues). Extremely horny too. After 3-4 hours chilling in the bed listening to music and wandering in thoughts with an overall joyful feeling, i then decided to take the 200mg seroquel. 2-3 hours laters i was switched off, sleeping. Too bad taking the seroq probably made me miss kratom's reported enhanced dreams.My friend had really nice and vivid dreams.

EDIT# We bought from an online headshop (dutch one). Judging from intensity level it was what would be label Premium (3rd strongest out of 4). 7 euros for 10g shredded leaves