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RowdyAggie
11-08-2013, 04:39
New to BL here, had a quick question. Had addiction problems the last 4-6 years, with last 3-4 years (off/on) with opiates.. Vicodin, Lortabs, Lorcets, Hydrocodones.. After a few self-detoxes, rehab detoxes, relapses, etc etc, you know the story, finally found a local Dr. to prescribe Siblingual Suboxone strips. Been working great past 7-8 months.. Prescribed 60 8mg/2mg strips a month (2 daily), but never took close to that amount. Maybe 8mg daily (quarter/half in morning and before bed, or as needed), now down to 8mg/per day, but found myself needing more, especially in mornings.. Got Dr. to prescribe 45strips/month instead of 30 strips (so basically 3 half-strips daily), but my question is.. The only reason I even take as much as I have been is because I feel leg/back pains, or soreness, or stiffness (which was the worst part of my opiates detox).. At the beginning of this sub treatment, one 1/2 of a strip would last me all day, or 12 hours for sure.. Now it's feeling that after a few hours, my body starts to ache or pain if I don't take another 1/4, 1/2 or even a full strip.. What is causing this, is it normal? Maybe all of it is not being absorbed? I don't know, just figured I'd ask..

RodRamsey
11-08-2013, 05:39
Some people describe a tolerance to subs over long period of high dosing. I never had any problem like this with the tablets. The films were 1/4 the strength of a normal 8x2mg tab for me. Maybe try the tabs before you end up increasing your dose to high levels. For example I took 2mg tablets for 2.5 years. The last half year I was forced to the films and my dose went up to 6-8 mg. Never took that much of the tabs. Few other people on here agree the films are extremely weak compared to the tablets.

Slum Survivor
11-08-2013, 07:06
i just started taking my sub films the past couple days. ive been feeling like they wear off quicker than i remember from past experiences. people say both ways about which one is stronger, films or tabs. im not so sure that would be the difference but who knows maybe.

ive been experiencing a bit of dysphoria this time around making the switch tho... it sucks. i remember enjoying bupe alot more.

RodRamsey
11-08-2013, 07:43
Ya I noticed the same, films wear off fast, come on weak, and even high doses don't work. I think they need a new method or production. 8mg film should be 8mg tablet equal. From my experience the films are far weaker. The only good part about it, the weakness will make tapering easy and quitting. Going from tabs to films I felt worse than when I stopped the films. They argue too many children are eating sub tablets because they look like candy. Thats bs because when you injest subs 95% of it is lost. Still never heard of actual case of child eating a sub tab. They too expensive, no parent leaving them wide open. The films have individual packaging which by itself costs more than a tablets. I think theres alot more to it. Like when your on subs too long they switch you to the films.

Zerrr
11-08-2013, 19:12
Do you guys sleep better on a higher dose or a lower dose? I am supposed to take 16mg a day but I rarely take 8 (usually 2-8mg)

Thing is, I cant sleep for more than an hour or 2 at a time. I remember a while ago when I would cycle dope and suboxone I would usually sleep almost 12 hours on the days I took sub. I was taking at least 4mg of sub then (the N8 subs), sometimes up to 16mg.(sublingual)

Also, does anyone take the 8mg generic roxane subutex? Some people have posted that these felt weaker then the Teva generics. They seem to have a lesser effect on me then the N8 suboxone pills.

RodRamsey
11-08-2013, 20:39
16mg is pretty high, some might say overkill. Your receptors are 99% full at 8-10mg of subs. Still not sure where these doctors are coming from who are not aware of that fact. I would lower the dose and stock up on the extras. Sleep with sub/benzo mix is real easy and deep. That mix itself is addictive and hard to break. Subs would make me sleepy at night time but its diff for everyone. Some people get energy off subs. Your sleep should improve in time.

Zerrr
11-08-2013, 21:07
My script is for 16mg, I rarely even take a full 8mg tho. I break the 8mg into 4 pieces and take it when needed (usually 12 hours apart, sometimes 6)

A asked because some people (who said they felt energetic at 4-8mg) said they got sleepy or even noded on doses of 16mg+.

I was thinking maybe I should take more and see if it put me to sleep but I don't want to waste any.

Benzos are the one drug that will get you an instant boot from the sub program I'm in. If you relapse on heroin or other drugs they will work with you, but not benzos.

RowdyAggie
11-08-2013, 22:08
You sound kinda like me.. At least a bit.. Was prescribed 16mg for the first 2 months, but never ended up taking more than 4-6mg a day (quarter or half in morning and evening).. Then I ran into problem of muscles aching and feeling "WD" type symptons in morning.. RLS, stiff or aching legs/back, and Dr. said that its great that I am taking less than prescribed, but that might be my problem.. Let the medicine do its job, take a half instead of a quarter of a strip.. Or, take 3/4 of a strip instead of a 1/2, etc.. I remember problems sleeping off and on, mainly from getting off of opiates and on Suboxone, etc, but it all passes with time.. I would keep taking Subs how you are, but try OTC Benadryl and Melatonin.. In morning, Subs make the aching/pain go away and give me energy, at night, seem to make me tired, if anything.. I think it's all in your mindset/environment.. I can't take benzos/smoke weed/other drugs like everyone suggests either, lol.. It wouldn't hurt to try a tad more Suboxone at night, but I think you're on the right track by taking it hoe you are. Try Melatonin (weak, natural, rehabs suggest it) and Benadryl worked wonders for me... Routine/schedule is the best thing for sleep to me.. Can't remember the last time I had trouble sleeping..

RodRamsey
11-08-2013, 23:00
Oh I got you, they strict about benzos. Every clinic run it different, its really interesting and frustrating sometimes. Melatonin doesn't put you out but will keep you sleeping if you can make it there. When I first started subs had trouble sleeping also. My doctor took piss test and I failed half of them but he never said a word. I don't think he even looked at results, moron dr. If you can do this without benzos thats awesome and going to make your life alot easier. Over months/years your system gets used to the subs and you will get real sleepy even nod sometimes. Just give it time like they saying. I was nervous about getting in trouble for taking xans with subs so would stop the xans 3-4 days before visit. They have short halflife and wash out pretty quick compared to clons or diaz. Def not recomending you do this but sleep is crutial. Benadryl works for me but only 2 hours of sleep max. My girl takes 2 bens and out all night lol, I wish. Heard about this one called 5 HTP thats supposed to help with sleep and its OTC but expensive. Smoking weed keeps me awake all night. Not sure how people pass out, must be some couch lock herb. Weed tripples blood preasure and a stimulant like coffe strength. Everyone have their own methods but it sucks not sleeping. I been awake for 7-8 days before after surgery. Reading thats really bad for you, not sure how I made it thru that one. The best is deep natural sleep like when you were young. Trying to get back to that but easier said than done.

Most clinics/doctors allow lunesta or ambien use with subs if you tell them haven't slept in days.

Slum Survivor
11-08-2013, 23:56
Do you guys sleep better on a higher dose or a lower dose? I am supposed to take 16mg a day but I rarely take 8 (usually 2-8mg)

Thing is, I cant sleep for more than an hour or 2 at a time. I remember a while ago when I would cycle dope and suboxone I would usually sleep almost 12 hours on the days I took sub. I was taking at least 4mg of sub then (the N8 subs), sometimes up to 16mg.(sublingual)

Also, does anyone take the 8mg generic roxane subutex? Some people have posted that these felt weaker then the Teva generics. They seem to have a lesser effect on me then the N8 suboxone pills.

just last night i couldnt sleep... i had this issue before with subs as well. same as you. used to get more sleep than usual when on subs. 12mg back then, 8 in the morning 4 after dinner. that was before i knew as much about bupe. i ended up having sleep issues that run, but it took a while. what would happen is that i couldnt goto bed early enough. i was staying up for like 18+ hours a day and had school. i couldnt EVER get to bed as early as i needed. my sub doctor told me to quit taking my 4 mg night time dose as late as i was

and yes i went from the N8 tabs to roxane subutex after my first month with that doctor. i didnt notice a big difference, but i was suspicious of them being slightly less potent.
now im prescribed 16mg a day, but i try and stay under 8mg. like yesterday i had about 6mg, but broken into seperate doses, the latest one taken around 7 pm. well i couldnt sleep for shit, i slept maybe 5 hours last night. so today i took 6mg all at once in the morning, hoping tonite ill sleep better. so how are u taking yours? all at once in the morning?

i see your post about taking as needed. that may be your problem, accroding to my old sub dr anyways. try taking it earlier and all at once for the day. see if that helps...

id stay away from benzo's if u can help it. i almost(or possibly did) give myself a bit of w/d from benzos recently. u think u cant sleep now? hah! benzo w/d is a bitch.

one good thing i use... a "supplement" beverage called "lean". there are imitations, such as one called "drank" the lean is the best/strongest tho. it has melatonin, valerian root, rose hips, acai berry extract, and 100% DV of 4 B vitamins. it helps me fall asleep when i need it, and honestly it works fairly good, no bad hangover or nothing.

google "lean slow motion potion"

i get hangovers from taking diphenhydramine(benadryl) so i try to stay away from that, but it works for some folks. and its cheap.

Zerrr
12-08-2013, 00:52
appreciate the responses guys, thanks.

I just started taking these last week. My first day I took 12mgs(sublingual) cause 8mgs didnt cure all the withdrawal symptoms. Since then I have been snortn 2-8mg, 1-3 times throughtout the day. Usually either 6am/12pm/8pm or 6am/6pm. It depends on how I am feeling. I take sub for depression/anxiety as well as WD's.

I was curious if it was too much sub causing the sleeping problems, or not enough sub, and the insomnia from withdrawal was still effecting me. Im basically sleeping the same way I would in withdrawal, although a little better. Outside of the sleep issue I feel pretty good, no other w/d symptoms really.

Im gonna try just dosing once in the morn from now on, see if that helps.

thanks again.

RowdyAggie
12-08-2013, 01:24
You're making me remember worse times, that's for sure.. I think when I first started taking Suboxone, I attributed my lack-of-sleep to the opiate W/Ds.. Almost the same sleep as in cold-turkey withdrawals, but felt great instead of shitty.. I think it lasted a little under 2 weeks.. Maybe 1 full week.. Just tried to stay busy with school, work, and not try to just lay there all day or nap.. Then, by 8:00 or 9:00, would literally pray that I would be able to sleep, and downed a cocktail of Benedryl, Melatonin, NyQuil, WHATEVER, and hope it would work.. One day it did, and knock on wood, but I haven't looked back since!! Hope you get to sleeping better.. No Sleep makes every negative-effect seem way worse, in my experience.

RodRamsey
12-08-2013, 05:58
Sleep changes your whole situation when wding or inducing subs. First the subs took away my horrible wds but sleep wasnt happening. It may take awhile but you'll get used to the subs and sleep will get better. The benzo/sub mix is amazing sleep but opens a whole new problem, now you addicted to the mix itself.

Zerrr
13-08-2013, 02:09
Do you think my Dr will test the actual levels of sub in my system? I take a UA but I am not sure how they test it.
Also, curious if alcohol would be included in the test?

Hope everyone is enjoying the ride on the sub-train..

Oxy8_8
13-08-2013, 02:18
Unless your Dr has a good reason to suspect that you are abusing your sub-scription *giggles at own pun* *sorry I'm a tad stoned* then no, he will not test the levels in your blood.
He will DEFINITELY not use blood to test for alcohol. If you are not supposed to be drinking he may give you a breathalyzer, though.
When I get my methadone and Valium they always breathalyze me despite the fact that I am 9 months sober (exactly 9 months sober today, actually) and don't even use mouthwash if it has alcohol in.

Oxy8_8
13-08-2013, 02:35
Everything I'm getting (hopefully) tomorrow :)))))

Zerrr
13-08-2013, 02:45
Unless your Dr has a good reason to suspect that you are abusing your sub-scription *giggles at own pun* *sorry I'm a tad stoned* then no, he will not test the levels in your blood.
He will DEFINITELY not use blood to test for alcohol. If you are not supposed to be drinking he may give you a breathalyzer, though.
When I get my methadone and Valium they always breathalyze me despite the fact that I am 9 months sober (exactly 9 months sober today, actually) and don't even use mouthwash if it has alcohol in.

I guess im reverse abusing my script. I was somewhat afraid that if my levels were not high enough he would lower my doses, which would suck. Im trying to store up on em.

Yea, Its a urine screen, not a blood test, I dont have to worry about breathalyzer. I didnt know if they did that etg screen or whatever it is..


Everything I'm getting (hopefully) tomorrow ))))

Im hopeful I can convince this doc that valium will really help me. Its difficult for a supposed 'drug addict' to get script for benzos IME.

Oxy8_8
13-08-2013, 03:15
I guess im reverse abusing my script. I was somewhat afraid that if my levels were not high enough he would lower my doses, which would suck. Im trying to store up on em.

Yea, Its a urine screen, not a blood test, I dont have to worry about breathalyzer. I didnt know if they did that etg screen or whatever it is..



Im hopeful I can convince this doc that valium will really help me. Its difficult for a supposed 'drug addict' to get script for benzos IME.

Urine tests will show up literally every drug, but not the type. For example "opiates" but not if it's heroin, fentanyl, oxy or "benzos" but not whether it's valium, etizolam or xanax (although the CAN find out they very rarely do).
Alcohol will not show up in a urine test :)
Subs will, but not the amount.

Slum Survivor
13-08-2013, 03:31
appreciate the responses guys, thanks.

I just started taking these last week. My first day I took 12mgs(sublingual) cause 8mgs didnt cure all the withdrawal symptoms. Since then I have been snortn 2-8mg, 1-3 times throughtout the day. Usually either 6am/12pm/8pm or 6am/6pm. It depends on how I am feeling. I take sub for depression/anxiety as well as WD's.

I was curious if it was too much sub causing the sleeping problems, or not enough sub, and the insomnia from withdrawal was still effecting me. Im basically sleeping the same way I would in withdrawal, although a little better. Outside of the sleep issue I feel pretty good, no other w/d symptoms really.

Im gonna try just dosing once in the morn from now on, see if that helps.

thanks again.
exactly, its what im doing as well. just last night i finally stuck to one dose in the morning. i got a little more sleep that way. ill see again tonite if it seems to help, as im doing the same.
you look up those "lean" things i mentioned?? i love em. valerian, melatonin, rose hips, acai, b vitamins all potentially helpful. just wish they werent as expensive as energy drinks. lol
and yeah i agree no sleep makes everything worse. makes all the random w/d symptoms seem to come out worse.
benzos help until you quit taking them... then u really cant sleep. ugh thats one of my issues right now as well really so i geuss im kinda makin it worse.

i hate drinking while on subs... headaches galore.

Zerrr
13-08-2013, 04:03
exactly, its what im doing as well. just last night i finally stuck to one dose in the morning. i got a little more sleep that way. ill see again tonite if it seems to help, as im doing the same.
you look up those "lean" things i mentioned?? i love em. valerian, melatonin, rose hips, acai, b vitamins all potentially helpful. just wish they werent as expensive as energy drinks. lol
and yeah i agree no sleep makes everything worse. makes all the random w/d symptoms seem to come out worse.
benzos help until you quit taking them... then u really cant sleep. ugh thats one of my issues right now as well really so i geuss im kinda makin it worse.

i hate drinking while on subs... headaches galore.

lol is it this drink that is like $50/case? If so, I can't afford that thing.

"LEAN Slow Motion Potion is the premium, most potent relaxation drink that causes sippas of all ages to chill out, especially during times of high stress. This special formulation was developed by a registered pharmacist that knows what the streets demand. LEAN is a safe combination of pharmaceutical grade herbs and syrup-based flavors that promotes a desired level of swagga to get you feelin' right any time day or night!"

I don't drink to get drunk, I have a few guiness/corona when I feel like it. Yet to get a headache but thanks for the hu.

RTrain
13-08-2013, 05:11
Urine tests will show up literally every drug, but not the type. For example "opiates" but not if it's heroin, fentanyl, oxy or "benzos" but not whether it's valium, etizolam or xanax (although the CAN find out they very rarely do).
Alcohol will not show up in a urine test :)
Subs will, but not the amount.

Umm this is not exactly true. First off, Fentanyl and oxycodone/oxymorphone are not opiates, they are opioids. To test for them in urine you have to do a specific test for opioids, a test which tests for their metabolites. So if they did a oxycodone specific test then they will know you did oxycodone. Same with fentanyl.

"Unless your Dr has a good reason to suspect that you are abusing your sub-scription *giggles at own pun* *sorry I'm a tad stoned* then no, he will not test the levels in your blood.
He will DEFINITELY not use blood to test for alcohol. If you are not supposed to be drinking he may give you a breathalyzer, though.
When I get my methadone and Valium they always breathalyze me despite the fact that I am 9 months sober (exactly 9 months sober today, actually) and don't even use mouthwash if it has alcohol in."

This is also not true. My doctor tested the levels every time for patient (at least he says he does), and many drs have started doing this. It is to make sure you are taking the prescribed dose and not diverting the medication for stock piling or selling.

Slum Survivor
13-08-2013, 05:35
lol at the product despcription for the lean stuff. i like it tho... EDIT: btw the hood store by me sells em for a couple bucks each and some change. thats how i can afford them, other wise i couldnt.

trust me id take a script for some benzos for sleep anyday of the week, that wouldnt cost me nuthin. just cant seem to squeeze them out of the dr quite yet. she is supposed to give me one this week, we shall see if she is full of it or not.

Zerrr
13-08-2013, 14:40
This is also not true. My doctor tested the levels every time for patient (at least he says he does), and many drs have started doing this. It is to make sure you are taking the prescribed dose and not diverting the medication for stock piling or selling.

I figured this was the case.. Ive read that the bioavailability is not a set amount, might differ from person to person, or may depend on how long you leave the sub under your tounge. Is this true?

I should be okay though. Even if these reasons are not acceptable I have a few other ideas. :\

EDIT:

Will my levels be right if I just take my prescribed dose the day before, or day of, my meeting with the doc? (seems reasonable enough)

thanks

RodRamsey
13-08-2013, 15:34
Your doctors actually look at the test results?? I only had one really look at it and he just wanted to confirm bup was in there. Not sure how they can check your levels thru a urine test but that would suck. Everyone has such different experience with sub doctors. They really have no clue what to do with patients and just trying to get paid.

Mr.Scagnattie
14-08-2013, 00:45
Lets try and limit the drug testing talk guys.

Thanks.

Zerrr
14-08-2013, 01:50
I apologize, I thought it was okay in that context and within the mega thread.

RodRamsey
14-08-2013, 14:31
Oh man I made a big mistake and looked at my xrays yesterday. These are from a trauma incident where I was shot in the thigh at close range and shattered my femur/hip/flexors. I had these pics for over 2 years and couldn't bring myself to look. Its a mess inside my leg. The first xray pre op is freakin insane lol. Somehow they piece it together with ti hardware and alot of it. After seeing the pics I want to go back on pain meds soo bad. Trying hard not to go thru this whole process again with high pain med tolerance then inevidibly ending back on subs. Its an every day struggle, maybe should put these xrays away but can't get that image out of my head now. Any doctor would look at them and throw meds at me.

Zerrr
15-08-2013, 21:52
Does anyone else get a different generic from time to time? I do not know much about scripts, luckily havent needed many. If I prefer a certain form of sub can I request that I get that one everytime?

I noticed there are these arrow 8 pills that are tiny. I guess the size makes me consider shooting em, which Ive always considered off-limits/not a good idea with the risks involved.

BlueHues
15-08-2013, 22:42
^Shooting subs is pretty pointless IMO unless you're desperate and need to stretch a small amount over a long period of time...Even then, not sure I'd wanna go through the trouble of doing it. I've shot Suboxone and Subutex and it never really did anything noticeable...Of course, I was either maintained on it or switching back and forth between heroin and bupe at the time...

If you weren't physically addicted or if you had a low tolerance to opioids/ates, IVing them might do a little more for you, but from everything I've heard, the only benefit of Iving them is the higher bioavailability, which is about 3x higher than using them sublingually, afaik.

I don't shoot them, and I've been Iving my drugs for a long time...I don't really even remember what snorting things is like, and the few times I have snorted things in the last 5 years, I couldn't stand the feeling of snorting powder into my nose, which is something I also used to love.

Zerrr
15-08-2013, 22:52
Yea, I have refused to shoot em myself, was just saying those particular pills looked enticing (just based on size I guess) There must be a lot less crap in them. Ive only shot a pill once in my life actually and that was like 4.5 years ago.


Oh..snorting the generic subutex isnt that bad, those arrow 8 ones might even taste alright.
100x better than the n8 subs thats for sure, i couldnt snort those.

Captain.Heroin
16-08-2013, 00:51
^Shooting subs is pretty pointless IMO unless you're desperate and need to stretch a small amount over a long period of time...

*raises hand*

BlueHues
16-08-2013, 01:31
^Yeah, I knew that was your thing!:D At the rate that my girlfriend is going through my script, I might be in the same boat in a few weeks!

Captain.Heroin
16-08-2013, 01:45
^Yeah, I knew that was your thing!:D At the rate that my girlfriend is going through my script, I might be in the same boat in a few weeks!

You know, I've met some people recently who are not quite sure why I'm using buprenorphine, so I have had to explain to them how I was addicted to heroin, etc., and some of them simply can't wrap their minds around the idea of what an opiate addiction is/is like/why people do it to themselves. These people normally have a different "thing", whether it be cannabis/its extracts, or drinking, or meth, whatever it may be, they haven't been introduced to opiate addiction and I surely am the one to warn them never to venture into that "mindspace" so to speak.

So I've come to the realization that I've done a superb job on distancing myself from heroin and heroin users. My last friend is making attempts at staying clean (they quit! I'm so proud of them!), and they weren't within walking distance of me anyways.

So this makes me think that this is my opporutnity to do it, to get off of Suboxone. I knew I was going to need some time on it, not sure how long, but if I had to guess, I'm thinking that now is the time to taper off.

I was using 250-320 mcg per shot (for another reason other than pain relief; hard to explain), and I instantly cut down to 107 mcg, as well as reducing the number of dosages. This was quite bizarre but... I didn't have major withdrawal symptoms. I might have slept in an extra day here or there, I might have been a bit fatigued, but it wasn't anything to me. Now I'm at 107mcg per dosage, trying to get down to 80 mcg, and it's once again proving a bit difficult. I'm not sure why. I think it has to do with knowing that the withdrawals are going to be coming full force if I discontinue entirely, it might have to do with not wanting to let go of the needle (which is hard for some of us to do, I know).. but I'm thinking it's the withdrawal phobia, not so much not wanting to let go of the needle. I can still IV/IM other drugs, I'm still going to be using IM cyanocobalamin, so I have this conscious knowledge that I can let go of the drug before I do the needle, but it's still like, hard for me to be accepting that now is the time to quit buprenorphine.

I've also tried to go back to IM buprenorphine, which works very well for me time to time. I just still IV it when I'm feeling the worst, and IM it when I'm feeling a longer duration without the quicker onset (especially the last dosage before sleep; helps so that I don't wake up in semi-WD's, just to use the bathroom, on an every-other hour basis).

I have plenty of everything else I should be doing/attending to/embracing in life, so this really is the best time to attempt a quit for me.

Any advice/tips from the people who have been on Suboxone for multiple years is appreciated. Any positive words from anyone is always welcome. <3

RodRamsey
16-08-2013, 20:58
I know what you mean about opiate ignorance/intolerance. Even doctors/pharmacies think your just another junkie using subs. No clue there are million diff scenarios that result in sub use. People like to bad mouth dope users while they taking speed or drinking everyday. Its one substance or another, why does dope have such a stigma attatched to it. I was on sub tabs for 4 years after 15 years of all opiate use, some legit injury some not. I love opiates shoot me lol. Recently I was forced on the films and they really sucked for me. I was sniffing tablets for years so that transition to films itself was tough. After few months I noticed the films were kind of laim and a waste of time, money. They made it alot easier to taper. I went to 0.5 mg per day for a week then jumpoff. It took a couple weeks but now feel way better and wds are gone. The horror stories of sub wds are exagerated but still exist if you jump to early. I tried this before on tablets and was unsuccessful. If you really want off for real switch to films. They are weak and harder to abuse. Shooting them is part of an old habbit, you need to take care of that before tapering. Easier said than done and I wish you all the best. If I can do it you can too. Still get cravings, its every day struggle but over time you will heal from inside out.

Fire&Water
16-08-2013, 22:42
I too noticed recently that if I take 1 mg Subutex (dissolved in vodka, q-tip cotton, sublingual) before bed time, I sleep so much better...
Wish I had some words of encouragement but I am pretty much in the same boat "w/ a single oar"

ellua
17-08-2013, 00:27
Since we're on the subject of tapering... I have a question I hope someone can help with.

I've been on subs for 6 years and I've finally decided to quit, for sure. I've been removed from people who use for 5 years and have had two kids in 2 years and am in a very different place in life than I was 6 years ago. I have two adorable reasons to get out of bed every day. I'm working full time but have decided I want to stay home with my kids if possible, which means minimizing extra expenses and meds are a huge one.

For the last 2 years I've been taking between 8 - 12mg/day, occasionally 16. I told my doc I want to go as slowly as possible to minimize discomfort. He estimated it would take around 10 months to do a super slow taper, which is fine. He also mentioned that because smaller doses have a stronger effect on the brain, I may want to consider just jumping off at 8mg. I understand that has to do with the less-is-more idea, but wondering how the W/D compares in terms of intensity & length of symptoms to going down to micro doses? Also if that's the case I could start now, since I only need 8mg most days. If I do that, would I take strictly 8mg and no more for a couple weeks, then start every other day for a couple weeks, then just stop?

Any experiences jumping off from 8mg after long-term use would be great!

Fire&Water
17-08-2013, 00:34
Sounds like another Dr. that gave up researching buprenorphine the day after he acquired his license...
sorry, doesnt sound like a good plan.

Edit: Try splitting your 8 mg dose into 4, twice daily, once you feel comfortable, it is pretty easy to go down to 4 mg's, thats when "tapering" comes into play, It is unlikely that the effects of 2mg's or less are going to be "stronger" given the amount you've been taking, it will just start throwing you into w/d's. Your receptors need to be replenished naturaly before 1-2 mg's feels "stronger"

You do not wanna jump off @ 8 mg's let alone 2-3...

Mr.Scagnattie
17-08-2013, 01:10
Since we're on the subject of tapering... I have a question I hope someone can help with.

I've been on subs for 6 years and I've finally decided to quit, for sure. I've been removed from people who use for 5 years and have had two kids in 2 years and am in a very different place in life than I was 6 years ago. I have two adorable reasons to get out of bed every day. I'm working full time but have decided I want to stay home with my kids if possible, which means minimizing extra expenses and meds are a huge one.

For the last 2 years I've been taking between 8 - 12mg/day, occasionally 16. I told my doc I want to go as slowly as possible to minimize discomfort. He estimated it would take around 10 months to do a super slow taper, which is fine. He also mentioned that because smaller doses have a stronger effect on the brain, I may want to consider just jumping off at 8mg. I understand that has to do with the less-is-more idea, but wondering how the W/D compares in terms of intensity & length of symptoms to going down to micro doses? Also if that's the case I could start now, since I only need 8mg most days. If I do that, would I take strictly 8mg and no more for a couple weeks, then start every other day for a couple weeks, then just stop?

Any experiences jumping off from 8mg after long-term use would be great!

10 months? That sounds crazy. Bupe isn't like methadone where you have to do an incredibly slow taper and every milligram matters.

The majority of people find virtually no difference once stabilized on bupe going from a dose of 8mg's + down to 4. If I were you, I'd try cutting your dose in half one day and see how you feel. You'll probably be surprised how easy it was on you.

The real problem with tapering off bupe comes from getting down past 4 and 2mg's.

RodRamsey
17-08-2013, 01:59
Ya I agree 8mg jump going to be bad news for you. 10months is a really long benzo type of taper. I went from 8mg to 0.5 in 3 weeks then 0.5 the last week and off. First week off you feel mild wds compared to real opiates. Get as low as possible and try skipping doses. Bup hangs around for 2 days on your receptors. 1-2 months is a slow taper. Jumping off to high will increase wds strenth and make them last longer. Try switching to films to really taper off. Those are easy to cutt down and make quitting alot easier.

BlueHues
17-08-2013, 02:27
Moron that I am, I was stabilized on 2mg of suboxone a day, but for some reason I started taking 2mg twice a day out of sheer boredom...then, this past week I've been taking 2 mg every 8-12 hours....

I'm the guy who's always preaching the "less is more" philosophy and I actually feel it more when I take only 2 mg a day! Just goes to show how when you wanna catch even a little buzz, you'll do things that you KNOW won't even work!

Fire&Water
17-08-2013, 02:33
That philosophy is beyond me...
though respect

BlueHues
17-08-2013, 02:39
^Which philosophy? Less is more?

Fire&Water
17-08-2013, 02:48
cuse'.."you KNOW wont even work"!

Mr.Scagnattie
17-08-2013, 05:29
^^

Drug addiction is filled with illogical ideas like that. It's not a rational disease. Ha

Zerrr
17-08-2013, 11:22
few things..

Anyone getting more pimples on their face since starting sub? Ive gone from basically zero pimples to having about 5, and they're painful.

Also very groggy in the morning until I take my dose.

Worse thing is Ive started craving coke again on occasion, I think my brain is trying to be resourceful since it knows heroin wont work. It aint fooling me tho :sus:

hope everyone is doing well, I havent used anything except sub for almost two weeks now.

jjdonkey
17-08-2013, 19:57
I've been on subxone for five years after battling a pretty big painkiller addiction. At my worst I was eating 75 mg fentanyl patches while taking 400mgs of oxy a day. My doctors ignored my request for back surgery, for anything else to help my degenerated discs and just kept throwing pills and pills and pills at me until one day they said "hey you're addicted to pills, I'm cutting you off". So I ended up in detox and was prescribed suboxone. The thing was that until I could get my back surgery I was still dealing with pretty shitty constant pain, so the suboxone was prescribed at a pretty high dosage and for years I was taking 24 mgs a day.

Now I"m taking 12 mgs a day (although I'll admit that I sometimes take more if I'm feeling terrible) and sometimes I feel like I'm right back to being addicted to meds but the way I look at it is that I screwed up my brain so badly with the painkillers that I don't think I'd ever get back to normal without suboxone. Some people have to take blood pressure meds their whole life, some people have to take insulin, I have to take suboxone. I do wish I could get by with nothing, to not rely on medication to get up in the morning and function...but I made my bed and now I have to lie in it.

jjdonkey
17-08-2013, 20:00
If I can do it you can too. Still get cravings, its every day struggle but over time you will heal from inside out.

This is my biggest struggle. Five years later I still get ridiculous cravings. I'll hear about someone getting prescribed painkillers and I still think "you lucky son of a bitch". I can still remember exactly the feeling of that first rush of euphoria and I still miss it. Five years later and I'm still waiting for the "high on life" portion of recovery.

Slum Survivor
17-08-2013, 21:52
man i had a ton of crap typed up and something happened... ugh.

ive always wondered about how far down u really need to taper to before jumping off... since everyone seems to be noticing the way bupe acts different in small doses all of a sudden.

do you go off at 2-4mg or more because of the "less is more"? or do you keep tapering down, going past 2mg, going into the microgram range?
ive done the whole .5mcg or less jump, and it certainly was more w/d than i expected. ive also jumped off of 100mcg or so of IV bupe, after tapering down slowly to get there. that was at least as bad if not worse than the sublingual w/d. im torn about IV bupe, about weighing the gains vs losses. im trying this time to avoid it, but if i were to no longer have access it would be hard not to. i dont envy those in that position and i hope to avoid it.


and at captain: have you considered that blocker shot once you choose to jump off of the bupe? just thought id bring it up, if your goal is to be totally opiate free. not sure if its good for everyone, i just know it helped a friend of mine for a while. i dont know a whole lot about it, including the name.

Salute my shorts
17-08-2013, 22:09
I'll hear about someone getting prescribed painkillers and I still think "you lucky son of a bitch". .
Lol, worded perfectly

Mr.Scagnattie
18-08-2013, 01:36
man i had a ton of crap typed up and something happened... ugh.

ive always wondered about how far down u really need to taper to before jumping off... since everyone seems to be noticing the way bupe acts different in small doses all of a sudden.

do you go off at 2-4mg or more because of the "less is more"? or do you keep tapering down, going past 2mg, going into the microgram range?
ive done the whole .5mcg or less jump, and it certainly was more w/d than i expected. ive also jumped off of 100mcg or so of IV bupe, after tapering down slowly to get there. that was at least as bad if not worse than the sublingual w/d. im torn about IV bupe, about weighing the gains vs losses. im trying this time to avoid it, but if i were to no longer have access it would be hard not to. i dont envy those in that position and i hope to avoid it.


and at captain: have you considered that blocker shot once you choose to jump off of the bupe? just thought id bring it up, if your goal is to be totally opiate free. not sure if its good for everyone, i just know it helped a friend of mine for a while. i dont know a whole lot about it, including the name.

Definitely do not jump off at 2-4mg's. It'll be hell.

The lower you can get down to, the easier the kick will be. Sub-milligram range is always best. .25-.5mg's. Easiest bupe kick I had though was when I weened down to literally .125mg's. There was a night in day difference in how severe the withdrawals were.