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PR22
14-01-2013, 21:55
I'm about 100 kilos, never tried diazepam or tramadol beforen and I don't have a tolerance to anything.

I took 10mg of diazepam, waited an hour, took 100mg of tramadol, and now its an hour after that I've felt nothing so far. The couple times I tried clonazepam I had a couple beers and it really made the euphoria come out. Is it safe to have a beer or two with what I've already taken today? I know its not recommended, but I feel nothing so far so I don't think the risk is too high for me.

laCster
14-01-2013, 22:35
no, do not have a beer!! you have never even had valium before or tramadol and you said you dont have a tolerance to anything!!!

do not drink a beer!!!!! dont take any more drugs today.... wait it out and try some other time!!! im serious!!!

tramadol is a very, very, shitty, shitty drug, seriously one of the shittiest drugs i have tried in my life. oh yah and tramadol caused me to have a grand-mal seizure.....

Xegh
14-01-2013, 22:39
I can not fault the advice...but.... to so vehemently attack tramadol seems uncalled for. Its really rather a safe drug if used correctly even has some immune boosting properties, I am sorry to hear that you had a seizure. How much had you taken? Was it in combination with another drug? Where you chasing a high like that of harder opiates/opioids?

laCster
14-01-2013, 22:43
ultram is definitely NOT a safe drug to use, and where did you learn it boosts the immune system? can you post a source to back up your claim?

when i had a seizure i had taken 250mgs at around 3-4pm, then at 11pm or 12am i had 1 regular sized shot of vodka and smoked a little weed. 30-60mins later, i was convulsing on the bathroom floor.

i was young and naive and didnt know tramadol is very very prone to cause seizures. i can take other drugs which lower the seizure threshold without having a seizure such as wellbutrin, amphetamines such as meth, opiates, ect...

everyone should know the dangers of tramadol, using this drug is not worth the risks!!! it is a weak opiate and does not provide much euphoria remotely compared to oxycodone or even hydrocodone. codeine has more recreational effects than tramadol IMO and IME. because tramadol is very weak, people often take more and more to try and reach the high, and eventually end up having a seizure.


in my eyes, why would i try to use a drug which doesnt even really have much opiate effects and is shitty and dirty ( dirty as in affecting multiple receptors in the CNS) and risk having a seizure? the rewards are not worth the risk.

PR22
14-01-2013, 22:46
Ok, alcohol is out of the question then. What would be a better a dose to try next time (either individually or in this combo)? Because I feel nothing and that's a bit of let down.

Xegh
14-01-2013, 22:54
"It is possible that choice of a drug modulates beneficial immune responses in the perioperative period. It has been demonstrated that tramadol can contribute to beneficial effects on immune functions in patients, namely, induce an improvement of postoperative immunosuppression and increase NK cell activity, lymphocyte proliferation and IL-2 production (Sacerdote et al., 1997; 1999; 2000). However, the mechanism of tramadol on modulating cytokine production is unknown."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579953/


"Furthermore, there are suggestions that chronic opioid administration may induce a state of immune tolerance,[32] although tramadol, in contrast to typical opioids may enhance immune function.[33][34][35] "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

Comparing it to massively stronger drugs such as oxycodone and hydrocodone seem irrelevant to this arguement unless you are suggesting taking more addictive substances is better for you then less addictive substances.

Like is said its a safe drug if used correctly. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. You had an unfortunate reaction. Many many people do not have that reaction at that dose. All drugs come with risks you have just used your emotions to try and degrade a drug due to your bad experience i dont think it is helpful.

laCster
14-01-2013, 22:58
have you used opiates before? what is your normal dose of clonazepam??? how often do you use kpin??

next time you might want to try 15-20mgs valium and 200mg tramadol. do NOT exceed 200mgs though!!! tramadol is a prodrug, it's opiate effects from its main metabolite O-desmethyltramadol. the enzymes that metabolize tramadol are limited, and if you take too much at once, your liver wont be able to process the good stuff and you will get more a stimulated NRI effect. think of a traffic jam leading into a tunnel or something, when all the cars are trying to go through, the roads are backed up and progress is very slow and limited, but if you spread out the time of amount of cars that go through, the cars will be able to pass through more efficiently and quickly.


how does this relate to tramadol? i recommend stacking/staggering your doses throughout the day.

for example, in the morning take 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol. 1-2hrs later, take another 5mg valium + 50mg tramadol. wait another 1-2hrs and take 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol. finally wait 1-2hrs and take the last dose of 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol. in 2-3 hours, you will be feeling good i promise.

the reason i suggest spreading out both valium and tram is because valium is also metabolized through the same enzyme your liver uses to metabolize tramadol into the good stuff. essentially, you can think of the valium being more cars trying to get through the tunnel.

good luck, dont drive and you might want to have a sitter around if you get to messed up! i doubt you will have a seizure from tramadol if you MAKE SURE to take the ultram with valium. valium is an excellent anticonvulsant and will help to prevent against seizures.


keep in mind, i gave you this advice to ensure the safest experience while using tramadol! you should be proud of yourself for not drinking any alcohol, you made the right choice :) smoking weed on the other hand is perfectly fine !

Xegh
14-01-2013, 22:59
Ok, alcohol is out of the question then. What would be a better a dose to try next time (either individually or in this combo)? Because I feel nothing and that's a bit of let down.

Some people only get very mild effects from Tramadol you maybe one of them so I wouldnt like Lacaster said not try and chase a high if 100mg did nothing its either not tramadol or you arent easily effected. It does tend to take about an hour to take effect and peaks at around 2-3 hours in my experience.

PR22
14-01-2013, 23:11
have you used opiates before? what is your normal dose of clonazepam??? how often do you use kpin??

2-6mg, only done it a couple times



for example, in the morning take 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol. 1-2hrs later, take another 5mg valium + 50mg tramadol. wait another 1-2hrs and take 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol. finally wait 1-2hrs and take the last dose of 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol. in 2-3 hours, you will be feeling good i promise.

So.. why don't I just do that now? It's been over 2hrs, how about another 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol? Sounds fun.


And thanks for all the advice man

laCster
14-01-2013, 23:11
"It is possible that choice of a drug modulates beneficial immune responses in the perioperative period. It has been demonstrated that tramadol can contribute to beneficial effects on immune functions in patients, namely, induce an improvement of postoperative immunosuppression and increase NK cell activity, lymphocyte proliferation and IL-2 production (Sacerdote et al., 1997; 1999; 2000). However, the mechanism of tramadol on modulating cytokine production is unknown."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579953/


"Furthermore, there are suggestions that chronic opioid administration may induce a state of immune tolerance,[32] although tramadol, in contrast to typical opioids may enhance immune function.[33][34][35] "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

Comparing it to massively stronger drugs such as oxycodone and hydrocodone seem irrelevant to this arguement unless you are suggesting taking more addictive substances is better for you then less addictive substances.

Like is said its a safe drug if used correctly. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. You had an unfortunate reaction. Many many people do not have that reaction at that dose. All drugs come with risks you have just used your emotions to try and degrade a drug due to your bad experience i dont think it is helpful.

nice find, butyour link suggests nothing about improving a patients immune system, i think you got a little confused on the meaning of immunosuppression. tramadol does not improve you immune system at all, and opiates tend to weaken the immune system. it says nothing about strengthening the immune system, but merely by inducing a antinociceptive effect, tramadol helps prevent the production of stress-inducing chemicals in response to having a surgery..after surgery, a patient's body is in a stress induced state and is trying to recover and recoup back to a normal-functioning state , and the study shws that tramadol suppresses an unwanted response from your body such as procuring stress chems. stress is known to weaken your immune system. this suggests nothing really special about tramadol, just that it might be better than morphine due to its dual-modes-of-action

and this only occurs after an injury, if a person is healthy and takes tramadol, the tramadol will most likely hamper the immune system in a slight malevolent way

this study is definitely not conclusive, and the link even states that this study is non conclusive! all research studies should be taken with a grain of salt...


2-6mg, only done it a couple times



So.. why don't I just do that now? It's been over 2hrs, how about another 5mg valium and 50mg tramadol? Sounds fun.


And thanks for all the advice man

damnn 2-6mgs klonopin? thats alot of fucking klonopin! no wonder you dont feel the valium!! dude, i have been taking benzos including klonopin for years and i only need 1-2mgs klonopin, even after years of on and off use...

Xegh
14-01-2013, 23:13
Tramadol may not have much effect on you ( recreationally ) so I would maybe suggest trying again another day at least I can not condone taking more as that would be chasing a high that may not happen, but hey its up to you bro.

baooozs
14-01-2013, 23:13
"It is possible that choice of a drug modulates beneficial immune responses in the perioperative period. It has been demonstrated that tramadol can contribute to beneficial effects on immune functions in patients, namely, induce an improvement of postoperative immunosuppression and increase NK cell activity, lymphocyte proliferation and IL-2 production (Sacerdote et al., 1997; 1999; 2000). However, the mechanism of tramadol on modulating cytokine production is unknown."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2579953/


"Furthermore, there are suggestions that chronic opioid administration may induce a state of immune tolerance,[32] although tramadol, in contrast to typical opioids may enhance immune function.[33][34][35] "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tramadol

Comparing it to massively stronger drugs such as oxycodone and hydrocodone seem irrelevant to this arguement unless you are suggesting taking more addictive substances is better for you then less addictive substances.

Like is said its a safe drug if used correctly. People have to take responsibility for their own actions. You had an unfortunate reaction. Many many people do not have that reaction at that dose. All drugs come with risks you have just used your emotions to try and degrade a drug due to your bad experience i dont think it is helpful.

Great study.

I have a few claiming cardioprotective properties of tramadol.





Tramadol should always be taken with a benzodiazepines to avoid risk of seizures.

Alcohol can induce seizures so do not mix it with tramadol.

Titrate slowly until you find an effective dosage and do not exceed 400 milligrams.

bunge
14-01-2013, 23:15
I wouldnt say tramadol is a shitty drug, infact if your body chemistry renders it effective then it can be a fantastic painkiller and mood elevator. However it is a dose sensitive drug and taking it at greater quantities then the label advises is a risky venture. One time you might be fine with 400mgs plus but another time 250mgs could leave you seizing badly. This doesnt mean its a shitty drug, just that its not really suitable for recreational use unless a suitable anti-convulsant is administered. Xegh, ive also never heard of tramadol having an immuno-boosting effect, if anything it should have an opposite effect as most opiates/opioids have a bad effect in the longterm on immune system but id defo be interested if you can provide a source.
OP your behaviour is risky at the least and dangerous/lethal at the worst. Im not meaning to be confrontational but please dont mix benzos and alcohol its a dangerous practice thats doomed to end up in a day out at your local hospitals emergency room. Mixing in an opioid is more then foolhardy. tramadol and diazepam is a safe enough mix in reasonable doses but as with alot of other drugs, adding any alcohol completely throws away any safety margin you might otherwise have had. The reason all cns depressing meds have do not drink alcohol on the box is because of the huge unpredictability inherent in this practice.

Xegh
14-01-2013, 23:18
LaCaster unfortunately there is another study that is coming to mind but that was just a quick search where they studied the long term tramadol patients over a period of 4 years, against a controlled study and found that the control contracted more colds, flu's and generally had higher rate of illness then patients on tramadol i believe the dose was 50mgs daily.

I will look into it so i can source it correctly.

bunge
14-01-2013, 23:19
Xegh, I take it all back.lol great links really interesting read and taught me a good lesson in winding my neck in!lol :-D

baooozs
14-01-2013, 23:21
ive also never heard of tramadol having an immuno-boosting effect

Neither have I, until I read that study.

You live, you learn!

Xegh
14-01-2013, 23:22
Xegh, I take it all back.lol great links really interesting read and taught me a good lesson in winding my neck in!lol :-D

HAHA do not think winding your neck in is necessary!!! Its a drug i have been interested in for a long time so have tried to study up!

laCster
14-01-2013, 23:27
it is a shitty drug. very limited opiate action, and causes seizures in low doses. it also affects multiple different parts of the brain such as being a SRA, NRI, NMDA-blocker, opiate-agonist, sigma-1 agonist, nicotinic ach antagonist, ect... giving the user a very dirty and shitty feeling

NRI's aren't recreational in my opinion lol


bunge, you do have a point about not mixing opiates and benzos, but tramadol is an exception to this rule. IMO taking tramadol with a benzo is safer than taking ultram without a benzo. also, the OP has a tolerance to benzos

PR22
14-01-2013, 23:30
damnn 2-6mgs klonopin? thats alot of fucking klonopin! no wonder you dont feel the valium!! dude, i have been taking benzos including klonopin for years and i only need 1-2mgs klonopin, even after years of on and off use...

Yeah, I seem to have a naturally high tolerance to just about everything. It kinda sucks.

Xegh
14-01-2013, 23:34
giving the user a very dirty and shitty feeling

Well that is purely an opinion, but thanks for sharing.

My opinion would be different, but there we are we have different bodies and the effects are clearly very different. Some people find strong opiates horrible and hate the drugged up feeling and dont feel any euphoria from it. Are we then to suppose that the user of strong opiates will find them horrible and dirty.

Hope you can understand that being heavily opinionated is not helpful. Especially saying its a shitty drug, that is basically a throw away comment.

laCster
14-01-2013, 23:41
Well that is purely an opinion, but thanks for sharing.

My opinion would be different, but there we are we have different bodies and the effects are clearly very different. Some people find strong opiates horrible and hate the drugged up feeling and dont feel any euphoria from it. Are we then to suppose that the user of strong opiates will find them horrible and dirty.

Hope you can understand that being heavily opinionated is not helpful. Especially saying its a shitty drug, that is basically a throw away comment.


lolol it is definitely an opinion! but if my opinion can deter someone from using too much tramadol, than it is helpful after all!! and hey, i never said that "tramadol is a shitty drug" is a fact LOLOL. its not like the prescribing info says, "yah tramadol sucks, its shitty" hahahah


Tramadol may not have much effect on you ( recreationally ) so I would maybe suggest trying again another day at least I can not condone taking more as that would be chasing a high that may not happen, but hey its up to you bro.

i definitely agree here!!! tramadol is shitty (There's that word again lolol) in terms of recreation. i agree with xegh again when he says try another day, i definitely think for the best and safest results, try another day


LaCaster unfortunately there is another study that is coming to mind but that was just a quick search where they studied the long term tramadol patients over a period of 4 years, against a controlled study and found that the control contracted more colds, flu's and generally had higher rate of illness then patients on tramadol i believe the dose was 50mgs daily.

I will look into it so i can source it correctly.

why is it unfortunate? lol... i enjoy learning and i learned something new today.... i honestly have no clue if tramadol will hurt the immune system, i was completely talking out of my ass and was assuming that because opiates tend to slightly weaken the immune system, so should tramadol. however, idk so i retract that statement. i doubt it really affects the immune system at all (talking out of my ass again). heh, studies are studies, you have to assume and scrutinize studies to really pull an accurate verdict because there is no way to know if the study was biased, was done properly, compared to other data, ect.. ect.... more often than not, pharm companies put out ridiculous studies promoting benefits of their drugs, and the study is usually one-sided. that's why i said you have to take the study with a grain a salt. i'm not implying that the study you found was shit, im just implying that skepticism is best when reading studies :)

Xegh
14-01-2013, 23:46
Ok i think we are sorted haha I said unfortunate because i cant find it last time i looked it was on google scholar and quite easy to find but maybe i am typing in the wrong keywords.

But yer some people do find it recreational.

I wasn't trying to ruffle your feathers so to speak. I am new here ( although been lurking for probably 4 years ) don't want any enemies.

:)

laCster
14-01-2013, 23:53
oh its all good man!!! i enjoyed it actually !! hahah yahh i have been on and off bluelight for a good bit of time now, met some really cool people!!

definitely pop into the OD or BDD social some time, there are lots of cool people ther!

anyways im out, spent the past couple hours on BL, and now im going to play guitar!!

peace

PR22
16-01-2013, 03:55
I took your advice and spaced out the doses

Tramadol/Diazepam :

t=0:00 100/5
t=1:30 50/5
t=2:30 50/5
t=3:40 50/0
t=3:55 0/5
t=5:10 50/5
t=5:55 0/5
t=7:30 50/5
t=8:40 0/10
t=9.30 0/5

Total: 350mg tramadol, 50mg diazepam

I had a pretty good time. I noticed that I stopped feeling better at about t=6:00, so the last Tramadol and 2 Valiums were basically a waste. Whatever, I know my dose now so I can stick to that.

Bambooshoot
16-01-2013, 05:06
Vallium Can be very enjoyable on its own. IME it's the kind of drug that you need to know what you are looking for in terms of effects. This comes from having taken it s couple of times and getting a feel for it. It's not like you take it and boom it hits you, it can be quite subtle. I would recommend for yourself with no tolerance to try 15-30mg on its own and see how you get on.

PR22
16-01-2013, 05:41
Vallium Can be very enjoyable on its own. IME it's the kind of drug that you need to know what you are looking for in terms of effects. This comes from having taken it s couple of times and getting a feel for it. It's not like you take it and boom it hits you, it can be quite subtle. I would recommend for yourself with no tolerance to try 15-30mg on its own and see how you get on.

Because the half life is so long, is there a substantial tolerance increase for the next day?

I took 30mg yesterday (very nice) and 50mg today (a bit too much, currently drinking coffee so I dno't fall asleep). If I take it again tomorrow, am I going to have to increase my dose a lot? Will I even feel anything?

Bambooshoot
16-01-2013, 08:21
Because the half life is so long, is there a substantial tolerance increase for the next day?

I took 30mg yesterday (very nice) and 50mg today (a bit too much, currently drinking coffee so I dno't fall asleep). If I take it again tomorrow, am I going to have to increase my dose a lot? Will I even feel anything? No you should be able to take 30mg again and still feel lovely!!

BCbakin
16-01-2013, 08:55
I love Vals and red wine... you get a really nice euphoria. Ive taken upto 70mgs of valium and can still drink a bottle of red wine in a night, and I dont do benzos often. Will do it a cpl nights in a row and still feel the same effects.

With that said, thats not a recommendation for dosing for anyone... But for this threads sake, at high doses taken consecutive days I didnt hardly notice a difference if at all.

Aphex747
16-01-2013, 12:02
drop the tramadol. trust me bro i had 2 seizures from tramadol and benzos. never before, never after, and the most tramadol i was using was 3 50mg pills at a time 1x a day. but lowers your seizure thresh hold significantly. you may be a little safer since valium has a long halflife, but i had 2 grandmals from CT on xanax and taking ultram to make me feel better. wow 70mg of valium?? the most ive done is 25 and that was real nice for a few hours. im trying to taper or break right now so i can get back to getting the normal buzz from my normal dose. once you gotta start taking more, its really time to start taking less. be safe! 70mg valium and a beer or two should be enough. if not take a break, thats what im doing. i started cutting back for the past few weeks and am about ready to jump off completely. im at 1mg klonopin/7.5mg valium every 4th day of the week. i put 3 days inbetween. i want to get back to taking 20mg's and getting faded from it. but my advice is ditch the ultram, they are part ssri. get some norco vicodins, that would be safer than tramadol. hope everything goes well!

Bambooshoot
16-01-2013, 16:00
I love Vals and red wine... you get a really nice euphoria. Ive taken upto 70mgs of valium and can still drink a bottle of red wine in a night, and I dont do benzos often. Will do it a cpl nights in a row and still feel the same effects.
This is extremely wreckless advice to give. Aside from the obvious CNS depression, Valium and alcohol can make some people very aggressive. Just because it's okay for you there is no telling how the OP will react.

BCbakin
16-01-2013, 18:33
This is extremely wreckless advice to give. Aside from the obvious CNS depression, Valium and alcohol can make some people very aggressive. Just because it's okay for you there is no telling how the OP will react.

there was no advice given... just an example that u can do high doses consecutive days in a row without your tolerance being effected.

PR22
16-01-2013, 20:15
there was no advice given... just an example that u can do high doses consecutive days in a row without your tolerance being effected.

And tramadol, are the effects significantly less the next day?

Tramadol kind of sucks in my opinion. I think I'll just start my valium for the day with 100mg to round out the high then ignore it. Tramadol is very weak, not very euphoric, and apparently quite dangerous. Considering codeine is legal where I live, I think I'll just stick to that.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

Xegh
16-01-2013, 21:05
Good plan if you are not in the lucky Tramadol love wagon get off it before you have a seizure !!!

BCbakin
16-01-2013, 23:48
And tramadol, are the effects significantly less the next day?

Tramadol kind of sucks in my opinion. I think I'll just start my valium for the day with 100mg to round out the high then ignore it. Tramadol is very weak, not very euphoric, and apparently quite dangerous. Considering codeine is legal where I live, I think I'll just stick to that.

Thanks for all the advice guys!

i have zero experience with tramadol so I cant speak for that sorry. ^ are you saying 100mgs of tramadol or valium?

BCbakin
17-01-2013, 01:53
they're not even close to the enjoyment and euphoria I get from Kratom

huh id like to try this some day. Ive never heard of it before.

marcus882
17-01-2013, 02:29
Actually I did 150mg of tramadol and it was great, today i have 6mg of bromazepam(about 10mg of valium), 37,5 of tramadol and some valerian pills, i would like to know if im going to get a good buzz from this? and should i take all at the same time?