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THE_REAL_OBLIVION
19-09-2013, 16:41
Alright, I've been on 10mg since a week now, finally have all of my privileges (works like methadone here ugh), but at least its just one visit at the pharmacy a week, unless i got some stuff to renew, but then I abuse the free delivery service tons, I felt abused having to walk for my methadone all winter on non privilege days.

At 10mg it is perfect and yes, if I use 2 shots of listerine to clean my mouth real well, then just push in a tiny bit under my tongue and put the 8mg and 2mg pill in there, I do feel a difference...I feel really opiated this morning much more than I should, it's not very euphoric but it is noddy and relaxing.

I'm not gonna increase the BA like this all the time as I want off it, I have an appnt with my neurologist in november (probably the longest to see specialists of all here) and I have a LOT of things to get off my chest at that old man who caused me to appreciate opiate painkilling, and having him take it away like that, well not really, but he would give me 1 script of Oxy IR 5mg or Codeine Contins 200mg twice a day which was well enough for me, but it would only have 1 refill and sometimes no refill and he NEVER as a policy renew any script for pain by phone...and it takes 4-5 months to see him if you take an appnt, as you can all see. He's the reason I went black market for my legit pain issue. And now that the negotiations with pharmacists and the government failed, it's gonna take more time still for them to be able to renew a script, of any kind, when they know you cannot see a doctor for a while. Fucking dumb pharmacists, they wanted to charge people for that, when already 2 other provinces have this system working and it goes with our global insurance.

But yeah, this is miraculous, I just wish I hadn't chosen methadone at first, I was convinced to go for it for the pain killing...now I gotta shoot (SC) testosterone in me once a week and the cortisol issue also caused by methadone is left in the air, the endocrinology clinic says they have my name but no time to call me and give me an appnt yet. Canada is sometimes ahead of other nation or nation-bodies but us getting bupe only 2 years ago is retarded.

mydrugbuddy
19-09-2013, 17:20
But anyhow I'm sure the sub will make stopping way easier than no sub?? Is that correct?

its not as completely straightforward as that. I switched from ah7921 to Bupe for the intention of quitting opiates. But i enjoyed bupe so much i went on a 2 month party spree with it and raised my tolerance. It just floods you with a feeling of wellness, so trying to cut down when you have 'the cure' that long term isnt a cure right infront of you, requires a lot of strength, both mental and physical.

Im finding i cant face the pain every day, so am trying alternate days of lowered dose. Im down from uncounted amounts to being OK on 3mg. I feel rough on 2mg but hopefully my body will soon get used to just 2mg and then i can stop the 3mg doses, or try 2.5. I really am a fuckin woose though and cant stand suffering or pain. Im trying to make it as painless as possible. I think there is a way out using subs, but its not a walk in the park by any means.

I didnt get on a managed or supervised sub withdrawal program, so having to source them yourself, and only yourself to control the use, makes it harder, when its so easy to give in. You have to push on through the shit to get anywhere.

thedawn
19-09-2013, 18:27
suboxone works on depression too.
I feel it should be prescribed for treatment resistant depression.
I love what suboxone has done for my life.
it gave me one.

mydrugbuddy
19-09-2013, 19:47
Yes it works brilliantly as a mood lifter but you could develop a tolerance so that the initial dose is no longer effective, and your body will have stopped producing its own feel good chemicals, so you could need an ever increasing dose. There must be a reason why Bupe isnt prescribed for depression, because you're certainly right that it works for treating it. The reason is that the stuff is so prone to abuse.

Freud found that prescribing Cocaine to his patients lifted their depression. He didnt forsee the tolerance, addiction, and abuse issues.

Cane2theLeft
19-09-2013, 20:14
^ I just wanted to point out that as a partial agonist with incredible binding affinity but low activity, buprenorphine actually has a very low ceiling dose for it's agonism so increasing the dose past a couple milligrams won't increase the benefits, only the blockade effect it has on other opioids.

I'm right with you regarding the drawbacks of prescribing something like this for clinical psychiatric disorders but I think such options should be on the table for the most severe, treatment-resistant populations. The only problem with this is that if you get formal FDA clearance to treat say Major Depressive Disorder then you have a thousand Reckitt Benckiser reps giving free samples to every GP who will agree to a free lunch and everyone who has had a bad day and sees their doctor walks about with a sample of a drug indicated to replace heroin in addicts.

runescape
19-09-2013, 21:21
suboxone works on depression too.
I feel it should be prescribed for treatment resistant depression.
I love what suboxone has done for my life.
it gave me one.

agreed. been on it for almost 3 weeks now at 16-24mg doses (now trying to lower after seeing this thread lol) and it has made great improvements on lowering my anxiety and giving me the energy and motivation out of my depression


Hmmm, I sold a decent amount so rarely took the 32mg/day (probably did 7 days out of the month though), and usually took 16mg/day. This was for 18 months and I stopped without tapering and the withdrawals were worse than any dope kick I've ever done. Over two months later I got a hold of morphine and needed 300mg to get me right, and my tolerance to oxy was around 90mg after all that time, and never really got below that.

The equivalency chart has 1mg suboxone = 30mg oxycodone, so it's no wonder tolerance is so high, although the ceiling effect cuts it off well below the doses most people are at. I would say that the highest dose of oxy that you can be on and the switch to suboxone be painless is in the low to mid 200's which would have the ceiling dose around 6mg for me, which is close to what Cane said.


Wow lol. That is kind of sad that after so long you still needed incredible doses. Don't think I will ever go back to dope now lol... which is a good thing too I guess.

BlueHues
19-09-2013, 21:36
The only problem with this is that if you get formal FDA clearance to treat say Major Depressive Disorder then you have a thousand Reckitt Benckiser reps giving free samples to every GP who will agree to a free lunch and everyone who has had a bad day and sees their doctor walks about with a sample of a drug indicated to replace heroin in addicts.

^That would be quite the scenario! And of course it would make the normal, non-addict population with depression feel better.....It's opiates for God's sake! Of course RB and the doctors prescribing it would completely downplay the whole physical dependence thing and you'd have people getting physically addicted to detox/maintenance drug that never even had a drug problem before in their lives.

I guess the question is:

Do the positive effects in treating depression outweigh the physical addiction and other side-effects of buprenorphine?

I think it actually may.

Tommyboy
19-09-2013, 21:58
^ I wonder what dose they would start those people on, probably would have to make a lower dosage or bring temgesic here since 0.2mg is probably the highest dose a person that hasn't taken opioids before could handle at first while still being functional.

To those that say that suboxone works with depression, I again direct you to one of Canes previous posts where he discusses how PAWS may be responsible for the depression and/or anxiety that a lot of people feel after they quit taking opiates/opioids, which is part of the dilemma that a lot of people face when deciding if they want to be medicated or not in early recovery. If the depression is caused by PAWS then of course it will subside with the re-introduction of a drug in the same class as your DOC, and if it's not caused by PAWS the mood-lifting ability of it will still work on you which should help with depression too.

I think the real question is whether this type of treatment if sustainable in the long-run. A lot of people feel that suboxone looses its magic after a while (1 year seems to be a common theme) and some even feel that it turns on them, which is why I personally don't think it's good for treating chronic depression. The other reason is that it has bad withdrawals and PAWS so if it stops working after a while you are going to be in bad shape after getting off of it, and the depression will be that much worse. Then you are back to square one wondering if you should try other meds for depression or if you should just wait it out to see if it was just PAWS.

ellua
20-09-2013, 00:34
adder perhaps there's a deeper issue, lingering depression or mania or something that's causing your symptoms? please don't take offense, but some of the things you mentioned were concerning and don't sound as simple as side effects. i hope you find something that works for you one way or another.

runescape
20-09-2013, 20:43
Suboxone's antidepressant effects aren't just a result of removing PAWS for me. So far, I feel better and more functional on it then I was before when I never even tried opiates. I have struggled with depression/anxiety before, and self-medicated with heroin. My depression/anxiety isn't so much PAWS related but more so something I've had before opiates. This is a great alternative imo and the energy boost and uplifting feeling is great.

Tommyboy
20-09-2013, 23:47
Suboxone's antidepressant effects aren't just a result of removing PAWS for me. So far, I feel better and more functional on it then I was before when I never even tried opiates. I have struggled with depression/anxiety before, and self-medicated with heroin. My depression/anxiety isn't so much PAWS related but more so something I've had before opiates. This is a great alternative imo and the energy boost and uplifting feeling is great.

It worked best for me at 2mg, but my symptoms were probably PAWS related and that 2mg was enough to tickle my opioid receptors enough to take away the symptoms. When I got above the 2-3mg range I felt the drug too much, and I don't particularly like the feeling of a big dose of suboxone so I like to stay low. The 2mg was perfect for that since it took away the symptoms yet didn't really alter my mind at all aside from not feeling as shitty. Also no side effects at that dose, whereas I got a lot at higher doses (diminished sex drive, constipation, anxiety, head aches, and tired in the morning, wired at night).

Fire&Water
21-09-2013, 01:07
The 0.3 mg. Buprenex ampules (IM) are by far the most efficient ROA to get the most from Buprenorphine.
Because it is derived from Thebaine, most opioid naive individuals are going to experience pain killing and mood elevating properties, but these benefits will diminish rapidly when used on a regular basis.

One can come close to these effects dissolving 1-3 mg's Subutex in a couple drops of liquor soaked into a Q-Tip cotton and used sublingual, (the longer it lies under the tongue the better) or plugging works just as well given the tiny amount of fluid used, that is water, not alcohol...besides the higher amounts prescribed for opioid abstinence maintenance, the current formulation of Suboxone, Subutex, Subsolv (sp?) are only beneficial in 2 mg (and under doses, or 0.3 IM Buprenex) if used on a very occasional basis.
no matter what you are using it for, or how your body utilizes it...

runescape
21-09-2013, 04:21
It worked best for me at 2mg, but my symptoms were probably PAWS related and that 2mg was enough to tickle my opioid receptors enough to take away the symptoms. When I got above the 2-3mg range I felt the drug too much, and I don't particularly like the feeling of a big dose of suboxone so I like to stay low. The 2mg was perfect for that since it took away the symptoms yet didn't really alter my mind at all aside from not feeling as shitty. Also no side effects at that dose, whereas I got a lot at higher doses (diminished sex drive, constipation, anxiety, head aches, and tired in the morning, wired at night).

I am trying 2mg doses recently instead of my usual 16-24mg doses (wish I went to this thread sooner so I didn't waste so much suboxone lol). I do find 2mg quite nice and gives me the least side effects. My constipation from 16-24mg was almost worse as my constipation on dope. I have noticed for the past 3 weeks I've been on subs I have had an extremely diminished sex drive also. I haven't had any release since I started it lol. I only get headaches when I swallow the spit, which I guess contains some naloxine.

Fire&Water
21-09-2013, 04:46
For anyone taking 16-32 mg. Bupe' doses for a few weeks in a row - it's going to take at least that long of basically abstaining from it to notice what the benefits are of a properly administered, sublingual 2 mg's ...

BlueHues
21-09-2013, 04:47
^Even if your doctor is using Suboxone off-label for depression and claims you need to be on it for eternity, why the fuck would he start you off at the absolute highest amount that can legally be prescribed? Wouldn't he want to find the lowest effective dose and go from there? Starting someone at 32mgs a day leaves no room to raise the dose, is completely unnecessary and won't do anything more than 12mgs will do for you other than increase the side-effect profile.

It's almost like this guy is using you as a guinea pig for his own untested theories of using suboxone for treating depression. Maybe he just likes the idea of your receptors being completely saturated because it just "sounds" like it should work better. I guess some doctors are such ego-maniacs that they don't take patient feedback into account when prescribing meds, they go exclusively off what they've studied about the drug.

There's some people out there that have been seeing doctors, getting prescribed meds and have been around other people on psych meds or pain killers for so long they could probably do a better job of prescribing meds than some of the doctors out there! Half of it's just trial and error anyway.... I guess a doctor should know what meds are contraindicated for certain conditions or when taken in combination with other drugs....allergies etc.

For half of us on BL we could probably do a pretty good job of prescribing meds to ourselves, the doctors appointments are just a nuisance half the time, a hoop you have to jump through. If all drugs were legalized that would be an interesting aspect of it that hasn't been discussed much; people just coming up with their own prescription regimens.

runescape
21-09-2013, 05:26
For anyone taking 16-32 mg. Bupe' doses for a few weeks in a row - it's going to take at least that long of basically abstaining from it to notice what the benefits are of a properly administered, sublingual 2 mg's ...

so are you saying I have to not touch bupe for 2-3 weeks...? won't i go into bad withdrawal... The first week I took 8mg everyday. Second week 16mg-24mg everyday. I only took 32mg once. I've been taking 8-12mg for the past 3-4 days

runescape
21-09-2013, 05:30
^Even if your doctor is using Suboxone off-label for depression and claims you need to be on it for eternity, why the fuck would he start you off at the absolute highest amount that can legally be prescribed? Wouldn't he want to find the lowest effective dose and go from there? Starting someone at 32mgs a day leaves no room to raise the dose, is completely unnecessary and won't do anything more than 12mgs will do for you other than increase the side-effect profile.

It's almost like this guy is using you as a guinea pig for his own untested theories of using suboxone for treating depression. Maybe he just likes the idea of your receptors being completely saturated because it just "sounds" like it should work better. I guess some doctors are such ego-maniacs that they don't take patient feedback into account when prescribing meds, they go exclusively off what they've studied about the drug.

There's some people out there that have been seeing doctors, getting prescribed meds and have been around other people on psych meds or pain killers for so long they could probably do a better job of prescribing meds than some of the doctors out there! Half of it's just trial and error anyway.... I guess a doctor should know what meds are contraindicated for certain conditions or when taken in combination with other drugs....allergies etc.

For half of us on BL we could probably do a pretty good job of prescribing meds to ourselves, the doctors appointments are just a nuisance half the time, a hoop you have to jump through. If all drugs were legalized that would be an interesting aspect of it that hasn't been discussed much; people just coming up with their own prescription regimens.

I have no idea :/ I am kind of worried that I followed my doctors advice. When I first met him I thought he had the best intentions for me. He is a very nice person and has great ratings. Although he was very pushy on asking me "do you feel like the best "runescape" or do you think you need more.."? I really had no idea how suboxone worked so I'd say okay I'll take more, in my mind "more of it is stronger". Guess I was wrong. I took 8mg first. The next day he calls me and tells me to raise it to 16mg if I want to. Then the next week 24mg. Then now up to 32mg. I think he thinks more is better or something...? I don't know why. But now I'm not in denial anymore and I believe that I could have been stable on doses less then 8mg if I didn't jump so high already...

I don't think he is prescribing so much suboxone maliciously. Maybe he is just clueless....

Whatever. I'm seeing him next weekend, I'm going to tell him I've been taking 24mgs when in reality I'm going to try to reduce my dose 8mgs. I'm just going to keep the leftover suboxone. My Dad who knows nothing about suboxone, only has been researching it until when I got prescribed, doesn't really know the dosing either. My doctor was trying to assure him that it was fine though at my dose.... -.- my Dad doesn't want me to use too much suboxone either and only wants me to use the needed amount. I'm telling him that I'm taking 3 films still though because I don't know how to address it with him plus my clueless doctor...

will it be a hard jump from 24mg to 2-4mg... :/ I can take 8mg comfortably throughout the day and not crave if I want to.

BlueHues
21-09-2013, 05:49
^I don't think anyone here is encouraging you to go lower than you're comfortable with, take as much as you feel you need, whatever that turns out to be...It's just that, anything over 16 is completely unnecessary. I don't know that being on that much would make it harder for you in the long run or what, but if nothing else it's a waste of drugs. saving it has been a godsend for me, I've ended up using what I saved or being able to help out others who really needed it.

runescape
21-09-2013, 07:03
^I don't think anyone here is encouraging you to go lower than you're comfortable with, take as much as you feel you need, whatever that turns out to be...It's just that, anything over 16 is completely unnecessary. I don't know that being on that much would make it harder for you in the long run or what, but if nothing else it's a waste of drugs. saving it has been a godsend for me, I've ended up using what I saved or being able to help out others who really needed it.

Okay. I think I'll try to keep it in the 4-12mg range. I just found out that my insurance doesn't cover more of my subxone. I am going to talk to my doctor and try and get subutex instead heard it is much cheaper

Tommyboy
21-09-2013, 08:20
so are you saying I have to not touch bupe for 2-3 weeks...? won't i go into bad withdrawal... The first week I took 8mg everyday. Second week 16mg-24mg everyday. I only took 32mg once. I've been taking 8-12mg for the past 3-4 days

More like whatever dose you lower down to will take a week or so for you to really be down to since there's a bunch of it built up in you in higher doses. And as far as dropping your dose, most people are fine with it until they get to like 2mg and below, but the short amount of time you have been on it will work in your favor when lowering down.

Slum Survivor
21-09-2013, 20:10
damnit! i hurt my lower back... ive been on about 6mg sub for a little over a month. last 4-5 days ive taken about 4mg. i havent taken my dose yet today so its been about 26 hours.

im in severe pain and have to do something. im considering going and grabbing a few bags but dont want to sit here and blast away my money with no gain.

would u all say im better off just taking my sub today like normal, and then maybe trying to take some tramadol afterwards? (since i hear the combo works sometimes)

already trying NSAID's not getting too far.

runescape
21-09-2013, 21:10
Can doctors who prescribe suboxone prescribe subutex also...? I have read some reports that some prefer the subutex then the suboxone. Probably because of the naloxone or whatever. Anyone have experience with both medications and noticed a difference? I spit out my suboxone btw after I read that it could cause more side effects if you swallow.

Slum Survivor
21-09-2013, 21:22
my dr wont give subutex out. my old dr would. they just dont understand the naloxone does nothing. im in the same boat bro. bout to go drop a ton of cash for my script.

runescape
21-09-2013, 21:36
my dr wont give subutex out. my old dr would. they just dont understand the naloxone does nothing. im in the same boat bro. bout to go drop a ton of cash for my script.

dang lol, I haven't talked to my doctor about it but hopefully he will be open to the idea. I don't understand why naloxone is even in there like you said, even if you IV suboxone I heard it doesn't put the user in precipitated w/ds anyways. I just want to see if subutex feels any different.

And if I were you I would stick with the suboxone and not the dope lol, I heard tramadol has some synergistic effects with suboxone but I haven't tried tramadol before.

you're going to drop cash for your suboxone script?

THE_REAL_OBLIVION
21-09-2013, 22:01
My meth/suboxone docs told me that if I got hurt I had to mention I am on suboxone because they'd have to use less used things like Demerol. Apparently, I could get high on demerol over suboxone, if only I could get some of the 50mg pills again...just kidding, but I liked Demerol a lot, I guess that's part of me being a weird patient. Oh also she said if it was an extreme injury then it would be fentanyl pops.

aesthetics13
22-09-2013, 21:40
I been searching for the answer to this question everywhere on the web with no results. If I ate 1 single 8 mg film over 5 days at 2, 2, 2, 1, 1. How long would the withdrawal be? I am at about 151 Hours now since my last 1mg.

BlueHues
22-09-2013, 21:53
^Are you looking for an exact answer based on thatexact amount? ;)

If so, you're gonna have a hard time finding it! Nobody could give you one anyway though...The best way to tell is how you feel now. You're a week in. Things improve gradually with suboxone. IME, the worst of it is over in about 10 days or so.... The acute withdrawal period lasts longer than short-acting opiates though, so if it's been a week and you still feel like complete shit, relax....You're almost out of the woods!

I used heroin for a many years and I've been prescribed Suboxone for over 7, but the majority of those years I never even touched my script, so I'e only gotten off of Sub completely twice. If you were using it just as a detox med to taper off some other opiate for a week your WDs should be considerably shorted than someone coming off of buprenorphine itself. Of course, if you use suboxone for 10+ days the timetable of your detox will be on "suboxone time", not whatever other opiate you were coming off.

It gets complicated when you start factoring in the half-life of suboxone and your individual physiology, so nobody can tell you with absolute certainty how long your withdrawal symptoms will last. I can tell you that, with a week in....things should start improving drastically very soon...Hang in there!

aesthetics13
22-09-2013, 22:05
^Are you looking for an exact answer based on thatexact amount? ;)

If so, you're gonna have a hard time finding it! Nobody could give you one anyway though...The best way to tell is how you feel now. You're a week in. Things improve gradually with suboxone. IME, the worst of it is over in about 10 days or so.... The acute withdrawal period lasts longer than short-acting opiates though, so if it's been a week and you still feel like complete shit, relax....You're almost out of the woods!

I used heroin for a many years and I've been prescribed Suboxone for over 7, but the majority of those years I never even touched my script, so I'e only gotten off of Sub completely twice. If you were using it just as a detox med to taper off some other opiate for a week your WDs should be considerably shorted than someone coming off of buprenorphine itself. Of course, if you use suboxone for 10+ days the timetable of your detox will be on "suboxone time", not whatever other opiate you were coming off.

It gets complicated when you start factoring in the half-life of suboxone and your individual physiology, so nobody can tell you with absolute certainty how long your withdrawal symptoms will last. I can tell you that, with a week in....things should start improving drastically very soon...Hang in there!


Thank you so much for your time to answer my question! I used H for about 2 months at 1-2 packs a day, then the sub was only one single 8 mg film that I split up in 5 days, I do still feel like shit but it comes in waves. I had to drink alcohol then take xanax to knock me out for a few of the nights, and last night I slept for 8 hours with the help of nothing. It's just seems like it's been so long, and these damn woods are dark, it's hard to see and I feel these demons are hunting down my well being I wanna get out and back into the light! I am hoping tomorrow morning I'm better, but I can only hope. I do have 2 more 2mg bars of Xanax left but I don't wanna risk withdrawal from the benzo's since I used them for a few days already...

BlueHues
22-09-2013, 22:21
^Man, what you're doing is hard, and nobody is gonna come along and give you a pat on the back! but those of us who've been there understand the guts and stamina it takes to ride it out! You're almost there, don't give up now or it will be all for nothing! If feels really good to be off opiates when the sickness fades and your self-esteem comes back, it's worth it! believe me!

There's this Steven Seagal movie from the '80s called "Hard to Kill"...basically he ends up getting put in a coma for seven years by some bad-ass criminals and wakes up 7 years later....He wants to get revenge, but after being in a coma for 7 years, he's all weak and fucked up...

There's this scene that shows Steven Seagal trying to build himself back up so that he can go get revenge on the people that put him in the coma...It shows him doing all kinds of different excercises and martial arts training...I always think of that scene when I'm kicking opiates and I feel like I can't stand it for another second! It's a fucking battle that takes a lot of mental toughness to get through!

Ian937
23-09-2013, 04:28
Hang in there aesthetics im rootin for ya! Plz keep us updated when you start to feel good
Myself i have been a 5+ yr H user and using subs 75% of the days in the last year.. I envy your situation trust me..
I recently got fkd over by my subclinic by their terriblr schedulingpractices and ended up back on H , i wanted to bedone with the subs so i ordered about 100grams of kratom from a reliable vendor, and unfortunatley i feel that ive done too much damage to my receptors for kratom to really be an option unless i can really get my tolerance down.. I didnt reallygive it a real shot though because i was so sick by day 2 i ran to the dope spot.. I do not want to be on buprenorphine for much longer but to be honest im not sure i can stay off dope as long asim in this state because the PAWS gets me everytime

I find it interesting how after an H run a few days on subs and I begin to get my sex drive back about.not 100% but still, i know bupe doesnt affect T like full agonists though, i also get my tasteformusic back, energy, overall better mood, i refer to this as a pink cloud but after about 45 days on bupe only i feel like my opiate receptors shut down and suffer crippling depression.. I wonder if thats the bupe or the naloxone.. When i go back to the sub clinic next month i am going to DEMAND Subutex!!

Slum Survivor
23-09-2013, 05:28
so im having a hard time finding good info on this so ill try asking in here...

i took a "vacation" from my suboxone dose of about 6mg for 30 hours in order to do some dope. i had been on subs at 6mg a day for 5 weeks, and 4mg but using alcohol to increase the BA the last week before the "vacation".

so i got pretty damn high shooting 3 bags of average dope. higher than i expected to get since it had only been 30 hours since my last sub dose.

18 hours after doing that shot of dope, i started to feel a couple w/d symptoms so i figured id be safe to go ahead and take my 4mg of sub(with vodka for BA)
5 mins after i placed the sub under my tongue with the vodka, like normal, i started to feel the effects of precipitated withdrawal coming on slowly. so i rushed and spit out the sub and rinsed out my mouth real good. that halted the PW's from getting any worse, and i took 1mg klonopin and a hot shower to feel a little better and go on with my day.

most people can go back to taking their sub again after taking a dope break without having to wait more than 12 hours, some less than that.

one well experienced person even told me they used to do this all the time, take a day off of sub to get high, and then take the sub again the next day before w/d starts and not experience any PW's

why the heck is the sub giving me PW's??
should i be okay to try a little bit(1-2mg) more and see how i feel since its been about 8 hours since i last tried to take that sub and had to spit it out?

BlueHues
23-09-2013, 07:00
I doubt you would have gone into full-blown precipitated withdrawal...If there's one thing in this life I have experience with, it's fucking around with going bazck and forth on Sub and heroin!

As long as you just make it a day or so of using dope, you'll be able to jump right back on without any problems...when you initially take it after using dope for a day, you will feel a little weird as the sub kicks the heroin off and reasserts it's dominance over your receptors but you won't actually get sick. that's all you were experiencing I'm sure. If you did dope heavy for 3 days shooting up heroin 10+ times and then dosed suboxone, it would be a different story!

you can pretty much get away with it for a full 24 hours off the bupe...that could include getting high at night and even doing some the following morning, and then dosing the suboxone late the following night. If you keep going all day the next day into the night and wait until the following morning, that's where it gets iffy, but even then, if you wait until you're in true WDs, you should still be able to hop back on with just feeling a little weird for a few hours...

what eventually happens though...it gets to where whenever you decide to get off heroin and get back on Suboxone, you're in a state of cold clammy shittiness for 2-3 days no matter how long you wait or how you take the suboxone! It really sucks, at times you can feel the suboxone start to work and you're not in hardcore heroin WDs, but it's anxiety city for a good few days! It's almost like having to half kick dope just to get on the Suboxone...and then, you have to get off the suboxone itself! Once you get to that point it really ruins sub as a detox drug, and personally I think methadone is better for a short taper anyway...

I've had a few friends that were playing around with the back and forth shit on Sub for awhile who had no problem going back and forth until one day, Bam! It's like something in your brain chemistry changes and you can't do it anymore!

runescape
23-09-2013, 09:57
Anyone know if it is likely that suboxone films are traced back to you if it is somehow diverted to other people? I know there is a QR and serial number on the back which supposedly can trace back to the pharmacy and whos prescription it is.

Also, if you are covered by insurance is getting 90 films a month the same cost if you were getting 30 or 60?

Tommyboy
23-09-2013, 10:28
dang lol, I haven't talked to my doctor about it but hopefully he will be open to the idea. I don't understand why naloxone is even in there like you said, even if you IV suboxone I heard it doesn't put the user in precipitated w/ds anyways. I just want to see if subutex feels any different.

And if I were you I would stick with the suboxone and not the dope lol, I heard tramadol has some synergistic effects with suboxone but I haven't tried tramadol before.

you're going to drop cash for your suboxone script?

A lot of people that want subutex want it because it is cheaper than suboxone, especially for those that pay out-of-pocket (no insurance) for their prescriptions.


Thank you so much for your time to answer my question! I used H for about 2 months at 1-2 packs a day, then the sub was only one single 8 mg film that I split up in 5 days, I do still feel like shit but it comes in waves. I had to drink alcohol then take xanax to knock me out for a few of the nights, and last night I slept for 8 hours with the help of nothing. It's just seems like it's been so long, and these damn woods are dark, it's hard to see and I feel these demons are hunting down my well being I wanna get out and back into the light! I am hoping tomorrow morning I'm better, but I can only hope. I do have 2 more 2mg bars of Xanax left but I don't wanna risk withdrawal from the benzo's since I used them for a few days already...

Sounds like you are just about over the acute withdrawals. I would lay off the alcohol, at least for a little while otherwise you might pick up a drinking habit to replace your dope habit. I know tons of people that have turned to heavy drinking when opiates weren't around, myself and bluehues being a few of them, although I haven't turned back to alcohol since quitting opiates this time.


There's this Steven Seagal movie from the '80s called "Hard to Kill"...basically he ends up getting put in a coma for seven years by some bad-ass criminals and wakes up 7 years later....He wants to get revenge, but after being in a coma for 7 years, he's all weak and fucked up...

There's this scene that shows Steven Seagal trying to build himself back up so that he can go get revenge on the people that put him in the coma...It shows him doing all kinds of different excercises and martial arts training...I always think of that scene when I'm kicking opiates and I feel like I can't stand it for another second! It's a fucking battle that takes a lot of mental toughness to get through!

Sounds like a classic 80's montage was in there (I liked the South Park spoof (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qAKnwFNfQGs) on them).


Anyone know if it is likely that suboxone films are traced back to you if it is somehow diverted to other people? I know there is a QR and serial number on the back which supposedly can trace back to the pharmacy and whos prescription it is.

Also, if you are covered by insurance is getting 90 films a month the same cost if you were getting 30 or 60?

Co-pays are usually the same for different quantities of the same drug. The difference in co-pay is usually only brand name vs generic. Like all brand name drugs might be $15 with insurance and all generics $5. If you don't have insurance though, that's a way different story.

Oh, and no idea about the tracing.

Mr.Scagnattie
23-09-2013, 15:53
Anyone know if it is likely that suboxone films are traced back to you if it is somehow diverted to other people? I know there is a QR and serial number on the back which supposedly can trace back to the pharmacy and whos prescription it is.

Also, if you are covered by insurance is getting 90 films a month the same cost if you were getting 30 or 60?

Yes they can trace the script back to you. That's why when people sell their strips, they cut off all the barcodes and shit.

Slum Survivor
23-09-2013, 16:27
I doubt you would have gone into full-blown precipitated withdrawal...If there's one thing in this life I have experience with, it's fucking around with going bazck and forth on Sub and heroin!

As long as you just make it a day or so of using dope, you'll be able to jump right back on without any problems...when you initially take it after using dope for a day, you will feel a little weird as the sub kicks the heroin off and reasserts it's dominance over your receptors but you won't actually get sick. that's all you were experiencing I'm sure. If you did dope heavy for 3 days shooting up heroin 10+ times and then dosed suboxone, it would be a different story!

you can pretty much get away with it for a full 24 hours off the bupe...that could include getting high at night and even doing some the following morning, and then dosing the suboxone late the following night. If you keep going all day the next day into the night and wait until the following morning, that's where it gets iffy, but even then, if you wait until you're in true WDs, you should still be able to hop back on with just feeling a little weird for a few hours...

what eventually happens though...it gets to where whenever you decide to get off heroin and get back on Suboxone, you're in a state of cold clammy shittiness for 2-3 days no matter how long you wait or how you take the suboxone! It really sucks, at times you can feel the suboxone start to work and you're not in hardcore heroin WDs, but it's anxiety city for a good few days! It's almost like having to half kick dope just to get on the Suboxone...and then, you have to get off the suboxone itself! Once you get to that point it really ruins sub as a detox drug, and personally I think methadone is better for a short taper anyway...

I've had a few friends that were playing around with the back and forth shit on Sub for awhile who had no problem going back and forth until one day, Bam! It's like something in your brain chemistry changes and you can't do it anymore!

No sir, i certainly was experiencing PW... instant pupil dilation, super fast hot/freeze sweats, instant extreme anxiety yeah PW all the way.

it had been 18 hours since my dope shot, and i had been off sub for 30 hours before i took my shot of dope. so when i went to re-dose the sub it had been 48 hours since i had took any sub. only took ONE day off to get high, and only got high once.
EDIT: i just remembered that i took 100mg of tramadol around 3 am that night after i got high and was coming down, cuz my back was hurting. i wonder if the tramadol could have something to do with why i got the PW's when i went to take my sub the next day? probably has nothing to do with it(took tram about 12 hours before trying sub again, heroin was 18 hours before sub), but i figured id add it in since its true.
this morning im still afraid to take my normal sub dose... i sure hope it doesnt give me PW's seems like i should be able to take it tho. this sucks bad.

Ian937
23-09-2013, 19:07
IMO slum survivor you experienced the PWDs because you had been off the sub for what you said 48 hrs. So it makes sense bupes half life is like 37 hrs i believe so if you did a shot 30 hrs after your laat sub dose im sure that H had pleanty of receptors to cling onto.. Im guessing your a slow metabolizer if u caught the pwds 18 hrs later though or just had some bomb ass D either way best bet is get back onto sub..
I m on day 4 transitioning back to subs for the 100th time..shits really gettin old, i rarely have any success on bupe ovet a couple weeks .. If my city had a done clinic i rly think id give it a shot and ive heard pleanty of MD Horror stories.. Gona try for Subutex maybe itll make a difference but am doubtful.

Slum Survivor
23-09-2013, 19:28
i know right?? why did i have to be the freak... its not like i stay high longer than others. the dope was just okay too. did 3 bags. and yeah i did get really high so i knew alot of the heroin got to my receptors.

but some people get high, meaning enough that they had plenty of dope on their receptors, and can still go right back to taking sub w/o having to wait for w/d's at all.

and how the heck can my body metabolize bupe quicker than normal, but heroin/morphine slower than normal?? i mean look at the time amounts i gave... its surprising that i even GOT high, i actually got really high.

perhaps since i spit out the remaining saliva after letting my sub dissolve(usually let it dissolve for at least 45 mins) im actually making the half-life shorter than those who swallow it instead. since some bupe is making it thru orally, tho not much at all.

btw i recommend spitting out, it eliminated any side effects from subs/bupe such as constipation, headache, etc... i got the idea from my first sub dr

also wouldnt 48 hours be the normal gap between sub doses when someone takes one day/night off to get high? example: monday 4 mg sub in morning. -> tuesday no sub/get high later in day -> Wednesday 4mg sub in morning. that would be 48 hours between sub doses that way.

BlueHues
23-09-2013, 19:41
^Are you still experiencing precipitated withdrawals. What I meant to say before; you usually have about 48 hours from the time you last took the Sub to take it again without getting sick. I usually took 4mgs or less, so I could pretty much get high on heroin 10-12 hours after my last dose, even immediately after if I did a little more. Also, you will experience Precipitated withdrawal, but only for an hour or so until the suboxone starts working. And yeah, if it's been a short enough time, you can take it without even having to wait to get sick. this might be one of those times where you should actually double up on the Suboxone dose.

I suppose it's possible that you're "different", but I still think what you were experiencing was just the Suboxone starting to work again. which has the same symptoms you just described.

Slum Survivor
23-09-2013, 19:48
i edited my post u may need to re-read it. funny how we are mentioning similar details... 4 mg sub dose. etc.

well i just tried taking 1.5 mg of sub over the last 45 minutes or so, and its not giving me PW's now. its like i said in my post... somehow i metabolize subs faster than i should, and metabolize heroin/morphine alot slower than i should, even tho i dont stay high any longer than the next person becaquse of it. its like it just sits in my system to say f-you.

btw i hope someone is watching... we about to hit a new megathread. (1000 posts)

also! BlueHues... u could still be right about my body just slowly getting used to the sub again. i mean i may have absorbed "X" amount out of the 4 mg i had in my mouth before i was able to spit it out and wash out/scrub out all of the sub from my tongue and mouth yesterday. that X amount may have been small enough not to give me a really hard bout of PW's but just enough so that today when i took my sub i already had a little bit left on my receptors from yesterday(and less dope on them) making it so i dont have issues with PW's

just thinking that may also be a possibility... i hope no one ever goes thru this like me!

EDIT: i highly doubt that the gap between sub doses has much to do with avoiding the PW's exmaple: i dont think i would have been better off taking my sub only a few hours after i shot the dope. which would have made it less than 48 hours since my last sub dose. if anything i bet i would have gotten PW's even worse. so i dont think the time your off the sub has much to do with it unless the dope is blocked by the sub in the first place(which in this case would mean u could take the sub again real soon, but if u waited long enough for enough of the sub to come off your receptors and be filled with the dope, then u would need to wait till u w/d to avoid PW's). hope i made sense there. i know what i mean to say, ha :)

Not Again
23-09-2013, 20:49
Ok since I'm getting ready to quit I've been binging a bit...

This week I'm going to switch to sub and quickly taper off. I only have 9 (8mg) strips.

Do I have to wait till I'm in w/d or is 24 hours long enough? I've been doing like 240-280 and each dose of 90 mg gets me high. So it only takes like 180 mg to keep me in good shape.

It seems to take me 30+ hours to feel like shit. I don't want to wait to that point. Will 24 hours be long enough so I do not eff my self up? And is 9 strips a fast enough taper? Will this work? Or will my w/d's at the end of the sub be worse?

I've only got 4 months using every day. Before that I was clean for a good 3-4 months.

Mr.Scagnattie
23-09-2013, 21:29
Ok since I'm getting ready to quit I've been binging a bit...

This week I'm going to switch to sub and quickly taper off. I only have 9 (8mg) strips.

Do I have to wait till I'm in w/d or is 24 hours long enough? I've been doing like 240-280 and each dose of 90 mg gets me high. So it only takes like 180 mg to keep me in good shape.

It seems to take me 30+ hours to feel like shit. I don't want to wait to that point. Will 24 hours be long enough so I do not eff my self up? And is 9 strips a fast enough taper? Will this work? Or will my w/d's at the end of the sub be worse?

I've only got 4 months using every day. Before that I was clean for a good 3-4 months.

It's always about your level of withdrawal when inducting onto suboxone. The time doesn't mean anything.. 24 hours is just the average amount of time it takes for most people to be in the level of withdrawal needed to take suboxone. For some people it happens sooner, for some later.

If you just wait 24 hours and think you're good and aren't in full withdrawal, you're in for a real hellish experience.

runescape
23-09-2013, 21:49
Co-pays are usually the same for different quantities of the same drug. The difference in co-pay is usually only brand name vs generic. Like all brand name drugs might be $15 with insurance and all generics $5. If you don't have insurance though, that's a way different story.

Oh, and no idea about the tracing.

Sorry, can you explain what Co-pay is? I don't know how that works. I have good insurance but I am not the one going to the pharmacy to get my script.

So you are saying that the total cost would be the same for thirty 8mg strips, sixty 8mg strips, or ninety 8mg strips? If so that is pretty awesome. Should I just tell my doctor I am taking more than what I really am so I can have some stockpiled for emergencies?

I may look into generic too, may ask my doctor about trying subutex.

EDIT: After a brief phone call w/ the doc he says suboxone is better than subutex and that he doesn't know if subutex will be covered by insurance or something... I'm going to address this more when I see him next.

crimsonjunk
23-09-2013, 23:39
Sorry, can you explain what Co-pay is? I don't know how that works. I have good insurance but I am not the one going to the pharmacy to get my script.

So you are saying that the total cost would be the same for thirty 8mg strips, sixty 8mg strips, or ninety 8mg strips? If so that is pretty awesome. Should I just tell my doctor I am taking more than what I really am so I can have some stockpiled for emergencies?

I may look into generic too, may ask my doctor about trying subutex.

EDIT: After a brief phone call w/ the doc he says suboxone is better than subutex and that he doesn't know if subutex will be covered by insurance or something... I'm going to address this more when I see him next.

copay is the money your insurance may or may not require you to pay at the time of service. Like mine is usually <NO PRICE DISCUSSION> to get a script filled but suboxone and amitiza are both <NO PRICE DISCUSSION>. It just depends on your insurance plan. Personally I always tried to get the most pills possible. But I am gonna be on maintenance over the long haul so you need to consider your goals.

Not Again
24-09-2013, 03:07
It's always about your level of withdrawal when inducting onto suboxone. The time doesn't mean anything.. 24 hours is just the average amount of time it takes for most people to be in the level of withdrawal needed to take suboxone. For some people it happens sooner, for some later.

If you just wait 24 hours and think you're good and aren't in full withdrawal, you're in for a real hellish experience.

So wait a little longer is what you're saying...

Mr.Scagnattie
24-09-2013, 03:34
So wait a little longer is what you're saying...

I'm saying wait until you are in moderate to severe withdrawal. Use the COWS scale for a guide. You know your own body, when you're really sick. That's when to take the suboxone, however long it takes.

tricomb
24-09-2013, 03:49
So wait a little longer is what you're saying...

As a general rule, I wouldn't ingest buprenorphine until the RLS is so bad and your having insane cravings.

tricomb
24-09-2013, 03:53
Sorry, can you explain what Co-pay is? I don't know how that works. I have good insurance but I am not the one going to the pharmacy to get my script.

So you are saying that the total cost would be the same for thirty 8mg strips, sixty 8mg strips, or ninety 8mg strips? If so that is pretty awesome. Should I just tell my doctor I am taking more than what I really am so I can have some stockpiled for emergencies?

I may look into generic too, may ask my doctor about trying subutex.

EDIT: After a brief phone call w/ the doc he says suboxone is better than subutex and that he doesn't know if subutex will be covered by insurance or something... I'm going to address this more when I see him next.

copay is the $ you have to pay that is not covered by your insurance. We do not allow price discussion here on BL, please review the OD guidelines, found in my signature.

Also, generic buprenorphine (NOT SUBOXONE) has been on the market since the 1980's and it should definitely be covered by insurance... Doctors have been brainwashed by R&B to try and push suboxone. There is no advantage to suboxone over generic buprenorphine tablets, which are indicated for chronic pain, but are often prescribed off-label for opioid replacement therapy.

runescape
24-09-2013, 20:13
copay is the $ you have to pay that is not covered by your insurance. We do not allow price discussion here on BL, please review the OD guidelines, found in my signature.

Also, generic buprenorphine (NOT SUBOXONE) has been on the market since the 1980's and it should definitely be covered by insurance... Doctors have been brainwashed by R&B to try and push suboxone. There is no advantage to suboxone over generic buprenorphine tablets, which are indicated for chronic pain, but are often prescribed off-label for opioid replacement therapy.

Wow that is super low if it is R&Bs goal to just get more money and convince doctors that there stuff is best. I am seeing my doctor this weekend and I really want to try subutex. Im not an IVer and naloxone makes me nauseous and gives me headaches when I swallow the strips going to see what he says.. If he says no theres probably no hope to argue with arrogance even though I know it it's safe to try it..

.:dopeAmeanFean:.
24-09-2013, 21:51
This is my first time posting so I apologies in advance if I am posting in the wrong place but I need some advice and have been searching all around for the answers and havent found anything solid...so here it goes. After about 2 months of consitant use intranasaly medium grade H. Consumption about .5g to 1g per day I have one 8mg strip of suboxone and about 9 50mg tramadols. Im trying to figure out a proper taper to experience as minimal w/d's as possible. Please help as soon as possible as I am just about out of H and have no time for w/d's....thanks guys!