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Bupe Experiment on detoxxing from Suboxone.

inkpixie

Greenlighter
Joined
Jan 28, 2012
Messages
20
Hello All. Today is day one on my detox experiment from suboxone. My last dose was last night at around 7 pm. I am coming off of around 2 mg daily. It is too expensive without insurance. I will be using kratom, a bottle of liquid tylenol with codeine, imodium ad, fish oil and detox tea.
So far today I haven't really felt the withdrawal yet. I still have a long way to go before I will. I probably won't feel it until tomorrow or the next day due to subs long life span. I am feeling some fatigue but that is it. The only thing I have taken so far is 6 pills of imodium. I don't want to waste the other stuff. I will post later or tomorrow to let you know what is happening. Thank you for your support.
 
No. Nothing that great unfortunately. It is a "detox tea" by Yogi. It is formulated to clean out your liver and flush toxins from your body. I will also be using an herbal tea called Pau D' Arco. This does basically the same thing.
 
Well, it is coming up on 21 hours from my last dose and I am getting my first cold chills. I am going to take some cayenne pepper capsules for that.
 
Well, it is coming up on 21 hours from my last dose and I am getting my first cold chills. I am going to take some cayenne pepper capsules for that.

Fear and anticipation of withdrawals I feel create some of the worse symptoms - try to stay as busy as possible and keep your mind off the symptoms. Who knows, they might just never get worse! (they might though, but no reason to fear a probability, right?)
 
Thank you. I agree. Anyway, I woke up this morning, 36 hours from my last dose of sub, and I had the cold chills and classic withdrwal symptoms with some anxiety. I took 4 caps of cayenne pepper and broke out my kratom. I took 4 caps of a stronger vietnam strain of kratom and 2 caps of commercial grade Bali. About ten minutes later I could feel the heat in my belly from the cayenne and then about 5 minutes after that my stomach started churning and I puked. The cayenne burned like hell coming up but I didn't puke up a lot of the kratom from what I could tell. Now I can actually feel a slight euphoria from the kratom and I am having no withdrawal symptoms. I can actually function!! I have tried to get off of the sub before with just the commercial bali and I could feel no offects from it. This vietnam strain, however, is obviously much stronger as Arena Ethnobotanicals said it would be. It cost a lot more but it is definately worth it. Very good quality. So with all this being said, my reccommendation is to never take cayenne and Kratom together when you have withdrawal nausea. The cayenne is supposed to help with the cold chills but it is hell on your stomach!!
 
Hello All. Well, here it is 63 hours from my last dose of sub. Day 3 to be exact. So far the withdrawals are not that bad. Yesterday I took 24 caps of kratom. So far today I have taken 14. Either the kratom is staving off the WD or they just haven't hit me too hard yet. I am a bit low on energy and a little shaky but other than that it is manageable. I looked it up and learned that kratom binds more to a persons delta receptors than the mu. Sub binds to the mu receptors. Hopefully this means that I am not just prolonging my withdrawals by substituting something for the sub on the same receptors. I really hope this is the case anyway. If anyone has any experience with this, I would appreciate the input. Thanks!!
 
Well, from what I know, you will still have to experience withdrawals when you decide to discontinue the Kratom, but they should be much less intense than the buprenorphine, and not nearly as long lasting. The fact that Kratom attaches to the Mu receptor to any degree though would indicate (I would think) that it could cause dependency.

I imagine that the Kratom is helping your withdrawals, rather than the withdrawals just being mild. 2mg is a pretty high dose of suboxone to jump off of, and I know that when I was on that dose, I would begin to feel withdrawals after 24 hours (that being said, I do have a fast metabolism, but at the same time, once your on dosages of suboxone under 4mg, the rise and fall or buprenorphine in your system is more dramatic than at higher dosages due to the fact that you are maintaining at a dose below the ceiling).
 
Thank you for the info. I do appreciate it. Here it is day 4. I just woke up and the WD is pretty mild. I have definately been through worse. It is around 84 hours since my last dose of sub. I just popped 8 caps of my stronger kratom with 4 caps of imodium. I guess the kratom must be helping because I am still semi functional. Either that or the really bad WD just hasn't hit me yet. I have a slight burning of the skin, some fatigue and a little anxiety but as soon as the kratom kicks in this is usually gone. Maybe my metabolism is really slow. As far as I know it has always been fast though. I know one time that I went through benzo withdrawals (those were HELL) and they didn't hit me until around 4 or 5 days after my last dose. I guess I will just have to wait and see. Thank you again for the input. I am not sure I know very much about this "ceiling effect" issue and sub. I guess I will have to google it.
 
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Ok. So here it is about an hour since my kratom dose this morning and I am completely free of withdrawal symptoms. I had a little before I took my kratom. Yesterday was worse even with the kratom although it did help. Right now I feel virtually normal. I don't feel much off of the kratom but I don't feel any withdrawal either. What I am thinking is that when I or if I begin feeling the effects from the kratom that will mean that the bupe is totally out of my system or most of the way out. So far though, today is better than yesterday. I just hope it lasts.
 
I looked it up and learned that kratom binds more to a persons delta receptors than the mu. Sub binds to the mu receptors. Hopefully this means that I am not just prolonging my withdrawals by substituting something for the sub on the same receptors. I really hope this is the case anyway.

You looked this up where? (hopefully somewhere more reliable than kratom-seller websites trying to claim that kratom is not habit-forming)

Here are some sources:

We have found that mitragynine, a major Corynanthe type indole alkaloid of this plant [kratom], elicited potent analgesic activity mainly via mu-opioid receptors.[source]

The predominant alkaloid of kratom, mitragynine, binds mu- and kappa-opioid receptors, and has additional receptor affinities that might augment its effectiveness at mitigating opioid withdrawal. Kratom's clinical pharmacology is poorly understood.[source]

Mitragynine, the major alkaloid identified from Kratom, has been reported as a partial opioid agonist producing similar effects to morphine. An interesting minor alkaloid of Kratom, 7-hydroxymitragynine, has been reported to be more potent than morphine. Both Kratom alkaloids are reported to activate supraspinal mu- and delta- opioid receptors, explaining their use by chronic narcotics users to ameliorate opioid withdrawal symptoms.[source]

The present results suggest that mitragynine is capable of directly interacting with supraspinal mu- or delta- opioid receptor subtypes, and exhibits a suppressive action on the mechanical and thermal stimuli-induced nociceptive responses, and that the selectivity of mitragynine for the supraspinal and spinal opioid receptor subtypes differs from that of morphine in mice. Mitragynine may indirectly interact with supraspinal kappa-opioid receptors which are involved in modulation of the descending serotonergic system. It has been reported that the antinociception mediated by kappa-opioid receptor stimulation depends on a descending serotonergic system in mice.[source]

So basically, there haven't been that many in-depth studies and most of them are on the primary alkaloid in kratom and not the whole plant, and they have different results and problems, but I have found nothing to suggest that kratom is primarily a delta-receptor agonist, the sources I've seen all seem to agree that it is primarily a mu-opioid agonist. If you have a reliable source that states otherwise, please post a link though :)

Anyway, delta-receptor agonists are dependence-causing too.

I stick with my post in your other thread:

They will have slightly different binding profiles and therefore likely have incomplete cross-tolerance and cross-dependence, but even if there was some precise time limit [which there is not, it's dependent on so many factors] of developing dependance to kratom it's not like you can just take kratom for less than that time limit and then stop it and feel fine. The idea is to just use as little kratom as possible and taper off of it, just like you would if using a Suboxone taper to quit heroin. I would try to use only the bare minimum of kratom needed to make your Sub withdrawals bearable and try to gradually reduce your dose.

Here are some threads to check out:
The Kratom Thread (includes a guide to using kratom to get off buprenorphine)
Utilising Kratom for Opiate Withdrawal
 
for me suboxone was the hardest thing ive ever came off of. i would rather go through the harsher but shorter full agonist withdrawal. i was on 32mgs a day for over 5 years and finally tapered off myself. very slowly got myself down to 1mg before stopping. i took over a month before i started feeling better. it sucked and i will never EVER get back on a long half life opioid. it is worth it though. good luck!
 
i personally found that the detox from Suboxone was really very easy and pretty painless. I've come off of 95mg methadone cold turkey and a little suboxone was a piece of cake compared... but i'm sure you are experiencing some discomfort. Try Kratom or Loperamide. If you can't get that maybe some benzodiazepines if they are readily available to you.
 
Thank you for the responses. There is a lot of good info that everyone has offered. Below is the link that said that kratom primarily affects the delta receptors. Look under the section "Opiate Detox" in around the middle of the page and you will see what I read. I am not certain as to how reliable this particular website is but the info is there never the less. Either way I do agree that it will be essential for me to taper off of the kratom in order for me to avoid withdrawals from it. There is no way for this to be completely painless although I can atleast try to minimize the damage. So far I am doing better than I thought I would be but it isn't over yet. Tomorrow I plan on starting the kratom taper because I am sick of being on all of this stuff. I just want my freedom from this junk and I don't want to be bat shit crazy trying to get off of the kratom that I got on to avoid going bat shit crazy from getting off of the suboxone that I got on to avoid going bat shit crazy from getting off of the pills. PHEW, IT HAS TO END SOMEWHERE!! Anyway, I will keep everyone posted on how I am tomorrow and I guess this is going to turn into a thread about detoxing from the kratom too. Wow, the shit us dope fiends get ourselves into!! Why can't I just like football or something??!!

http://www.drugs-forum.com/forum/showwiki.php?title=Kratom
 
Good morning Everyone. Here it is, Day 5 with no sub. I woke up with a good bit of anxiety so the withdrawals are definitely still there. I popped around 5 grams of my kratom and hopefully this will knock the WD out. It has worked so far. Swimming, if you read this I want you to know that I really appreciate your post from earlier. I checked out "the kratom thread" and I liked what I have read so far. I am taking right at 20 grams of kratom daily right now broken up into 5 gram dosages. I am hoping to be able to decrease this amoumt as time goes by. I am wanting to get off of the kratom soon but the WD was too bad to decrease the dosage this morning. The most that I will take the kratom for is 2 weeks. I simply can not afford to take it longer than that. I have a small sliver of bupe left, around .50 mg or less but I am not going to take it unless I am in absolute HELL. So far I haven't made it there. Well, I think I can feel the kratom kicking in now so I need to get my butt out of the bed and fix my kids some breakfast. Later!!!
 
I would try to taper with the kratom that you have, because the bupe PAWS may last a lot longer than 2 weeks. The worst of it should probably be over by then though.

Best of luck!!!
 
Wow, the kratom has really hit me hard this morning. I feel like I popped 3 lortab. It feels almost as strong as the bupe that I am trying to get off of. I guess that means that my receptors are clearing. Yay!! My anxiety waas definitely worse this morning but now I feel great after taking a 5 gram dose of the kratom. I definitely reccommend this route for bupe WD. I just wonder how long these things are going to last and if I am going to feel like hell getting off of the kratom in a week or so. I surely hope not!!
 
^ Every time I went through withdrawals, it always seemed to be worse than the previous hundreds of times beforehand.
 
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