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Opioids The Kratom Mega Thread v3

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Quick question, how long have you (or anyone) been taking kratom and do you still get as stimulated by white/green strains as you did in your early days?

Thai has always made me stimulated at first, but sometimes it will just give me the worst frustration/irritability at really minor things. But location of the dose has everything to do with the effects. When I take bali at work, it will get me energized but take that same dose at home on the couch and I'm tired. I always take 1-2 grams before I lift weights and it really helps me focus, along with the 300mg caffeine but even without the caffeine it works.

Nothing like Bali for me. Although true Bali only comes from one main distributor so maybe it's not even true Bali. I only order from one vendor so whatever he always has and sells as Bali is my favorite.
 
Thai has always made me stimulated at first, but sometimes it will just give me the worst frustration/irritability at really minor things. But location of the dose has everything to do with the effects. When I take bali at work, it will get me energized but take that same dose at home on the couch and I'm tired. I always take 1-2 grams before I lift weights and it really helps me focus, along with the 300mg caffeine but even without the caffeine it works.

Nothing like Bali for me. Although true Bali only comes from one main distributor so maybe it's not even true Bali. I only order from one vendor so whatever he always has and sells as Bali is my favorite.


White/green veins used to be my "go to" strains, until i got SSS with a white. White veins used to give me energy, motivation, and a slightly pleasant body feel (without eye wobbles). But they just havent done much lately (its possible the vendor switched sources tho). Id say green veins are mostly similar except the body feels a bit more "clean/uplifting." Greens still do give me energy, but like CK said, not like the earlier days. Tolerance is interesting in this regard, Red veins still have the exact same effects as in the beginning (with dose adjustment ofcourse). My theory is the alkaloids in green/white veins build a tolerance faster, or last longer. It seems like (to me) the darker you go on the kratom spectrum the more reliable the doses are (meaning consistent effects with every dose).
Another weird thing about whites veins is the eye wobbles. I rarely ever get wobbles off of a red, but now it seems like a small dose of white vein will produce them more frequently then in the earlier days.

I agree that setting has a lot to do with how a dose effects you. At work is mostly energizing and motivation, while anytime at home I relax and end up wanting to take a nap if im not doing anything.
 
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I used kratom for five months regularly.
I'm currently sitting in the hospital for the 3rd day now, my liver tests (which have never been abnormal before) were:
Normal Mine
AST/SGOT <35 IU/L 2485
ALT/SGPT <40 IU/L 2533
Bilirubin, T<1.2 mg/dL 13.0
Bilirubin, D 0 - 0.3 mg/dL 7.8
Alkaline Phosphatase 0 - 100 IU/L 228

So as you can see they are off the charts and why i'm in the hospital as I type this. My symptoms were dark urine and jaundice of eyes and skin. I was also taking Garcina Cambogia (1 month) and occasional Kava Kava (3 times total). However, I have never had liver issues in the past and these numbers are frightening. They did an ultrasound (liver is still functioning/no scar tissue) and a hepetatis check (neg). I do not know if the kratom was the main cause or a combination of everything, but I am a nutritionist/organic farmer, I work out, and don't drink much alcohol whatsoever.

The liver specialist and toxicologist believe kratom is the main cause of my current situation. I haven't been taking kratom for the last few days (obviously) and my levels are slowly dropping....

I am not telling anyone not to take this, because a lot of people do and they are fine. HOWEVER, be careful and I would suggest routine blood work and complete cessation with the first sign of dark urine.
 
I used kratom for five months regularly.
I'm currently sitting in the hospital for the 3rd day now, my liver tests (which have never been abnormal before) were………………………………………HOWEVER, be careful and I would suggest routine blood work and complete cessation with the first sign of dark urine.

Reports like this scare me, were your symptoms acute or did you know something was up for a while? Were there any other symptoms?
 
You should ALL remember that EVERYONE has different pharmacology—he could very easily be allergic to it, or react strongly in a negative way.

Just like I CANNOT drink alcohol; which, yes, is also a drug. So don’t worry too much. I’m very, very sorry for you though, opiophilee. I truly hope you get better soon… :/
 
Me and a few friends have used it intermittently to keep us off of opiates. It was a way for us to relapse but not go 10 steps back in life. Its good for getting off drugs but if your not a former addict you won't appreciate it much.
 
I used to be on accutane(acne medicine) and that was maybe after a year of daily kratom use. They would test my liver/kidney levels every month and I was always fine. I should get another test though as it has been awhile. Not saying it wasn't the kratom. Did you notice any pains or you were just jaundice?
 
I think I've already said this before but I went to the hospital a couple months back for what I thought was liver and pancreatic pain due to my kratom use but luckily it was just two duodenal ulcers. Anyways, they gave me a full blood and urine workup along with an abdominal CT scan and all was okay... AST, ALT, creatine, billirubin etc and the CT scan report says "liver is homogenous in attenuation, spleen is unremarkable, kidneys demonstrate symmetric function, normal pancreas appearance etc...". This was after three years of use but I should add that a week before this I did a rapid taper from 24 grams a day to 3 grams per day so it's possible that may be why my test results were normal but I doubt it. However keep in mind, these reports of liver damage from kratom use always say once the kratom is stopped or reduced, liver function returns to normal.

One thing I have noticed since starting is that my facial pigmentation has changed a bit, my skin color doesn't seem as evenly peach as it did before and my eyes are not jaundiced but they have taken on a creamy white appearance, this may be attributed to poor diet though. I will admit that while I look in shape, I do eat quite a bit of fast food as well a junk food.

Anyways, even if this is some sort of alergic reaction (I doubt it, he's been a user for 5 months) or some type of enzyme deficiency if kratom keeps rising in popularity these reports may become more common and reports like these will find their way into the media and I think you can figure out the rest. Sorry that your liver took a beating, hope things continue to get better. Anyone who notices ANY unwanted side-effects discontinue your kratom use. Like any medication, kratom is not for everyone.
 
Yeah, absolutely, kratom is not perfectly safe, it carries some risk, but so does Tylenol. It doesn't get you high, not really, it has weird depressant effects that make higher doses quite unpleasant. Low doses aren't really enjoyable, but when you're in withdrawal, any relief feels great
 
My sentiments exactly...

*opiophilee*
Thank you for your posts. It's important that when someone gets hurt using a relatively new method of intox that it is discussed. We are our own FDA. Most people don't show early liver damage because it can take decades for it to deteriorate, especially in the case of hep, or alcoholism. Besides genetics, and cancer even malnutrition can cause severe liver damage. Of course as a nutritionist/organic farmer this isn't news to you. Although I am curious, are you a vegan, vegetarian, or pescetarian?

No I am none of these things. I'm a recovering addict that has a pretty severe case of bipolar disorder. When I use hard drugs my mood swings become MUCH worse. When I take kratom I stop craving these life destroying drugs. I can deal with the cravings on my own most of the time but when it gets overwhelming I order a package and take kratom constantly for a week or two. When the package runs out I move on and spend a few weeks sans opiates. I never get a withdrawal because I avoid taking it for too long.

The drug produces a significant mood lift and this is very helpful in withdrawal. I must emphasize this is NOT euphoria. It is a very energetic high or it can be if you push through the fog. Working on it I can and will work harder but to be honest I tire out quicker. But for knocking out shit like cleaning the apartment it's perfect. I really believe kratom has changed my life. I DON'T necessarily believe it will change your life. It depends on the individual. Kratom is a drug. And just like all drugs even weed...it matters how and why you use it. For me I use it because its not heroin. And if you ask me its a pretty good reason.
 
Greetings!

I've just started the kratom journey and it's been. . . very inconsistent. . . i've tried many reputable vendors and different types to have only ever achieved a "high" once. . .

Also this is my first post, i've been reading this site for 6 years and decided its time to join. . . a collective of other like-minded people seems to be helpful during this phase of my mental exploration and pain management.

I've tried toss and wash. . . tea. . . mixing it with many things. . . various temperatures.. . . letting it sit/steppe over night. . . but the only thing that ever worked was yogurt... not merely mixing it then eating it because i tried that and nothing worked. . . i once forgot i mixed 6grams of meang da with some french vanilla yogurt and left it in a cup in the fridge until morning . . . desperate for some mental relief i took it out. . . mixed it with some frozen strawberries and blue berries and made a smoothie. . . about 30minutes later i was watching RuPauls drag race ( yes i love drag queens! ) and my partner walks in the room and i was so entranced by the show i wasnt noticing anything. .. he asked me how i was and i said im fine.. my face was warm and i felt a mild euphoria which scared me almost because it was hard to trust this was finally working. . .

since then i tried tea/toss and wash to no avail. . . another batch is coming tomorrow and i'll try the yogurt smoothie method again. . . i do have some enzyme deficiency and am postulating the yogurt somehow helped my body absorb it. . . yet one of the foods ive never been able to break down is dairy.. yet dairy helps with kratom. . .

I am not opiate/opioid naive. . . i've experienced great success with Pod tea and 7.5mg Vicodin(codeine, methodone (omg this shits amazing- when my dad was still alive. . . and when i first tried kratom last month i had at least a month of no drugs at all. . . just to give an insight on cross tolerance. . .

/salute
 
^9 times out of 10 if you get no effects your getting shitty kratom. If you smoked some shitty grass you wouldn't go back to that weed dealer would you? I can't recommend a vendor to you of course its against the BULA but shop around.
 
My symptoms were dark urine and jaundice of eyes and skin. I was also taking Garcina Cambogia (1 month) and occasional Kava Kava (3 times total). However, I have never had liver issues in the past and these numbers are frightening. They did an ultrasound (liver is still functioning/no scar tissue) and a hepetatis check (neg). I do not know if the kratom was the main cause or a combination of everything, but I am a nutritionist/organic farmer, I work out, and don't drink much alcohol whatsoever.

The liver specialist and toxicologist believe kratom is the main cause of my current situation. I haven't been taking kratom for the last few days (obviously) and my levels are slowly dropping....

I am not telling anyone not to take this, because a lot of people do and they are fine. HOWEVER, be careful and I would suggest routine blood work and complete cessation with the first sign of dark urine.

First of all, hope everything's going to be fine (sounds like it will be). It is hard to pinpoint the cause for your liver troubles: it could be that your Kratom has been mixed with something else, it could be something that you haven't mentioned, it could even be you and how your specific body and metabolism work. It is possible that Kratom has a slight impact on the liver, but I feel that your case is very extreme. As a regular user for years, I had my blood tested a few times in the past year (due to a prescribed medicine) and my alat and asat levels were elevated enough for the Doc to cease with the meds, but not alarmingly so. I never had yellowing of the skin or eyes, dark urine and/or pale stool (which are all signs of liver damage).
If I had to guess, the 2 other substances you mention sound way more suspicious than the Kratom, to be honest. GC is a weight loss supplement (for some reason these are always ringing some kind of alarm bells in my head) and not much is known about side effects. Scientific research has been insufficient IME. In 2009, however, the FDA issued a warning about the safety of supplements containing GC after some severe reactions were reported, amongst which was... liver damage (I don't really believe in coincidences). So I don't know what specific GC formula you are using, there's always a chance that there's some iffy stuff in there that doesn't combine well with GC for some or all users, or it could even be that the GC itself is harmful for some people.
And then there is the Kava: if you are absolutely sure it comes from a respectable source that only uses the root, then there isn't much to worry about that one IMO. If the source mixes the root with stems and leaves however (or doesn't even include the root at all) to make a few quick bucks, then this will very well be toxic to the liver (I coincidentally mentioned this on the previous page of this thread).
This is only my opinion (and I'm not the liver specialist nor the toxicologist), but I find Kratom (by itself) the lesser of the mentioned suspects...
 
tl;dr: read first and last paragraphs.

Ive been looking for something mild for a few months now out of the herbal repertoire for but nothing has fit the bill and kratom now seems to be 'the only game in town'. I had been trying everything else 1st because Ive been afraid of the physical addiction side of this cos its a whole new ballgame to me, psychological is not an issue as ive dealt with 'hard drugs' before without such issues. Ive tried Kanna, kava, supplements, all that junk to no avail.

I just want something mild to offer some sanctuary from the stresses anxieties/depression and tedium of day to day life. Not an every day thing just the equivalent of what ppl use such as a few beers or a spliff or two; both of which I despise with a passion. Also and more importantly as a mild stimulant to give me the get up and go to perhaps become more social again so that I can have a more interesting life to then phase out any substances- like how anti depressants are used. At the moment I am very reclusive and have no motivation for life/socialising and just feel stuck going nowhere. The only other option Ive thought of is going on anti depressants but I much prefer the idea of kratom since even tho it can be physically addicitive it has a longer history of use than these new doctors chemicals which we don't know what effects they'll have down the line plus its 'more natural'.

With the addiction thing is it like a 'no going back' thing say if I did like it do you suddenly have uncontrollable urges for it? I know everyone is different bla blah but what is the general consensus. Worst case scenario? I always like to plan for worst cases. From what I gather even those with lesser willpower are able to stop mostly when they want is that true? (I have never had self control issues with other substances, only for a couple of weeks maybe till I learned my boundaries.) Im saying this just based on the fact that over all of what Ive read there arent more 'horror stories' as compared to other drugs. For example things like heroin, meth, crack or mdpv on the net you will find more extreme stories as the norm whereas with this it is the exception.

My problem is Im so pessimistic I am wracked with anxiety at the thoughts of what could go wrong that I almost have a panic attack just thinking about taking kratom due to the risks involved even if it might help me I suddenly start playing all the worst case scenarios and getting big anxiety thinking about the 'unknown factors'.

I actually bought 25g at the end of december just before going to visit my mother and it arrived the day I was leaving. So being impatient of course as we know when drugs arrive we want to get that initial anticipation out of the way I took a little 200 mgs of it as a tester before getting on my train. I was away for two weeks but while I was away I got scared again and threw the rest away when I got back saying 'I am gonna stay natural'.

Well a month goes by and I still feel stuck with the same problems rearing their ugly head wanting something to give me a get up and go so my sights have turned back to this substance. I even tried wild lettuce as a possible less addictive alternative.- totally inactive bullshit- im tired of being disappointed by inactive herbs.

So my main goal is to use it as a tool on and off to give me more social optimism and a general better outlook on life so Ill be more social in social settings to maybe make me want to talk to ppl more. OR rather just to take when Im not out so I can reflect on those situations in a more positive light so that Ill be more proactive when Im in them. The only thing Im scared of is becoming dependant on it but isnt that just the same concern as anti depressants whcih many ppl have used succesfully and stopped when the time is right? Its just Im so pessimistic these days I have no motivation for anything really. Please dont give me that patronising junk about 'therapy, good diet etc etc' tried all that bullshit, didnt do shit.
 
^ being the lazy fuck that I am today I only read the first and last paragraph. I'm not sure you'll even read this post as you have only posted one time but anyways kratom can most definately be used both sparingly and as a great social lubricant/anti-depressant, this is how my GF uses kratom. Kratom is a fantastic AD with IMO far less negatives than any poison SSRI that a shrink will hand out like candy. If you have been able to use other recreational substances sparingly I see no reason you shouldn't be able to do the same with kratom. I would take a kratom dependance over an SSRI dependance anyday. If you feel that you wanna medicate yourself and are even considering taking an anti-depressant (which I should mention scores no higher than placebo in double-blind studies) because you just haven't found anything that works then you should give kratom a go.

For social interactions your gonna want to give a nice stimulating white or green vein a go, perhaps just take the plunge and buy an ounce and see if you even like the effects. Not everyone finds kratom a great motivator/euphoriant/social lubricant, some even find it dysphoric. For me, it took around a month of daily dosing to get physically dependant, I should also mention that I consciously chose to become dependant because the positive far outweighed the petty negatives of having such a cheap, legal habit. I consider kratom more of a medication for my anxiety and lack of motivation than an actual intoxicant, however kratom did indeed get me high when I first started taking it as I had just came off of a year long opiate break. If your scared of dependance than limit the amount you buy to one ounce every two weeks and don't order anymore until your 100% out, this way you will have no choice but to give yourself a 3-5 day washout while waiting for your kratom to be delivered.

I'm in no way reccomending you become dependant on kratom but honestly if you've tried all other non-addictive options to no avail and kratom happens to be what works for you then why not take it daily or as needed? Anything a Dr will give you will have a far worse dependancy profile as well as harsher side-effects. I mean SSRI's pretty much re-wire your brain to the point where abrupt cessation will make you go manic, give you brain zaps, extremely depressed etc and the withdrawal lasts months. With kratom I can easily quit within 2 weeks painlessly with a rapid taper and be 100% myself again by week 3, just my 2¢ FWIW.
 
Kratom has really improved my quality of life, but yes the chance of dependance is there. I have been taking it pretty much daily for about 3 years (yes, i am dependent on it) but still enjoy the benefits it brings to me and my life. Id hate to recommend trying it incase you do form a habit, but its been so beneficial to me i cannot be negative about it. If you feel you absolutely need something, kratom is worth a try and isnt going to grab a hold of you like other substances. Opiates had a grip on me from day one. Anti-depressants (IME) are much less effective for treating the symptoms your describe and the withdrawal from AD's is much more intense and longer lasting (i havent been able to get off of celexa even with a taper). I have found kratom to be more medicinally beneficial and less harmful then everything except marijuana (just because MJ dependency isnt too bad for most people). i love kratom, its saved me from the grip of opiates, back pain, social anxiety, depression and probably death. Ill fight to keep this herb around as long as i can, its a life saver.
 
Maybe, and I hate using this arguement, but alcohol and tobacco are both worse for you and cause way harsher withdrawals than kratom yet nobody blinks an eye at those.

OK yes... both of these are worse for me than kratom... but saying tobacco has worse withdrawals... I dunno.. I guess that could be your personal experience...

I see statements comparing kratom to caffeine regularly.. coffee etc... It sorta irritates me.. lol. Ive been struggling to come off kratom.. and keep in mind, ive kicked heroin, opana, and xanax before... (granted.. it did take a bit of time with each, but I did it..) Going from 35 grams to 25 was extremely painful... 25 to 15 hurt like a motherfucker too.. and at 15 a day... I still am sick about 25% of the time, and only sleep 4 hours a night.

For most people... the addiction isnt much of an issue.. but it can REALLY grab hold of some. I thought I was making the right choice jumping from subutex to kratom... I would have been better toughing out the last couple weeks of the subutex...
 
Yeah, it's like sometimes people say codeine's withdrawal is extremely painful too. It's supposed to be a milder drug, for godness' sake.
 
@ChemicalSmiles- 35 grams per day? Holy shit no wonder. Never heard someone taking that much regularly.
 
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