The use of other substances after recovery..

Hello my lovely Bluelighters.

I'm currently in recovery for opiate addiction, about to be a month clean. I'm not delusional enough to think I could safely start chipping with opiates again. However, I'd like to hear your opinions on AA/NA's philosophy that one must remain completely abstinent or else you are doomed to relapse back to your DOC.

I disagree with the NA/AA philosophy in many ways. That is not to say it does not help people, i know many people who have gotten clean this way. However I am currently getting drunk on the weekends - still learning how to do this whilst reducing the impact on my functional ability. I do not see the need for a "higher power". I do not see the need to go somewhere every fucking day and sit in a room hearing depressing stories. I do not see the need to put money in a bowl as it goes around the room. I do not see the need to adhere to the "twelve steps" or "twelve traditions", some of these are pretty ridiculous IMO.

Of course this is my own opinion, it is about finding what works for you.

Bdd---------------->tds

aussie101 said:

I disagree with the NA/AA philosophy in many ways. That is not to say it does not help people, i know many people who have gotten clean this way. However I am currently getting drunk on the weekends - still learning how to do this whilst reducing the impact on my functional ability. I do not see the need for a "higher power". I do not see the need to go somewhere every fucking day and sit in a room hearing depressing stories. I do not see the need to put money in a bowl as it goes around the room. I do not see the need to adhere to the "twelve steps" or "twelve traditions", some of these are pretty ridiculous IMO.

Of course this is my own opinion, it is about finding what works for you.

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I'm currently in a halfway that requires I go to meetings and work the steps :/ They try to approach the whole "higher power" concept lightly, saying "it just has to be something greater than yourself", however, the steps are so reliant on one's higher power that it seems the higher power must have a conscious for the steps to work. Whatever though. Some meetings are not all too depressing, there's a CA here where all people do is fuck around and joke.

Anywho, retracting from NA/AA.. in general after experiencing one addiction.. can one tamper with other substances or would he/she be prone to swapping addictions in a sense?

Chromophobia said:

Bdd---------------->tds

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Thank you sir.

I really believe you are better off abstaining from all drugs (the one exception being if a doctor familiar with your history prescribes you something). Far too many people end up trading one addiction for another. Some people are just wired in such a way that they are much more susceptible to addiction. If you've been addicted to something in the past it's likely you are one of these people.

I know allot of hard core addicts that maintain abstinence of all other substances that are able to smoke grass. The others I have not seen the greatest results.

OP do you have SMART (Self-Management and Recovery Training) recovery meetings where you are?

This is from the SMART recovery site, I hope you can find some insight from it:

"Q. What is addictive behavior?

A. Addictive behavior is over-involvement with substance use (e.g., psychoactive substances of all kinds, including alcohol, nicotine, caffeine, food, illicit drugs, and prescribed medications), or over-involvement with activities (e.g., gambling, sexual behavior, eating, spending, relationships, exercise, etc.). We assume that there are degrees of addictive behavior, and that all individuals to some degree experience it. For some individuals the negative consequences of addictive behavior (which can involve several substances or activities) become so great that change becomes highly desirable.

Q. How is SMART Recovery® different from Twelve Step programs?

A. SMART Recovery® has a scientific foundation, not a spiritual one. SMART Recovery® teaches increasing self-reliance, rather than powerlessness. SMART Recovery® meetings are discussion meetings in which individuals talk with one another, rather than to one another. SMART Recovery® encourages attendance for months to years, but probably not a lifetime. There are no sponsors in SMART Recovery®. SMART Recovery® discourages use of labels such as "alcoholic" or "addict".

Q. Is SMART Recovery® as effective as AA?

A. From a scientific perspective, the effectiveness of all support groups for addictive behavior is unproven. The only way to answer that question is to attend meetings from all available groups, and reach a personal conclusion about the best approach to recovery."


Will these meetings be effective for you? You're guess is as good as mine. Personally I find the philosophy I learned from this place highly beneficial for my physical and mental health.

froglegs said:

I really believe you are better off abstaining from all drugs (the one exception being if a doctor familiar with your history prescribes you something). Far too many people end up trading one addiction for another. Some people are just wired in such a way that they are much more susceptible to addiction. If you've been addicted to something in the past it's likely you are one of these people.

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My mission in life is now to prove you wrong.

I think if one educates themselves on the dangers in their life, finds things to replace their addiction (exercise, health supplements, education, social etc), does not go back to their drug of choice (mine is opiates), keeps away from injecting (if that was their problem) etc then they can live a life of moderation. I am working on this so thanks for the motivation.

neversickanymore said:

I know allot of hard core addicts that maintain abstinence of all other substances that are able to smoke grass. The others I have not seen the greatest results.

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I am also going to prove this wrong. My kung-fu is strong.

My direct experience with AA has been all over the spectrum, just as it should be. I have been to meetings where I am inspired to stay sober after hearing older folks quote the book and speak in an uplifting, common sense approach. Then I will hear outside of the same meeting and from another person that the person inside speaking easily makes $250,000+ a year. That's one extreme and some positives. The other extreme is meetings where the victim stories and depressed daily logs of how life sucks come out. These neither lift me nor depress me. However, I do make a mental check of steering clear of the meeting in the future.

From my experience above, it is common sense to stay sober for the long-haul. On one hand, I have people with a wide variety of careers -lawyers, financial advisers, motivational speakers, savvy businessmen, self-employed contractors, OTR truckers- speaking positives about the meetings, the AA big book, and the 12 steps. I can see with a $20k Harley, or their $750k house, or their 2012 Corvette, that it's working in their life. Their contentedness with their weekly meeting, their number of smiles, and their openness to who they are lead me to believe that they are overall happy inside and out.

The other meetings (where people come in only to explain that they had four out of six in a six-pack and they must not be an alcoholic) are chocked full of people sitting on the fence, fighting the issue of having drugs and alcohol taken away, fighting with the idea of a higher power, fighting with society, but above all, fighting with themselves.

Given my two direct experiences above, if I am truly an alcoholic and drug addict, the more appealing, life-satisfying approach is to stay sober for the long-haul.

In my own vessel's (my mind, body, and soul) experience, I beat my head against a brick wall hoping things would change for seven years. I beat my head against a brick wall thinking I could do something positive in the midst of all the negative I was creating with drugs and alcohol. I beat my head against a brick wall just to beat my head against a brick wall.

My problems with drugs and alcohol arise from the mind. My mind is one of those that can attach to anything, obsess, bleed it dry, and then move on. However, when I got stuck on drugs and alcohol, my mind knew we had something that would last more than a few weeks and it did.

The common-sense thing for me is to give up drugs and alcohol. Why do I even want to go back to something that just ate a hole in my life? Why do I want to go back to something that stripped me down to animal-ways? Why do I want to go back to something that destroyed my temple, my vessel? Even a glass of wine with dinner once a week - do I really give a shit? And, if I do, I believe that is speaking more about my level of attachment to things and I had better meditate for a bit to get my self realigned. You see, I was more invested in the idea of being able to drink and drug as opposed to the actual action of doing so. My mind is very powerful.

I believe alcohol and drugs affect my mind, body, and soul in very negative ways. If society wants to label me an alcoholic or drug addict for the sake of labeling, go ahead. I know the truth about myself, my soul, and therefore do no need symbols to explain to others.

I can still obsess about anything today without the drugs and alcohol. This is how my mind operates. To fill something positive in it to obsess about is not what I want. What I want is to find the middle path in all of my actions while revamping everything in my life to be positive. If I obsess with anything good or bad, it ends up being bad in the end. If I think I cannot live without it, I may actually be living in it. This is not good and I should take a step back to find the middle path.

While I incorporate one AA meeting, one SMART meeting, one mindfulness meeting, Buddhism, and loads of positivity into my recovery, I do not believe that anything tells me that I must do it one way or the other. The main thing I have learned is to listen to myself, to float above society and the next man's opinion. To not attach to anything and see my truth exactly how it is supposed to be in that moment. When I do this, it is beyond words evident that a life without drugs and alcohol could potentially be a life worth living.

I don't necessarily believe abstinence is the only answer, but using other substances can certainly challenge ones convictions when it comes to remaining clean from your DOC. Currently in my recovery, I have used many other drugs without even thinking twice about opiates, but recently, during a sober moment, caved a purchased some of my DOC, so for some people, I think it's a non-factor. But for others, I can completely see why total sobriety is the only way to go about things. Only you can judge for yourself.

aussie101 said:

My kung-fu is strong.

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HAA.. You Know i'm pullen for ya Auss.. but really hahaha

The way I see it, no two addicts are alike, so it seems silly to me to want to approach every addiction with a set plan and list of tenets... The physical mechanisms behind addictions may basically work in the same ways, but everyone's psychology and life experiences are different. Fact of the matter is, nobody is going to "fix" themselves without a compelling reason, and that's not exactly something you can hand to most people on a silver platter and expect them to clean their plate.

For some people, the structured approach works-- that's what they need. Some people find God, some people have a change of heart after being forced to detox in jail, some people have to lose everything they have and hit absolute rock bottom before realizing that something needs to change... Some people never change.

There is no single end-all cure-all for addiction. It depends on what works for you, and you have to find what does for yourself; but first and foremost, you have to want to find it...

... But that's just my opinion.

My outlook on NA/AA is to taylor the program to your specific needs. In other words take from them what you need to remain sober from your DOC and disregard all the other stuff that doesn't work for you. I went to meetings during my recovery from heroin. I'm presently 6 years and 3 days clean from heroin. I'm not 100% sober because I still use MDMA every 3 to 4 months and have the occasional drink. I used to smoke weed but, have given that up a while ago because it was no longer pleasurable.