PDA

View Full Version : (opioids) Kratom - How to make ingestion pleasurable?



Long Lou
11-02-2013, 10:15
So I acquired a free sample of some Green Vein powdered Kratom about a week ago, and I tried it for the first time tonight. I can see how the end result of taking it is enjoyable, but it doesn't really seem worth the discomfort of ingesting it. Everything I've read suggests that making a sort of tea out of it is the best way to go. The problem is, it tastes disgusting. Smoking is apparently not very effective as well. I won't even consider insufflation (if it would even work). My question is this. How do you make the act of ingesting Kratom fun? Half the fun of smoking weed is the smoking part. The snorting part of doing a pill is fun. Hell, some people even argue that the shooting part of shooting heroin is fun. How do you make taking Kratom fun? Doesn't seem possible.

Edit: By the way, I didn't mention this when I first posted, and so far no one has busted me on it, but I realize that Kratom isn't an opiate. I couldn't figure out how to create the thread without putting a category on it, and not get an error.

Benjo Diazepine
11-02-2013, 10:28
Fun? I don't think that's possible... HOWEVER, I dump mine into some almond milk mixed with whey protein and don't really notice the shit taste. I'm sure some normal COW milk will work the same. :) Most folks seem to do a toss and wash- dumping a pile on their tongues and chasing with water or whatever.. meh.
I made a tea out of it one time when I first got some and harfed really bad. It was fucking disgusting.
Insufflation? You gotta be kidding.

Fun? This is work man, work!

Hiltoniano
11-02-2013, 19:50
Try yogurt, mix it up completely and try and keep it in your mouth as short a time as possible. It works well for me, I have used this method over 100 times as long as you get the good yogurt ( yoplait) otherwise it gets really disgusting consistancy.

Long Lou
11-02-2013, 20:03
Insufflation? You gotta be kidding.

Haha, I thought that one would get a laugh. I'm sure there are people stupid enough to try it though.

Aporia
11-02-2013, 20:07
get empty gel capsuls and capsul up your own kratom. The process could become a small ritual for you?

Long Lou
11-02-2013, 20:11
Try yogurt, mix it up completely and try and keep it in your mouth as short a time as possible. It works well for me, I have used this method over 100 times as long as you get the good yogurt ( yoplait) otherwise it gets really disgusting consistancy.

I did that one with some applesauce. It worked, but it still sucks imo. I also did some of it like a goody powder. Has anyone tried smoking it? Does it work at all?

smokemctoke420
11-02-2013, 20:29
there's nothing fun about ingesting kratom, which is why i still have 2 oz that i dont even want. it made me feel awesome the first time i did it but after that, even after a week of space between use it doesnt really do shit.

the taste of it makes it not worth it to me but ive found the easiest way to ingest without puking is to parachute it. i parachuted 7 grams in 3 separate pieces of toilet paper and i was fine. in the end theres no fun to ingesting it imo

Ferox
11-02-2013, 20:45
Just look at the terrible route of administration as a sort of 'checks & balances' on your use. This way, you're only going to really get high when you're really ready to stomach the nasty taste of the beast.

Myself, I capped them for a while, then afterwards perfected the toss&wash to the point where I only tasted a bit of an aftertaste of the gritty powder. No foulness whatsoever. Both of those ways led me to become a habitual user while others left me using once every 3 months or so.

Be thankful for the shitty taste!

sekio
11-02-2013, 22:59
"Toss and wash" seems to work well for some people.
I would imagine if you made a crude tea, and then extracted that like Agent Lemon/DXM, you would end up with kratom alkaloids as citrate salts that you could probably dose somewhat easier (as a pill).

Hiltoniano
12-02-2013, 20:23
I did that one with some applesauce. It worked, but it still sucks imo. I also did some of it like a goody powder. Has anyone tried smoking it? Does it work at all?

First off smoking it is stupid because the amount of powder you would have to smoke to get high would be insane, and plus some of the alkaloids would definitely be degraded in direct heat. And trust me man, applesauce aint got shit on yogurt when it comes to kratom. the twangyness and sweetness of yogurt, plus the creamy smooth texture really helps with the taste and texture of kratom.

I honestly don't take it any other way, toss and wash is not for me, it sucks the moisture out of my mouth and I choke and exhale a massive cloud of kratom powder. Plus it limits my use, when I run out of yogurt I wont take kratom anymore until I go to the store, helped stop me from getting physically dependent. Just my experience, do whats best for you.

Benjo Diazepine
13-02-2013, 01:04
Yogurt sounds good. I'm gonna have to try that.

manman
13-02-2013, 01:31
If your going to use Kratom, swim suggests that you put your desired dose in a cup: (1 part water, 1 part hydrochlroic acid e.g. Vinegar, 1 part ethanol) Let it sit preferabbly overnight in a refrigerator. The active alkaloids in Kratom are only partial soluble in water, extremely soluble in Hydrochlroic acid 'vinegar' and ethanol, no more than 1 shot of 80 proof. The resulting mixture will be *EXTREMELY unplesant to the taste. You might even vomit. But if you manage to keep it down, what you will have left with is a very potent kratom mixture with all the active chemicals.
Smoking is no use. Like previously stated 'toss and wash' is only partial effective since the active alkaloids in kratom are only partially soluble in water. Swim suggests practicing moderation. Since dependence is quickly developed. Strength can be compared to a couple of 5mg vicodin.

ErgicMergic
13-02-2013, 09:05
Reverse Toss n' Wash: fill your mouth with a bit of water, scoop up no more than 0.4g powdered kratom, insert spoon in to mouth while mouth is open, close lips around spoon and let the Kratom get wet, and finally, remove spooon while applying gentle pressure on spoon with lips; some swishing is required to mix the hydrophobic kratom with water, and finally, swallow confidently.

If you fill up your mouth with water before inserting kratom or any substance, it helps to coat your taste buds with water, so the substance floats around your mouth instead of resting completely all over your taste buds.

nomissimon
13-02-2013, 09:58
I'd have to agree with the reverse toss 'n wash method in that putting dry kratom powder on your tongue is absolutely disgusting. I've shoveled table spoons of it into my mouth recently because I believe my first ever batch was a marginally effective one, and by the last spoon I'm using all my self-control to keep from puking.

My suggestions: The tea is disgusting so screw that. Perhaps try the hydrochloric/ethanol shot method. I haven't yet but am eager to try since a shot if way easier than a coffee cup or more! As for those who swear by the tea, I say kudos on having the determination lol, but it's never been as effective for me. I find ingesting it through the toss n wash method, or pre-wash then toss (add a bit of liquid then toss the powder back n swallow quick) is always more effective than the tea. Even tonight I added probably 25-30g of 'super borneo red vein' to a preheated lemon juice/water mix and boiled, then simmered on low heat for 25mins. This is the most thorough recipe that I've tried and it still didn't work as well as just eating the powder.

Lastly, you could try parachuting it. I'm able to get about 2/3 of a tablespoon down at once, and I use toilet paper which is fairly thin. Just put the powder into a single square of toilet paper, pinch the corners together and twist till it makes a little whipper snapper/snap dragon looking thing and tear off the excess toilet paper till it's like a little paper capsule. Then just put that in your mouth, take a mouth full of whatever and swallow it down. The toiler paper should disintegrate fairly easily as it's digested. I wouldn't recommend doing this too often but it's an easy way to get the stuff down.

After having to take down so much powder in such a short period since I believe my batch was really weak, I'm nauseated by the thought of the stuff an am pretty sure I'm gonna stick to doing it once a week now. Prevents developing a tolerance anyway.

pheungies
13-02-2013, 22:39
the key to doing toss and wash for me it tilting my head back. the first few times i gagged and it caused like a psychological problem getting it down cause i think its gonna happen everytime. but it takes a while to consume the dose i want cause i do like .5 at a time but i just put it on my tounge, take a big drink, swish it with my head tilted back, wait a sec to let it go back and swallow it. if you do that you dont catch so much powder just dragging down your throat. the taste isnt all that bad to me, its just the texture that i cant stand.

manman
13-02-2013, 23:16
Yeah, Kratom in general is pretty revolting to consume, but swim thinks it makes up in other aspects: legality, price, realtive strength.
A lot of people mention adding lemon to aid in the solubilty, but swim thinks that wouldnt really do much. Vinegar and alcohol are the most effective solvents of kratom. It really makes a world of a difference, compared to the common 'toss & wash'. You can probably effectively strain the mixture since most of the 'good stuff' is in the liquid.
When consuming Kratom this way its gonna REALLY REALLY TASTE LIKE SHIT. Screw the whole consuming on an empty stomach. With this ROA your gonna want something in your stomach. And it wont matter since it will be so much more potent. Try not to vomit and keep it down. If you manage in 30 mins you will be suprised at how effective this elusive mixture really is.
BTW you can absolutey get addicted to it, especially consumed in this fashion. SWIM was on a six month binge of daily kratom use around (1/2 oz. a day) upon cold turkey cessecation, moderate to severe withdrawal was experienced. 'Diarhea, Cold-sweats, insomnia, pain, RLS' was even close to vomiting.
Think of kratom like consuming hydrocodone (in terms of relative strength) and you will be okay.

Benjo Diazepine
14-02-2013, 04:40
Don't use SWIM.

serenafails
14-02-2013, 07:02
Put them in capsules, throw one up in the air and try to catch it in your mouth like you would with popcorn.

Long Lou
15-02-2013, 02:42
Just look at the terrible route of administration as a sort of 'checks & balances' on your use. This way, you're only going to really get high when you're really ready to stomach the nasty taste of the beast.

Myself, I capped them for a while, then afterwards perfected the toss&wash to the point where I only tasted a bit of an aftertaste of the gritty powder. No foulness whatsoever. Both of those ways led me to become a habitual user while others left me using once every 3 months or so.

Be thankful for the shitty taste!

I'm already physically dependent to opiates, so as far as price goes it wouldn't be a bad trade off. Thanks for all the replies and suggestions though. There doesn't seem to be any pleasant way of doing it. Damn I just wish smoking it would work. Oh well.

Any one had any experience with kava? The free sample of Kratom I ordered came with a sample of kava too, and I haven't decided to try it yet, as the preparation is a little more work than I've felt like doing recently. From what I read, one of the main effects seems to be a state of "clear-mindedness". Any ideas if it actually gives you a clear mind, or you just feel like you have one like you do when you're drunk?

Long Lou
15-02-2013, 02:43
Don't use SWIM.

Why not? I know it doesn't really do any good, but some people still prefer to use it, and I don't think its against the ToU.

Zapa
15-02-2013, 03:29
And trust me man, applesauce aint got shit on yogurt when it comes to kratom. the twangyness and sweetness of yogurt, plus the creamy smooth texture really helps with the taste and texture of kratom.

This!

Having tried both applesauce and yogurt, I can honestly say yogurt is a whole different ball park, whereas applesauce made me want to puke.
But for the last few years I started encapsuling my Gold Reserve Kratom and this way I only take 2 capsules (size 00) to get where I want to be and I won't ever turn back!!

Long Lou
15-02-2013, 03:32
Gold Reserve, eh? Not sure what strength the stuff I had was. How many grams of it are you able to fit into each 00 capsule?

Zapa
15-02-2013, 03:40
Gold Reserve, eh? Not sure what strength the stuff I had was. How many grams of it are you able to fit into each 00 capsule?

I take 525mg/capsule, including the weight of the capsule. So less than a gram each time. It's one of the most potent extract I know of.

As for Kava, it is a nice high, but it doesn't comes near the quality of the Kratom high. It's like the relaxation of alcohol minus the inebriationg, very clear-headed.
It tastes way better than Kratom also, and as a tea it's excellent.

Long Lou
15-02-2013, 06:05
It tastes way better than Kratom also, and as a tea it's excellent.

Good to know.

Also I've heard some bad things about the extracts, so I stayed away from them when looking for that sample. I read something where it said people were having kidney problems and such where they were using acetone (and some other stuff I can't remember) to reduce it down. I don't know if its true or not, but I've got weak kidneys anyways, so I stayed away from it. Know anything about that?

Benjo Diazepine
15-02-2013, 09:48
Any one had any experience with kava? The free sample of Kratom I ordered came with a sample of kava too, and I haven't decided to try it yet, as the preparation is a little more work than I've felt like doing recently. From what I read, one of the main effects seems to be a state of "clear-mindedness". Any ideas if it actually gives you a clear mind, or you just feel like you have one like you do when you're drunk?

I don't know about 'clear-mindedness'. It has sedative effects similar to benzos but more 'earthy'. The buzz is quite enjoyable I find. Just make sure it's the good Vanantu or Fijian root and not capsules.
If by 'preparation', you mean the traditional way of doing it- yeah, it's a pain in the ass. There's no need to do that. You can simply throw it in a blender or toss and wash. Not much more trouble than brewing a tea or making a smoothie.


Why not? I know it doesn't really do any good, but some people still prefer to use it, and I don't think its against the ToU.

It certainly IS against the BLUA:
http://wiki.bluelight.ru/index.php/Bluelight_User_Agreement_(BLUA)
" Further, the use of ineffective self-incrimination avoidance terms is forbidden. Terms include but are not limited to: SWIM; my dog; my cat; a mouse; my pet hamster."
It also makes posts very annoying to read. Personally, I refuse to read any posts that use it. I want to drown SWIM in a bathtub.

Long Lou
15-02-2013, 10:25
I don't know about 'clear-mindedness'. It has sedative effects similar to benzos but more 'earthy'. The buzz is quite enjoyable I find. Just make sure it's the good Vanantu or Fijian root and not capsules.
If by 'preparation', you mean the traditional way of doing it- yeah, it's a pain in the ass. There's no need to do that. You can simply throw it in a blender or toss and wash. Not much more trouble than brewing a tea or making a smoothie.

Thanks for the info, I might have to try it tomorrow night. Also, I heard that Kava works better when mixed with something high in fat, such as whole milk. I don't know what the stuff tastes like yet, but I've read its not too bad that way. This has definitely piqued my interest on the substance.



It certainly IS against the BLUA:
http://wiki.bluelight.ru/index.php/Bluelight_User_Agreement_(BLUA)
" Further, the use of ineffective self-incrimination avoidance terms is forbidden. Terms include but are not limited to: SWIM; my dog; my cat; a mouse; my pet hamster."
It also makes posts very annoying to read. Personally, I refuse to read any posts that use it. I want to drown SWIM in a bathtub.

Ah, I was unaware of this. I don't use it, I've just read it for so long I don't even really notice it anymore. Old habits die hard I suppose.

Benjo Diazepine
15-02-2013, 13:51
Thanks for the info, I might have to try it tomorrow night. Also, I heard that Kava works better when mixed with something high in fat, such as whole milk. I don't know what the stuff tastes like yet, but I've read its not too bad that way. This has definitely piqued my interest on the substance.


It tastes like mud, which is much better than kratom tea, true. Still not a taste I really enjoy. I'm been doing a reverse toss and wash with it lately. No real taste and your mouth doesn't get numb.. something else I'm not a fan of really.
If you 'brew' it, definitely do it with something with high lipid content, if for no other reason than to make it palatable.

Long Lou
15-02-2013, 19:01
It tastes like mud

Well, damn. I was hoping it would be pleasant. I'm gonna have to do some research on a recipe for the stuff then. Its not worth buying anymore of if I can't enjoy the process.

Benjo Diazepine
16-02-2013, 00:21
Well, damn. I was hoping it would be pleasant. I'm gonna have to do some research on a recipe for the stuff then. Its not worth buying anymore of if I can't enjoy the process.

Some people seem to like it. I suppose it's not all that bad. It's not really tea-like at all because it's a root. I'm not sure what you could do to improve it besides using sweeteners.
You really seem set on making kratom and kava 'fun' and the 'process' enjoyable. I suppose it could be in it's own way if you manage to develop a taste for them and a ritual around them. You're probably better off to consider the neurochemical process instead. That's where the real enjoyment happens! The methods of consumption are just a means to an end.
Who knows, you may love the taste. Try and try again!

Long Lou
16-02-2013, 00:48
I consider myself a fairly decent cook so I should be able to come up with something. I don't know what it is, I just like to enjoy the process. You've been helpful in all your replies though, and I appreciate it. If I come up with something good I'll be sure to let you know.

liftedgift
16-02-2013, 08:10
I wouldn't say its fun, but I'm so used to it I use a card as a scoop and just drop it on my tongue making sure it stays on my tongue and I wash it down with water. If it gets off your tongue and gets all in your teeth then you will taste it but honestly I don't even taste it much anymore.

I've only made tea with it one time and I made it wayy too strong so I'm kind of turned off by the tea...can't remember the exact recipe but just boil water with the desired amount for 10 mins maybe then strain it through a cloth or a really small strainer...your going to have a goop left over so what I did is kept boiling the green pile of goop 2 more times and repeating the process.

chiparoo2
17-02-2013, 01:23
I'm surprised that no one has mentioned plugging kratom tea. I you boil it down to about 10 ml it will fit into a regular child medicine syringe. I have tried it and it works great.

Blackjackdealermsp
17-02-2013, 15:22
I have always used the maeng da capsules. Tbh I started using normal opiates after a kratom kick and kratom completely sucks compared to oxy/hydro/ etc

Long Lou
17-02-2013, 18:15
I have always used the maeng da capsules. Tbh I started using normal opiates after a kratom kick and kratom completely sucks compared to oxy/hydro/ etc

Everything I've read seems to indicate that its highly dependent on what strain you use.

WeedIndeed
18-02-2013, 00:38
I'm surprised no one has suggested extracting the alkaloids using some solvent, then filtering the powder and evaporating the solvent. Fill a capsule with the resulting material.
While I haven't tried kratom (yet), it sounds like a good idea.

treezy z
18-02-2013, 00:53
personally i don't mind the taste so i put water in my mouth, put kratom in and try to swallow before it hits my tounge then drink some more water. the only way to avoid the taste would be to cap it.

stavstav2
18-02-2013, 07:36
kratom is disgusting, the mental an physical effects are quite nice exept for one major thing, you feel terrible in your stomach ill and poisoned and that pretty much ruins it. plus it will constipate you for days. you want to go on believing its not an opiate go on telling yourself that, but once you experience the withdrawls you may reconsider that statement. it is a strong substance. it has hallucinogenic properties. it can make you restless and anxious instead of relaxed like any other opiate. usually it will be a godsend for any type of severe anxiety... but not always. i always mixed it in applesauce. it tasted like shit but i cant think of anything better. tried alot of things... the thought of mixing it with yogurt makes me want to puke tho...

regardless your effects from the kratom will be super magnified if you take it with a little citric acid, i think there is some in applesauce, and a shot of vodka will REaLLY intensify it.

you might want to be prepared for some hallucinogenic effects particularly visual. last time i took a large dose i saw a big red frog on my back porch it tripped me out so bad i stared at it for like an hour while taking pictures. it was a cool frog tho. you will also be very sensitive to sounds....

kratom is a fine powder and i dont recommend putting the dry powder into your mouth because the light microscopic powder is easily breathed into the lungs. it wont kill you but i wouldnt do it all the time. when i dont put it in applesause i put it in apple juice or water and stir it occasionally for about 3-4 minutes until all the dry powder has turned wet and it takes quite a bit of stirring. or you can just leave it there for 10 minutes that usually works too. then down it and try not to barf and then you will have to refill the cup like 4 times to get most of the powder as it all sticks to the side... always. then take the vodka shot or beer or whatever. now have fun with your complete pain relief but massive nausea.

you can parachute it or put it in capsules, much easier to down this way, but a few minutes later you are going to be tasting it in your stomach in every breath and burp anyways

ps-kratom can cause shakiness, delirium, and some major respitory depression, i know this from experience. i have experienced some major reslessness on it as well.

last time i took it i did a ton of greuling physical work all day long, in the sun, and felt no pain, nor did i get tired or hungry all day long. i worked like a horse. next day tho i was really sore

stavstav2
18-02-2013, 07:47
another thing. you wont sleep right.

another thing. you will have disturbing loud ringing in the ears after a couple days.

same thing happens with oxycodone.

liftedgift
19-02-2013, 04:19
another thing. you wont sleep right.

another thing. you will have disturbing loud ringing in the ears after a couple days.

same thing happens with oxycodone.

Dude what the hell are you talking about? You took something else besides kratom because I can guarantee kratom will not make you see an imaginary RED FROG or any other visual hallucination like that. Also I have never experienced a ringing in the ears after use? I'm not saying you didn't experience these things but they are not from kratom.

aaaand NEVER take kratom with alcohol.

NeuroDaemon
20-02-2013, 05:28
Dude what the hell are you talking about? You took something else besides kratom because I can guarantee kratom will not make you see an imaginary RED FROG or any other visual hallucination like that. Also I have never experienced a ringing in the ears after use? I'm not saying you didn't experience these things but they are not from kratom.

aaaand NEVER take kratom with alcohol.

Since he took pictures of it, I guess there really was a red frog, and Kratom made it more beautiful or fascinating. Still a strange effect though.

Benjo Diazepine
20-02-2013, 09:22
Haven't you guys seen the red frog? He always comes to visit much like Peyotel, the giant cacti.
er, yeah- I've never heard of anybody hallucinating from kratom.

Hiltoniano
20-02-2013, 19:08
Not only have I never even slightly hallucinated from hundreds of doses at ranges from 3g-12g of very high quality leaf powder, my stomach tends to be almost completely fine every time. I have vomited once, and that was because I worked out hard as fuck while kratomed out, not recommended.... But yea Idk what you where taking, maybe some Kratom extract with other drugs thrown in?

ShaunG
20-02-2013, 20:55
buy empty capsules from GNC or get them cheaper online...buy "00"...should be able to cap .5-.7 in them. i dont think there is any other way to not taste that nasty shit when using leaf. you can even still taste them through the capsules a little hahah