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gloomwave
25-05-2012, 00:00
Hey everyone, I apologize if this is a re-post, but it was part of my introduction post and I wanted to make an informative thread about the procedure and my personal uncommon experience, since I couldn't find much about it on here and it's increasing in popularity and safety. This thread is also for anyone curious about/considering undergoing/or that has underwent the procedure. It would be really great to hear any feedback and I'd be more than happy to answer any questions you may have. Please feel free to message me anytime.

Before I post my personal experience, I would really like to stress that the majority of the negative parts of my experience were/are highly irregular so please don't let this be a deterrent for anyone considering it, because it did for me what 7 plus trips to rehab and numerous home-brew detoxes never could due what this ultimately did in a fraction of the time. Also, please note that I'm not trying to "advertise" or push this on anyone, I just want to share my story, maybe hear some other personal experiences, answer any questions and hopefully help someone in the process of doing so.

I won't mention specifics as to where the particular address of the facility is, or the name of it via this thread, but if you are truly interested or want to research the facility on your own, send me a message and I can give you the information. It is a very low key, professional and small privately owned facility, with one highly trained doctor with over 15+ years of experience performing each procedure, along with a team of highly trained medical aids who specialize in and have worked for a long time, in this field. Lastly, I must stress again that my experience was extremely A-typical and I have personally seen/heard it work wonders on friends and other patients. Relapse rate is extremely low and they offer a wide range of aftercare, including naltrexone injections and unlimited follow up appointments. I found this particular facility very much suited to my needs, as they specialize in detox for long-term methadone and suboxone users as well. The doctor who performs the procedure is a really great, no-bullshit kind of guy and I really appreciated his honesty, never once feeling like I was being suckered in to the procedure as I have felt speaking with other facilities in the past whenever I researched them. This particular facility will literally not accept you unless you truly want to get clean and can prove this to the doctor beforehand. And on that note, here is my story.

On April 30th I underwent the infamous "anesthesia assisted rapid opiate detox" procedure, so here's a brief (or as brief as I can make it) story of the nightmare that was my detox. I went to a place in (New York City) and honestly my doctor is fantastic. He's been working in the field for 15+ years and really knows his shit. The actual procedure you don't feel what so ever, and it rounds out to around 9,800 U.S. dollars. But they have payment plans that are pretty affordable so don't let the price terrify you. Just think about how much your habit costs you every year along with the risks involved with drug abuse both physically and legally and the price for the procedure really doesn't seem like that much.

I did this as a last ditch effort, mind you. Apparently 7 trips to rehab weren't enough so I ended up in the methadone mill for about 5 years. I'm 23 now and have been using opiates intravenously since just shy of the age of 14. Growing up in a suburb of the city and playing in a band with guys 7+ years older than me afforded me the luxury of a full blown habit at around age 15. Yeah, not good and it only went downhill from there.

Anyway, when went for my consultation visit, I was on 220mg of methadone before the procedure(i had previously been on 300mgs at a different clinic i was discharged from. long story.) and also taking around 12mg of xanax with 4mg of klonopin daily. Now, I'm sure some of you are like "what the hell you'd die, this kid is a fucking liar" - if you are one of those people please don't even bother making any rude remarks because I personally know what I was on and that's all that matters to me, not to mention if anyone has the slightest knowledge of or has ever been on methadone maintenance with a hard habit prior/during methadone maintenance, you know that with a high tolerence, what I was taking was like a juice box and a handful of skittles.

Due to the length of use and amount of methadone I was on, My R.O.D doctor wasn't comfortable detoxing me directly off of the methadone because in ordinary methadone-taper style detoxification, even when detoxed slowly over the course of a year or simply quit cold turkey (the only reason you'd ever do this would probably be because you were in a jail that doesn't administer methadone) it can stay in your body/cause withdrawl to last anywhere up to months and in the cases of patients who have been on it for multiple decades and in extreme cases, sometimes years after use is stopped.

My R.O.D. doctor told me I'd need to stop methadone immediately and take 3-4 weeks of a different opiate supplement before the procedure. Three weeks later just prior to the detox procedure, I was taking, on any given day - dilaudid 16-24mg daily, morphine sulphate 200mg xr tablets, crushed up and de-waxed 800-1000mg daily, 90-120mg of 30mg roxycodone, smoking 3-4 200mg 72 hour fentanyl gel patches and shooting up good quality, china white heroin. This obviously more than supplemented my previous habit and in addition to my benzo habit, resulted in me being all sorts of fucked up.

Anyway, I went in on the 30th of April for the procedure. They didn't require me to come in for the procedure in active withdrawal or anything and I was able to get high while sitting in the waiting area by administering fentanyl gel, orally. After signing my last few release forms, They took me to the room I would be spending the night in, which had a beautiful walk-in shower(which sadly I was only able to use sitting on a handicapped bench hallucinating from post anesthesia and throwing up on myself) a bed for myself and one for my girlfriend, along with a hd tv and outside the room a fully stocked refrigerator with lots of food, ice-cream, sandwiches, yogurts, juices, a cappucino machine. I would stay there sober just for a vacation it was so nice haha. But yes there were Lot's of lovely things I couldn't manage to even think about eating without throwing up.

After my brief tour, they hooked me up to an IV, Loaded me up with clonidine for about 5 hours then took me to the procedure room. I don't really feel like explaining the exact method of detox, but it primarily involves flushing your body with a ton of naloxone and naltrexone whilst under anesthesia. I am and always have been, along with my father and grandfather, somehow naturally tolerant to anesthesia and have woken up unable to move yet feeling pain during surgeries before, so I was pretty freaked out. The procedure, normally takes about 3-4, or sometimes up to 5 hours with the minimal, being two hours. This was not the case for me.

I was under anesthesia for 11+ hours after they had to drastically increase my dose (thank god I didn't feel anything) but as a result, I woke up puking my brains out. I then proceeded to cough and vomit fluids i didn't even know my body could produce, along with black tar from my lungs and I proceeded to throw up literally until there was blood. Due to the fact I was a human beanbag chair, I also asphyxiated on my own vomit lord knows how many times so I came down with pneumonia right after.

I know they say don't eat for 12 hours and i hadn't had anything besides a sip of water to wash down my benzos before going in, for like 15 hrs. It's been 25 days and I'm slowly on the up and up. The biggest thing for me is I'm no longer psychologically craving opiates. The worst thing is restless leg syndrome. This is due to pockets of methadone still remaining in my body, slowly being released as well as withdrawal from my xanax taper. My doctor said he had never seen someone with a tolerence as high as mine, so I visit him frequently for clonidine and loperamide.

As a doctor, I really have a lot of respect for him because he is honest, blunt to the point, and he's available by phone literally 24/7 and really great about medications/proper dosing and just genuinely a kind person. I was laid up really badly after I got home and couldn't move around much or at all during the first week after the detox, and having run out of the envelopes of take-home medication he gave me, I was unable to get to the drug store to fill out my prescriptions. I called and told him this and right away, he physically went to the pharmacy, paid for out of pocket and over-nighted me the already filled scripts, never charging me.

I'm doing much better now and genuinely feel all the pain and discomfort is/was worth it. I'm still having extremely bad leg pain/RLS, but he says it's from the long term methadone use/abuse and xanax taper. Other than that, I quit LITERALLY everything, even cigarettes, except for the benzos, which I am tapering down from (currently at 4mgs of xanax) to help me sleep and deal with the restless leg syndrome. Seriously if you can put up with a few days of shitting your brains out and an upset stomach if you don't react well to anesthesia (worst case scenario), I would recommend it to anyone having a really hard time getting clean. Especially if your habit isn't enormous, but you're just not able to quit. Because if you have a moderate tolerance, it's really a walk in the park from what I've heard. And of the people I've talked to who have done it, it all worked out really well for them and hell, even in severe cases like mine I'd rather go through 3 weeks of discomfort than months of a slow and painful methadone taper, followed by months of discomfort afterwards. But anyway I'm just a rare case scenario in terms of the adverse effects post-op. The psychological effects have honestly been the toughest for me to deal with, mostly a lot of suppressed anger and sadness, but it gets better. The mood swings can be pretty crazy sometimes, but I'm hoping that the depression help forum here will help out a bit until my appointment with the therapist my R.O.D. doctor is setting me up with. Anyway, that's my horror story, though honestly it was really a blessing.

Please feel free to ask me any questions you might have, or share any similar or personal experiences, or share any general input.

Thanks for listening to my story.

Swimmingdancer
25-05-2012, 01:51
Thanks for sharing your story. But I'm wondering how this is better than going on a fast taper when you say you were throwing up blood, still experienced withdrawals and are only just starting to feel better a month later? Wouldn't you have had the same results with quickly tapering off methadone and using some non-opioids (clonidine, benzos, etc) to help with the withdrawal symptoms, or switching to a shorter-acting opioid and then quickly tapering off it?

Why do you think that your experience is unusual? Everyone I have ever talked to who has tried this rapid detox (which is a lot) has had experiences similar to your's, if not worse. They've all said that it was terrible and that they still had a lot of withdrawal symptoms. The only difference is that you seem happy with it, whereas everyone else I've heard from says it was an expensive and painful mistake. There have also been quite a few people who have died from rapid detox. Unfortunately a lot of clinics that perform this procedure tell people that they will just be unconscious for a few hours and wake up magically without withdrawal symptoms. At least it sounds like the clinic you went to was professional and not dishonest, but I am wondering how expensive it was and curious why you think it was worth it.

anthony1958
25-05-2012, 13:19
well now begins the hard part,staying clean,i was on methedone back in the 70's for a couple yrs and then got locked up,went from 70mg a day to nothing,it was a long time before i felt normal again,anyway i guess it's better to sleep through a detox if you can,i felt like i was on crank for a few weeks after kicking that stuff,your thread brought back lots of memories,i wish you the best,you are very young still so i hope you can stay off drugs,don't know how you feel about na and aa,they seems to work for lots of people,because as i said,the detox is usually the easiest part about staying clean,good luck

gloomwave
25-05-2012, 20:23
Thanks for sharing your story. But I'm wondering how this is better than going on a fast taper when you say you were throwing up blood, still experienced withdrawals and are only just starting to feel better a month later? Wouldn't you have had the same results with quickly tapering off methadone and using some non-opioids (clonidine, benzos, etc) to help with the withdrawal symptoms, or switching to a shorter-acting opioid and then quickly tapering off it?

Why do you think that your experience is unusual? Everyone I have ever talked to who has tried this rapid detox (which is a lot) has had experiences similar to your's, if not worse. They've all said that it was terrible and that they still had a lot of withdrawal symptoms. The only difference is that you seem happy with it, whereas everyone else I've heard from says it was an expensive and painful mistake. There have also been quite a few people who have died from rapid detox. Unfortunately a lot of clinics that perform this procedure tell people that they will just be unconscious for a few hours and wake up magically without withdrawal symptoms. At least it sounds like the clinic you went to was professional and not dishonest, but I am wondering how expensive it was and curious why you think it was worth it.

For me, I physically couldn't handle the tapers once I got about half way through. No matter what I did, I always sat around and daydreamed about shooting up and consuming every opiate/benzo i could get my hands on. I first shot up at age 13 and it was always my method of choice for any opiates/drugs since then. Doing the tapers, I would get half way through and realize i had no idea how to socialize or do anything besides sell/consume drugs and play music. on top of that, everything was a trigger for me and I've kind of been on my own since 13 which is when my parents split up. My Dad lives here but would only ever come home very late, violent and drunk then left for work at 3-4 a.m. every day, often still in the shape he was in when he came home. I didn't have a lot to motivate me, or much to do while staying away from "old friends" so I always ended up just sitting around, bored out of my mind until finally deciding to get high. I also experience a lot of chronic pain having had multiple knee surgeries, duel sciatic nerve damage and 4 herneated discs. I was well aware of the horror stories about ROD and after so many failed methadone, suboxone and various narcotic painkiller tapers, I just finally had enough and decided it was worth the risks. I made my final decision upon meeting my doctor who is a no bullshit straight to the point kind of guy and after speaking to a few friends who got off of habits similar to mine via the procedure and are doing fantastic now. Out of three people I know who underwent the exact same procedure at the same place, only one had a tough experience but that was just the to be expected body purging itself of every color in the rainbow. I'm still feeling the restless legs/insomnia but I actually just today can say I've officially ruled it out as my benzo taper, because I dropped very quickly to just barely a third of the dose I was taking pre-op and the rest was just the last little bit of methadone leaving my body. I personally feel I should have tapered on methadone a bit and then started the other opiates, but it's my own fault for wanting to get it done as soon as possible. I'm happy with it because I no longer have the psychological urge to get high, even being around it (and I know you're not supposed to) I just kind of looked at one of my favorite strands of heroin as "gross". Just smelling the bag physically made me ill and get creepy crawley feelings. That's a huge step for me, which is why I'm happy with it. I guess the experience does vary for everyone and people I know who have gone to other clinics have told me absolute horror stories, but having heard nothing but good from this place it was worth it to me to get the bulk of it done in one shot and then treat the remaining symptoms which really I really only try to take clonidine or xanax for if i absolutely can't handle it or need to get some sleep for work. It cost me a little over 9000$usd which i initially thought was total bullshit, but they have a huge range of mandatory aftercare, naltrexone injections etc available and my doctor hasn't charged me for anything i've done or for any meds/visits post-op. Also, factoring in the fact that I had a chance to get clean for less than I paid on a yearly basis to support my habit, it seemed worth a shot. I'm content with it, but I'm also ready to stop using so I have a feeling that factors into why I'm happy to deal with the discomfort. dope lost it's romance a long time ago for me, I just couldn't get over the methadone detox-via taper hump. The only time I did make it through it, I was back on the horse before the taper ended because I couldn't deal with the physical/psychological withdrawls. Simply put, nothing else was working. And I'm so far, so good with this. And based on this particular clinic, i've heard nothing but good results (nothing like the shit i went through) so i figured I'd at least share my story.

gloomwave
25-05-2012, 20:50
thanks, i appreciate the kind wishes. I'm ok with NA and AA but kind of picky about where I go to meetings if I ever do. I used to go to one for artists/musicians in NYC so I'm trying to find one like that again. I'm doing all of this out of my own free will but even that can break with the wrong scenario at the wrong time so I'm definitely going to try something.

Tommyboy
02-03-2013, 00:51
We have several threads on the topic if you do a search.

I'm going to move this to Other Drugs where it may be merged.

Homeless --> OD

Dagda Mochta
02-03-2013, 01:29
I've read a bunch on this, and I'm confused. I'm under the impression that when constantly under the effects of opioids, your body stops creating it's own endorphins, and that the withdrawal syndrome is a result of the lack of those endorphins. To me, detoxing with opioid antagonists seems like it would accomplish nothing other than immediately inducing the withdrawal while having absolutely no effect on the standard withdrawal period during which your body begins to replenish it's endorphins.

Is this wrong? I really hope so, because otherwise I feel this "procedure" is a total waste of money and basically a scam.

Can anyone better explain the dynamics of this to me?

Mass08
02-03-2013, 03:24
I've never heard a positive experience from ROD. Your miserable experience is the norm

trippytrojan
02-03-2013, 05:17
I've read a bunch on this, and I'm confused. I'm under the impression that when constantly under the effects of opioids, your body stops creating it's own endorphins, and that the withdrawal syndrome is a result of the lack of those endorphins. To me, detoxing with opioid antagonists seems like it would accomplish nothing other than immediately inducing the withdrawal while having absolutely no effect on the standard withdrawal period during which your body begins to replenish it's endorphins.

Is this wrong? I really hope so, because otherwise I feel this "procedure" is a total waste of money and basically a scam.

Can anyone better explain the dynamics of this to me?

Opioid withdrawal has little to do with endorphins. Detoxing with opioid antagonists will definitely quicken the acute withdrawal process because it puts you into the peak of your withdrawals almost immediately, where as it normally would take a couple days for short acting opiates (and a few days to weeks for methadone) to completely leave your system. However, the problem with such a quick detox is the possibility for harsher/longer lasting post acute withdrawal syndrome (what you're going through now). Granted, I don't know anything about "pockets of methadone" somehow existing in your body and if your doctor said it, I guess it could be true, but I'm pretty sure you're just experiencing the residual effects of withdrawals known as PAWS, which will be worse and longer lasting with methadone than pretty much any other opioid.

Edit: and yes, your experience has been the norm from what I have seen as well.

Dagda Mochta
02-03-2013, 06:36
However, the problem with such a quick detox is the possibility for harsher/longer lasting post acute withdrawal syndrome
I was thinking that too.

But if the withdrawal has little to do with endorphins, what else is involved? Cuz I thought thats what it was for the longest.

Swimmingdancer
02-03-2013, 06:37
I've read a bunch on this, and I'm confused. I'm under the impression that when constantly under the effects of opioids, your body stops creating it's own endorphins, and that the withdrawal syndrome is a result of the lack of those endorphins. To me, detoxing with opioid antagonists seems like it would accomplish nothing other than immediately inducing the withdrawal while having absolutely no effect on the standard withdrawal period during which your body begins to replenish it's endorphins.

Is this wrong? I really hope so, because otherwise I feel this "procedure" is a total waste of money and basically a scam.

Can anyone better explain the dynamics of this to me?


Opioid withdrawal has little to do with endorphins.

That's not quite true. The effects of opioid dependence on endorphin production depends on a few factors. Generally short-acting opioids, like heroin, where you are in a chronic state of high/sick/high/sick cause the body to decrease endorphin production. But some research has suggested that this might not be the case for people who take sufficient doses of long-acting opioids that keep them from experiencing any breakthrough withdrawal. A bigger factor is changes in how endorphins (the body's natural opioids) affect you: changes to opioid receptors like decreased sensitivity and changes in numbers of receptors, and probably some metabolic changes as well. So even if you did have a "normal" amount of endorphins they are not going to have a normal effect on you.

As for rapid detox, Dagda Mochta, you are correct in that all it does is bring on peak withdrawals faster by precipitating withdrawal symptoms by using antagonists to rip the opioids off your receptors and medicating you during that process, so it basically takes off the first few days of withdrawal (for most opioids, perhaps a bit longer for methadone). It does nothing to help with any remaining acute withdrawal, let along post-acute withdrawal. It is particularly unsuited for drugs with long-lasting withdrawals like methadone. I have heard all sorts of horror stories about rapid detox, including people dying, and only one or 2 positive accounts. I do not agree that the negetaive aspects of the OP's story are "highly irregular", it sounds par for the course for me, in fact their experience was much better than the vast majority of others I have been told/read of.


This thread should probably be merged with the other identical thread by the OP.

Dagda Mochta
02-03-2013, 06:45
Thanks for the info swimming :) I guess I should read up more on opioid withdrawals. Seems like it's more complicated than what I've been lead to believe.

BlueHues
02-03-2013, 06:58
If you're still all fucked up 3 weeks later, 9800 bucks seems hardly worth it, TBH.....doesnt sound much different than any other detox.....maybe loading up on all that shit before you went in didn't help either...

Druidus
02-03-2013, 12:58
You'd have been better off, IMO, simply tapering yourself (though I hear you when you say you've tried and failed repeatedly), paying the ten grand to take a trip to Africa, where you could have a Bwiti shaman give you the complete ibogaine experience. It'd probably work better, feel more enjoyable, and have a lesser probability of relapse (from what I've read).

Rapid detox always sounds very unpleasant, and it is.

I guess in the OP's case it may have been the right course of action. If you have that high of a tolerance, and already compulsively seek out and use opiates far too much or while tapering, then this procedure might be the only thing that really gives you a shot at getting off. But I wouldn't think of using this method myself, not unless I was incredibly addicted and had a tolerance that would blow my max tolerance from my hydromorphone days out of the water. And I had a big tolerance.

I think it's really only a logical choice if you've got that kind of addiction, and tapering otherwise has simply failed to work and/or you end up relapsing rapidly. It becomes an option then, even if a last-ditch one.

anxiousmom73
13-09-2013, 02:08
Hi

I read your post regarding your rapid detox in New York....my son is on Methadone and is desperate to get off...tried many times but just did not work...Methadone is a hard drug to get off of..He is really interested in the Rapid Detox Method. We are from Canada and here the Rapid Detox Method is not available...we have found a few in Michigan and LA but would prefer something closer...we were trying to find one in New York so we can drive down but cannot seem to find one. I read your post and would be really interested in your doctor...could you please give us the contact information so that we may contact him and make arrangements for treatment.

Thanks

rhun
13-09-2013, 16:40
Anxiousmom73, as several people who have replied to this thread can attest... rapid detox does not have a good track record as a treatment for opiate addiction. And if your son is on methadone the procedure could actually be dangerous and even potentially lethal.

I'm currently almost at the end of my methadone taper. The clinic reduces my dose by 1mg every 4 days. My dad is also tapering his methadone dose but because he's on a much higher dose (257mg) and extremely opiate tolerant, he's going down 1mg a week. My original dose was just under 100mg and I've been reduced 1mg every 4 days to my current dose... which is 10mg. I was supposed to slow down the taper to 1mg a week when I got down to 20mg but I haven't needed to... The withdrawal symptoms have been minimal.

Having the clinic reduce my dose automatically for me has allowed me to taper without having to think about it... they don't tell me my dose unless I ask. A big part of the methadone taper process is mental, being able to just not think about it really helped with the mental aspects of tapering. It IS possible to do a successful methadone taper.. but it needs to be down slowly and counseling on top of staying busy and keeping your mind occupied is essential. Methadone buys an addict time to work on the issues that lead to their addiction.

If your son tapers to a low dose but can't handle quitting cold turkey at that point he would have the option of switching to low dose buprenorphine, another maintenance opiate used for treating addiction. However it's a partial agonist compared to methadone, which is a full agonist. My dad's experience with bupe was that it prevented any physical withdrawal symptoms or discomfort, helped with opiate cravings, and prevented him from relapsing (at the correct dosage, buprenorphine prevents any other opiates from working due to it's high affinity for opiate receptors). But it doesn't have the opiate feel of a full agonist opiate, you just feel "normal" not high.

After tapering to 0 from either buprenorphine or methadone, a new version of naltrexone is now available as a monthly shot called Vivitrol. Basically, if your son relapses it works like buprenorphine in that it will keep the opiates from working thus making relapse pointless. However, Vivitrol is NOT an opiate and will not help with WD symptoms or opiate cravings. So it's very important that your son complete a successful taper off of opiates first. Vivitrol is just another version of naltrexone and is by no means a wonder drug but once the taper is complete it could buy your son more time sober... And the more sober time you put in the smaller the chance of relapse. I would look into any side effects and weigh the gains with any potential risks or downsides.

But NONE of this will work if your son doesn't want to quit. Forcing him to taper or detox will not help him if that's not what he wants. You could give your son Vivitrol shots monthly for years but if he doesn't want to be sober the second you stop he relapse. That's why it's really important that he not only goes through counseling but that you guys are on the same team... and that he feels you're on his side versus forcing him to quit. How does your son feel about everything? Does he want to get off methadone?

Another option for your son once he's tapered down to a low dose of methadone or buprenorphine is Ibogaine. It's illegal in the US, not sure about Canada. But people here in the US are going to other countries to do Ibogaine treatment. The treatment results are pretty amazing.. my dad has done a lot of research into it and fully intends to do it when he tapers down low enough. But you HAVE to get down below 20mg and then switch to a shorter acting opiate from what I'm told or it won't work. Ibogaine is a plant that produces hallucenogenic effects when taken and over the period of the trip actually reverses opiate dependence. Because methadone is so long lasting the duration of the trip isn't long enough to reverse methadone dependence though some have had success with redosing several times. But I suggest you do your own research.. and if it's something you are interested in, make sure and choose a reputable doctor and treatment facility. I've heard some horror stories of people going to Mexico where it's legal and paying a lot of money only to be left alone tripping on Ibogaine in some seedy hotel.

Sorry to go off topic, just really felt like this question needed to be addressed... a rapid detox is a nightmare scenario for someone on methadone. If you have any questions you can post here or I can PM you my email. My dad and I both have experience with methadone and my dad is the most educated person in regards to opiate addiction treatment I know, hands down. Sadly, he knows more than most doctors out there. It's pretty amazing the lack of knowledge and understanding there is when it comes to opiate treatment and maintenance medication.

ETA: Just wanted to also say that there is no "quick fix" for opiate addiction, which I'm sure is why the rapid detox seems so attractive.

Mr.Scagnattie
13-09-2013, 19:26
They make this sound like a miracle cure but really, most of the reports I've heard are horrible. Deaths from complications after the procedure, people waking up and still being in withdrawal only to be simply sent home, poor aftercare, etc.

There is no magic "quick fix" for opiate addiction, as much as we all want it.

With how expensive a rapid detox is... the reports just do not justify it.

DexterMeth
13-09-2013, 19:31
^There's ibogaine.

pinpoint
13-09-2013, 19:37
There is no magic "quick fix" for opiate addiction, as much as we all want it.

Exactly.

If opiate addiction was purely a physical dependence this treatment would work. Addiction goes much, much deeper than the physical symptoms thus rapid detox is almost entirely useless if not downright dangerous.

Mr.Scagnattie
13-09-2013, 20:38
^There's ibogaine.

I've heard a lot of negatives about that as well. Reports of repeated relapse after treatment, withdrawals continuing after it wares off, etc.

Like I said.. no quick fix.



Exactly.

If opiate addiction was purely a physical dependence this treatment would work.

Not even. I've read many reports of people waking up and still being in brutal withdrawal. The treatment is not meant to combat anything regarding mental addiction.. it's claim is to be able to fully detox somebody off of opiates by the time they wake up and it doesn't work a lot of the time.

DexterMeth
13-09-2013, 21:01
WDs continuing after it wears off? Interesting. I'll definitely read into it more.

rhun
14-09-2013, 01:05
There is no magic "quick fix" for opiate addiction, as much as we all want it.

Lol fixed the typo from *not "quick fix" to *no "quick fix" but I pretty much said the exact thing right above your post. Weird. :p

Tommyboy
14-09-2013, 02:29
WDs continuing after it wears off? Interesting. I'll definitely read into it more.

Yea it's like when a person that's overdosing gets hit with a shot with narcan they will go through precipitated withdrawals right away, but will still feel like shit for a few days after it.

mrflowers00
14-09-2013, 02:40
sounds like i'd rather taper off the only other way i would want to stop would be in a hospital put under throughout the wds

Tommyboy
14-09-2013, 02:46
sounds like i'd rather taper off the only other way i would want to stop would be in a hospital put under throughout the wds

That's what rapid detox is going for, but unfortunately you are only under for a few hours so then you're stuck dealing with a few more days of acute withdrawal (I would say the rapid detox cuts 2 days off of withdrawal) and then of course the PAWS.

DexterMeth
14-09-2013, 03:09
Yea it's like when a person that's overdosing gets hit with a shot with narcan they will go through precipitated withdrawals right away, but will still feel like shit for a few days after it.
That's the first thing that came to mind actually, as I've been there a couple times. Ibogaine already seems too dangerous to try imo. I dunno... But if the actual "physical reset" is that hit and miss with it, no thank you.

rhun
14-09-2013, 10:18
My dad really wants to do Ibogaine if he can taper off his methadone so he's done a lot of research on it.
In some of the cases where Ibogaine did not remove all WD symptoms or the patient relapsed it was because they were on a long acting maintenance opioid like bupe or methadone. Because of the duration of these opioids one dose of Ibogaine is not enough to remove opioid dependence. Many patients have had luck tapering their doses then switching to a shorter acting opiate like morphine a few weeks before going through Ibogaine treatment. Which makes sense to me. But other Ibogaine treatment facilities don't taper the methadone or switch to the short acting opiate... they just keep redosing the Ibogaine over the course of several days (I think in one case it took 2 weeks). This doesn't seem safe to me at all and I'd imagine there would be a lot of discomfort. My dad spoke to many different doctors and facilities and there was a lot of differing opinions in regards to treating methadone patients. Some doctors won't treat patients on methadone at all. Others work with doctors in California to get patients prescribed the opiates they need so they can stop taking methadone without extreme WD in preparation for Ibogaine.

Also, in some incidences Ibogaine is presented as a magical cure-all... and while I know it isn't just used for opiate dependence, opiates are the only physical dependence that it works on and some people have been mislead to believe it will fix any problem. So patients physically dependent on benzos for example have been treated with Ibogaine by either unreputable or uneducated doctors... and suffer severe WD symptoms like seizures as a result. I think there was even some deaths... but don't quote me on that one, I'm not positive and I'm too sleep deficient to be bothered to back that up with sources right now.

Mr.Scagnattie
14-09-2013, 20:02
I'd sign up for a detox that put you under for like a week.. an actual real amount of time to get your body back to normal. But a few hours? Pointless, even with the flush of antagonistic drugs into your system.

Tommyboy
14-09-2013, 20:13
I accidentally took naltrexone too soon after my last dose of oxycodone once (they actually say to wait 10 days btw) and it put me in precipitated withdrawals. They weren't 'violent' since I really didn't have a bad habit and it had been 5 days since my last use, but I can say that I still felt withdrawals for 3-4 days after it, just as I would if I was in regular withdrawal. Once of the weird things about it was that I kept on having to fully stretch out my body, and that was the only time I could feel relief. It took me 3 days to be able to fall asleep, which I was pissed about since I was already through withdrawal when I took the naltrexone.

It just started at the peak of withdrawals a few hours after I took the pill, and since I still felt them for a few days after that all it did was cut off the 1-2 days in which it would take for my withdrawals to peak I guess, although I was already through withdrawal when I took the pill. I know that it wasn't the same as rapid detox since I wasn't on all those meds or put under, but it was the same premise.

BlueHues
15-09-2013, 04:12
^Well with narcan shots, they only last for an hour or so blocking the receptors, but the drug is still in your blood stream and as soon as it wears off the person will start feeling the heroin again if they used enough.

The rapid detox thing usually seems to be done by shady doctors looking to cash in. They usually cost 7-12k, you still feel like shit afterwards and it really doesn't do anything for your cravings. A lot of the time they require or strongly encourage you to have a naltrexone implant put in all at the same time. I've heard nothing but horror stories but I've never actually met anyone directly that's gone through it....

Hollys123
29-10-2013, 19:40
I did the Waismann method and was in pain for 2 1/2 weeks. I could barely eat n when I did I felt like the worst stomach pains ever n after the procedure for 3 days after I could barely move. Waste of 40 grand.

Mr.Scagnattie
30-10-2013, 00:18
40 grand? That's ridiculous.