"unclean" acid trip report & questions

Swimmingdancer said:

Why are you so confident in that? LSD can have impurities. How do you know that those impurities can't possibly have physical and/or psychological effects?

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I know you are not asking me, but I would like to answer as well:

for me I discredit the idea of "dirty acid" for two reasons.

1) all of my acid trips have felt "dirty" : persistent unease and an uncomfortable body sensation throughout the trip. This has always been the case for me, even when friends have tripped off the same strip or vial and rated it as very pure and clean.
i think this is due to my unfamiliarity with acid, and anxiety about its duration. You may argue that this is down to personal chemistry. I tend to agree this could also be an explanation, but it does not explain my second point.

2) my experience with one gram of 2C-E: A given dosage of 2C-E out of the same gram would be sometimes neutral, sometimes negative with a bad body, sometimes euphoric with a body pleasurable beyond compare. The powder was stark white and of a uniform consistency, so I do not think there was some impurity unevenly distributed throughout the baggie. Additionally, there was no trend with regard to time, it was not as if the 2C-E degraded over time into something less desirable.

My experience with 4-AcO-DMT may also be relevant: I had one bag that was dark brown, obviously less pure than previous bags. I had two uncomfortable experiences with it. Yet friends who tried it found the effects exactly like those from visibly purer bags.

thanks for reading.

twelvesevndi - Yes I know very well that psychedelic experiences/effects can vary greatly from person to person, or for same person from occasion to occasion. I am just asking why people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that that has to be the sole possible explanation 100% of the time and that it's impossible for impurities to ever play a role.

sekio said:

It's not like LSD synthesis can suddenly make some other superpotent hallucinogen.

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Maybe you are misunderstanding me. I am asking if it's possible for there to be impurities which have effects period. Like if one had a blotter which contained LSD and other impurities, could any of those impurities have some type of effects on the body or brain - they would not have to be "superpotent hallucinogens" themselves. Could be something as simple as unreacted ergotamine, like if a substance was 95% unreacted ergotamine and 5% LSD, couldn't it have the effects of both given a high enough dose to contain an active amount of LSD?

Know anything about 9,10-dihydro-LSD?

Swimmingdancer said:

twelvesevndi - Yes I know very well that psychedelic experiences/effects can vary greatly from person to person, or for same person from occasion to occasion. I am just asking why people are so quick to jump to the conclusion that that has to be the sole possible explanation 100% of the time and that it's impossible for impurities to ever play a role.

Know anything about 9,10-dihydro-LSD?

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i think it is also known as lumi-LSD?
http://isomerdesign.com/PiHKAL/explore.php?domain=tk&id=5362

in my mind, it just seems like this is one of many cases where the more simple answer is more likely to be the correct one. the psychedelic experience is inherently variable. incredibly so. a vial containing 99.9999% pure LSD in solution would undoubtedly eventually produce in a user a "dirty" feeling trip as well as perfect trips, average trips, and trips unlike any other that a given user had ever experienced from LSD.

on the other hand it is relatively unlikely that there is some possible impurity from LSD synthesis that always gives the LSD trip a negative "flavor" in all users.

also, fwiw i was prescribed cafergot for migraines when i was younger. I have not noted any particualr similarities between my acid experiences and the effects of ergotamine.

Could be something as simple as unreacted ergotamine, like if a substance was 95% unreacted ergotamine and 5% LSD, couldn't it have the effects of both given a high enough dose to contain an active amount of LSD?

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Say it's a really potent blotter, 200 ug. If even 10% of that was ergotamine it would still be 180ug of LSD and only 20 ug of ergotamine (nowhere near an active dose at all). The active dose of ergotamine in a single Cafergot tablet is 2000ug or 2mg - 100 times that which would be present....

LSD is exceptional in that its doses are orders of magnitude smaller than that of the other ergoloids.

the psychedelic experience is inherently variable. incredibly so. a vial containing 99.9999% pure LSD in solution would undoubtedly eventually produce in a user a "dirty" feeling trip as well as perfect trips, average trips, and trips unlike any other that a given user had ever experienced from LSD.

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this.

Sorry to say this and I know it may upset some of the more 'religious' here but LSD is anything but a clean drug if clean is defined by receptor selectivity.

twelvesevndi said:

i think it is also known as lumi-LSD?

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Cool, thanks. So from what I understand that's just a byproduct of LSD degrading and is not in fact a previously undiscovered substance as the study I linked suggested.

twelvesevndi said:

on the other hand it is relatively unlikely that there is some possible impurity from LSD synthesis that always gives the LSD trip a negative "flavor" in all users.

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I am not arguing that at all. Just saying I'm not totally convinced that blotter can't contain impurities that could potentially affect sensitive people in some way (not even all users necessarily). I'm not saying, "I know I've had LSD that contained something else and was responsible for the side effects", just saying I don't consider it impossible. I can share more about what I experienced and why I feel it was not a "bad trip" if you guys want.

twelvesevndi said:

also, fwiw i was prescribed cafergot for migraines when i was younger. I have not noted any particualr similarities between my acid experiences and the effects of ergotamine.

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I was too. I have definitely noticed some similarities in side effects.

sekio said:

Say it's a really potent blotter, 200 ug. If even 10% of that was ergotamine it would still be 180ug of LSD and only 20 ug of ergotamine (nowhere near an active dose at all). The active dose of ergotamine in a single Cafergot tablet is 2000ug or 2mg - 100 times that which would be present....

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But I said what if it was only 5% LSD. Like someone makes a weak batch (or has liquid that has substantially degraded and is now weak), but realizes if you take enough of it it still produces LSD effects, so they put, for example, the equivalent of 2mg of solutes on each blotter. Then it would contain 100mcg LSD and 1.9mg something else. I knew someone who did this, he had a bottle of liquid and it was weak so he just put a lot on each blotter (he was not the manufacturer so I have no idea why the liquid was weak).

Anon0631 said:

Sorry to say this and I know it may upset some of the more 'religious' here but LSD is anything but a clean drug if clean is defined by receptor selectivity.

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I think people just mean pure and impure by "clean" and "unclean"

Alright so even if we know that separate known purities don't have any active level that is so low (mind you we ought to be talking purely about physical effects here), how do we know that a combination of them cannot modulate the effects of LSD which is obviously potent enough to become unfavorable?

Isn't the situation kind of the same as with plants? Psychoactive plants often contain thousands of alkaloids, though most of them are only there in tiny, sub-treshold amounts. Yet we know for a fact that various cacti/mushrooms/cannabis strains give different effects that can not be accounted for by set/setting. I'd figure the situation is the same with impurities in synths

Swimmingdancer said:

I am not arguing that at all. Just saying I'm not totally convinced that blotter can't contain impurities that could potentially affect sensitive people in some way (not even all users necessarily)

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I've never heard of such an "impurity". For a start it would need to incredibly powerful - a lot more powerful than LSD - in order to overwhelm the effects of a larger dose of LSD. I've not heard of any psychoactive drug thats far more powerful than LSD at smaller doses.

LSD simply has a vast range of effects all by itself. Sometimes I take a dose and get an absolutely splitting headache - then the month after I take it and the weathers different and I don't get a splitting headache. That's from doses beside each other on the same peice of blotter paper.

kidklmx said:

Isn't the situation kind of the same as with plants? Psychoactive plants often contain thousands of alkaloids, though most of them are only there in tiny, sub-treshold amounts. Yet we know for a fact that various cacti/mushrooms/cannabis strains give different effects that can not be accounted for by set/setting. I'd figure the situation is the same with impurities in synths

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I wouldn't put cannabis alongside those two - it's a different thing. With mushrooms I don't believe anyone can tell different "strains" apart. Sure, the vendors will say "Penis envy is warm and rushy while Alaskan thunderfuck is righteously mellow" but that's just bollocks to sell you more types of spores.

There's a famous story of Owsley applying different coloured food dyes to the same dose of LSD precisely to prove this point. Sure enough after a few weeks he was hearing back "The green acid is a bummer, but the red acid is righteously mellow, while the yellow acid is speedy". It was all the same LSD.

the journey (trip)came from the dos,the road is allways about whats going on with u inside,and that is highly conected to what happen with your outside:envaironment !!!.
pains from any kind not suposed to b part of the game (not physical one) only as a reaction of this kind of anxiety,paranoia or "getting the creep" atteck.
and not anything that make u hallucinate is acid,u can hallucinate from overdose of antibiotics too..
lumi acid is a dirty one-and he become dirty in the moment he exposed to air,light,high temperature so basically evry trip is dirty !!, and thats way the liquid allways smoother..
and yeah lsd is one of/if not the powerfull hallucinogenic drug,so ther is not alot of outer posibilitys that count in microgram that you can blott-in .
d.o.b supossed to b verry bitter and very "explotive" feeling but in your "pain" case i think it was "Bruno dragonfly" that is the bad far/ close "loads of pain" cousin of the d.o.b sheet

Ismene said:

I wouldn't put cannabis alongside those two - it's a different thing. With mushrooms I don't believe anyone can tell different "strains" apart. Sure, the vendors will say "Penis envy is warm and rushy while Alaskan thunderfuck is righteously mellow" but that's just bollocks to sell you more types of spores.

There's a famous story of Owsley applying different coloured food dyes to the same dose of LSD precisely to prove this point. Sure enough after a few weeks he was hearing back "The green acid is a bummer, but the red acid is righteously mellow, while the yellow acid is speedy". It was all the same LSD.

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While I'm not a shroom expert, the difference of Baeocystin, Bufotenin and other tryptamines contents should most certainly be noticeable, even if in trace amounts. Not to forget Psilocin and Psilocybin itself, Psilocin should be "faster" than Psilocybin. I agree though that you probably won't feel a huge difference between various Psilocybe strains, but there are other species too you know? Cultivation should play a large role in this as well.

And I've heard of the story, but that test would be more complete if there was also a difference in purity unrelated to the food dyes. I do get the point though, placebo is a huge factor in all of this.

kidklmx said:

While I'm not a shroom expert, the difference of Baeocystin, Bufotenin and other tryptamines contents should most certainly be noticeable, even if in trace amounts.

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I'm not so sure. Is a fractional dose of baeo really going to affect a much more powerful dose of psilocybin? And I thought psilocybin converted to psilocin in the body anyway.

Even with different species it's the same active principal - psilocybin.

LSD is just not LSd anymore. . Its all fake around here. "home-baked" or made or whatever or DOC ... who knows .. just doesn't feel right. Stay away

motiv311 said:

LSD is just not LSd anymore. . Its all fake around here. "home-baked" or made or whatever or DOC ... who knows .. just doesn't feel right. Stay away

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Why are you advising people all over the world to "stay away" because LSD is "all fake around here"?

LSD is still LSD. but "acid" is not and probably never will be. I was lucky enough to get the purist of the pure my first few times, made from some Dead Head straight from Cali, and tested for purity. Pure LSD is magical, and there is no psychedelic that compares IMO.

Now the fake shit sucks, and I see no need to try any of it. Just a personal opinion. I will give one specific experience regarding fake LSD sold as LSD (suspected DOx, possible BDF? but unlikely...). Me and some buddies I had not seen in a while wanted to have a nice trip. Ran into a buddy who knew where to find "acid" and so being fairly experienced with larger doses of psychedelics, I bought 5 blotters, and took em all soon after. it was bitter, but i still said fuck it and just let it sit. bad idea. Effects were kicking in about 45min to an hour in, and instead of everything having that LSD vibe to it, things just seemed different. It felt very rolly and was like i was underwater. about 2-3 hours in, we all decided "Lets ROLL!" so i popped 2-3 points of some pretty dank molly. about an hour later i was sitting down outside, grinding my teeth like crazy and convulsing for a little while. had mad chills and tremors. was able to get up and leave after the molly wore off, and then day 2 came. day 2 was more like what i wanted that first night. colorful sunset, heavy trip at night, no rolly feeling anymore. day 3 comes, and i still am tripping, and haven't been able to sleep at all. i researched and found out more info on the DOx substances and that special dragonfly we all have probably heard about. i freak the fuck out, as i realize that i cant feel my face very well, and my arms and legs were getting "pinched" because of vasoconstriction. check myself into ICU, and they drug me the fuck up. Xanax, Ativan, nitrates, valium, and ambien... a shit ton of it. as i slowly fade to blackness, i see myself approaching what appears to be a red flash followed by fire and demonic beings laughing at me, eating each other, and eternal blackness and emptiness. basically, the biblical interpretation of hell. i was so convinced that if i fell asleep, i wouldn't wake up and would end up in eternal hell. however, the drugs kicked in and i was able to go to sleep, yet all of those drugs gave me only 1.5-2 hours of sleep even after being awake tripping for over 48 hours. that ruined all drug experiences for me, as nothing i tried since worked the same magic as before. it was also the day i found faith and certainty in something bigger and more important than all of this.

So you took 5 doses of an unknown drug that you suspected not to be what it was represented as. Then after it became clear that you weren't on the drug you thought you were, you decided to take an extremely high dose of MDMA? Maybe the biggest problem here is your extremely dangerous behaviour?

pretty much what the point of my story was to begin with. just felt like contributing but whatever.

to be perfectly honest, i wasn't unsure until the second day. it wasn't extremely bitter and numbing like nbome is for me, and that second day i called my sources asking what the fuck i was on and they kept insisting it was LSD, saying they tested it and all. the bitter stuff always had worked before, and i never really researched anything before this experience. also, the tripping resulted in all of us deciding to roll, and i had a few free points for me anyways. besides, i was a completely immature fuck before the experience, popping anything i could get my hands on. after this experience, it seems i have gained several years of maturity as i am now the voice of reason for many peoples stupid decisions.

overall, what matters is that im still here able to learn from my stupidity and help others avoid the same mistakes i made

And you realise that just because some idiot misrepresented one drug for another, it doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the compound itself - just the behaviour of the involved parties?

completely disagree in regards to faults with the compound, but its an opinion. i believe that these RCs have fucked up and basically destroyed all positive aspects about the acid culture to begin with. its just not the same.

but... as said above i never tried to take blame away from myself. but i do place a lot of blame not necessarily on the compound, but rather, research chemicals as a whole. just an opinion.