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British Man, 21, Faces Death Sentence In United Arab Emirates

SamhainGrim said:
Actually, while the Qu'ran in no way condemns slavery, it sets down strict conditions regulating it. Two of the principal conditions are that only prisoners of war and the children of those born into slavery can be taken into bondage. Therefore Islam has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

If you'd said 'ancient Arab culture' then perhaps you'd have a point. Islam only embraced the prevailing social order to safeguard its own development. It didn't establish slavery, it actually reduced it considerably.
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I am fully aware of the 'strict' regulations. The fact is that Mohammed himself kept slaves, so there has never been the huge anti-slavery movement in Islamic countries like what we saw in the West coming from the churches. What you're saying about Islam reducing slavery is bullshit. He took literally thousands of slaves whilst he expanded his empire in every direction. So, in fact, slavery expanded dramatically under Mohammed. Even if slavery did exist before Islam, it was certainly given a great big thumbs up by the unquestionable exhalted leader. Can you imagine if Jesus himself had kept slaves? We'd probably all have slaves today. Islam is also all gravy with less than consentual sex with slaves, so slaves are generally encouraged to have children and they are 'freed' i.e. chucked out on the streets to fend for themselves once they aren't as attractive as they once were. The best part? The slave owner gets extra bonus points in heaven for the manumission of the female slaves he only kept for rape purposes.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
I am fully aware of the 'strict' regulations.
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Then you're aware that the practices in Dubai flagrantly contravene them. Therefore they aren't in accordance with Islam, so to blame Islam is totally fallacious, to put it midly.

As for Christians and slavery, that's a whole other can of worms. There's not even an attempt to impose restrictions on slavery in the Christian scriptures, much less any outright condemnation. As for Jesus keeping slaves, there's no explicit reference to such (though church fathers such as St. Augustine were certainly in favour), but the churches were complicit in slavery for the best part of two millennia.
 
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SamhainGrim said:
Then you're aware that the practices in Dubai flagrantly contravene them. They aren't in accordance with Islam, so to blame Islam is totally fallacious.

As for Christians and slavery, that's a whole other can of worms. There's not even an attempt to impose restrictions on slavery in the Christian scripture.
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The Christian scripture didn't divinely ordain slavery though, did it? Therefore leaving the door open for us to outlaw it and say it was wrong without contradicting Jesus. The bible does tell Masters to treat their slaves well though. On the otherhand you cannot say slavery is wrong in Islam because that would be saying Mohammed was wrong... The practises in Dubai in some cases do contravene the Quaran, but the whole reason they are still happening is because of Islam - where there is slavery there will be abusers of the rules. O and btw the rules of Islam allow you to have sex with those who your right hand possesses, even if it establishes that you have to pay for their healthcare costs in return. Nice of it huh. This is the problem with Islam all the way through. Yes they moved Arab culture forward and progressed it slightly in a lot of ways, but it has totally frozen the Arabs in the Middle Ages. Unable to move on, they are stuck in the era Mohammed lived in.
 
Sorry I've not read the last page as I'm on my phone, but I've just read in the paper he sold it to an undercover, what an absolute dohnut. Dealing in that country is insanely stupid but with people you don't know? Asking for trouble really.
 
Fucking hell. This had to descend into an anti-Islam rant at some point I suppose, didn't it?

Neither Mohammed or Jesus kept slaves. Why? Because they weren't fucking real (& if a real person by the name of Mohammed or Jesus did happen to exist at that time & made the claims that their individual "Book of Pish" states then they were a fucking liar).
 
SamhainGrim said:
Then you're aware that the practices in Dubai flagrantly contravene them. They aren't in accordance with Islam, so to blame Islam is totally fallacious, to put it midly.

.
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I have to agree 100% Sam.
I have a friend that emigrated with her Mum N dAd back in the 80's .
Her father was in the Hotel biznis .
Dubai is full of contradictions as far as religion is concerned the biggest Church is the one of $$££.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
The Christian scripture didn't divinely ordain slavery though, did it?
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Nor does the Qu'ran.

Mr Smokes Blunts said:
The practises in Dubai in some cases do contravene the Quaran, but the whole reason they are still happening is because of Islam
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How so? I find that baffling.

What I think you're doing is conflating 'Islam' and certain deep-seated aspects of Arabic culture, which are pre-Islamic in origin, and which Islam had to embrace in order to protect its own existence. In a similar way, as it happens, to early Christianity and the concessions it made to Roman rule.
 
parttime crackhead said:
Fucking hell. This had to descend into an anti-Islam rant at some point I suppose, didn't it?

Neither Mohammed or Jesus kept slaves. Why? Because they weren't fucking real (& if a real person by the name of Mohammed or Jesus did happen to exist at that time & made the claims that their individual "Book of Pish" states then they were a fucking liar).
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You are a retard if you think Mohammed didn't exist. Not even slightly retarded, but full on dribbling all over yourself vegetable retarded.
 
SamhainGrim said:
Nor does the Qu'ran.



How so? I find that baffling.

What I think you're doing is conflating 'Islam' and certain deep-seated aspects of Arabic culture, which are pre-Islamic in origin.
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Islam has frozen it in time. Mohammed himself kept slaves, that's the point. You aren't going to get grass roots organisations of Muslims saying slavery is wrong when their leader did that very thing. The fact that the man Muslims name their sons after and seek to emulate as much as possible partook of slavery is directly linked to their reluctance to outlaw it. Still today almost all of the scholars say slavery is fine and Islamically OK. There hasn't been the abolitionist movement you can see in the West all the way back to the 1500s in the East. And if you look around the globe the only countries who still have any real remenants of slavery are Islamic.
 
Read the rest of my statement. I don't know if there was a cunt called Mohammed. I clarified it by saying that if he did exist & he did tell the lies that people believe then he is... a liar.
 
brimz said:
I have to agree 100% Sam.
I have a friend that emigrated with her Mum N dAd back in the 80's .
Her father was in the Hotel biznis .
Dubai is full of contradictions as far as religion is concerned the biggest Church is the one of $$££.
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This. Dubai is what happens when capitalism is allowed to run riot.

There's a cultural diversity between Islamic countries which suggests that the way the religion is practised reflects the native culture and not the obverse.
 
Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”
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burj_dubai_plane11-355x500.jpg



But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building.
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The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”
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funny-gif-troll-face-animation.gif

Problem?
 
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parttime crackhead said:
Read the rest of my statement. I don't know if there was a cunt called Mohammed. I clarified it by saying that if he did exist & he did tell the lies that people believe then he is... a liar.
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Yes but Mohammed did exist. As in the real leader of that religion. He may well be a liar. But Mohammed as a person and leader of Islam existed, and he did keep slaves. He might not have been a prophet, but he is treated as such.
 
Man that guy would be pissed if his defence lawyers went the same way as the conversation in this thread.
 
Mr Smokes Blunts. said:
Mohammed himself kept slaves, that's the point.
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Can you find any source which states that Jesus didn't? Or even an outright condemnation of slavery from Jesus? You can't.

Mohammed keeping slaves was culturally equivalent to somebody owning a Mondeo in this day and age. We may (rightly) find that repugnant now but slavery was just as commonplace in Christendom as it was in the Arabian peninsula. In fact, Islam imposed far more restrictions than were in place in Christian countries, where the majority of clerics supported the practice for centuries to come.

Slavery still exists throughout the non-Muslim world, don't kid yourself.
 
You're taking 'slaves' on a very literal level. It's not all dudes in loincloths hefting bits of pyramid. What about the hundreds of thousands of women who are unwilling participants in the sex trade? Aren't they slaves, living in fear of violence towards them or their families? What about matey with his campbed in the corner of a growhouse, coerced into living there by gangsters? What about dem cockle pickers? What about someone on an aeroplane this very minute with a gut full of latex and class A drugs? There are slaves everywhere. Yes, some of the people in roles I've described are probably paid, but a lot of them aren't. It's an international problem.
 
jancrow said:
You're taking 'slaves' on a very literal level. It's not all dudes in loincloths hefting bits of pyramid. What about the hundreds of thousands of women who are unwilling participants in the sex trade?
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Exactly. And this country is a major destination for sexual slaves. That's saying nothing of the thousands of Britons who look further afield for their sexual 'adventures'.
 
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